They all say self-hosted email is the devil. Is it really?

41 replies
Does anyone have cold-hard facts...not opinions...concerning the use of self-hosted email and autoresponder scripts? If so...please share.

But please...only facts...data...not opinion, perspective, viewpoints, preferences...

I'm looking at Autoresponse Plus on a dedicated server, with mail run through an SMTP service. Need valid stats before I pull the trigger.
#autoresponders #devil #email #selfhosted
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Fact: If you get enough complaints, most hosts don't care if the mail is 100% confirmed opt-in. They'll shut it down.

    Fact: If you get no complaints at all, most hosts don't care about where the address came from. (This excludes responsible list hosts, who want to know the provenance before they allow the mail to be sent.)

    Fact: Sending to large enough lists from a shared hosting account can get that account closed, regardless of complaint levels. It's a resource usage issue.

    Fact: Failure to promptly remove dead addresses or addresses which generate spam complaints can get you blocked at many email receiving systems.

    I have systems to send mail through an ESP (Aweber), my own server (Autoresponse Plus), and my desktop machine (WorldMerge). They all have pluses and minuses. Which is best for you depends a lot on how you generate subscribers, how much mail you send, and the type of mail you send.

    Now, if you want to give specifics, we may be able to give you a better idea. Just asking as a blind question, with no details and no useful info, makes the question impossible to answer in any definitive form.


    Paul
    Signature
    .
    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5476418].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author explorer976
      Hi Paul,

      I have just bought autoresponse plus but didnt realise that theu promote some other service provider to install the script on the server. I am trying to do it on my own. Hope I can do it successfully.

      You mentioned autoresponse forum, could you please let me know the link to it?

      Thanks
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Fact: If you get enough complaints, most hosts don't care if the mail is 100% confirmed opt-in. They'll shut it down.

      Fact: If you get no complaints at all, most hosts don't care about where the address came from. (This excludes responsible list hosts, who want to know the provenance before they allow the mail to be sent.)

      Fact: Sending to large enough lists from a shared hosting account can get that account closed, regardless of complaint levels. It's a resource usage issue.

      Fact: Failure to promptly remove dead addresses or addresses which generate spam complaints can get you blocked at many email receiving systems.

      I have systems to send mail through an ESP (Aweber), my own server (Autoresponse Plus), and my desktop machine (WorldMerge). They all have pluses and minuses. Which is best for you depends a lot on how you generate subscribers, how much mail you send, and the type of mail you send.

      Now, if you want to give specifics, we may be able to give you a better idea. Just asking as a blind question, with no details and no useful info, makes the question impossible to answer in any definitive form.


      Paul
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5845258].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author myob
        I have been using self-hosted software for many years (currently ARP) on a dedicated server and smtp.com. The primary reason is because my lists are so huge, and at a certain price point it really is cost-effective. However, almost any commercial email provider may be more than adequate for general use, especially for less experienced marketers. Responsible marketing (including a dedicated server) with very prominent unsubscribe options is key no matter what self-hosting platform you use.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5845648].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jaypoole
    Have used quite a lot of email services - self hosted and paid for.. For me the main things I look for is ease of setting up a new auto-responder. List management features for keeping your list clean. High deliverability. Good tracking and statistics.

    Not sure what I can say in terms of facts about my experiences unless you want me to share my open rates etc. These ary depending on what I've sent out and so this is highly subjective based on the time of day/emai ltitle etc.

    In terms of self-hosted then I am using auto response plus - and eagerly awaiting the latest version although it's been a couple of years in coming.. The current long standing version is a real steady script that takes a little reading through the user manual (which is very comprehensive) to set things up but it has a lot of users so there is user forums to fall back on. I've only just started using it but have given it a lot of exercise recently as I wanted to see the quality because when the next version of Auto Response Plus is available (which is any week now - see later) then I wanted to test drive the previous version due to wanting to change from what I was using.

    It's working well for me with list management features which is what I'm very interested in - I think that one of the biggest secrets of having a responsive list is to make sure people are moved from one list to another based on trigger events, and once moved are then removed from previous lists as necessary.

