Google Demand Letter

Well first you really need to try to find that email as proof.

Take a look here: Trademark infringement - The IT Law Wiki

You don't have any location on your profile but you will probably want to check what the Statute of Limitation is there (if they have one).

Also, did you receive the email at the email in your whois information?

It is worth making a concerted effort to locate that email. Whether it is on an old computer, or searching email archives created by email software that is no longer used, or even reinstalling old email software so any old databases can be read - you have a lot riding on that email.

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Transfer your membership site to another domain ASAP, then send an email to your list, members and affiliates informing them of the change.

I would do that sooner, rather than later. Google has a very robust legal department, you will probably lose, and should be prepared for that eventually.

In addition, Google could possibly get your ISP to shut you down, and you want to be well established on your new domain before that happens, if such an action is forthcoming.

The trademark Google and Google Adwords and Adwords, was never your property to use to start with. It could have been taken from you at any time. The simple solution to avoid these types of problems is not to infringe on trademarks, whether you see other people getting away with it or not.

Yeah, like Steve said. You need to move to another domain sooner rather than later. You're not going to win any legal battles with Google.

As far as transferring the domain to them goes.. that sounds a bit extreme but I don't know.

Seems like you could just move everything to a new domain and set that old one to re-direct to your new one.

The defense of laches could be used if a judge determined that they waited an unreasonable amount of time. However, I'm not sure if they would even consider that since you are blatantly using the word Adwords in relation to Google's product. It could be looked at different depending on the judge if you just happened to be using that word in your domain but it wasn't a website related to Google Adwords itself. There is some information and references about it here in case you're interested: Laches (equity) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for all the advice, I being I am past the 5 year statute of limitations I am legally in the right since they have decided to come after me almost 9 years later. But it would probably cost me a pretty penny to prove that.

When it comes down to it, you have to consider whether or not it is worth the risk of trying to take a company like Google to court. Yes, you could win but you could also lose, and if you do lose then you will be out quite a lot.

i would think at the very least even if you could find a legal leg to stand on that this would cost you a ton of money and lots of headaches.

though i am not a lawyer, i think it would be long shot to win the case since you are indeed profiting by using their trademarked name.

and on the off chance you did win, i would be willing to bet they could make your life very difficult.

Have you recently changed any of the sales letter?

Yes, I updated the sales letter a few months ago. Probably what caused this issue, but not really sure why.

I think if I told Google they had to buy the domain from me they would tell me to go f**k myself. They would rather pay 100K in lawyer fees then send me a dollar just to prove a point, that is just how bullies are. Of course if I could talk to Google himself, whatever that means, I could probably work something out. But of course I could never get close.

Well depending on what state that you live in, the state or county may require mediation before a suit could be filed in their courts - that would give you the chance to explain yourself. However, remember that if Adwords wasn't a registered trademark at the time the original email was sent to you, most likely that isn't when your time would start counting for the statute of limitation.

i would think before they made any real legal actions they would just notify your domain register and web host of the issue. and lets be honest, that would probably solve the issue for google and get several more people against you. i cant imagine any web host or domain registrant actually being willing to get into any serious legal battle with google. They would surely rather just piss you off and let the chips fall where they may.

I could see GoDaddy standing up against Google, they have been known for getting into situations like that with big companies as well as with the government. But they will most likely just give in eventually. Remember, they will just protect their rights, not yours

It is a fact, universally acknowledged, that Google will get its own way. Legally, they will crush you, either by winning the case or just keeping it going until you are broke. No skin off their nose. Like Steve said, move it to another domain asap and let your list know. It is aggravating, but an ant (no offense) challenging an elephant is going to get squashed.
And to be honest, do you need years of aggravation from Google? That is not how you want to spend your time.
Good luck, but move the domain and salvage what you can.

I had to change a site to a new domain once. Not for copyright issues, but rather a partnership that dissolved where the other party owned the domain.

I moved the site, then since the old domain was on my server, I simply put in a redirect to get a jump on the traffic from the old domain. Worked well - by the time the old domain DNS was changed by my former partner I got a month's worth of traffic to the new site.

So get a new domain, move the site, let your list know, then put in a redirect until you have to give up the domain.

Vlad Romanov comments do not really make sense. There is a statute on this and Google did give me permission 7 years ago. That is what makes me the most mad. They can just change their mind like that. I guess I should have kept that email, just never really thought it would be an issue later.

The issue is even if I am right, being right is still a losing position.

Well thank you to everyone who posted good ideas. I am now going to write a letter back to Google lawyer and see where we go from here. I will post updates as I receive them.

Coming soon Bing-Secrets.com! J/K

Vlad Romanov, verbal contracts are just as binding as a written contract. Emails are also used as evidence all the time, especially if actions were taken based on the relayed upon information.

