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Form letter reply for Cease and Desist order?

by Power Solutions
61 replies
I found the Warrior Forum about a month or so ago and immediately recognized it's value, so bought into the War Room. Just as an aside that one time payment is worth it's weight in several gigs of bytes. Been looking at all the WSO's and purchased quite a few to start building up my set of tools to step into the IM world. Took advantage of a few of those bundled, "build you 5 websites" offers.

There has been only one thing that never crossed my mind, which is trademark infringement. Of the several "build you X websites" bundles I bought, they gave me options on domain names and I chose what looked good to myself. Another one simply told me the 5 domain names I should register, which I did. The first few of my websites are ready with design and content and I had my adsense account approved the night this person asked me for the adsense code, which was perfect. So far I've understood what I was getting into until this morning. . ...

Got a cease and desist email from a "brand protection" agency. It's a harsh way to learn a new thing but I understand that in my research and reading up I had somehow missed this very important aspect of being online. I've been doing a lot more reading this morning, they seem to be legitimate ie it does not seem like a scam. On another aside the person who suggested this domain name is going to pay out of pocket to register me a new domain and push it to my godaddy account, which is excellent customer service btw.

I understand CND claim is legitimate but I paid for domain name registration. I paid the extra bit to make it a private registration and the small fee and part of 1 of 5 websites built up. So the final question being. . ...

Can someone provide / recommend / write up a very polite form letter asking them to pay for the registration and I will have absolutely no problem turning over the domain. I do not want either myself or another warrior to be out of pocket this small amount. I don't want to cyber-squat but I don't want either one of us to lose this money either.

$7.49 for registration, $9.99 for private, and $24 for the 1 of 5 websites built? Or are they going to refuse and spend thousands on lawyer fees simply from the principal of it?

. . .... Live and learn.

ps: anyone who posts saying I should have known can bite me
#cease #compensation #desist #form #infringement #letter #order #reply #trademark
  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    There is no such form or letter that will do
    you any good. They have no obligation... legal,
    moral or ethical to reimburse anyone for the cost
    of infringing their trade name.

    The least costly resolution for you is to give them the domain.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rachel Zaouche
    I wouldnt post saying you should have known as we all have things to learn about business. Only morons would post something like that.

    BUT I would say you are wasting your time. If this is a trademarked domain then they have all the legal rights on their side so just chalk it up to experience and move on would be my advice.

    Check first that the domain name is a trademark as it could be a scam.

    If you have private registration - how did they get the C&D through to you?

    You are lucky really - if a company sends a c&D to some hosts - they close your whole account down while you sort out the mess.

    good luck sorting it out :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author SpiralX
      Yeah, they don't like to barter or negotiate, they just want you to give it up. Just as Tsnyder and Rachel said, they have no obligation to reimburse you as the law is on their side.

      Did someone recommend this kind of domain name to you? Ask them for the reimbursement of your costs... I saw someone here in the WF in a WSO assuring people that it was fine to register brand names, bad advice IMO.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Skinner
    I agree with Tsnyder in his post above.

    Try this.... Simply email them back and be honest. Let them know you are new and it was NOT intentional, and politely ask them to buy the domain from you for what you paid. They just may feel sorry for you and do it. If not, you gotta give it up.

    But then, I'm not a lawyer and that is not legal advice. ;=)
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    Well I doubt people will like this but...

    As the registrar sold you a domain name that it isn't legal for you to have, how about they take the loss...or simply give you your money back and take the domain name back. Then if he wants it, he can buy it.

    I won't say you should have known better because you were still learning, and mistakes are a common part of the learning process. In this case what you have learned is that a domain name registrar will gladly sell you something that they know it is not legal for you to have, then let others pay out of pocket for misleading you.

    If there was any logic to the online world, it would be the registrar being sued for selling another person's intellectual property or brand-named domain.

    Regards,
    Colin Palfrey
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

      If there was any logic to the online world, it would be the registrar being sued for selling another person's intellectual property or brand-named domain.
      That would not be logical at all.

      If the registrars were going to be liable for domain names that their customers registered, you would see the process change from going and buying a domain to having to apply to purchase a domain.

      You would have to fill out an application to register a domain name. Then, the registrar's legal team would need to review your application, research the trademark status on the domain you wanted, and make a determination as to whether or not your trademark is likely to infringe upon anyone else's trademark.

      As a result, it could take weeks or months just to finalize the process of registering a domain name and the cost to register a domain name would probably go from ten bucks to several thousand dollars. Someone has to pay those lawyers for their time.

      And all that would have to be done for every domain name, even though probably the majority of domain names registered do not infringe on anyone's trademark. But, if the registrars are going to be held legally responsible for the domain names they allow others to register, you can be certain that they will do what they need to do to protect themselves.

