Does PPC Spy really do this?

[Anna Johnson]

Anyone else get an email about PPC Spy? Let me know if my understanding of one of the features of PPC Spy Platinum (i.e. the upgrade) is correct...

1. I upgrade and start inviting my subscribers to download PPC Spy.

2. Jim is one of my subscribers and installs the plugin into Firefox.

3. Jim does a search on the Internet e.g. for "make money in stocks" then, if I am an affiliate for one of the products that comes up in the search results, then MY affiliate link overrides the link of whoever has taken the time to set up an Adwords campaign and advertise the product.

Is this correct?

[Justin Mandel]

I think you got most of it Anna, but as I understand it (unless I am wrong) in step 3 you will earn affiliate commissions on ANY product that is bought as long as it is purchased through those top 2 links that get moved up into Google's #1 or #2 slot through PPC Spy.

[agoodsaid]

It replaces the top two search spots with your links to related CB, PDC or Amazon and ? (I forget) products (assuming you've branded it correctly) not the adwords ads.

Andrea

[ebuyer123]

I have a plati membership and so far nobody with a free membership making me any affiliate money yet.

[jonnyboy]

I received one from Brad Fallon (Stomper) - and I'm checking it out now. Curious why it's free. Perhaps this is the "freemium" business model?

Jonny

[Paul Myers]

Anna,

I am really interested to know if that's accurately summed up or not. If it is, and assuming I'm understanding it correctly, I'm going to be adding a bunch of people to my "naughty children list." (In this case, the creator and anyone I see promoting it.)


Paul

Originally Posted by Anna Johnson

3. Jim does a search on the Internet e.g. for "make money in stocks" then, if I am an affiliate for one of the products that comes up in the search results, then MY affiliate link overrides the link of whoever has taken the time to set up an Adwords campaign and advertise the product.

Is this correct?

It's kind of correct!

When you upgrade to the Platinum version--You are sent to a page where you enter your affiliate usernames for Amazon, Clickbank, and Pay Dot Com--your affiliate information is then stored.

Now...

Whenever your referrals search for "make money in stocks", the software finds a related product, relative to what you are searching for in the Amazon, Clickbank, or Pay Dot Com marketplaces--Once the software chooses the product, it puts your affiliate links in the top two positions of the organic side of the search... not sponsored ads(PPC).

Oh... this only works when your referrals have the plugin turned on.

If that's a confusing explanation--Let me know. I will revise it!

[Paul M]

From my understanding of PPC web spy, if your a Platinum member or the product
creator...everyone who downloads the free or paid version from you will see your
affiliate links on the top few spots for most keyword. Only while the tool is turned
on.

The tool from my knowledge doesn't replace or alter the search results. When turned
on, it just bumps the real search results down and shows the top few results as affiliate
links of the person you download through. (Platinum affiliate or product creator)





P.S. The videos on the owners sales page and OTO page are far more informative
about this feature.

-paul

Originally Posted by Paul M

From my understanding of PPC web spy, if your a Platinum member or the product
creator...everyone who downloads the free or paid version from you will see your
affiliate links on the top few spots for most keyword. Only while the tool is turned
on.

The tool from my knowledge doesn't replace or alter the search results. When turned
on, it just bumps the real search results down and shows the top few results as affiliate
links of the person you download through. (Platinum affiliate or product creator)





P.S. The videos on the owners sales page and OTO page are far more informative
about this feature.

-paul

Anna,

This is an even better explanation!

[Anna Johnson]

Anna,

I am really interested to know if that's accurately summed up or not. If it is, and assuming I'm understanding it correctly, I'm going to be adding a bunch of people to my "naughty children list." (In this case, the creator and anyone I see promoting it.)


Paul

Yes, it raised a red flag for me.

Whenever your referrals search for "make money in stocks", the software finds a related product, relative to what you are searching for in the Amazon, Clickbank, or Pay Dot Com marketplaces--Once the software chooses the product, it puts your affiliate links in the top two positions of the organic side of the search... not sponsored ads(PPC).

Thanks for clarifying. Does it replace the first two listings or push them down?