However, I am not really looking to take this discussion in that directly.

id just give it them or face a lawsuit with a company with unlimited cash!

who do you think will win! doesnt matter who is right

It is better to make some fast moves and transfer everything to a new domain. I don't think that you can legally win this case. It is definetly a trademark infrigement.

They only taking back what is legally theirs and you stole from them! Its their trademark you are illegally using!

okay, I am n't a lawyer, nor most of people on warrior forum.

Are you on trademark in fragmentation, that would be a yes, their trademark is in your website URL, I don't blame you, and I am not sure why google care about it after all your product is complementary to them.

You are having two choices:

go with what the guys said and notify everyone the change of your website URL and name and give the domain as soon as possible.

or

get a lawyer and consult him if this domain really worthy to you and make a good income out of it.

However, consider two things, google probably is one of the most powerful trademarks today and that goes on all of their products and they have a tough legal department that wouldn't mind to get you in court (if you find the letter print it and get it to your lawyer).

I believe with that letter, you might have a good shot to protect yourself against google.

It's THEIR trademarked name. What is there that you don't quite understand? You could get away with it for 50 years and be the last person they asked to hand over the goods--but when they do--your still in the wrong.

It's a touted quite loudly on these forums. Use a trademarked name in your domain at your own risk. For those that get away with it, there are many others who don't. In this case, your in the "didn't get away with it" pile.

Give up the domain name, buy a new one (like AWSecrets.com) and hope they don't try to comeback and shut your product down, as if using a trademark in the name is just as open to them to take as your domain name is.

This is probably a really stupid question...

But Why would anyone want to get legal advice
from a public internet marketing forum?

My Advice is to not get advice from here and
go an talk to your lawyer.

And because I said dont get advice from here and
then gave my advice, I think that cancel's everything!

Confused? Whats for lunch?

I'm just curious... You shoud expect Google to become concerned about your use of their trademark when you state:

Copyright © 2011 Adwords Secrets

Or say in your header graphic: "From the First Adwords Copyrighted Author"

This is not a legal opinion, but by looking at it though the eyes of an average consumer those two lines lead people to believe you have the right to copyright things AS ADWORDS. I can see exactly why they are pursuing you at the moment.

That statement is much different than saying: The first author to create an Adwords Guide which was copyrighted.

Chris,

Unless you are actually Bill Gates hiding behind a fake name, Google's lawyer is bigger than yours. Take the advice, transfer your data and save your money.

It shouldn't come as a surprise, Google and many companies are pretty strict about trade mark terms, you really should have kept the email

Sadly, there is no statute of limitations, on this issue, (you can thank the Genius elected congress, mostly senators,) for exempting IP, patents, ect, from that process, I know it makes no sense, because it shows you just how much power the big guys have and how little actual rights us little guys have.

But that is the fact, and the facts, sometimes, are not pretty, the truth is that big corporations, have the money to file the paperwork, spend the money to hire attorneys, and then go about dispensing their "justice" upon the world.

Its not fair, but there is nothing at all you can do but move and perhaps find some other "better" business model, the truth is that in the end, you may influence many customers, over time, that would have been adwords customers, but perhaps will not be in the future, that is your revenge.

Move them over to a different platform, bing, for instance, is a great platform, )

In the end Google may win the war, but they will loose money, not likely to put a dent in the billions they rake in every year, but every dime, adds, up.

Suzanne, I think your getting too personally involved here, I think as a person I can feel the Original Posters, Pain, and thereby , Empathize with him, his business is about to change, I think that is the human thing to do.

If we all run around "blindly" defending Chattel, as property, then eventually we come full circle, and find that not everyone has rights, there was a time in the past, where a woman could not even own land or vote.

I find it the ultimate irony that you would defend chattel as property, it just seems well funny.

1. (Law) (often plural) Property lawa. chattel personal an item of movable personal property, such as furniture, domestic animals, etc.

b. chattel real an interest in land less than a freehold, such as a lease

not sure why this thread took a personal turn.

the OP was not looking for a shoulder to cry on. he was looking for advice about a legal issue he was facing.

there really is no reason to get personal when someone intentionally or unintentionally steals a trademarked name that is protected by law. the OP was profiting off of someones hard work to brand the name google. he had no right to do that.

i am not attacking the OP, but the law is pretty clear on this stuff. he may not have been fully aware of the consequences at the time, but i am thinking he understands now.

no one is entitled to steal the efforts of someone else. just because google has a net worth several hundred times the OP doesn't make it ok for him to steal their trademarked name.

i personally dont feel sorry for the OP at all, he said he made several thousand sales using a trademarked domain. its very likely he would not have been nearly as successful if he had not used a googles trademark.