      So, everyone would end up paying thousands of dollars for each domain name they wanted to register so as to avoid a relative handful of people losing ten or twenty bucks on every domain name they registered but should not have.

      There is no logic in that at all.
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      • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

        That would not be logical at all.

        If the registrars were going to be liable for domain names that their customers registered, you would see the process change from going and buying a domain to having to apply to purchase a domain.

        You would have to fill out an application to register a domain name. Then, the registrar's legal team would need to review your application, research the trademark status on the domain you wanted, and make a determination as to whether or not your trademark is likely to infringe upon anyone else's trademark.

        As a result, it could take weeks or months just to finalize the process of registering a domain name and the cost to register a domain name would probably go from ten bucks to several thousand dollars. Someone has to pay those lawyers for their time.

        And all that would have to be done for every domain name, even though probably the majority of domain names registered do not infringe on anyone's trademark. But, if the registrars are going to be held legally responsible for the domain names they allow others to register, you can be certain that they will do what they need to do to protect themselves.

        So, everyone would end up paying thousands of dollars for each domain name they wanted to register so as to avoid a relative handful of people losing ten or twenty bucks on every domain name they registered but should not have.

        There is no logic in that at all.
        You have explained why it would be long and complicated. That has no affect on who is responsible.

        If a domain name is sold to someone and the act of owning it breaks the law, then the person selling the domain name registration process should refund the domain name that it was illegal for them to sell in the first place.

        If he accidentally broke the law, who enabled and aided it? I'm fairly sure that is illegal in the US.

        If you helped someone break the law by mistake, woudn't you have the decency to undo what you had done?

        Regards,
        Colin Palfrey
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        • Profile picture of the author davezan
          Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

          If a domain name is sold to someone and the act of owning it breaks the law, then the person selling the domain name registration process should refund the domain name that it was illegal for them to sell in the first place.
          Then I suppose that gun dealer should likewise refund that bank robber and be
          held liable for selling him a gun to rob that bank. Or a hosting provider must also
          refund their customer whose web site was used to sell counterfeit material, and
          be held liable for that as well.

          Anyway:

          Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act

          (ii) The domain name registrar or registry or other domain name authority shall not be liable for injunctive or monetary relief under this paragraph except in the case of bad faith or reckless disregard, which includes a willful failure to comply with any such court order.
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        • Profile picture of the author onSubie
          Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

          If a domain name is sold to someone and the act of owning it breaks the law, then the person selling the domain name registration process should refund the domain name that it was illegal for them to sell in the first place.

          The problem is, there is no way to tell if it is a violation until tested in court or a formal application for recovery of the domain is made through an arbitrator. Even then, both sides get to present their arguments.

          Most legitimate violations back down before that, but domain names that contain trademarks like walmartsucks.com could fall under fair use depending on the content and purpose of the site.

          For example, you could be protected from trademark violation if you can show that your use is a parody. That's one reason pron sites can get away with trademarks in the domain.

          Also, a site like deltadeals.com could withstand a challenge from many of the various companies that own trademarks for the word "Delta". Trademarks for common English words are usually specific to a certain industry or area of use.

          Say I want to use the word "smith" in my domain. Do you have any idea how many companies have a trademark for the name "smith" in various industries? My guess is thousands or more.

          What if I am registering a domain in Canada and the trademark is only held in the United States?

          Trademark law (especially in domains) is not as quick and cut-n-dried as many posters in marketing forums would have you believe.

          Certainly not clear enough that a registrar could know every word that has a trademark registered somewhere and act as the gatekeeper.

          Mahlon
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

      Well I doubt people will like this but...

      As the registrar sold you a domain name that it isn't legal for you to have, how about they take the loss...or simply give you your money back and take the domain name back. Then if he wants it, he can buy it.

      I won't say you should have known better because you were still learning, and mistakes are a common part of the learning process. In this case what you have learned is that a domain name registrar will gladly sell you something that they know it is not legal for you to have, then let others pay out of pocket for misleading you.

      If there was any logic to the online world, it would be the registrar being sued for selling another person's intellectual property or brand-named domain.

      Regards,
      Colin Palfrey
      It's interesting that you complain about the lack of logic while making a post devoid of it, lol. It's not illegal to own a domain with a trademark in it, it's what you do with that domain that makes it legal/illegal. That being the case, registrars have no idea whether it's legal for someone to own a particular domain or not, and it's not their responsibility to find out. That obligation belongs to the trademark owner.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Bite you, eh?

    Well, you should of... :p

    You are infringing on their trademark, so they have no obligation to reimburse you for any costs you incurred. You are the one who is in violation of the law, so you will pay any fees and incur any losses associated with that.

    If you push for reimbursement, they could push for damages against you. So, I would advise not pushing your luck there.

    Unless they stated that you must transfer the domain to them, I wouldn't. Just take the site down, and let the domain expire. They can pick it up on expiration if they want it, which likely they don't.