[Anna Johnson]

Paul M, marcanthony - thanks for explaining that. Hmmm... something tells me Google is not going to like PPC Spy...

[Tony M.]

Does not work with international campaigns so if you're not US-based or if your competitors aren't, you might not be able to see their data.

Another "shady" thing is, the claims can't actually be true that all of the people you refer (and their own referrals) will see your affiliate links.
Because if your referrals start promoting the tool, it most likely means that they are PLATINUM users - and therefore you can't make the commissions because they do.

So the "MLM-ish" system is totally flawed.
Does not fly for me, I'm getting rid of it.

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by Tony M.

Does not work with international campaigns so if you're not US-based or if your competitors aren't, you might not be able to see their data.

Another "shady" thing is, the claims can't actually be true that all of the people you refer (and their own referrals) will see your affiliate links.
Because if your referrals start promoting the tool, it most likely means that they are PLATINUM users - and therefore you can't make the commissions because they do.

So the "MLM-ish" system is totally flawed.
Does not fly for me, I'm getting rid of it.

I didn't buy it to resell or send affiliates to the product. I actually want to use it myself and won't be promoting it. I would have considered promoting it if it wasn't for what people are talking about here. I think it would have played better if it was just a commission for a product instead of the tainting of the search results.

Personally, I don't think this type of thing would really work unless the market was a lot larger. Even then, people would get pretty mad knowing that the searches they make will be influenced by the plugin.


I haven't decided if I like the product or not yet. I am still working with it.

[Thomas Belknap]

I forgot to mention something that is pretty important. A lot of software that does what this does is considered spyware. I don't see what this would be any different. I wonder if the people who installed the free version know what this does? I don't recall seeing it on the sales page but I could have missed it.

[leesr]

When I got my first sales letter promoting it I "sniffed" something fishy.

I googled, found a page 1 link to "digg" and posted this comment (and a "bury")

Digg - PPC Web Spy : Free Keyword Spy ? See What profitable keyword

Didn't do any good, too many "diggs" promoting it.

Originally Posted by Anna Johnson

Thanks for clarifying. Does it replace the first two listings or push them down?

Honestly, I've never paid attention. I would assume that it pushes them down.

Originally Posted by Anna Johnson

Paul M, marcanthony - thanks for explaining that. Hmmm... something tells me Google is not going to like PPC Spy...

Maybe... maybe not--I wouldn't know how Google sees it.

I referred this product to a small list of 100 people... about 20 of them actually took advantage of it.

I think that the tool is awesome. However, I must admit--I got it primarily for the keyword spy feature.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the affiliate link feature at all--considering that it was all explained up front--and I'm also given the option to turn it off.

Marc

[countonuspr]

I am certainly interested in the keyword spy feature as well. I am going to download it and try it out. It looks like an excellent free tool. I don't think it is something I would promote. I am anxious to see how the keyword spy tool works.

[dburk]

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

I forgot to mention something that is pretty important. A lot of software that does what this does is considered spyware. I don't see what this would be any different. I wonder if the people who installed the free version know what this does? I don't recall seeing it on the sales page but I could have missed it.

Hi Thomas,

You hit the nail on the head. This type of plugin is often referred to as spyware or malware and there is a billion dollar industry built around detecting and removing this type of software.

It appears to be using a MLM/affiliate marketing as it's attack vector, and like many virus/malware programs it relies on user behavor to spread it's infection.

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by dburk

Hi Thomas,

You hit the nail on the head. This type of plugin is often referred to as spyware or malware and there is a billion dollar industry built around detecting and removing this type of software.

It appears to be using a MLM/affiliate marketing as it's attack vector, and like many virus/malware programs it relies on user behavor to spread it's infection.

I did forget that it was mentioned, what the plugin does, after you signed up. I forgot and wanted to mention it to be fair.

[alex84]

The only ones that will get commission from PPC spy are those that got newbies to download the software, because they won't know that the first two spots give commissions to someone else unless they read it well.

Those that read how it works will just turn it on to use it's features, which is to look at different keywords. So it's just a MLM scheme to take advantage of inexperienced people.

