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WSO and other report sellers please note

by timpears
35 replies
I just opened a report I got a few days ago and it has to be in ten point type. Give me a break folks. Some of us don't have the best eyesight and this is real hard to read.

I can make it bigger of course, but to get it to a point were it is easy to read, I have to scroll back and forth for each line and that gets to be a hassle.

So do me, and I am sure others, a favor and if you are going to distribute a report of some kind, make the font size a reasonable size for us older and eyesight challenged folks to read.
#note #report #sellers #wso
  • Profile picture of the author jamesrich1
    I hear you Tim. You can copy all of the text and pics and drop it in Open Office writer and just increase the text size.
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  • Profile picture of the author Reese Richards
    Good point Tim. Although it can go the other way as well. I've read some reports with 16 or even 18pt font!

    I personally like to go with 14pt but I think anything between 12 and 14 is about right.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    Originally Posted by timpears View Post

    Give me a break folks. Some of us don't have the best eyesight and this is real hard to read.
    I can tell by your picture, Tim

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    • Profile picture of the author timpears
      Originally Posted by Reese Richards View Post

      I personally like to go with 14pt but I think anything between 12 and 14 is about right.
      I like 14pt best I think. Not too big so the writer is just trying to make the report look longer. But big enough that I can see it pretty well.

      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      I can tell by your picture, Tim

      My wife took that picture of me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    18 point Times New Roman is the standard.

    It's not only for people with poor eyesight but also those reading the eBook on a netbook or tablet.

    Its easy to make the text smaller as you can just zoom out. Making it bigger is either a huge hassle (copy paste into something else) or leaves you needing to scroll left and right. And that is a recipe for irritation!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
      Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

      18 point Times New Roman is the standard.

      It's not only for people with poor eyesight but also those reading the eBook on a netbook or tablet.

      Its easy to make the text smaller as you can just zoom out. Making it bigger is either a huge hassle (copy paste into something else) or leaves you needing to scroll left and right. And that is a recipe for irritation!
      I think 18 point is too big and Times New Roman doesn't work well in most PDFs but that's just my opinion.

      Mark
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      • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
        Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

        I think 18 point is too big and Times New Roman doesn't work well in most PDFs but that's just my opinion.

        Mark
        You can always zoom out but you can't zoom in, without losing the sides of the page.

        As for printing. On my last eBook I went for a printer version and a normal version, just so it would be optimal for both purposes.

        It may be inconvenient for you in 18 Point Times New Roman but just imagine the people on netbooks refunding because they couldn't squint there way through your product.

        Regards,
        Colin Palfrey
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        • Profile picture of the author sal64
          Great suggestion Tim.

          I'm sure it will benefit many of us on here.

          Or should that be...

          G
          RE
          ATS
          UGGE
          STION
          TIMPEARS
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
            10pt in just about any font is way too small. 12pt is reasonable, but 14pt is optimal for just about anybody.

            Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

            18 point Times New Roman is the standard.
            I'd like to know your source.
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            • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
              Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

              10pt in just about any font is way too small. 12pt is reasonable, but 14pt is optimal for just about anybody.

              I'd like to know your source.
              Hi Mike,

              I've written a few thousand eBooks (literally) and talked to hundreds of other writers about this issue. At this stage, I am a source lol. I actually got a heads-up about the font issue from writers many years ago when I was starting out, so it isn't just my opinion.

              The main purpose of any book must be the easy transmission of information from the author to the reader. As soon as you start chopping people out of your potential readers list because they don't fit your idea of what a reader should be, you're losing sales.

              Why would you want to deliberately write a book that can't be read on a tablet, netbook or mobile phone?

              Hope this explains it.

              Regards,
              Colin Palfrey
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
                Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

                Hi Mike,

                I've written a few thousand eBooks (literally) and talked to hundreds of other writers about this issue. At this stage, I am a source lol. I actually got a heads-up about the font issue from writers many years ago when I was starting out, so it isn't just my opinion.

                The main purpose of any book must be the easy transmission of information from the author to the reader. As soon as you start chopping people out of your potential readers list because they don't fit your idea of what a reader should be, you're losing sales.

                Why would you want to deliberately write a book that can't be read on a tablet, netbook or mobile phone?

                Hope this explains it.

                Regards,
                Colin Palfrey
                I'm not disputing any of those facts. I produce and sell ebooks myself, so I think I know what my readers want. (I've actually never had one complaint).

                I was just questioning your source as when someone states something is "standard", they can usually quote an official source.

