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Why Developers Shouldn't Sell Software...

by packerfan
20 replies
There's a lesson to be learned, but I need to rant first. I've spent two days setting up a membership site that literally should take less than 15 minutes. And here's why...

The one's I used (2) are both sold by developers. What's that mean. It means they think like developers not users. So they use stupid words no one understands, and make things super complicated when they don't need to be.

So... If you're a developer stop selling software... UNLESS you're going to have real people use it first and give you actual feedback that matters. /rant

After being eyeballs deep in frustration for 2 days I did learn a lesson in all of this... A lot of us teach in one way or another. Things and terms that are intuitive to us might not be to our audience.

So as a result I sent some questions to my list regarding a few different things, and man am I glad I did.

Had I gone down my intended path (what I thought people wanted) I would just wasted time. Now I know exactly what they want, I can tailor everything to their needs, etc.

Anyway, Developers... we know you're smarter than us. Stop trying to act like it by using stupid words like API, IPN, and a bunch of other stuff that no one understands.

Just say, we use some code to talk to paypal. You need to do this, this, and this to get it working. If you want the technical details click here for more info...

Is it that freakin hard? /rant again
#developers #sell #software
  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    Lmao, reminds me when I use to in house contruction, those damn architects lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sillysoft
      I have been a developer for over 10 years, not on the side I mean actually working full time for companies. Always tough trying to communicate how things work, but everyone has these issues. For me its with mechanics, OK just tell me how much its going to cost as I don't understand the inner workings of an engine. heh.
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      • Profile picture of the author packerfan
        Originally Posted by Sillysoft View Post

        I have been a developer for over 10 years, not on the side I mean actually working full time for companies. Always tough trying to communicate how things work, but everyone has these issues. For me its with mechanics, OK just tell me how much its going to cost as I don't understand the inner workings of an engine. heh.
        On a scale of 1-10 my tech knowledge is probably like a 6 or 7. I am way more advanced than the average user. I understand everything they're saying. My point is their brain doesn't work like a normal human beings.

        They think 12,500 options is great. When in reality I just want "enter this this and this, hit this, and poof you're done.

        On one the plugins (very high priced and highly recommended) I literally spent over 14 hours and did not it get it to do what I wanted. So I returned it.

        The second one, a free plugin. Took me like 6 and is now set up.

        But goodness, I needed very basic functions. If I needed advanced features, I don't what I would have done.

        My other lesson. Next time I need a membership site set up I'm freaking hiring someone to do it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Sillysoft
          Originally Posted by packerfan View Post

          On a scale of 1-10 my tech knowledge is probably like a 6 or 7. I am way more advanced than the average user. I understand everything they're saying. My point is their brain doesn't work like a normal human beings.

          They think 12,500 options is great. When in reality I just want "enter this this and this, hit this, and poof you're done.

          On one the plugins (very high priced and highly recommended) I literally spent over 14 hours and did not it get it to do what I wanted. So I returned it.

          The second one, a free plugin. Took me like 6 and is now set up.

          But goodness, I needed very basic functions. If I needed advanced features, I don't what I would have done.

          My other lesson. Next time I need a membership site set up I'm freaking hiring someone to do it.
          I call it the "what if" factor. When developing I sometimes get caught with thinking what if this happens, or what if the end user wants this. So what was once an easy project turns into a very complicated project with a lot of options because we are trying to cover all the "what ifs".

          If you need help with anything let me know, I do web development with php/mysql.
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          • Profile picture of the author packerfan
            Originally Posted by Sillysoft View Post

            I call it the "what if" factor. When developing I sometimes get caught with thinking what if this happens, or what if the end user wants this. So what was once an easy project turns into a very complicated project with a lot of options because we are trying to cover all the "what ifs".

            If you need help with anything let me know, I do web development with php/mysql.
            It's easy to see how it happens. I mean I'm having some software developed right now. And literally everyday I think of something new that I want in it. So my developer runs off and puts in the whiz bang feature. Then when I'm testing like 3 days later I haven't even tested the function.