    I've also used omnistar mailer - a lot. That was fairly easy to set up but has some bugs that are very annoying. The code seems very clumsy and didn't seem to work as I wanted wrt to list management i.e. the option of removing someone from one list when they added to another. For this one reason I ended up using someone from odesk to try to build a unique PHP script to get that feature working properly - it was near impossible because of the odd way that the database and it's table had been built. The version I bought has been updated since I bought but I didn't get the updated script.When I found the issue with the list management feature (that didn't seem to work as advertised on their web pages) they wanted 50% of the initial licence price for extended support to investigate the issue as it was a couple of months after the 12 months support. This was fair enough but I asked that if I paid that out and it was proven that this feature didn't work that I could then have the money back as it seemed to be a broken feature - but they weren't going for that.

    I wasn't prepared to pay out for half of the original license fee just to be told that what I wanted to do wasn't possible. So went for an odesk developer who spent some hours debigging things who told me that in his opinion this feature couldn't never work the way it seemed to be described. If anyone reading this has ever managed to use omnistar and remove someone from one list when you add them to another I'd love to hear from you.

    In terms of deliverability then both seem excellent because they are coming from a good domain (using 1&1 hosting) and the leads are very qualified and I get zero complaints. There again I've not been emailing out 1000s of emails each time. I use an autoresponder on initial sign-up and then at specific certain time intervals following sign-up. I don't use it much for campaigns.

    If I was looking for an email campaign sender then I'd be interested in a new product that is being released soon from Dax Aurand. This will make the overall cost of delivering an email to be a mere fraction of what you'd pay on hosted service providers, but still having great deliverability. No plans for it to be used as an autoresponder though.

    I've looked at interspire many times but the cost has always kept me away but it certainly looks like it can do a good job.

    Have also toyed with a couple of what seemed to be generic scripts that may even be the same but branded slightly differently. Sorry that's opinion..!
    Signature
    arpReach user?
    Join us in the arpReach Moguls Facebook Group
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5476571].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Jay,

      I went for the discounted upgrade for AutoResponse Plus (soon to be called arpReach) as soon as I got the email on it from Neil. I've been waiting for the PHP version since 2008.

      The upgrade to PHP and the 10 domain license was worth it, even without knowing what the mysterious new social media features are.

      Last I heard, it looks like a couple of weeks or so yet.


      Paul
      Signature
      .
      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5476615].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author jaypoole
        I wrote to Neil before Christmas (on Dec 12th) about when ARP3 would be available

        He wrote "At this moment, we are looking at releasing the first stable commercial
        release in mid January."

        So any day..

        I have been so impressed with ARP though that I have taken out the extra lifetime support option. After my experience with omnistar and because it was worth it since it gives me an additional 10 domain licenses I can use on top of the 10 I already had..
        Signature
        arpReach user?
        Join us in the arpReach Moguls Facebook Group
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5476685].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jaypoole
    Sorry I should clarify that I've paid for the lifetime support option of ARP or arpReach before I've even seen or used this new version. That shows you the faith I have in Neil I guess.!
    Signature
    arpReach user?
    Join us in the arpReach Moguls Facebook Group
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5476690].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Jay,
      Sorry I should clarify that I've paid for the lifetime support option of ARP or arpReach before I've even seen or used this new version. That shows you the faith I have in Neil I guess.!
      Same here.

      A: It's Neil.

      B: It's ARP.

      C: I hate annual support/upgrade licenses. Not that I really need support all that often for most things, but the "forever" upgrades is big. And ARP has been around long enough that it actually means something.

      I hadn't noticed that the 10 licenses was "additional." I wonder how many I have now? When I first bought ARP it was, I think, a 5-site license. That was in 2008, though.


      Paul
      Signature
      .
      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5476802].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author jaypoole
        Well I have 20 licenses in total now - which for the overall price of $344 that I paid for the original 10 licenses ($197) plus lifetime extension with extra 10 licenses ($147) I think is a great deal.

        In comparison interspire is $1795 for a 20 user license..
        Signature
        arpReach user?
        Join us in the arpReach Moguls Facebook Group
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5476861].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Jay,
          In comparison interspire is $1795 for a 20 user license..
          I could be wrong on this, as I'm going from memory, but I seem to recall the new version will have a multi-user option. Don't quote me on that, but it would be cool.

          There are a couple of people I'd trust to run lists off one of my servers. Not one I use for anything important, but still...


          Paul
          Signature
          .
          Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5476955].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Either I missed this before, or it was added after we asked for more specifics. Either way...
            I'm looking at Autoresponse Plus on a dedicated server, with mail run through an SMTP service. Need valid stats before I pull the trigger.
            There are still specific things that can affect whether this is a "best choice" option. Might be, might not.