                18pt font might be a good size to use, but it also matters which font it is you are using. Some fonts are bigger than others at the same point size. It also comes down to who your readers are. What age group are they in? What devices are they reading it on? etc
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                • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
                  Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

                  I'm not disputing any of those facts. I produce and sell ebooks myself, so I think I know what my readers want. (I've actually never had one complaint).

                  I was just questioning your source as when someone states something is "standard", they can usually quote an official source.

                  18pt font might be a good size to use, but it also matters which font it is you are using. Some fonts are bigger than others at the same point size. It also comes down to who your readers are. What age group are they in? What devices are they reading it on? etc
                  Caliban has given a good answer for the sizing issue and I believe it was what I heard yonks ago. Actually, I think I came on here to question the size issue after suspecting 18 point was too large, and it was him that told me the above formula, so stopped me getting creative lol.

                  As to the font, I always go with Times New Roman. The reason is simply that I used to get creative with my fonts, then find out that the doc files couldn't be edited by others, as they didn't have the same font set.

                  For that reason I use Times New Roman, as everyone has Times New Roman.

                  Regards,
                  Colin Palfrey
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            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

              I'd like to know your source.
              Math. 18-point Times New Roman on an 8.5 by 11 page has roughly the same proportions as a page printed with 12-point type in a standard paperback: same lines per page, same words per line, etc. So when it's zoomed in or out to the proper size one might choose to read one page of a paperback, it's just as legible.

              There's no governing body that set this standard. It's the only thing that makes any rational sense. When your page is half again as wide and half again as long, your font should be half again the point size. Duh.

              Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

              Some fonts are bigger than others at the same point size.

              A "point" is 1/72 of an inch. If your font is 18 points, then an uppercase M is expected to be precisely 1/4 inch square. If this is not the case, then this font is not designed for prolonged reading and should not be used in your report body.
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              "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
                Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                Math. 18-point Times New Roman on an 8.5 by 11 page has roughly the same proportions as a page printed with 12-point type in a standard paperback: same lines per page, same words per line, etc. So when it's zoomed in or out to the proper size one might choose to read one page of a paperback, it's just as legible.

                There's no governing body that set this standard. It's the only thing that makes any rational sense. When your page is half again as wide and half again as long, your font should be half again the point size. Duh.
                Caliban, why the insults dude? There was no call for the "duh"!

                If you read my posts again, you will see that what I said actually agrees with what you just posted, so I don't know why you're attacking me over it.

                Or were you simply using my question as a way of response? If so, then I apologize in advance.
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                • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                  Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

                  Caliban, why the insults dude?
                  What insult? Saying "duh" is an insult? Since when?
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                  "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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              • Profile picture of the author sal64
                Actually, if any of you had bothered, you'll find that a motion was passed at the UN security council back in 2007 in order ratify the Geneva Convention which clearly states that:

                In order to humanely treat the eyesight of all pdf readers and allowing for the eventual introduction of iPads and other portable devices... all ebooks shall use 18pt times roman numeral as the industry standard font.

                So Colin is in fact correct.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
                  Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

                  Actually, if any of you had bothered, you'll find that a motion was passed at the UN security council back in 2007 in order ratify the Geneva Convention which clearly states that:

                  In order to humanely treat the eyesight of all pdf readers and allowing for the eventual introduction of iPads and other portable devices... all ebooks shall use 18pt times roman numeral as the industry standard font.

                  So Colin is in fact correct.
                  :confused:

                  How the hell are we meant to know that if it's not passed around the forum? A link to the official source would have been nice!
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                  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                    Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

                    As to the font, I always go with Times New Roman.

                    Sans-serif fonts like Arial tend to be more legible when viewed on a screen, for some reason. I've never really understood why. Something about backlighting.

                    Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

                    How the hell are we meant to know that
                    Probably by going to some internet search engine the way Sal did.
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                    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                    • Profile picture of the author Ricky Allen
                      I use Ariel Font Size 16 for all my eBooks with just some headings a little larger and colored.

                      And Colin, I thought the 90 plus eBooks I have written was going some. How dare you write more than me, LOL.

                      Ricky Allen
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                  • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
                    Originally Posted by Mike Baker View Post

                    :confused:

                    How the hell are we meant to know that if it's not passed around the forum? A link to the official source would have been nice!
                    Only possible, if there had actually been any such resolution.
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                • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
                  Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

                  Actually, if any of you had bothered, you'll find that a motion was passed at the UN security council back in 2007 in order ratify the Geneva Convention which clearly states that:

                  In order to humanely treat the eyesight of all pdf readers and allowing for the eventual introduction of iPads and other portable devices... all ebooks shall use 18pt times roman numeral as the industry standard font.

                  So Colin is in fact correct.
                  Nice find!