    Your losses on building the site don't have to be losses, unless you make them such.

    You can transfer the site content to another domain, and update the information on the site to reflect the new domain name. Your only real loss is any link building you did for the site.

    Consider this a live-and-learn experience, one that you should not repeat in the future.
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  • Profile picture of the author Power Solutions
    The person recommending the domain name has already offered to set up another website at his cost. I just didn't want either one of us to be out that cash. So I see a few attempts that I could make:

    - ask them to buy at cost of my registration, from comments it seems unlikely
    - ask registrar to refund the registration, this seems unlikely as well

    But if I don't ask I will never know. I guess I will write up a polite apology letter while asking for compensation. And on the other hand I can contact godaddy and see if they can help me out.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by khawaja1971 View Post

      But if I don't ask I will never know. I guess I will write up a polite apology letter while asking for compensation.

      And if you do ask, you could be stirring up a hornet's nest of trouble. :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by khawaja1971 View Post

      The person recommending the domain name has already offered to set up another website at his cost. I just didn't want either one of us to be out that cash. So I see a few attempts that I could make:

      - ask them to buy at cost of my registration, from comments it seems unlikely
      - ask registrar to refund the registration, this seems unlikely as well

      But if I don't ask I will never know. I guess I will write up a polite apology letter while asking for compensation. And on the other hand I can contact godaddy and see if they can help me out.
      Respectfully, not one person has told you asking for compensation is a good idea, all it does is open you up to further trouble. Brian Kindsvater is a very experienced internet lawyer, take his advice.

      By all means approach GoDaddy first, they sold it to you but trust me you won't get anywhere....don't however, mess about with the Trademark owners, assuming they have a case, you're going to get stuffed. It's virtually no money you're talking about.

      Sorry but it sounds like you want someone to tell you to ask for the cash while you seem to be ignoring some very, very good advice.

      DISCLAIMER. I'm saying this on account of the OP's information that this is a genuine Trademark infringement.
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      • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        By all means approach GoDaddy first, they sold it to you but trust me you won't get anywhere....don't however, mess about with the Trademark owners, assuming they have a case, you're going to get stuffed. It's virtually no money you're talking about.
        Agreed. I hope the OP doesn't mistake my point.

        No matter how you look at it, the trademark owners are blameless victims of trademark infringement. Asking them for money could land you in deep trouble.

        Ask Godaddy for the registration fee back, or ask if they can simply unregister it. I doubt they will do it, but in my opinion they should.

        Regards,
        Colin Palfrey
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Just be grateful if they don't sue you. Asking them for ANY money at all gives them the advantage in proving their case in a UDRP.

    How would you feel if someone stole something from you and then tried to charge you to get it back? It amounts to the same thing. They don't have to pay your fees to get it back. You'd be well advised to gracefully give it to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    Hi

    That is classic cybersquating. Take a trademarked domain then ask for compensation to "give it up".

    A big reason the domain laws came into place was because companies were tired of having their trademarks held hostage. Also, celebrities were sick of paying 6 figures for myname.com.



    Mahlon
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  • Profile picture of the author pizzatherapy
    You learned a very valuable lesson here. And has been stated by other helpful Warriors:

    Rachel Zaouche:
    BUT I would say you are wasting your time. If this is a trademarked domain then they have all the legal rights on their side so just chalk it up to experience and move on would be my advice.

    tpw:
    You are infringing on their trademark, so they have no obligation to reimburse you for any costs you incurred. You are the one who is in violation of the law, so you will pay any fees and incur any losses associated with that.
    sbucciarel:
    Just be grateful if they don't sue you. Asking them for ANY money at all gives them the advantage in proving their case in a UDRP.
    onSubie:
    A big reason the domain laws came into place was because companies were tired of having their trademarks held hostage. Also, celebrities were sick of paying 6 figures for myname.com.
    You got out cheap, as your ISP could delete your account and all of your websites.

    When it comes to trade mark and copyright infringement a good rule of thumb is: Don't do it!

    You should feel fortunate you did not try to register a domain that infringed on a big corporation. They have lawyers who are ruthless.

    And an appology may not suffice. Chalk this one up to experience...
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
    These agencies get paid for each instance of infringement they pursue. If you fight, they get paid more.

    They're not in the business to "buy" domains.

    Don't give them any reason to take this issue further, or they will.
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    There is no "form letter" possible. Depending on the domain, circumstances, and what is claimed, they either have a really good case against you, or they are blowing smoke. No one here knows.

    Regardless, your out of pocket costs are trivial. If you are going to give up the domain just bite your ego and give it up. Asking for even $1 could set you up for a significant monetary claim. It is not worth it.

    Think of it this way ...

    YOU have a valuable domain and brand. Some idiot goes out and infringes on it. They then demand that you pay them for their expenses in infringing on your property.