            The software is solid. No issues there.

            If you're using an external service like smtp.com, you can send a lot of mail, pretty bloody quickly. You don't want to push it too far, though, or some of the larger sites (notably Yahoo) will defer your mail during their peak load times.

            I don't know if smtp.com has any facilities for getting and relaying/removing spam complaints through the FBLs (feedback loops) of the big providers who offer them. Ask them about that. It's important if you're sending to lists of any serious size.

            Anyone here know the answer to that one?

            If you are building the list from scratch, it's a good idea to talk to your host and make sure you're clear on their policies for sending mail from dedicated servers.

            If you're importing the list from an existing source, it's an account survival-level Good Idea to have that discussion with them.

            Tips for increasing initial open rates and reducing spam complaints:

            1: Be very clear on what the subscriber will be getting once they give you their email address. Do not assume that "Enter email here and get this cool freebie" will be understood as asking for a subscription. It may seem obvious to you, but it's not to everyone.

            2: Be clear on the type of mail they'll be receiving, and how often they'll get it. If it's variable, tell them that. I have one list (all Warrior members) who were told before subscribing that I might even send them coupons for breakfast cereal if the mood struck.

            Yes, it's silly. Still, the point was clear: It's anything goes. They knew that going in. They also knew the unsubscribe link would work, because it's an Aweber-hosted list.

            If you promise them mail on tuning maracas, do not send them ads for eyebrow plucking machines. They'll hit the "Spam" button so fast, it will make your hat spin.

            3: Maintain proper list hygiene. When an address bounces as "bad address" (usually 550), remove it from your list. If an address bounces for any reason 3 times within a 10 day period, remove it from the list.

            Do not recontact unsubscribes. Do not send more than one confirmation email, if you choose to go with confirmed opt-in.

            4: If you offer a free bonus for signing up, confirmed opt-in is a Very Good Idea. Otherwise, you're going to get a ton of fake addresses from people who think the freebie comes right after signing up, instead of in an email delivered to the address they gave. And some of those fake addresses will be deliverable. The rest will count against you as undeliverables at whatever service hosts them.

            Too high a percentage of undeliverable emails at any given service can get you blocked there, and some will hurt your IP reputation at a lot of other services. (See #3.)

            5: Back up your database at least weekly. Keep a copy of that backup on your hard drive, and another offsite.

            6: Do not try to hide the unsubscribe link by putting a lot of blank lines between the content and the unsubscribe. Not only will that annoy anyone who wants to unsubscribe, some hosts will treat it as a sign of sneaky mailing practices and consider it in case of complaints.

            7. Make sure your server has enough capacity during sending to accept bounces as they're generated, and to process unsubscribes while still delivering mail. If you overrun either of those functions by pushing the server too hard, you will eventually run into trouble.

            Those are the absolute basics. Anything else is pretty much situational. The main key is to make sure people have expectations when signing up which are met when they receive the email. Or when they ask to stop receiving it.


            Paul
            Signature
            .
            Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5477309].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jburke81
    I use aweber hosting and a self hosted emailer. I have found that in time spam complaints do happen and when they do my hosted emailer starts going to spam. In my experience it is worth it to pay for an email management system like gvo or aweber. They have teams dedicated to keeping deliverablity high. And I have used and still use both for different uses.

    That is my 2 cents. Hope it helps.
    Signature

    Do not use affiliate links in signatures!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5476847].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Wealth Mentor
    Good stuff, guys. I really appreciate all the help on this.

    My situation is this...my daughter is an MLM "guru". She's the #1 or #2 earner in a large international MLM company. She has built a list of 284,000 email addresses in about 30 months. They were all being hosted on the MLM company servers, in her business "back office".

    We are moving her list to a mail server and auto responder we control, as their list maintenance practices are elementary, at best. I recently had the list scrubbed, and ended up with about 214,00 clean emails.

    We are doing this because we are now promoting her MLM coaching business, her speaking appearances, her 2 books, etc., which are not directly related to the MLM company.

    The next step is to settle on a mail and auto responder service or software, then validate the emails by mailing to small batches.

    I have seen ARP come up several times in this thread, as well as in many others. The consensus is that it is a solid product, however...I can't seem to establish communications with them. Have sent pre-purchase questions on 3 occasions, with no responses at all. If anyone can help me get through, that would be great.