                  The funny thing is, I suspect they got this off of us The eBook business has been driven by internet marketers, so though they love to blame our evil ways for everything, if you want to know about eBooks, ask an eBook writer.

                  Regards,
                  Colin Palfrey
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                • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
                  Banned
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                  • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
                    Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

                    Where did you find that? I've been searching with no luck...
                    Right under his tongue... which is stuck in his cheek ???
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    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

      18 point Times New Roman is the standard.

      It's not only for people with poor eyesight but also those reading the eBook on a netbook or tablet.

      Its easy to make the text smaller as you can just zoom out. Making it bigger is either a huge hassle (copy paste into something else) or leaves you needing to scroll left and right. And that is a recipe for irritation!
      Everyone passionate about this topic MUST read this amazing article
      which I first came across almost 2 years ago

      Books in the Age of the iPad — Craig Mod

      All success
      Dr.Mani
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  • Profile picture of the author UMS
    Presumably it was a PDF report, in which case there's an amazing "zoom" feature in PDF readers that will make the font size anything you want ranging from super vision to blind as a bat. :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by UMS View Post

      Presumably it was a PDF report, in which case there's an amazing "zoom" feature in PDF readers that will make the font size anything you want ranging from super vision to blind as a bat. :-)
      yup i think he did do that. thats why he has to scroll to the side each time he finishes a sentence. that is what he is complaining.

      if the original doc was created in a certain way the text wrap will be according to the text size, so by choosing the % viewing [ie : 75% or 100%] it is just zooming in which u will have to scroll more.
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  • Profile picture of the author sailor4528
    If you use windows, just hit 'ctrl' '+'

    And if it's 18 pt then 'ctrl' '-'

    Works for me. Unless of course you actually print it out...
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by timpears View Post

    I just opened a report I got a few days ago and it has to be in ten point type.
    I occasionally get complaints from people who say they think my report is in 22 point type to inflate the page count.

    But my customers are largely in their fifties and older, so - like you - their eyesight isn't the best... PLUS a surprising number of the younger customers like to buy, download, and read the reports on their mobile devices. So even if they're using young eyes, the content has to be legible on a 4" wide screen.

    Large type isn't difficult for anybody. Small type is difficult for a growing number of people. Keep that in mind as you decide what font size you should be using.
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    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    I *hate* teeny tiny type.

    That being said, my ebooks are generally either 14 or 16 point.

    I also make sure to have my WSO sales copy use size '4' too.

    And my website posts as well....Lots of white space, lots of big type.

    Works for me and me customers!
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Wilson
    Just use the ctrl + "+"?
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  • Profile picture of the author gamebak
    best thing to do is to use browser zoom (press ctrl and +)
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    I am assuming that most of you - and I do say most of you - got the joke.

    Surely?

    As far as Caliban's DUH insult goes, in the words of Bachman Turner Overdrive... You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet. That's just the way he speaks.

    Some people need to chill.

    And yes, sans serif is easier on the eye for monitors.

    Gawd this place cracks me up sometimes.

    Sal
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
      Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

      I am assuming that most of you - and I do say most of you - got the joke.

      Surely?

      As far as Caliban's DUH insult goes, in the words of Bachman Turner Overdrive... You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet. That's just the way he speaks.

      Some people need to chill.

      And yes, sans serif is easier on the eye for monitors.

      Gawd this place cracks me up sometimes.

      Sal
      I thought that one must be real, as clearly governing bodies world wide are tripping over themselves to agree with me. I've always felt they should have someone following me around and recording my ramblings for future generations. I just assumed they had finally got with the program. :rolleyes:

      Certainly 18 point is standard though, as most good writers (well, me anyway ) use it.

      I can grudgingly agree that Ariel is on as many people's computers and easy on the eye. I still think TNR looks better to me though, but that's probably because I grew up with English newspapers, which were always written in TNR.

      Regards,
      Colin Palfrey
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    Ok...

    What are the chances that we can invent and ebook that is in Braille so that blind people can also read them?

    Now THAT'S an untapped niche if ever there was!
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    • Profile picture of the author MacS09
      Verdana, min. 14 pts. - clear and large enough for all those millions who don't like to print stuff out but carry their ebooks on small portable devices. I use an iPod Touch, it's my PDA (now here is a stone age term ). Plus reasonably wide margins. That allows zooming in and comfortable reading.

      FWIW, I hate those ebooks in Times 12pt with everything squashed up against the margins. Give us some space, PLEASE! Digital space is virtually free.

      Thanks.

      Max
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  • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
    Yeah... gimme bigger fonts... I'm getting old.

    --- Ross
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