    What do you think your response would be?

    .
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    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      Would they spend thousands of dollars in attorneys fees to sue you?

      You bet.

      I've seen $100,000 spent more than once out of principle, or spite, for small issues.

      I've also seen a lot of money spent when there is the possibility of recovering those attorney's fees against someone.

      Those fees may also be small compared to the value of protecting the trademark.

      .
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    David,

    You KNOW it is illegal to sell a domain name that has someone's trademark in it, yes? Well it is also illegal for them to do it.

    One law not catching someone for something, does not provide them a get out of jail card for every other law. THEY sold him a trademarked domain. This means they broke the law.

    I assure you the selling of trademarked goods that you do not have the rights to, is illegal. This is a fact. If you wish to argue the point, phone your local police station and tell them you are making and selling fake Armani shirts from your garage, see what they say.

    I believe "Bad faith" in your quoted exert would be easily definable as selling him a domain name he cannot keep.

    I don't expect to win this argument. The legal world is still sending its feelers online and many are going on wild west law for now, but that won't last for ever.

    Regards,
    Colin Palfrey
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

      One law not catching someone for something, does not provide them a get out of jail card for every other law. THEY sold him a trademarked domain. This means they broke the law.
      Your argument just doesn't hold up. There are too many factors in trademark law that it simply isn't possible for a piece of programming to know, such as does a trademark exist for "first use in commerce" rather than registered trademark, not to mention that using a trademark term CAN be completely legal. It depends on how it is used. There are "fair use" uses for trademarks that are perfectly legal. In addition, a registrar and the programming behind it, has no idea how the domain will be used, which is relevant to whether or not it is an infringement on a trademark. I can launch a website called ApplePie without infringing on Apple's trademark.

      The buyer does know how he intends to use it and either has or has not bothered to look into the whether or not it is a trademark and whether or not his use would be infringing. In most cases, it is clearly an infringement and a willful infringement at that.
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Your argument just doesn't hold up. There are too many factors in trademark law that it simply isn't possible for a piece of programming to know, such as does a trademark exist for "first use in commerce" rather than registered trademark, not to mention that using a trademark term CAN be completely legal. It depends on how it is used. There are "fair use" uses for trademarks that are perfectly legal. In addition, a registrar and the programming behind it, has no idea how the domain will be used, which is relevant to whether or not it is an infringement on a trademark. I can launch a website called ApplePie without infringing on Apple's trademark.

        The buyer does know how he intends to use it and either has or has not bothered to look into the whether or not it is a trademark and whether or not his use would be infringing. In most cases, it is clearly an infringement and a willful infringement at that.

        Good point.

        I could even register AppleSucks.com and that would not be a trademark violation, because it would be a review site that did not profit on the Apple name.

        In your case, ApplePie.com isn't a trademark issue, because it is a different industry.

        If the judge and the trademark office require boots in the trademark office to make a determination as to whether a new trademark can be registered, how could a domain registrar ensure that they don't sell trademark-infringing domain names?

        Simple.

        Quit selling domain names.
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    Ya see Bill, you solved it!

    I still don't see why someone like Godaddy can't release the domain name and give him the money back, when it becomes apparent they sold him a domain they shouldn't have sold. Keeping in mind, it has already been determined that he shouldn't have the domain name.

    Their technical problems have no impact on the law. So really, they are at least walking on thin ice.

    Once they themselves have decided that you aren't allowed the domain name and that you shouldn't have been sold it, even then you don't get the money back.

    I should point out that I've never even had a slightly suspect domain name. I've simply been irritated by Godaddy so many times that anything causing them problems in any way, seems to me to be karma at work lol.

    Regards,
    Colin Palfrey
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

      I should point out that I've never even had a slightly suspect domain name. I've simply been irritated by Godaddy so many times that anything causing them problems in any way, seems to me to be karma at work lol.

      Regards,
      Colin Palfrey
      Godaddy is the ONLY registrar that I know of that DOES give refunds if you change your mind within a certain period of time, and it doesn't have to be for any reason other than you have buyer's remorse and don't want the domain anymore.
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Godaddy is the ONLY registrar that I know of that DOES give refunds if you change your mind within a certain period of time, and it doesn't have to be for any reason other than you have buyer's remorse and don't want the domain anymore.

        I had a domain registrar one time that collected all of my payments and did not pay the ICAAN fees.

        I ended up losing 2 domains that I had paid up, and almost lost my money domains, because the registrar did not pay the five years of advance registrations I paid them to give me.

        ICAAN shut them down and transferred me to another registrar 3 months before my money domains expired, Thank God.
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        • Profile picture of the author JDArchitecture
          This is simply a case of paying a bit of "Stupid Tax".