    Any other thoughts or suggestions you have on how we can make this process successful, with the least amount of hassles would be appreciated. Likewise for any suggestions on how you would go about it for yourself.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5481872].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Sorry. I lost this thread in the shuffle...
      I have seen ARP come up several times in this thread, as well as in many others. The consensus is that it is a solid product, however...I can't seem to establish communications with them. Have sent pre-purchase questions on 3 occasions, with no responses at all. If anyone can help me get through, that would be great.
      Neil is head-down, working on the new release of ARP (arpReach), which is expected to be a very big upgrade to an already solid product. He's uncharacteristically slow in replying to email lately because of that.

      Now, some issues to be very careful with:

      Many web hosts will look at any email about MLM suspiciously. That is because so many people get into MLM and spam world+dog. Your daughter will be familiar with the problem: They think anyone who gets within 3 feet of them is a prospect.

      That is one reason you see so little discussion of MLM here. A lot of people hate it, because so many people with no business sense start out buying the hype, then get all excited and lose their sense of manners. After that, they get desperate, trying to hang on to the dream, despite the fact that they don't have the skills to make it real.

      Desperate people often do stupid things. Web hosts and postmasters at receiving systems have seen so much of that from the MLM crowd that they tend to block first and ask questions never.

      That's going to be exacerbated if you don't have real proof of where all those addresses came from. And believe it, if you haven't emailed those people in a while, you are going to get complaints, and your host is going to ask for that proof. If you're lucky and they don't just shut you down.

      Keep regular (as in, every day) updates of your database. Make sure all unsubscribes are kept out, and you have a record of them all to remove them from the list if you have to change hosts. And get used to the idea that you WILL end up getting bounced from one or more web hosts until that list is well and truly cleaned of people who no longer want to hear from you.

      It may not be spam in the true sense, but that won't stop people from complaining. Especially the folks who have passed the desperation stage and decided MLM is all a scam.

      In case you haven't yet figured it out, what you're planning to do is an iffy proposition, at best. And that's assuming these folks actually gave you those addresses with the real intent that you use them for future contacts. If they were not very clear on that, you may well be spamming for real. That would be a bad road to travel.

      I'm assuming they wanted future contact.

      Before getting into specifics about the best way to re-introduce your daughter, I have to ask... How were the addresses gathered?


      Paul
      Signature
      .
      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5514076].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    Hey guys

    My ears felt a little hot today and I thought of the Warrior forum for some reason. It looks like those ears were trying to tell me something!

    Apologies for being away for so long but my head has been buried in code as Paul said. My wife told me that delivering several children was hard work. Pah! What does she know?

    Anyway, this is just a fleeting visit because we have a MASSIVE couple of weeks coming up with the launch (to AutoResponse Plus users only) on Monday 19th and to new people a couple of weeks (approximately) later.

    We have partnered with a company who are managing the whole thing from now on while I concentrate solely on development strategy with a team of developers.

    The fantastic news is that our partners eat, sleep and breathe email deliverability and have a vast amount of experience in that area. As you would expect, arpReach is designed to take full advantage of that expertise.

    Personally, my sole role from now on is to focus on aggressive plans for delivering cutting edge functionality and further maximising deliverability in arpReach, whether by email or other means.

    For those who don't know, we lost 2 years of development because our new version (called ARP4 at the time) was developed as an Flash application using a platform called Adobe Flex (now Flash Builder). And what did a certain smart phone company do? They scrapped support for Flash on their smart phones and tablets. So it was back to the drawing board and arpReach is the result which is 100% PHP and jQuery (fancy Javascript) meaning it runs in a browser on any platform.

    So there you have it. If you have any questions about arpReach, hop onto Twitter (see sig) where they will be happy to help you.

    Cheers,

    Neil
    Signature

    Easy email marketing automation without moving your lists.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5845886].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
      EDIT: trying to contact Neil directly, as Paul suggested below.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5964576].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Ralph,

    I suspect you'll need to email Neil directly on this. Wasn't his thread, and he doesn't visit here as often as he used to.


