What defines a so-called "professional" nowadays?

24 replies
There are many folk who describe themselves as "professional", and associate themselves with other "professionals" through JV's, affiliate partnerships and so on.

"Professional" used to mean possessing a minimum qualification, such as a BSc, BA, BEng etc. from a recognised institution/college/university, having completed a course of study, and examined, and passed accordingly.

Nowadays labelling oneself as professional seems to occur at random all over the place. IMHO the term "professional" has become an overused cliche, and rather meaningless.

As Internet marketers, what is your view and/or understanding on this?
#defines #nowadays #professional #socalled
  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Wilson
    Education means nothing today. Especially in IM. All you need is creativity and that is why I love this business so much.

    You can get better results than some phD with the same effort.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
    Professional doesn't mean anything nowadays even if they have been in their respected field for a long time. Always question everything when it deals with your health/money. And get more than just one opinion. Just look at what happened to Michael Jackson.
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    Interesting question. A professional is someone engaged in a profession. For me, that certainly would encompass membership of the relevant professional body.

    Will
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    • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
      Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

      Interesting question. A professional is someone engaged in a profession. For me, that certainly would encompass membership of the relevant professional body.

      Will
      i qualify then

      i am in the beatles fan club
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      • Profile picture of the author Ian Jackson
        Interesting answers!

        I work with some so-called professionals who often demonstrate they are actually anything but! :rolleyes:

        Oncewerewarriors... how does the Beatles' fan club constitute a professional body? Just curious.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Hi Ian,

    I hear you. I wasn't able to call my self an engineer for over 10 years until I had a certain level of qualification etc.

    I remember doing a System Engineer job and some people complained because I didn't have a degree and they said you couldn't call yourself an engineer of any type without one.

    Professional seems to mean whatever people want it to mean. I think with IMers - if they make money - they call themselves a professional.

    The the other poster mentioned - some people think education is irrelevant and you can call yourself whatever you want.

    It's the same as with Guru - some people think because they've made a few hundred dollars and they think that's a lot, that they are qualified to tell others what to do and that somehow being better than the struggling beginners makes you by default an expert.

    It would be laughable in most fields, but because IM tends to be filled with people that primarily have a focus on money - if you make some money - you are hailed as a success. Whether you understand how you did it or can actually help others do the same is secondary at best.

    I've lost track of the number of IM products I've bought from 'experts' only to find out that they're either not successful at all, have very limited success, or aren't even knowledgable about the subject but wanted to have something to sell, and they approached their sales process from the "tell them what they want to hear" perspective and don't mind stretching the truth.
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  • Profile picture of the author JCorp
    An individual with knowledge, innovation, application, and experience in a certain profession can be considered a professional, otherwise you're just a confessional...
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    By definition, a professional is somebody engaged in an endeavor for gain, i.e. a professional wrestler.

    Why are you concerned about titles like this?
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      By definition, a professional is somebody engaged in an endeavor for gain, i.e. a professional wrestler.
      Like a drug dealer, pimp or car thief?

      It's a valid question - times do seem to have changed in many industries and since with IM there is no real professional body - how can anyone know whether the person they're dealing with is a professional marketer or just some scam artist pretending to be one?

      When I worked in I.T I had Microsoft certifications and Educational Diplomas that people could check independantly to validate that I had the training and qualifications to support my knowledge.

      One of the biggest problems many newbies to IM have is that they just have no way to tell whether someone is genuine or not and whether what they say is true or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author A.Green
    Like a drug dealer, pimp or car thief?
    Freelance pharmacist, adult entertainment provider and...transportation liberation. :p Ever heard Tony Robbins' pimp story? It's www.you tube.com/watch?v=e8KQ7egNyYU (Broke it up otherwise the forum embeds the video. Arg. Anyway, it's [mostly] clean, I promise)

    Out of curiosity, I checked Merriam-Webster and it said nothing about having training or other credentials. I started my career in a location that's extremely particular about the use of the word professional--you need at least a certificate for almost everything--so I'm hesitant to apply that word to myself.