          We've all been there. You're lucky you got off so cheaply.
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      • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Godaddy is the ONLY registrar that I know of that DOES give refunds if you change your mind within a certain period of time, and it doesn't have to be for any reason other than you have buyer's remorse and don't want the domain anymore.
        I suppose they have their good side then

        As someone with very little technical ability that has been forced to trudge through their obscure set up guides, listen to half hour pitches on the phone from Ireland to the US while they waffle on about rubbish before telling me why things I've paid for have disappeared...I have built up resentment against them, possibly unfairly.

        I'm still going to dislike them but I'll do it quietly

        Regards,
        Colin Palfrey
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

          I suppose they have their good side then

          As someone with very little technical ability that has been forced to trudge through their obscure set up guides, listen to half hour pitches on the phone from Ireland to the US while they waffle on about rubbish before telling me why things I've paid for have disappeared...I have built up resentment against them, possibly unfairly.

          I'm still going to dislike them but I'll do it quietly

          Regards,
          Colin Palfrey
          A lot of people dislike them, but a lot of people then accuse them of everything under the sun instead of just focusing on why they dislike them.

          I like their discount codes.
          I like their refund policy.
          I like that their phone support has always been super great for me and they've been very helpful.
          I hate all the upsells and their site is too slow.
          I hate it when they call me at home to try to sell me stuff.
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          • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            A lot of people dislike them, but a lot of people then accuse them of everything under the sun instead of just focusing on why they dislike them.

            I like their discount codes.
            I like their refund policy.
            I like that their phone support has always been super great for me and they've been very helpful.
            I hate all the upsells and their site is too slow.
            I hate it when they call me at home to try to sell me stuff.
            I got half an hour of sales pitch before they finally got round to telling me I had been emailed the info I wanted when I first phoned them. As I was calling them on my mobile from Ireland, my phone bill was not great, and that breeds some serious resentment.

            >.< I failed to dislike them quietly. They bring out the worst in me.

            Regards,
            Colin Palfrey

            P.S. I'm always amused when people go invisible and their green light turns red, drawing your attention to it. So you hover your mouse over the red light and it says, "sbucciarel is invisible" The sheer absurdity of it is brilliant.
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          • Profile picture of the author JDArchitecture
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            A lot of people dislike them, but a lot of people then accuse them of everything under the sun instead of just focusing on why they dislike them.
            And a lot of people who bitch about them go on to recommend a registrar or host that is actually godaddy operating under another name.
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    • Profile picture of the author davezan
      Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

      when it becomes apparent they sold him a domain they shouldn't have sold. Keeping in mind, it has already been determined that he shouldn't have the domain name.
      Originally Posted by onegoodman View Post

      First, I don't blame you, but I blame the ICANN for allowing people to register domain the violate trademarks, If domain violates trade mark call starbucks sucks dot com. the ICANN shouldn't allow people to buy the domain.
      Given what the others have argued since then, would you then prefer that your
      registrar filter or limit your ability to register a domain name that might or might
      not necessarily infringe someone's trademark right? That might be easier for the
      more famous, established ones like PayPal, Google, Wells Fargo, Citibank, Pfizer,
      etc., but how about common law ones you might never even heard of that are
      used in some obscure parts of the world?

      Unless you maybe don't mind. However, I doubt others feel the same way.

      Using my example earlier, let's pretend you're a gun dealer. I go into your store
      to buy a gun, not telling you I intend to rob a bank with it.

      Moments later, I rob a bank and get caught. Would you kindly refund my money
      back, and are you okay being held liable for selling me the gun used to rob that
      bank?

      At the end of the day, it boils down to knowing what you're potentially getting
      yourself into. While it's unfortunate one tends to learn the hard way, I suppose
      sometimes that's the arguably best way to...learn? *shrug*
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  • Profile picture of the author pdrs
    As I'm sure most others have said - if it's legit and you have infringed on a trademark, unknowingly or not - you have no real right to compensation.

    However, a "brand protection" agency sounds a little fishy to me... They could be 100% legit but they could just as easily be trying to scam you. I'd make sure to do my due diligence that there is actually a legit claim against the domain before I did anything. If nothing else a good look into the so called agency to be really sure that it is legit - it's pretty easy to be convincing on the web these days.
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  • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
    First, I don't blame you, but I blame the ICANN for allowing people to register domain the violate trademarks, If domain violates trade mark call starbucks sucks dot com. the ICANN shouldn't allow people to buy the domain.

    Anyway, in your case, if your domain has the exact trademark name like the one above, I will have to say let it go, and the few dollars you are asking is not really worth it.

    I am aware most companies may not go for a sue case, however, some of them got enough and just looking for a victim to payoff.