Terribly sorry this happened to you.

You can bet Google has deep pockets and should you decide to pursue this through litigation, you can expect to pay a hefty retainer for a lawyer - probably $5,000 just to get the lawyer started. Then the lawyer will eat up that retainer as fast as possible and start billing you at an exorbitant hourly rate of about $350 a hour. He'll keep billing you as long as you are willing to pay it.

In most cases similar to this, the real winners are the lawyers.

Sometimes you gotta know when to fold 'em. It's time to fold 'em. Move on. If it were me, I wouldn't fight this fight.

They can and they will. I bought a domain called greenamazon.com and was selling amazon green products from the site. Within a week of launch Amazon came down on me with a letter similar to the one you received from Google.

Amazon has a third-party that searches the Internet for what it considers trademark infringements.

Since the Amazon jungle is Green, some said that Amazon had no case and that I should hold out.

I did not.

I decided rather than fall out of favor with an Internet giant that has helped me earn an income for years -- I gave them the domain.

However, unlike you, they gave me a gift certificate from Amazon to cover my cost of the domain.

If you value you relationship with Google, I would give it up.

That's the problem when one company has such a large footprint that it can virtually shut you down.

That's my 2 cents.

If you fight this, you will lose. You are using 'AdWords' in your domain name and that name is copyrighted, it is theirs and they can do anything they want with it.

Look on the bright side and consider yourself lucky with all the money you have made off of them until now.

I once had a website with F1 in it, as in Formula 1, and had to close down the domain as well because Ecclestone (boss of F1) owned the rights to everything that used "F1".

There have been precedents already set so, although it is a dreadful shame for your business and all your hard work, sadly, yes they can take your domain if 'Adwords' is a trademark.

Will

PS I note some people confusing copyright with trademarks. It is a trademark issue.

Because they can.

And it doesn't matter if you are right or not. They have billions and teams of attorney's to drive you into bankruptcy.

That's how American Business works. There is no justice. Whomever has the money owns you.

You lose.

I've been through the Google fight before. The firm I consulted wanted a $4,500 retainer just to write a letter.

Everyone is scared of them because they have piles of money.

You can't beat them. At some point in the future you would think that people would wise up. But money will always win out.

Sorry to hear about your problem, I truly am.

I've received similar threats from other companies for merely using their name in a url as a result of putting it in a WordPress title.

The internet is not a place of free speech, big business now owns it.

On the plus side the Federal Government via Congress is just about to destroy the whole thing due to Copyright Laws being introduced in congress.

The day of the Affiliate Marketer is about to come to an end. You can expect 1,000's of these kinds of threats to be occurring daily as soon as Congress finishes up these bills and they become law.

I would wait for them to make the next move. If it turns out that they take your site down or try to sue you, I'd immediately get a lawyer and countersue. Don't let the bname "Google" intimidate you. I don't car eif they have a billion dollar legal budget. If you find you are in the right then fight for your legal right to keep that domain. Don't roll over and let the Google express run you down and crap all over your hard work!

Nikhil, the headline actually helps my case. Google is claiming that I have a calculated a way to deceive customers into thinking I am part of Google. Obviously I am not doing that if I am saying

"What Google Doesn't Tell You About Making Money With Adwords"

If I were confusing customers then I would really be saying

"What I Dont Tell You About Making Money With Adwords"

And that does not make any sense.

If a large company tells you that you can use their trademark as long as you disclaim you are not part of the company. Then you relay on that information and build a company, as well as help build that brand on some small level.

It is not right for them to later come back and steal the very thing they told you that you could build.

Otherwise it's like sure go ahead and build that *wink wink* Oh thanks for building that and getting thousands of people to know our product. But now I want to change my mind about the trademark and take your website.
Oh wait this is a calling for my new business model. Get a bunch of trademarks, give permission for other people to use those trademarks, then once they have established themselves tell them I changed my mind and take their domain.

I am Amazed at the lack of knowledge that some posters here have created, by posting, what could be easily defined as drivel, What we are discussing here is alleged infringement, for the record infringement, is not theft nor does it involve the theft of Intellectual property, that is a totally different thing,

My God people read the Law, I have seen posts, talking about many different aspects of the law confusing them so often that it defies the imagination.

We have posts talking about copyright law, criminal law, civil law, without regard for any of the actual laws that effect this discussion.

I would encourage anyone to read through these pages, because for one it has a direct bearing on this discussion and two, because learning about something few people understand is always a good thing.

Below are two very good legal publications that define this issue in good reform, however, even those that are educated more than any of us, all agree,

This is not a black and white issue, and that is something that a lot of posters here do not fully understand, having a discussion is good, engaging in emotional drama, is ignorant.