    I always assumed that, in the U.S. at least, the term applies to anyone who makes money at their work. So an artist who makes $100/year from his art would still be considered a professional artist.

    I admit, though, I usually overlook the word itself and want to know the person's background in the subject before taking their advice.
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  • Profile picture of the author erskinem
    According to Malcolm Gladwell, 10,000 hours of practice...

    I've got some pretty advanced degrees, but I never thought of them relating to my "professionalism". To me it is more about attitude -- being responsible to your work and your clients -- doing what you say you will do, and delivering.

    I actually just came across Corbett Barr's new project this morning called "Expert Enough". It's all about makes someone an expert in their field.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daret
    I would say professional for me means

    someone who does the job when he says he would, who is responsible and is committed towards his business and his customers...
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    • Profile picture of the author TheJustWarrior
      Originally Posted by Daret View Post

      I would say professional for me means

      someone who does the job when he says he would, who is responsible and is committed towards his business and his customers...
      Totally agree.

      A professional is distinguished from an amateur (the latter does an activity for pure pleasure) A professional gets paid and therefore maintains their activity to those ends.

      Educational credentials do not (in my view) render the individual automatically a professional.

      A professional focuses their activity on marketable and commercial products and services that people are willing to pay for. Unlike an amateur that focuses on activities that pleases them best.

      That being said, there are plenty of people that get paid and claim professionalism but deliver inferior service which would seem amateurishness. Which I think is the point of the op's thread.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daret
        Originally Posted by TheJustWarrior View Post

        Totally agree.

        A professional is distinguished from an amateur (the latter does an activity for pure pleasure) A professional gets paid and therefore maintains their activity to those ends.

        Educational credentials do not (in my view) render the individual automatically a professional.

        A professional focuses their activity on marketable and commercial products and services that people are willing to pay for. Unlike an amateur that focuses on activities that pleases them best.

        That being said, there are plenty of people that get paid and claim professionalism but deliver inferior service which would seem amateurishness. Which I think is the point of the op's thread.
        Glad to know you agree with my view point buddy
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  • Profile picture of the author NicoleBeckett
    To me, it's not just about whether you make money or whether you have a college degree. Being a professional also encompasses how you behave. You can have all of the advanced degrees in the world and make a ton of money, but if you miss deadlines, don't treat your customers/co-workers with respect, or don't live up to your end of business agreements, you're not a professional.

    Here's an example - at my old TV station, we had a producer who was in charge of one of the late newscasts. Yes, he had a college degree, and yes, he was getting paid for his work. However, he sat around in shorts and a t-shirt (while everyone else had on professional attire), hung out on Facebook, watched silly YouTube videos, was nasty to anyone who remotely disagreed with him, and copied a ton stories out of earlier newscasts so that he didn't have to write a whole lot. He wasn't anything even remotely resembling a professional.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by NicoleBeckett View Post

      To me, it's not just about whether you make money or whether you have a college degree. Being a professional also encompasses how you behave.
      That's the point isn't it - it's not a simple definition, because you can have a complete IM newbie who doesn't really understand 95% of what IM is about but wears a suit, talks about IM in an apparently authoratitive way and says they're a professional internet marketer (and has business cards to prove it).

      So to all intents and purposes they're a very professional person - but actually have no clue about the industry and just talk a good game to people who don't know better.

      I don't think we can make one answer that fits all.

      Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Fascinating thread as to how one word can mean so many different things. And you know what? It makes sense because the term "professional" does have many meanings.

    There's the professional term as a noun, and then the descriptive term as an adjective. And there are actually several definitions for both, so it all depends in the context it is used. There isn't just one definition of what a professional is according to all the major dictionarys out there. So it's not surprising that it means slightly different things to all of you.