    Paul
    Signature
    .
    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5964615].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Indelible
    The new ARPReach is pretty amazing. I've been playing with it now for a week, I've not had any trouble replacing AWeber code in everything I do (although you need to have some coding experience, but it's just a matter of replacing the AWeber form in anything). The AJAX type interface is sweet, and it's actually far less complicated than the old ARP3 interface. In my opinion it's the next best thing to AWeber, the only thing that makes it less is the fact that most "done for you" apps have a list option for AWeber and you have to figure out how to replace that code. In some cases this may entail editing a .php file that has the form in it, etc.
    I've been waiting almost 3 years for this update and at this point it seems like it was worth the wait! Although I don't have any large lists yet in ARPReach the functionality and management is fantastic, so I'll have to update as I grow my lists to see how my host responds to growing emails.
    This is as close as is gets to an online solution that you can host yourself...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6087046].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ronr
      I've been an arplus user for many years and have been waiting forever for the new version ARPrearch. Just installed it and so far so good but it seems to be missing some basics like a selection of attractive optin forms. I've always found it a pain to take the code it generates for a from and turn it into an attractive looking form. I'm surprised it wasn't included.

      Originally Posted by Indelible View Post

      The new ARPReach is pretty amazing. I've been playing with it now for a week, I've not had any trouble replacing AWeber code in everything I do (although you need to have some coding experience, but it's just a matter of replacing the AWeber form in anything). The AJAX type interface is sweet, and it's actually far less complicated than the old ARP3 interface. In my opinion it's the next best thing to AWeber, the only thing that makes it less is the fact that most "done for you" apps have a list option for AWeber and you have to figure out how to replace that code. In some cases this may entail editing a .php file that has the form in it, etc.
      I've been waiting almost 3 years for this update and at this point it seems like it was worth the wait! Although I don't have any large lists yet in ARPReach the functionality and management is fantastic, so I'll have to update as I grow my lists to see how my host responds to growing emails.
      This is as close as is gets to an online solution that you can host yourself...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6678309].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bobby_shahzad
    One of the reasons why you may wanna think again on self hosted is because once you do, you will never be able to import your list in an ESP account without reconfirmation.

    These ESPs have no way to tell if list was created through opt-in or was purchased(they obviously hate later)
    Signature
    BulkResponse.com Email marketing service , single and double optin accounts. List Hygiene Service Available.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6679396].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    Hey guys

    We decided a long time ago with arpReach that it was time to end the "self-hosted" or "3rd party" game by giving users control and choice in a way that could actually ramp up their delivery, not decrease it.

    We'll leave other providers to prove their delivery claims (it's not our job to prove or disprove them - they're not our claims) while we give our users practical ways to improve their own delivery which, at the end of the day, is all that really matters.

    With arpReach, it's self-hosted but that applies to the software and data, but not necessarily the sending of the email - that's a choice you can make.

    If you want to send email from your own webhost or server? No problem - of course it does that out of the box, as you'd expect.

    But if you want to hand over delivery to a 3rd party provider such as SMTP.com, SendGrid.com or any other, then you can add as many of them as you want. And by next week, you'll be able to add the ultra-cheap Amazon SES (Simple Email Service) too which is something our users have asked for and we've implemented (look out for v1.1.020 guys).

    You can then assign any of these local or remote senders that you've added to any of your autoresponders and broadcasts. You can compare open-rates and click-throughs to see which performs best. Rinse and repeat that process and your delivery goes up, not down. It's split-testing for delivery, if you will!

    For those that commented above, thanks for your positive comments. arpReach is a work in progress and you're hopefully already seeing that we take on board all feedback.

    Cheers,

    Neil
    Signature

    Easy email marketing automation without moving your lists.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6692054].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author brentb
      Originally Posted by Neil Morgan View Post

      But if you want to hand over delivery to a 3rd party provider such as SMTP.com, SendGrid.com or any other, then you can add as many of them as you want. And by next week, you'll be able to add the ultra-cheap Amazon SES (Simple Email Service) too which is something our users have asked for and we've implemented (look out for v1.1.020 guys).

      You can then assign any of these local or remote senders that you've added to any of your autoresponders and broadcasts. You can compare open-rates and click-throughs to see which performs best. Rinse and repeat that process and your delivery goes up, not down. It's split-testing for delivery, if you will!
      That's really cool! I like this ^^^^! No idea if it works and never used it but its a really cool concept. I have used SendGrid and Amazon but Amazon is too picky about spammings and stuff. When I have more time I may give this a go around to test email delivery.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6692158].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author brentb
    Ok, your list is a nice size but its not huge. You should definitely go with a third party. The headaches of self hosted are much more than you realize and you are obviously new at this.