    My advice give them the domain without discussing money (you spend few dollars and doesn't worth getting into a fight with a company for the number you just mentioned). This beside, if they contacted your host, your website will be long gone by now.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by onegoodman View Post

      First, I don't blame you, but I blame the ICANN for allowing people to register domain the violate trademarks, If domain violates trade mark call starbucks sucks dot com. the ICANN shouldn't allow people to buy the domain.
      Guess you didn't read some of the posts. There is no trademark infringement until the domain is used. A registrar cannot determine how a buyer intends to use the domain. There are uses for domains that fall under fair use and there are uses for domains that do not infringe on the trademark. Just go to TESS and search for Apple and you will see that there are a LOT of Apple trademarks ... none of which infringe on the other's trademarks because they are in different trademark categories.

      Originally Posted by onegoodman View Post

      I am aware most companies may not go for a sue case, however, some of them got enough and just looking for a victim to payoff.
      The victim in trademark infringement is the trademark owner, not the infringer who gets sued.
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  • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
    Originally Posted by khawaja1971 View Post

    ps: anyone who posts saying I should have known can bite me
    Well to start with, you should have known. Not from being a great Internet marketer or guru at making money, but from common sense. If you were going to register a business then you would do research to see if you were infringing on anyone's copyrights.

    Also, here are a couple things that some people in this thread don't seem to understand:

    1. GoDaddy can sell whatever domain they want since they are protected by their agreements and federal law. It is retarded for someone to say GoDaddy shouldn't have let that happen. If you want to say that then you should go as far as saying that Verisign shouldn't have released that domain to GoDaddy, ICANN should have stopped Verisign, and that your Internet provider shouldn't have let you go through with the order. Companies shouldn't be forced to babysit their customers like that and is why they are protected.

    2. I highly doubt GoDaddy would refund the money since you obviously agreed to their TOS which basically says they aren't responsible for anything.

    However, don't let yourself be bullied by a company if you aren't actually infringing on their rights. There are a lot of so-called "brand reputation" companies that try to do that and really just collect hundreds of domains and have them freely transferred to their accounts. Do your research on it and contact the company directly, not just some people saying they work for the company. Another possibility, GoDaddy could remove the nameservers entirely from the domain so that it doesn't resolve in any way and you may be able to get away with it since it isn't being used - or they do have the authority to release the domain back to the registry. Either way, you wouldn't get to use it but you wouldn't be freely giving it to someone who is causing a hard time for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
      Originally Posted by Chase Watts View Post

      2. I highly doubt GoDaddy would refund the money since you obviously agreed to their TOS which basically says they aren't responsible for anything.
      I assume you have something similar to statutory rights/consumer rights in the US.

      Well in the UK there were many companies telling people they had voided their warranty by opening the package, according to the terms they had agreed to, when purchasing the items. It was mostly TVs and washing machines from Currys but a few offline companies were trying it on.

      Well they got told that you cannot sign away rights, and regardless of what people had signed, they had the right to take the items back if they were faulty, they felt they had been mislead or a whole host of other reasons so vague that everyone was covered.

      Do you know why you cannot accidentally sign yourself up for slavery because of someone's fine print? It's because any document that attempts to circumvent or contravene a law is not worth the paper it is printed on. All agreements in it are null and void, in the UK anyway. I assume you have something similar in the US as no legal system could function without it.

      Regards,
      Colin Palfrey
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      • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
        Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

        Do you know why you cannot accidentally sign yourself up for slavery because of someone's fine print? It's because any document that attempts to circumvent or contravene a law is not worth the paper it is printed on. All agreements in it are null and void, in the UK anyway. I assume you have something similar in the US as no legal system could function without it.
        Well to start with, if you're dealing with GoDaddy then that really won't matter since you already agreed to be tried within their jurisdiction which is in the United States. The United States, ICANN, registries, registrars, hosting companies, and ISPs all acknowledge the federal safe harbor provisions.

        From they way your posts sound, it looks like you think that GoDaddy should be responsible for refunding the domain. So let's take web hosting for example. If I signup for web hosting and start hosting child porn (a federal crime just like trademark infringement) and someone steps in to shut me down, should the web hosting company have to refund my money? By your terms, they should have been monitoring what I was doing, posting, and using - which means they should have stopped it and given me my money back.
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        • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
          Originally Posted by Chase Watts View Post

          Well to start with, if you're dealing with GoDaddy then that really won't matter since you already agreed to be tried within their jurisdiction which is in the United States. The United States, ICANN, registries, registrars, hosting companies, and ISPs all acknowledge the federal safe harbor provisions.
          That's why I was saying I assume the US would have something similar, and people probably aren't thinking of it because it normally applies to offline purchases.