    For example, let's say you're an athlete. You can say you're a professional athlete if that is your only profession because you're giving a lot of time and dedication to it. However, if you're an amateur boxer, let's say, and haven't gone pro yet, then in the context of that sport you're technically not a professional boxer yet. But if it's your full-time job or your main focus, you can still describe yourself to others as a professional amateur boxer because it's not a part-time hobby for that person.

    Another definition is (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace.

    An example of (1) would be a person who obtained their Charted Financial Analyst designation (C.F.A. designation). They could be viewed as a professional because he or she passed 3 very hard tests over a period of 3 years. They are recognized within the finance world as a professional because they obtained that certification, just like an M.D. is recognized as a professional in the medical world.

    In definition (2) it refers to how a person behaves; as one can be doctor but not act in a professional way, such as Dr. Conrad Murray, who violated a whole host of professional conduct standards for his profession. While he was a professional because of his certifications and because he passed his rotations, his behavior in that instance was certainly not professional.

    I mean, look at me, I tell people at parties that I'm a professional trouble maker, and I certainly am as that has been my focus for many years. lol

    Whew! Don't you just love all the nuances the English language has? Ok, now back to grinding my coffee beans.......

    RoD "Coffee-Rules!" Cortez
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  • Profile picture of the author sonicadam123
    Whether it's offline or online the word "professional" has been thrown around so much that it's lost all worth to me, anyone can call themselves a professional and sometimes it'd be pretty hard to tell for sure with how easy it is to outsource these days.

    It is a lot easier to tell offline though. (especially with the guy who plastered my kitchen ceiling)

    Education doesn't seem to mean much these days, it's just a piece of paper .. especially with some courses, i've seen people blag their way through it all and still don't know what they're doing at the end of it.

    Experience counts above all else IMO, having both helps of course though.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by sonicadam123 View Post

      anyone can call themselves a professional and sometimes it'd be pretty hard to tell for sure with how easy it is to outsource these days.
      Good point. I know a 'professional' web designer who couldn't make a decent web site if his life depended on it - but his hundreds of happy customers would support that he's a website professional because they don't know he doesn't actually do any of it himself (and they don't care).
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      • Profile picture of the author nm5419
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        Good point. I know a 'professional' web designer who couldn't make a decent web site if his life depended on it - but his hundreds of happy customers would support that he's a website professional because they don't know he doesn't actually do any of it himself (and they don't care).
        Do you think something should be done about that, or do you think it's best to leave well enough alone?

        I hate that practice, btw. I just wonder...
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        • Profile picture of the author Ian Jackson
          Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

          Do you think something should be done about that, or do you think it's best to leave well enough alone?

          I hate that practice, btw. I just wonder...
          As Andy points out, I guess as long as you get a product with which you're happy, and it works, there's no problem. To arguably throw contradiction at my own observations... welcome to the World of (the outsourcing) business.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    i guess i would deem someone a professional when they display a level of understanding about something that shows they can take their knowledge and apply it to the "real world" and achieve a desired outcome.

    a professional boxer that losses his first 10 fights is hardly a professional in my mind. his time as a professional will be very short lived and then he will be on to some other profession.

    a professional web designer who cant design a solid website is not a professional web designer. he may however be a good business man.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ekzo
    To me the word "professional" simply means that the person chooses "whatever subject" as their profession and earns money from it.

    As an example, skateboarders are skateboarders. Some of those skateboarders take their passion further and make a career out of skateboarding - they earn their living from skateboarding for profit - and are therefore "professional skateboarders".

    That's how I've always defined the word anyway
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  • Profile picture of the author MisterMunch
    You are a professional in a field as soon as you charge for your services in that field.

    So if you are recieving payment for a service, you are per definition a professional in the field of that service.

    So you can be a hair dresser, but if you can charge your frends $10 bucks for a haircut on a regular basis, you are a professional hair dresser.

    I do not know if a $0.5 dollar click from adsense can be considered professional, but when you get the check, you sure are!
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