Thinking Out Loud...WSO's/Products Being Shared Illegally...

by 58 comments
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#internet marketing #illegally #loudwso or products #shared #thinking
  • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
    I think it's a great idea, Mike. There would have to be a reporting mechanism in place for sure, although it would take some time to double check those before posting or whatever you did.

    I know when I come across products being shared/sold illegally, I try to contact the creator to let them know.
  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

    I know we all do our own thing, but I thought it might be nice to document strategies and the process to give away to members.
    In general, I think trying to fight pirates is a waste of time.

    However, if you are going to do it anyway, something that saves some of the time you were going to waste is a Good Thing. While I'd personally prefer that you invest none of your time in this, the decision of how to deal with it in your business is after all your own, and anything that can reduce the amount of time you invest in it can only benefit you and your customers.

    So you've got my support.
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Sounds interesting. Might be interested. Want to tell you though that it is very easy to get your products off of Fiverr. I've done it several times. Just use the contact link and tell them the gig and offer proof that the product is yours. They normally take it down right away.
  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    A lot of the processes you need to happen here can be automated. That is why I think it a good thing that you are involved in the process.

    There are two sides to it:
    1. People selling our stuff; and
    2. People giving our stuff away.

    If sellers put their product info into a secure database, a cron scan of File Sharing sites could reveal a lot of the products that we are trying to protect.

    All we need to do is identify the product in the database, identify it on the file sharing sites / fiverr type sites, then automate delivery of take down notices.

    Even if there was a fee for this, I'd be interested, so long as it was not a huge fee.
  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    Wow, I could understand selling a service "using" your tools, but selling the tools themselves.

    I've taken advantage of enough of your holiday sales in the past to know that the buyer could buy the product legitimately for not much more...
    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Barry Unruh View Post

      I've taken advantage of enough of your holiday sales in the past to know that the buyer could buy the product legitimately for not much more...
      A lot of people get mad about how Mike's affiliate program works because they're stupid and don't know how to deal with "Mike can have a sale but we can't" in their business. So Mike suffers a lot of deliberate efforts to damage his business for "stealing" people's commissions when he has a sale. It really has very little to do with potential customers wanting to pirate the products - it's mostly former affiliates wanting to hurt Mike's business.
  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Mike, sounds awesome. I am in.
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    There is a great automated DMCA WSO product that I bought that makes it a snap to send out DMCAs with one click.

    http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...aaaaazzzy.html
  • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
    For as much as I believe in planning, I almost hate to admit this--but, this is the dark side of product creation that I was utterly unprepared for. On one hand, I've been taking the unauthorized wide dissemination of our product as a bit of a complement--I mean, doesn't the fact that people are willing to SHARE it mean that it's valuable, at least to some degree?

    Even still, I'm a bit tired of fighting a fight against this that I don't have the time or energy to fight.
  • Profile picture of the author RobKonrad
    Sounds like Carl has already done what you had in mind:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...rs-piracy.html

    Cheers,
    Rob
  • Profile picture of the author .X.
    Both of the products mentioned above
    are a nice start but there's still too
    much hands-on for my liking (especially
    with a monthly fee attached).

    I think Bill is on the right track with
    something that can handle this with an
    automated system.

    1. You enter your product and business
    information

    2. The system locates shared files

    3. The system sends out the appropriate
    message.

    I'd think Big Mike's crack programming
    team could put that together with
    ease - and I'd probably be happy to
    pay for the service (amazing no one
    offers this already).

    It might still require a pair of human
    eye balls but this is something that
    could be outsourced very reasonably.

    I agree with CD - this isn't worth *my*
    time but we should all do what we
    can to protect our products for the
    good of our business AND our customers.

    X
  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    I do think there are things that can be done to mitigate the sharing of such things. It will never be stopped, but we could up the pressure a whole lot.

    Of course, I am all for automation as well, but I think one of the bigger aspects of this is going to need to be the "show of solidarity" from IMers.

    When these sites get one or two notices from a few people, they may comply, but they don't take it too seriously.

    If however we were more organized with our efforts, we could put more pressure on the folks that run these sites.