Pretty shady if you ask me...

[Paul Myers]

A couple of questions...

Is it explained to the people who download the free product that the plug-in will change the results they see in searches, and that the top ones will be affiliate links chosen by the system, rather than natural serps chosen by Google's algorithms?

I could look, yes, and will. But I want to hear if people understood this clearly when they downloaded the free version, and weren't using the paid version. Not in text that's hidden, or after they sign up. Before that, and somewhat prominently.

Next question: Are the links that the program inserts in the search results marked separately and/or identified as being from the tool, or do they appear like the ones Google normally shows?

One thing is certain. I am not installing the tool on any of my machines. I don't trust anyone who would program something like this to stop at these points. Mind you, I'm not accusing them of having hidden features in the software. I'm only saying that these things raise serious questions for me that make me extremely cautious of anyone who'd create them.


Paul

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

A couple of questions...

Is it explained to the people who download the free product that the plug-in will change the results they see in searches, and that the top ones will be affiliate links chosen by the system, rather than natural serps chosen by Google's algorithyms?

I could look, yes, and will. But I want to hear if people understood this clearly when they downloaded the free version, and weren't using the paid version. Not in text that's hidden, or after they sign up. Before that, and somewhat prominently.

Next question: Are the links that the program inserts in the search results marked separately and/or identified as being from the tool, or do they appear like the ones Google normally shows?

One thing is certain. I am not installing the tool on any of my machines. I don't trust anyone who would program something like this to stop at these points. Mind you, I'm not accusing them of having hidden features in the software. I'm only saying that these things raise serious questions for me that make me extremely cautious of anyone who'd create them.


Paul

Hi Paul,

The video talking about the search manipulation is on the upsell page after you sign up. It is not on the sales page itself, just the upsell page.

No, the links look the same. You wouldn't know the difference.

[Paul Myers]

The addition of the affiliate links is included in the ALL CAPS section of the terms of service. The part that only the very experienced and the moderately paranoid usually bother reading.

I rather suspect that's what they're counting on. The majority not bothering, since it's free. A business model that depends on inexperience and ignorance is always distasteful to me.

They're almost certainly covered legally. I think it's way sneakier than I'd like to play it. I wouldn't touch the program for the other reasons previously mentioned, but at least the change is mentioned there somewhere.


Paul

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

The addition of the affiliate links is included in the ALL CAPS section of the terms of service. The part that only the very experienced and the moderately paranoid usually bother reading.

I rather suspect that's what they're counting on. The majority not bothering, since it's free. A business model that depends on inexperience and ignorance is always distasteful to me.

They're almost certainly covered legally. I think it's way sneakier than I'd like to play it. I wouldn't touch the program for the other reasons previously mentioned, but at least the change is mentioned there somewhere.


Paul

I don't think it will work the way they want. It would have been a lot better off with a straight commission for a product rather than all this stuff. I think they were trying to make it go viral. Instead, there are a lot of people who question their motives more than anything. Even if it is a great product, there will be a lot of people that will not use it.

Sometimes we are too smart for our own good.

[Paul Myers]

Thomas,

I don't know. I'm getting a lot of email about it. Some of it from people I wouldn't expect to be promoting things like this. Not to mention the "tell-a-friend" emails from people I don't know, to addresses that shouldn't be getting said emails.

It's an excellent bet the senders of those emails think I'm going to promote the thing, and that they'll get something as a result of that. The idea of making a profit off someone without them knowing it usually attracts folks with the MLM-lotto mentality. Magic Button types.

Viral it might be. I'm just not getting anywhere near it.


Paul

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Thomas,

I don't know. I'm getting a lot of email about it. Some of it from people I wouldn't expect to be promoting things like this. Not to mention the "tell-a-friend" emails from people I don't know, to addresses that shouldn't be getting said emails.

It's an excellent bet the senders of those emails think I'm going to promote the thing, and that they'll get something aa a result of that. The idea of making a profit off someone without them knowing it usually attracts folks with the MLM-lotto mentality. Magic Button types.

Viral it might be. I'm just not getting anywhere near it.