            I think that's what happens on these complex projects. Try to be everything to everyone, and end up making everyone's life hell.
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          • Profile picture of the author AndyBlackSEO
            Originally Posted by Sillysoft View Post

            I call it the "what if" factor. When developing I sometimes get caught with thinking what if this happens, or what if the end user wants this. So what was once an easy project turns into a very complicated project with a lot of options because we are trying to cover all the "what ifs".

            If you need help with anything let me know, I do web development with php/mysql.
            Yes... That is called feature creeping. It is best to outline the app prior to developing it but sometimes you get the best ideas for it mid-development.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    The same applies to web design.

    Ive seen a huge amount of websites that were developed by technical gurus, only to rank nowhere in the search results.

    AJAX, VBScript, PHP and MySQL, etc dont mean much in this business.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sillysoft
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      The same applies to web design.

      Ive seen a huge amount of websites that were developed by technical gurus, only to rank nowhere in the search results.

      AJAX, VBScript, PHP and MySQL, etc dont mean much in this business.
      I disagree to an extent, php/mysql/ajax are used a lot in this business. Wordpress is a good example. Tech guys know how to build things, doesnt mean they are SEO experts or IM experts. I can setup servers from scratch including building it, installing all the software, hardening it, managing it etc and build really useful tools. But damn if I know how to get a site to rank high in SERPS.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
        Originally Posted by Sillysoft View Post

        I disagree to an extent, php/mysql/ajax are used a lot in this business. Wordpress is a good example. Tech guys know how to build things, doesnt mean they are SEO experts or IM experts. I can setup servers from scratch including building it, installing all the software, hardening it, managing it etc and build really useful tools. But damn if I know how to get a site to rank high in SERPS.
        I spoke with an established internet marketer once who was making 7 figures a year, and he said to me ..."Internet marketers make millions, web designers make what's left..."

        I got laughed at once by a bunch of women at an internet marketing seminar when I told them I was a web developer. They were all making over $5,000+ a month each, and didn't even know what HTML stood for. I had 10 years worth of web design experience and couldnt make a dollar.

        You can either impress people with technical jargon, or you can make money.
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        • Profile picture of the author packerfan
          Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

          I spoke with an established internet marketer once who was making 7 figures a year, and he said to me ..."Internet marketers make millions, web designers make what's left..."

          I got laughed at once by a bunch of women at an internet marketing seminar when I told them I was a web developer. They were all making over $5,000+ a month each, and didn't even know what HTML stood for. I had 10 years worth of web design experience and couldnt make a dollar.

          You can either impress people with technical jargon, or you can make money.
          There's no doubt the money is in the selling, not the development. Developers a commodity, unless you are talking about super complex applications and then MAYBE you'd need a top guy. But I can have anyone on Odesk write me a PHP script that will do things I didn't even know were possible for a couple hundred bucks.

          It's just a matter of finding a market, having a position, delivering a message, selling, and supporting.

          Anyway...
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        • Profile picture of the author Sillysoft
          Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

          I spoke with an established internet marketer once who was making 7 figures a year, and he said to me ..."Internet marketers make millions, web designers make what's left..."

          I got laughed at once by a bunch of women at an internet marketing seminar when I told them I was a web developer. They were all making over $5,000+ a month each, and didn't even know what HTML stood for. I had 10 years worth of web design experience and couldnt make a dollar.

          You can either impress people with technical jargon, or you can make money.
          Well different people have different skill sets. Without developers you wouldn't be making any money, but its all relative.

          I would like to note that as a developer I make 6 figures a year. However since I stumbled upon creating my own site on the side and now make over a grand a month on just adsense revenue while doing little management on the site, I been hooked ever since trying to duplicate my success with building out another site.
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          • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
            Originally Posted by Sillysoft View Post

            However since I stumbled upon creating my own site on the side and now make over a grand a month on just adsense revenue while doing little management on the site, I been hooked ever since trying to duplicate my success with building out another site.
            Aha!

            So you're investing more of your focus towards becoming an internet marketer then huh?

            Instead of a "developer"
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            • Profile picture of the author Sillysoft
              Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

              Aha!

              So you're investing more of your focus towards becoming an internet marketer then huh?

              Instead of a "developer"
              Hmm.. I guess your right, tushay!
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    • Profile picture of the author packerfan
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      The same applies to web design.

      Ive seen a huge amount of websites that were developed by technical gurus, only to rank nowhere in the search results.