    If you do it on your own, you MUST get a dedicated server, you are going to fail miserably if you try to use shared or VPS hosting.

    I highly recommend you contact 3rd party companies directly and ask for special deals or for them to manage a dedicated server for you. Someone is going to give you a good deal. Call maybe 5-10 places and compare the prices.

    You should be making at a very conservative guess $0.05 per email address per month which equals about $10,000 - It should cost you about $1000 - $1500 for the email service. If you host on your own with the same rate, it should cost you maybe $300 a month but you will have lost deliverability so you will only bring in about $7500 if you are lucky. If you do the math, you will get better profits with a third party and less headache so it really is the best way to go taking into effect everything you mentioned.

    Just my two cents...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6692141].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    That's really cool! I like this ^^^^! No idea if it works and never used it but its a really cool concept. I have used SendGrid and Amazon but Amazon is too picky about spammings and stuff. When I have more time I may give this a go around to test email delivery.
    Glad you like it. I call it email marketing for deliverability skeptics!

    The whole 3rd party / self-hosted debate is moot. There are so many 3rd party providers that can be used with self-hosted systems these days. Well, pitch them against each other we say - if their claims don't stack up, switch. And that can only be done with a self-hosted solution that's built to do it.

    Cheers,

    Neil
    Signature

    Easy email marketing automation without moving your lists.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6692168].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author brentb
      Can you also plug in Aweber, Constant Contact and other email services of that type? Do any of them allow this through their API? Sendgrid and Amazon are a bit different in the kind of email they are set up for...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6692199].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    Can you also plug in Aweber, Constant Contact and other email services of that type? Do any of them allow this through their API? Sendgrid and Amazon are a bit different in the kind of email they are set up for...
    No, because then you're restricted by their APIs rather than the management facilities we want to provide.

    So it's remote SMTP providers - any number you want - then we can do whatever we want with regard to management and it's consistent for every provider you add.

    Cheers,

    Neil
    Signature

    Easy email marketing automation without moving your lists.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6693335].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      Most people who bad mouth self-hosted autoresponder
      software, have never used it themselves.

      Instead, they swallow the Kool-Aid and propaganda
      spouted by many third-party autoresponder service
      providers who have a vested interest.

      I've tried many third-party autoresponder providers
      and a number of self-hosted autoresponder software
      packages too.

      I much prefer having the #1 asset in my business (my
      lists) within my CONTROL so I use a self-hosted AR.

      I also use my own VPS server and use multiple external
      SMTP providers (e.g. smtp.com, AmazonSES, etc) so
      that I have ultimate flexibility in which e-mail servers
      are used to send my e-mails.

      If you're using a third-party autoresponder service, the
      fact is that you have very little control over what
      servers are used to send your e-mail.

      I can change my e-mail servers in a heartbeat without
      having to move my list database.

      Dedicated to mutual success,

      Shaun
      Signature

      .

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6693453].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author yakim1
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        Most people who bad mouth self-hosted autoresponder
        software, have never used it themselves.

        Instead, they swallow the Kool-Aid and propaganda
        spouted by many third-party autoresponder service
        providers who have a vested interest.

        I've tried many third-party autoresponder providers
        and a number of self-hosted autoresponder software
        packages too.

        I much prefer having the #1 asset in my business (my
        lists) within my CONTROL so I use a self-hosted AR.

        I also use my own VPS server and use multiple external
        SMTP providers (e.g. smtp.com, AmazonSES, etc) so
        that I have ultimate flexibility in which e-mail servers
        are used to send my e-mails.

        If you're using a third-party autoresponder service, the
        fact is that you have very little control over what
        servers are used to send your e-mail.

        I can change my e-mail servers in a heartbeat without
        having to move my list database.

        Dedicated to mutual success,

        Shaun
        I have been reading Neil and Shaun talking about multiple SMTP providers to send emails through. I'm assuming Shaun is not using ARP and can use multiple SMTP providers.

        I have a dedicated server and use several self hosted autoresponders. I've been using them for around 10 years. My lists have grown very large and using a third party autoresponder would be very expensive and would have to adhere to their rules.

        Since Shaun can use multiple SMTP providers, I should be able to do the same thing. This is something that I never thought to do. Can someone give me more information on how to set this up on a dedicated server?