Anti-Cybersquatting Legislation


Summaries of Infringement Cases

@Susan, I respect your opinion, however

Infringement of Intellectual property, is not automatic, nor is copyright infringement automatic, there is also Fair use, and Bad faith to consider, you first have to prove that the OP is infringing, and is not entitled to fair use, which he may well be, that we cannot determine only he and the mark holder can do that, and the registrar,

(logically if it were me I would abandon it, I think most here would say the same thing so in that we do not disagree)

As well there is Intellectual property, but that is a double edged, weapon, the OP also has an Intellectual property at risk here and that is the Copyrighted and totally legal educational course on how to use Adwords, you see IP law is not limited to only a mark holder, the law also applies to other uses, I do not think it is such an easy thing to judge the OP and his intent.

There is the accepted practice of fair use and as well Google is not entirely the victim here as some have alleged.

They participated in this relationship, they benefited from this relationship by gaining paying consumers, so this is not as clear cut as some might wish to believe.

If this were a one way street, and Google Adwords did not benefit from the relationship then I would not say anything at all, it would be black and white, but that is not the case here.

This domain name has been around since 2003, and in all that time Google never took any action, they implicitly allowed this relationship to continue and through that they implied, that it was ok to do so, that is also something to consider, but as so many including myself have said,

legally it would be madness to go up against a giant with a slingshot.

I would encourage anyone to read those resources mentioned, earlier,

Anti-Cybersquatting Legislation


Summaries of Infringement Cases


It really does go a long way to explaining what the law says and what the law does not say, it is in some ways a grey area, because of the duel nature of how this relationship over time was accepted, by Google, implicit, application of acceptance, can be argued, but again, I do not think anyone would agree that it would be worth going to court over.

Again in the resources, (Harvard law) makes a good case, that in some instances, the registrar is empowered to make a decision concerning bad faith, and so in doing fills the shoes of the court.

I think it may be plausible that there may be equal blame here for both parties, and it is entirely possible that the OP may in fact be in the right, but only he can make that decision after consulting with an attorney.

Assuming evil intent and bad faith I think is both logically and morally wrong.

I defend this because not because I have any inside information but because I do not automatically assume that there is no fair use here, I do not assume that only one party has rights, that is where error comes into play here.

Both parties, have rights, and many posts here have attempted to show that only one party has any legal rights and

That is just patently wrong, (pardon the pun)

I do not disagree with you, and what your saying, but I do disagree that bad faith is automatic, that is what I defend, what I say is that there must be the concept of Fair use, but that does not mean the OP is not infringing, upon the mark, but I do not think that the OP can be said to be diluting the mark and that is also something that must be carefully considered, because legally that is part of the entire case here.

I hope that helps a little, it is not as easy as it may appear to be, to divine intent, may appear to be easy, but in reality it is never as easy as that.

I believe that most of the time, the mark is likely in the right, but we cannot just assume that there is no concept of fair use to do that would be wrong.

Disclaimer, this is not legal advice, nor is it to be used as such, this is discussion in a public forum and as such is subject to free speech, nothing here may be taken as implied or other wise, advice or consent of such is prohibited.

I recently read that Google went after another domain owner and lost. It was something like Groogle or similar. I cannot remember. Anyway, they lost the battle and did not win the domain. I would simply tell them your experience with the domain and tell them that you are not willing to give it up that easy. Offer to sell it to them at a crazy price and see if they bite. I would also suggest contacting a domain attorney. They do exist.

I am not an attorney and nothing I have said should be considered legal advice. Just saying what I would do.

Goog luck!!!

It just goes to show that eventually things do come back to bite - good luck with your site.

Thank you for your comments Tim, I have read the law and you are right on the mark. Technically I certainly do have a case. Google would have to prove that I have attempted to deceive my customers into thinking I was part of Google. Google also very clearly put that in the letter.

The fact that they allowed this for over eight years is another huge factor especially when the statue is five years.

But what I have gotten from this discussion, is that it is not about being right or wrong.

If I wanted to put in the money I could certainly try to prove I was right. But then what, I win, spend a lot of money in lawyer fees, and then find Google is salty and removes this site as well as my other 20 sites out of its search results.

Being that ever one of my sites ranks on the first page of Google winning would probably be far worse.

I have written a letter to Google to see if we can work something out, I am now just waiting for their response.

And yes big companies lose lawsuits all the time, look at the guy that owes nissan.com. Nissan automotive sued him and Nissan automotive lost.

However, when I released AdWords Secrets originally it was one of two AdWords Guides on the market, it was a big deal then. Today it is one of hundreds and AdWords is nothing new anymore. I just do not see it as being a fight worth fighting.