      AJAX, VBScript, PHP and MySQL, etc dont mean much in this business.
      Yeah, good point. I mean all those things have a purpose. But just to use them because they exist, obviously doesn't help.

      That's why I'm really hesitant to develop designers. If I could find one that made really functional, decent looking pages, I'd probably hire one full time. But they all want to be artists. I just some freakin buttons, a few images that aren't stolen, some links, and some words.

      So I just hack my way around thesis and waste more time than I care to think about.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Originally Posted by packerfan View Post

    Anyway, Developers... we know you're smarter than us. Stop trying to act like it by using stupid words like API, IPN, and a bunch of other stuff that no one understands.

    Just say, we use some code to talk to paypal. You need to do this, this, and this to get it working. If you want the technical details click here for more info...

    Is it that freakin hard? /rant again

    Well, if you want the help that PayPal can give you for setting up payments systems, you will need to know the words API and IPN to get to the right set of information inside PayPal to get your payment systems set up.

    Those developers were actually doing you a favor by not creating other words that had no relationship to what you was trying to do.

    And we folks who program for the Internet understood intuitively what the forum programmers were talking about, without us looking at your site for hours trying to figure out what the hell you are talking about.

    /rant
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    • Profile picture of the author packerfan
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      Well, if you want the help that PayPal can give you for setting up payments systems, you will need to know the words API and IPN to get to the right set of information inside PayPal to get your payment systems set up.

      Those developers were actually doing you a favor by not creating other words that had no relationship to what you was trying to do.

      And we folks who program for the Internet understood intuitively what the forum programmers were talking about, without us looking at your site for hours trying to figure out what the hell you are talking about.

      /rant
      No, I don't need to know what an API is or an IPN, or a PHP script, or HTML, or CSS or any of that. All the system has to do is say go here, get this number, and put it here. If you want to know why, then read here for more info.

      I know all about "programming for the internet" and am in the process of having 3 PHP scripts written, and a scraper. So I'm no idiot when it comes to the "technical stuff".

      Like I said, I know a developer is smarter than me, don't show it to me in your software.

      Since you're a writer, Bill, I'd use this analogy...

      You write an awesome article... But don't take the time to edit it. So it's 800 words longer than it needs to be. Still gets the job done, but not as well if you it's properly edited.

      Guess that's all for now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
    What I started doing was putting out both a "quick start guide" and a "users manual" for each product I develop...

    Cut down on tech support big time.

    The "quick start guide" just walks you through a basic install. Do this, do that , do this. You are up and running.

    The "users manual" has all the technical details and advance stuff.

    Works well.

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    • Profile picture of the author packerfan
      Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant View Post

      What I started doing was putting out both a "quick start guide" and a "users manual" for each product I develop...

      Cut down on tech support big time.

      The "quick start guide" just walks you through a basic install. Do this, do that , do this. You are up and running.

      The "users manual" has all the technical details and advance stuff.

      Works well.

      Re's
      Rob

      Perfect! 90% of people probably only need the base functionality. For the other 10% you've given them the resources they need. I wish more were like you!
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  • Profile picture of the author automaton
    I am a developer selling software and for the most part I agree, the software should be made easy to use, to understand and with a small learning curve.
    But also it would be only to the benefit of the user if he would take a little time to find out some more...for example if I have in my app text boxes with such "stupid words" like API key for decaptcher or deathbycaptcha that you have just to fill in to get automatic captcha solving, I don't think you wouldn't miss on the feature because it's "complicated" and you don't have a few seconds to spare to find out what an API is. Solving captchas manually would take much more time then doing a little googling
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  • Profile picture of the author minion
    I understand what you mean - often developers are so used to thinking like that, that we forget that other people don't understand half of what we say.
    The use of the words "API" etc (usually) have nothing to do with proving how smart we are - it's about reusing common terms that other programmers understand. An API is meant to be for programmers who want to interact with other applications.
    But - if it's a feature intended to be used for an end-user or admin, then of course there should be some kind of explanation or guide showing you how to use it, or have it simplified.

    I think the best thing to ask for it explicitly in future projects. A lot of developers will take as many shortcuts as possible, and that includes documentation and usability.. I don't think it's about being smart - i think its about being lazy.
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