Paul

I got a lot of emails as well. I am not promoting this thing either. I did purchase the upsell and am using it. The platinum version gives out more keywords which is why I purchased it. I haven't decided if I like it or not. I need to test more.

I am sorry to hear about the promotions to your private email addresses.

It is leaving a bad taste in a lot of mouths. You can see it on this forum.

[sevenish]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

A couple of questions...

Is it explained to the people who download the free product that the plug-in will change the results they see in searches, and that the top ones will be affiliate links chosen by the system, rather than natural serps chosen by Google's algorithms?
Paul

Yes, it is. That's when I stopped the video and closed the window.

I was not understanding it much prior to grasping that fact. I'm not sure why it would be useful to someone like me who does not market to the IM crowds.

When I was in the music business I always had only "reference monitors" in my home so that I could listen to my mixes and productions as they would be heard by my audience. My monitors were good monitors, but not anything that would "enhance" the audience experience with anything much fancier than what a normal listener would have in their home.

If my work didn't pass "reference" for me (sound great in lowest common denominator circumstances), it wasn't good enough.

I wasn't mixing for consumers with inline equalizers or other such components to manipulate the bandwidth or frequency spectrum apart from what was originally produced. I was mixing for standard issue stereos, televisions and sound systems. I'm both an engineer and musician by trade, but esoterica never thrilled me as much as a damned great production.

I maintain in place similar mechanisms with SEs on most of my computers so that I can have a similar SE user experience as my target audience (notwithstanding my various and numerous SEO tools).

Somehow this product looked like something that would appeal to those who might:
1) forget that it's turned on and be amazed at their SE rank,
2) have a target audience of only MMO types.

Neither of the above apply to me.

[Paul Myers]

Thomas,

It is leaving a bad taste in a lot of mouths. You can see it on this forum.

Almost anything will do that, if it gets much attention.

My reason for concern with the added links isn't that they're bad by themselves. Just that, if people think they're natural results, they'll tend to carry whatever credibility Google's main search has with the user, rather than the user recognizing that they're effectively sponsored links.

It's all about clarity.


Paul

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Thomas,Almost anything will do that, if it gets much attention.

My reason for concern with the added links isn't that they're bad by themselves. Just that, if people think they're natural results, they'll tend to carry whatever credibility Google's main search has with the user, rather than the user recognizing that they're effectively sponsored links.

It's all about clarity.


Paul

It should be clear on the download page. That is where the video talking about the linking issues is described.

Personally, I am not quite sure what they were trying to do with this.

Paul Myers,

I started using PPC Web Spy, a week or so, after it was made available to the public. Initially and admittedly, the main selling point for me was that it looked cool... I got that feeling that I get when a new Blackberry comes out. You know, the feeling you get when you know that you are about to make an ill advised purchase...

My secondary, and last reason for getting it--was for the keyword spy feature.

Personally, I didn't put much thought into the search engine manipulation aspect of it much--Because the keyword feature was the selling point for me--However, being able to brand affiliate links in the top two positions was a pretty awesome concept...

Now, after using it the past two weeks--My focus isn't on the keyword feature anymore... nor the affiliate link branding.

There's another feature that I'm not sure is mentioned/emphasized on the sales page...

When you uncover someones keywords, you can hover over each keyword on the list and see what ads are being written for each keyword.

So now, I use the tool solely to analyze ad text...

Anyhow, if you haven't yet, I recommend that you download the free version... play with it a little

If you don't like it... get rid of it...

Marc

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by sevenish

Yes, it is. That's when I stopped the video and closed the window.

I was not understanding it much prior to grasping that fact. I'm not sure why it would be useful to someone like me who does not market to the IM crowds.

I don't see it working well within the IM niche either.

[Martin.Avis]

Can someone please post a screenshot to show what the added links look like?

Martin

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by marcanthony

There's another feature that I'm not sure is mentioned/emphasized on the sales page...

Marc

Damn Marc, I didn't know that until now. I like that a lot.

Thanks for letting me know.

[Anna Johnson]

Folks, keep in mind there are other tools that will tell you what keywords your competitors are bidding on. And they don't have an 'adware' component.