    Also, along the same lines there would need to be some serious effort into removing as many of these files as possible from each site even when some of the product owners are not "on board" with this project.

    I am thinking its not going to do a whole lot of good if 10 of us got together to keep our stuff off of a few sites, but there are still hundreds of products being illegal shared that are never challenged from the same site.

    It is a huge problem, and one that can't truly be solved, but I do think a serious dent could be made with automation and a sense of solidarity.
  • Profile picture of the author DavidTT
    well its the internet and unfortunately you cant have a product without getting it shared by someone. If you can download movies and games, a wso isnt much
  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Another thought just came to mind.

    I think it might be worth the effort to try to get some higher profile coverage of someone getting sued for engaging in this behavior.

    Just like with image thefts, we all know you should not do it, but what prevents the majority of people from doing it is the publicized incidents of 10k lawsuits being filled.

    I see this problem a little like the issue of terrorism, you will never be able to stop it, but if you keep dropping bombs on the perpetrators it is a determent. Being proactive also make it much harder for people to organize such sites.

    without organization, even if someone does share your product, it will likely be with far less people.
    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      Another thought just came to mind.

      I think it might be worth the effort to try to get some higher profile coverage of someone getting sued for engaging in this behavior.

      Just like with image thefts, we all know you should not do it, but what prevents the majority of people from doing it is the publicized incidents of 10k lawsuits being filled.

      The biggest problem in that approach is country borders.

      The guy that ripped me off the hardest is based in India.

      That is not to say that all Indians are crooks. I am just saying that this one crook was an Indian.

      But when it comes to lawsuits and international borders, the job becomes more difficult and way more expensive, with little promise of gaining the desired results.

      I still think the easiest way to address this is cripple the crooks in their distribution efforts.
  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Stephens
    For PDFs I can remember seeing some software that you can use to ensure that your documents can not be copied and resold.

    All I can remember is it was a big name marketer from Vancouver Canada, I think who was selling it.

    It was uncrackable and basically authorised the use of a document for a specific computer, so if someone wanted to open it on a computer other than the one it was originally purchased and opened on, it sent a message and invoice to the person that has the illegal copy to purchase a copy. If they don't, the file will not open.

    Can't remember what it's called but it looked good.
    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by jeremy Stephens View Post

      For PDFs I can remember seeing some software that you can use to ensure that your documents can not be copied and resold.

      All I can remember is it was a big name marketer from Vancouver Canada, I think who was selling it.

      It was uncrackable and basically authorised the use of a document for a specific computer, so if someone wanted to open it on a computer other than the one it was originally purchased and opened on, it sent a message and invoice to the person that has the illegal copy to purchase a copy. If they don't, the file will not open.

      Can't remember what it's called but it looked good.

      That works really good except when the "phone home" computer does not respond.

      The option is putting a password on the document, which PDF files permit, but what if your customer loses the password? And what about the programmers in the world who know how to look at the PDF source code to bypass the password?

      There are no easy solutions.
    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by jeremy Stephens View Post

      It was uncrackable and basically authorised the use of a document for a specific computer, so if someone bought a new computer, it made them buy the product again.
      Fixed that for you.
    • Profile picture of the author unoentremil
      Originally Posted by Jeremy Stephens View Post

      and basically authorised the use of a document for a specific computer, so if someone wanted to open it on a computer other than the one it was originally purchased and opened on, it sent a message and invoice to the person that has the illegal copy to purchase a copy. If they don't, the file will not open.
      Hi Jeremy,

      The consequences of this ultra-defensive system are devastating for your loyal customers and should be considered. Nowadays all of us use different devices and computers.

      In my opinion, the best way to fight piracy is providing uncrackable value to your customers. Call it support, updates or whatever. Doing so it's even possible to gain customers from the dark side.
  • Profile picture of the author solarwarrior
    it is the best to nip the problem in the bud.
    • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
      Originally Posted by solarwarrior View Post

      it is the best to nip the problem in the bud.
      Is that so?