        I will be contacting my host to see if they can offer any info.

        So this will improve deliverability. Does it have anything to do with the speed at which your broadcasts are sent?

        It can take over an hour and maybe 1 and 1/2 hours for me to send to over 75,000 subscribers.

        One AR I use is a php parabot autoresponder that I have set up as a service but never launched because it won't work over multiple servers. but I do use it as a personal AR.

        Another is Mark Hendrick's By-Pass Publisher.

        I believe I used ARP3 in 2007 because it could send emails without the unsubscribe link at the bottom of the email so I could send out one email to my list of jv partners to make the email look like it was a personal email sent through my regular ISP email service.

        Paul was right about using an AR on shared hosting can get you shut down. I was on shared hosting when I first started out and didn't have any problems for a long time until something happened to my AR and a mailing I sent started bouncing emails. They said that the bounced emails was slowing the server down to a snails pace.

        The host saw that I was the cause of all the resource use and shut me down. They did turn me back on so my websites would show but could not send any more emails.

        Would really like to know more about the multiple SMTP providers!

        Best regards,
        Steve Yakim
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7853299].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Tony Dean
    Just bookmarked this thread - it's awesome!
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6693533].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan Smith
    Same here. Lots of great info.
    Signature

    VOTE FOR MY LATEST REMIX: https://goo.gl/jwHF0j
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6693550].message }}
  • I personally the self-hosted version of Active Campaign (as per Shaun OReilly's suggestion a few months back) tied up to Amazon SES for email delivery and it works pretty well actually. Solid software and solid deliverability.

    The learning curve is a little big higher, since you have to set up your own server, warm up your IP, configure a SMTP connection, etc. It took me a little while to figure it all out. But once you have it all in place, it works pretty much like a 3rd party solution at a fraction of the cost (I used to pay $400 a month to Aweber!).

    If you dont mind the slight learning curve, I would recommend it!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6693729].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Alex Mensah
    I tried one but it didn't work for me so I haven't used it since. I just use
    Get response now. You also run the risk of getting your IP address banned
    if there are too many spam complaints and things of that nature whereas when
    its hosted by someone else then you are shielded not that you are doing any unethical but
    sometimes people just get way too many mail in their bucket and instead of hitting unsubscribe they hit spam.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7852585].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author yakim1
    I would like to know about the licensing for ARPreach. One of the ARs I use is By-Pass Publisher and it is licensed. There are times when I go to login to my autoresponder to set up and email campaign or send a broadcast and I can't login because my login would not authenticate through Mark's server.

    I have to call Mark and let him know of the problem and most of the time he is having a problem with is server. I have to wait until his server in working again before I can login and get things done.

    The script is on my server but I still have to confirm my license evidently every time I login. Again someone else determines how or when I can run my business.

    How does the licensing work for ARPreach system? Can anyone supply this information?

    Best regards,
    Steve Yakim
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7853335].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kameleon
    I'm using self hosted autoresponder personally...but both options have their advantages and drawbacks on which you should pay your attention before you decide which option you will use...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7853722].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    Hi Steve

    How does the licensing work for ARPreach system? Can anyone supply this information?
    arpReach doesn't phone home to activate itself. We deliberately avoided a system like that to prevent the issue you described.

    Cheers,

    Neil
    Signature

    Easy email marketing automation without moving your lists.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7853747].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author yakim1
      Originally Posted by Neil Morgan View Post

      Hi Steve



      arpReach doesn't phone home to activate itself. We deliberately avoided a system like that to prevent the issue you described.

      Cheers,

      Neil
      I want to thank you for the very quick response. I was on your site last night checking it out. I may purchase this weekend. I have one autoresponder with over 200 lists with follow up emails set up and another with over 300 lists with the same type of follow up emails.

      This will be a ton of work to transfer all the campaigns to the new AR and then import the subscribers to each campaign. I just don't have the time to do this right now. Maybe this is something I can outsource to my VA.

      Best regards,
      Steve Yakim
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7855430].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    Hi Steve

    Yes, there are never enough hours in the day. I know that feeling very well.

    Cheers,

    Neil
    Signature

    Easy email marketing automation without moving your lists.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7855994].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author cbseo
      After reading this great thread, I purchased the gold version. Now I just have to put it into action I guess i'm in for a learning curve! Thank you, everyone, for the excellent information in the thread.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7856844].message }}

Trending Topics