I'm not going to list them here, but you can do a search on Google. Of course, if you're using PPC Web Spy when you search just keep in mind that the top 2 results may not be 'as rated by Google'

I'm with Paul Myers on this one. I don't like plugins that don't 'give it to me straight'. And it just leaves me wondering what else is going on beneath the hood that I don't know about.

It also concerns me that having created an account, I can't delete it. My email is 'read only' which means I can't remove it from the PPC Web Spy database. (I am not talking about the mailing list; I'm talking about the PPC Web Spy membership). If I am wrong on this point or someone can show me how to remove my account, please share.

[Paul Myers]

Marc,

There's no way I'm installing something like that. There are some tricks that hit my alarm buttons real hard, and changing links like this one does is the newest one. It's not totally kept from the end user, but it's not disclosed conspicuously enough for me to be comfortable that there's not other stuff going on in the background.

I had a machine for testing questionable stuff, which never saw data I'd mind getting out, but that's got other uses these days.


Paul

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Marc,

There's no way I'm installing something like that. There are some tricks that hit my alarm buttons real hard, and changing links like this one does is the newest one. It's not totally kept from the end user, but it's not disclosed conspicuously enough for me to be comfortable that there's not other stuff going on in the background.

Paul

I hear you!

It seemed like you wanted a little more info on it... I thought I'd share.

I only suggested downloading it--so you could see, first hand, how it really works...

That's all!

[Paul Myers]

Marc,

No problem. I didn't take it as anything but a helpful suggestion. I'm sure it's useful, as far as what you can see it doing. It's what it might be doing without you seeing it that's a concern.

I don't think it's likely that there's anything hidden there. Just more risky than I want to be with software from someone I don't know Really Well.


Paul

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Marc,

It's what it might be doing without you seeing it that's a concern.

Paul

I'm curious...

What might it be doing?

You're making me think that something is going over my head...

[Paul Myers]

Marc,

What might it be doing?

Anything.

The possibilities go from the extreme, like stealing data and giving people access to your computer, to less dangerous (but still significant) stuff, like messing with affiliate codes in other links.

It's very probably not doing anything bad at all, other than the stated stuff, which is just questionable.

Call me paranoid. Some triggers are deal-breakers for me.


Paul

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Marc,Anything.

Call me paranoid. Some triggers are deal-breakers for me.


Paul

Understood!

I asked the question because I've noticed similar skepticism from others...

More often than not, those same triggers fire with me as well...

However, this time, I didn't get that feeling!

Thanks

[Paul Myers]

Marc,

More often than not, those same triggers fire with me as well...

However, this time, I didn't get that feeling!

You're probably right, other than the stuff that's stated in the terms of service. A lot of people won't have a problem with those things.

Brad Callen isn't exactly famous for being sneaky or doing nasty stuff like that. He's got a good rep, as far as I've heard.


Paul

[sushitune]

I downloaded this because it came from Brad Callen. After about 30 minutes of fiddling around with it, I purchased the platinum and even sent out a letter (shamefully to my list). The MLM nature of this thing should have been the red flag, but the sales pitch was mesmerizing. I then went to the PPC Web Spy forum and began to notice that buyers were bitching and suspicious about the specious claims. Immediately I had enough buyer's remorse that I asked for a refund. Their service desk said they would honor that within 5~10 working days. Greed can distract us all from true north.

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

I forgot to mention something that is pretty important. A lot of software that does what this does is considered spyware. I don't see what this would be any different. I wonder if the people who installed the free version know what this does? I don't recall seeing it on the sales page but I could have missed it.

I downloaded the free version to test out and was aware after watching the
videos what it does in regards to placed affiliate links while turned on.

I un-installed it after a few days for the very reason Thomas mentioned above.
This type of thing feels to much like adware or spyware with the only difference
being we know the source/owner. I have no idea what It could be doing on the
back end. Since it was sitting in my browser 24/7, It's possible it could be also
collecting data from me and every other IMer who downloaded.


Paul Myers,

Next question: Are the links that the program inserts in the search results
marked separately and/or identified as being from the tool, or do they appear like
the ones Google normally shows?