          Originally Posted by Chase Watts View Post

          From they way your posts sound, it looks like you think that GoDaddy should be responsible for refunding the domain. So let's take web hosting for example. If I signup for web hosting and start hosting child porn (a federal crime just like trademark infringement) and someone steps in to shut me down, should the web hosting company have to refund my money? By your terms, they should have been monitoring what I was doing, posting, and using - which means they should have stopped it and given me my money back.
          Or you could use a more accurate example. You own a factory printing T-shirts. You don't check the design the customer sends in and wish you had as it has Nike written across it, and now he has been caught with a truck load of knock-off T-shirts, and he's busy telling the police you printed them.

          Will Nike sue the person putting in the order or the big company that made them but says they can't be responsible for the graphics given their system? You know full well this excuse has already been tried offline and doesn't hold up. It does so online purely because the law is slow to catch up.

          Regards,
          Colin Palfrey
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          • Profile picture of the author davezan
            Colin, I guess what you're arguing is if the service provider knew what was going
            on or was really doing? Or maybe knowingly contributing to the act?
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            • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
              Originally Posted by davezan View Post

              Colin, I guess what you're arguing is if the service provider knew what was going
              on or was really doing?
              No, I'm saying that the whole "How was I to know?" excuse, is as valid as saying you didn't check your bags yourself after passing through the airport...and while you are sat on the airplane. The deed has been done by both the buyer and the seller and ignorance is not a legal excuse for either party.

              And this business of signing away your basic consumer rights seems highly suspect to me. You can't do it anywhere in Europe and I highly doubt you can in the US.

              Regards,
              Colin Palfrey
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  • Profile picture of the author andynathan
    This is not legal advice, but if they annoy you sell it to someone overseas where the buyer is not beholden to us trademark law.
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
      Originally Posted by andynathan View Post

      This is not legal advice, but if they annoy you sell it to someone overseas where the buyer is not beholden to us trademark law.
      That one's just a popular myth. If the domain is .com or the hosting account is in the US, it doesn't matter where the buyer lives.

      Regards,
      Colin Palfrey
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      • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
        Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

        Or you could use a more accurate example. You own a factory printing T-shirts. You don't check the design the customer sends in and wish you had as it has Nike written across it, and now he has been caught with a truck load of knock-off T-shirts, and he's busy telling the police you printed them.

        Will Nike sue the person putting in the order or the big company that made them but says they can't be responsible for the graphics given their system? You know full well this excuse has already been tried offline and doesn't hold up. It does so online purely because the law is slow to catch up.

        Regards,
        Colin Palfrey
        That really isn't accurate at all because in that case, the driver is an employee acting on behalf of the company itself. If GoDaddy registered the domain themselves for themselves, then they would be responsible for it. If that same company you referred to was selling ripped Nike designs online, should their hosting company have to refund their money and close their website? or should they just be required to close their website?

        Originally Posted by andynathan View Post

        This is not legal advice, but if they annoy you sell it to someone overseas where the buyer is not beholden to us trademark law.
        Where the person is located doesn't matter. What generally would matter is who the registry is, who the registrar is, who the hosting company is. If any of those 3 are located in the US, the site can be closed.
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        • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
          Originally Posted by Chase Watts View Post

          That really isn't accurate at all because in that case, the driver is an employee acting on behalf of the company itself. If GoDaddy registered the domain themselves for themselves, then they would be responsible for it. If that same company you referred to was selling ripped Nike designs online, should their hosting company have to refund their money and close their website? or should they just be required to close their website?
          I actually meant the product creation being outsourced, to use an internet term. So a market trader gets a big manufacturer to commit mass trademark infringement because the manufacturer never checked what designs were given them. That's EXACTLY like this situation, and an excuse that has been used unsuccessfully in the past.

          Your example above is also a good one though. The only difference I would see is that with a hosting account you are renting an area, and generally you don't get in trouble for what a tenant does in a rented property. As the host would be the landlord, I can't see they could get in trouble for what you pictures you hang on your walls.

          Regards,
          Colin Palfrey

          P.S. I'm going to agree to disagree because there is a danger of me becoming a troll with this. I'm enjoying the battle too much so better leave it and go to sleep.
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  • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
    Alright, well I guess that's fair enough lol
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  • Profile picture of the author The Celestial Mariner
    How do you determine if a domain name infringes on a copyright.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by The Celestial Mariner View Post

      How do you determine if a domain name infringes on a copyright.

      It's not copyright. It's trademark infringement. Well, a lot of ones that are being abused are pretty obvious. iPhone, Xbox, Facebook, Amazon, etc.

      Search for trademarks here
      Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS)

      If it exists, only you know if you intend to use it in the same category and to benefit from the trademark owners intellectual property. In most cases, that is exactly what someone intends to do when they register domains with iPhone, Xbox, Facebook, Amazon, etc. in them.
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      • Profile picture of the author The Celestial Mariner
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        It's not copyright. It's trademark infringement. Well, a lot of ones that are being abused are pretty obvious. iPhone, Xbox, Facebook, Amazon, etc.