      What do you recommend then? Not selling anything at all? lollll
  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    Seems like a lot of effort to go out of your way to step on the cockroches. They can't keep up with me anyway, so what do I care if they steal my old stuff and feed off the crumbs that are left?


    But yeah, as I'm sure you're aware Big Mike you can "Harden the Target" so that they go looking for easier carrion to feed off and leave your stuff alone.
  • Profile picture of the author Webpromotion
    It's a real bad problem.

    But I do not see an end to it.

    Most companies when pricing their products put in a certain amount for loses due to theft.

    Even if you build a scraper that finds these products being shared.... what about torrents. Good luck with stopping those.

    The music industry with all it's unity and all of it's billions of dollars has not been able to stop piracy, what makes you think our industry can.


    The software industry had its shot at it. Remember dongles and protected software. It was broken back then and it still is being broken now. Software industry just gave in.
    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      The biggest problem in that approach is country borders.

      The guy that ripped me off the hardest is based in India.

      That is not to say that all Indians are crooks. I am just saying that this one crook was an Indian.

      But when it comes to lawsuits and international borders, the job becomes more difficult and way more expensive, with little promise of gaining the desired results.

      I still think the easiest way to address this is cripple the crooks in their distribution efforts.
      Just because they are in another country doesn't mean they are untouchable. The United States has many bilateral copyright agreements in place that protect your copyrights in the participating company therefore one should not hesitate to send a DCMA notice.

      I just cite the agreement if I have to send a notice to some one in a different country.

      Bilateral copyright agreements of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      That's the list of countries. Note: India is on the list. = )

      Just recently I found my software "AGAIN" being offered on a very prominent forum with a certain colored hat in the name.

      This time I called the actual hosting company and as things turn out the gentleman who owns the hosting company insisted on being a forum moderator on this site in order to host the site. He logged in and instantly deleted the thread offering the free crack and download link and told me to call him any time I find my products on the forum.

      So sometimes taking the time to protect your business works out to our advantage!

      I like Mike's idea but I've sent quite a few DMCA notices and now it only takes me about 1 minute to fire one off. hehe
    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by Webpromotion View Post

      Software industry just gave in.
      No, we did not.

      We just got a bit sneakier and we learned to be quiet about what works
      and what doesn't work.

      Some took the approach "if its going to be cracked, use the cracks as marketing"

      Some took the approach " blitz the computer the crack is running on"

      Some took the approach " The software can tell if its been altered, so lets
      pretend that it works, and slowley degrade, or just act like its crummy software full of bugs to begin with"

      Some took the approach " update so often the crackers cant keep up with the current versions"

      Some took the approach "join the crackers, get some payback"

      Some took the approach "Law enforcement"

      Some took other steps.

      What we have never done, "is just gave in "
  • Profile picture of the author mikem1962
    I to have seen people on fiverr selling WSO's cheap. Not sure how to get this practice stopped.
  • Profile picture of the author Shazia Mirza
    I think me and OP are in the same boat, I am lucky I came across this thread, looks like this guy on Fiverr is really selling a multitude of products.

    Here is my rant on him... http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...y-product.html

    I will look through this thread and cross my fingers hoping to see a brilliant idea!
  • Profile picture of the author Ben Gordon
    Mike, I totally agree with you. I personally had to actually hire a full time Filipino just to check if my stuff is leaked and send DMCA notices. It's a total waste of $300 per month but it's definitely worth it and I would recommend it to everybody who sells 'big time' internet marketing products. Worst of all is people who spread my products many times and create many other file downloads after my employee sends a DMCA notice to the file host. I have threatened most of the file sharers on forums to legal action, however, only two of four took it seriously and closed up their posts on forums. Do you know if there's any way to get forums to remove this content? That's the main thing I'd like to know. If there were, it'd make my life a lot easier.

    Although this is a continuing issue, I don't know if it can be fully stopped and put to an end, especially if your product gets really popular. Unfortunately, thieves are everywhere and have existed since, well... our world stated. I can still remember that caveman movie where one caveman hits another with a rock and takes his raw chicken. Hopefully soon we can be the ones to hit back that caveman .

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