The top results the tool inserts appear as normal results, unless you already
know why they are there....you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

A few weeks ago another member here asked if big G had become an Amazon
affiliate, since the top one or two results were Amazon affiliate links. Turns out
he just forgot to turn off PPC spy, so they do blend into the normal results well.






-paul

[Anna Johnson]

The 'among other functions' raises another red flag for me:

USER AND LICENSEE UNDERTAND AND ACKNOWLEDGE, THAT THEIR USE OF THE LICENSED SOFTWARE, AMONG OTHER FUNCTIONS, ADDS TWO (2) NEW GOOGLE LISTINGS TO THE NUMBER ONE (1) AND NUMBER TWO (2) SEARCH ENGINE POSITIONS, IN THE FORM OF AFFILIATE LINKS. USER AND LICENSEE, BY THEIR USE OF THE SOFTWARE, EXPRESSLY GIVE THEIR PERMISSION AND ACCEPTANCE FOR THIS FUNCTION OF THE SOFTWARE.

And right beneath that:

USER AND LICENSEE UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT COMPANY RESERVES THE RIGHT TO COMPILE STATISTICS AND/OR SEARCH DATA FROM THE FREE/STANDARD VERSION OF THE SOFTWARE BUT NOT SPECIFIC IDENTIFYING USER DATA.

Originally Posted by Anna Johnson

The 'among other functions' raises another red flag for me:

USER AND LICENSEE UNDERTAND AND ACKNOWLEDGE, THAT THEIR USE OF THE LICENSED SOFTWARE, AMONG OTHER FUNCTIONS, ADDS TWO (2) NEW GOOGLE LISTINGS TO THE NUMBER ONE (1) AND NUMBER TWO (2) SEARCH ENGINE POSITIONS, IN THE FORM OF AFFILIATE LINKS. USER AND LICENSEE, BY THEIR USE OF THE SOFTWARE, EXPRESSLY GIVE THEIR PERMISSION AND ACCEPTANCE FOR THIS FUNCTION OF THE SOFTWARE.

And right beneath that:

USER AND LICENSEE UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT COMPANY RESERVES THE RIGHT TO COMPILE STATISTICS AND/OR SEARCH DATA FROM THE FREE/STANDARD VERSION OF THE SOFTWARE BUT NOT SPECIFIC IDENTIFYING USER DATA.

Anna,

Why do these things raise red flags with you?

I don't understand why this is a problem...

Marc

p.s. please don't mistake my tone as being sarcastic.

[Anna Johnson]

Hi Marc,

These terms raise three questions in my mind. What are the 'other functions' in question? (And indicates there may well be other functions). What kind of statistical and search data is being compiled? And, thirdly, do I really want statistics and search data to be compiled based on my use of the plugin?

I have no objection to these terms per se. I've seen similar terms many times before and most websites use a variation of the second. (Being a lawyer I've also written similar). But given the circumstances that led me to reviewing the terms (i.e. the fact that the addition of the 2 affiliate links is never made clear in the sales copy), they just raise questions for me.

Others may not see a problem and that's fine. Each to his/her own.

Originally Posted by Anna Johnson

Hi Marc,

These terms raise three questions in my mind. What are the 'other functions' in question? (And indicates there may well be other functions). What kind of statistical and search data is being compiled? And, thirdly, do I really want statistics and search data to be compiled based on my use of the plugin?

I gotcha...

Thanks Anna

[Tony M.]

I think it's pretty funny if you look at it this way :
A bunch of us just happily installed a piece of software that OPENLY labels itself as a "web spy"...
And then it turns out that the software lives up to its name and the shoe is on the other foot.

I feel a little dumb for installing it in the first place, but it is still funny.

[dotcomsecretsonline]

Yes I installed the web spy software too and played around with it and after I read that so many people didn't trust the software I too uninstalled it.

It really is a shame that this software has got so many people uninstalling it, it could have been a great piece of kit for us marketers. But I got wiry and got rid of it.

[joel dawson]

thanx for the tips guys i also was wondering about ppc spy