        If it exists, only you know if you intend to use it in the same category and to benefit from the trademark owners intellectual property. In most cases, that is exactly what someone intends to do when they register domains with iPhone, Xbox, Facebook, Amazon, etc. in them.

        Thanks for the reply and pointing out that this is a trademark issue and not a a copyright.
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  • Profile picture of the author erskinem
    This all seems like a lot of effort over $50.
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    • Profile picture of the author davezan
      Originally Posted by erskinem View Post

      This all seems like a lot of effort over $50.
      For some, it's the so-called principle. If that works out, why not?

      Of course, it depends which principle is worth fighting for and worth dropping.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kakashi
    I had the same issue about this.
    They asked to transfer the domain to them.
    As a compensation, I ask for the cost $35 ( domain & hosting ) & paid.

    The best thing is my site is rank#1 in page 1
    Even their official site goes to rank#2.....

    At least I have earned some money from that site.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post

      I had the same issue about this.
      They asked to transfer the domain to them.
      As a compensation, I ask for the cost $35 ( domain & hosting ) & paid.

      The best thing is my site is rank#1 in page 1
      Even their official site goes to rank#2.....

      At least I have earned some money from that site.
      So the authority site that owns the Trademark is below you?
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        So the authority site that owns the Trademark is below you?

        It will be fine Richard. He is hidden!! :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Kakashi
        yes.....
        but we know that the rank is keep changing.
        certain time my site goes to rank#2 or 3.
        But almost top 5 consistently.

        I think this is the reason their lawyer sent me an email to shutdown the site.
        I did ask that I just promote their product,but they didn't accept it.

        Lucky I got the compensation.

        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        So the authority site that owns the Trademark is below you?
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  • Profile picture of the author Power Solutions
    Someone up there posted something about a "Stupid Tax". I guess I'll take my lumps and chalk it up to a harsh lesson learned. So "no" to asking them for compensation. But I will ask godaddy and see if they will be nice to me since I've recently bought a ton of domains from them.

    Thank you all. . .. it's been educational and entertaining seeing the arguments going back and forth.
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  • Profile picture of the author chrislangley
    Asking them to pay for the registration might not go well with them I'm afraid
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  • Profile picture of the author Power Solutions
    Godaddy: I did try asking them for a refund and the support paid absolutely no attention to what I was typing in the support request and just gave me form replies. I got absolutely no useful information or reply from them at all.

    I had dozens of registrations with them, and since then, I have not registered a single domain with them and never will. Slowly transferring domains away from them as they come up for renewal.

    Cease & Desist: *** CALCULATED RISK *** THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE ***

    Just a few days ago I finalized this "transaction". I took a calculated risk. The parent company was in Norway. The company representing their online interest was in Sweden. Godaddy is in the US. I am in Canada.

    I had made an honest mistake as a beginner and simply did not want neither myself nor the person who I bought the "complete website" from to lose their money. I went counter to most of the advice that was given, and I want to stress this was definitely a calculated risk. If I ever make a report or video of what I did I will post it in the warrior forum. But basically I made them an offer they simply could not refuse:

    a) Follow the absolute letter of the law and spend thousands on legal and copyright fees. I let them make their own calculations on what I was asking them to do, which was to follow the laws to the absolute letter.

    b) Pay tiny old me my registration fee and my initial outlay to "populate" the website. Which was my absolute actual dollar cost down to the last cent.

    I did not charge them for my time as I thought of this as a valuable learning experience. Time, which was basically doing research similar to this, finding a firm in the US which dealt with copyright and trademark issues, and reading through most of the information they made available for free in their "Resources" section.

    In the final analysis I did actually get my registration fee back as well as what I had paid a Warrior to build the website. But it was a bit of a calculated risk.

    Result: I got my money back and have added a simple step in my website creation formula. Which is to simply check for trademarks before I register a domain name.

    An even simpler solution for the absolutely lazy is to add a postfix like "information" or "review" at the end of the domain name. But if a company is being aggressive even that might not work if the domain name contains exact trademark name.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Godaddy is the ONLY registrar that I know of that DOES give refunds if you change your mind within a certain period of time,
    Namecheap does too but you have to email support. I *think* all registrars have to during the "tasting" period.

    -g
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Originally Posted by khawaja1971 View Post

    Can someone provide / recommend / write up a very polite form letter asking them to pay for the registration and I will have absolutely no problem turning over the domain. I do not want either myself or another warrior to be out of pocket this small amount. I don't want to cyber-squat but I don't want either one of us to lose this money either.
    The small amount of money you lose for registering someone's trademark is nothing in comparison to the amount that you could be sued for if the company wanted to sue.

    It's a bad idea to ask them for any money. Asking them money for the domain proves bad faith registration, which makes their case a great deal more solid.

    Glad you got your registration fee back, but even if you hadn't, it would have been a fairly cheap lesson on trademarks.
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