Is everybody coaching?

65 replies
What's up warriors,

I've been browsing the forum for a little bit tonight, and I've noticed that there are a whole lot of warriors offering coaching, or "thinking about" starting up their own coaching program.

Not that any of you care, but I would like to say that I've been a part of three "coaching" programs in the past and they weren't coaching at all. One of them was a video course, but I didn't have access to the "coach" so if I had any questions or problems, oh well. One claimed to coach through Skype and email, until we paid him, he tried out this "coaching" thing for a week, and then fell off of the face of the earth. The other one advertised "One-on-One Coaching" and I got an e-book with an email address at the end "If we have any questions".

The point is guys, Coaching someone is not easy. The difficulty varies with each person. Before you decide to offer "Coaching" know what coaching is, and know what it's going to take. Know that somebody is depending on you. Know that somebody is trusting you to lead them in the right direction. Ask the people who are interested what they expect, because if they pay you and don't get what they expect, they will be let down.

BE UPFRONT! Let them know EXACTLY what's going to happen BEFORE they decide to pay $497 to be let down. Let the people know who you are, not "Hi, I'm John, and I'm an Internet Marketer" .... "Hi, John" No, Actually tell them what you had to go through to get to where you are today. Let them know that you were in their shoes before. Too many times have I heard of people paying for coaching to people that they know nothing about, aside from the fact that they offer coaching. This usually ends badly.

Ok, I'm done ranting about this. Just thought I should let the people who are thinking about buying coaching know to be more cautious when paying for coaching, and let the people that are thinking about offering coaching know that it's not an easy job.

Any good/bad experiences/thoughts that you would like to share? Feel free!

-Jay
#coaching
  • Profile picture of the author hassan001
    Well I selected a program for SEO and till now I remember my bad experience of having videos and no access to the coach online.... I can send him e-mails just which he also didn't replied sometimes...

    So left this thought of having coach... Found a video course myself then recommended by many people and made a base of SEO then after practicing most of the stuff in that I have build a strong grip on keyword selection, keyword research, tools involved in keyword research, domain names importance, backlinking and other such great topics....

    Just want to share that "don't rely upon anyone blindly "... So the choice is urs....

    Thanks jay for starting this thread....
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    • Profile picture of the author marimuda
      Originally Posted by hassan001 View Post

      Well I selected a program for SEO and till now I remember my bad experience of having videos and no access to the coach online.... I can send him e-mails just which he also didn't replied sometimes...

      So left this thought of having coach... Found a video course myself then recommended by many people and made a base of SEO then after practicing most of the stuff in that I have build a strong grip on keyword selection, keyword research, tools involved in keyword research, domain names importance, backlinking and other such great topics....

      Just want to share that "don't rely upon anyone blindly "... So the choice is urs....

      Thanks jay for starting this thread....
      Since the demand on coaches is higher than ever since more people look for the opportunity of starting an online business.
      this makes the competition tight, most of the self proclaimed gurus / experts, don't have more than half done coaching programs & aren't in reach when you need them... this hurts the industry. And it hurts knowing that people push the soft buttons of a lost person trying to get on track, just for scamming them. Heard about peoples spent over 15k$ without results.

      But back to the reason why i quoted your message.
      Since the internet marketing niche is such a competitive niche it is easy to get off track, people narrow down their expertise in niche within the niches or also called micro niches, Since we know the search engines is a huge traffic source we tent to get interested in SEO, which also results in investing in that field, but there is two things here that you need to be aware of.

      First: SEO isn't a business asset, you need to look at the big picture, going into all minor details won't make you any good, according to the CEO of Google there were over 500 algorithm changes in 2010 alone, thats around 1.5 algorithm changes a day, Therefore you need to just have a understanding on what Google is trying to accomplice, which is to give the person searching relevant high quality content that serves the purpose of the person that searches.

      What you can use it for is As long as you put out the meta tags, use the <h1> <h2> <h3> keyword in title and a keyword density between 1% & 3%, then you shouldn't worry to much about the SEO at all, rather spent the time & effort into marketing or other sources of traffic. Because if you want to adjust your text to all the changes Google makes to their algorithm you won't find a lot of time for anything else.

      Second: You need to understand that Google can change the algorithm without any notice, give you penalties. Therefore SEO isn't a asset of your business, since the power isn't in your hands, What if Google decided to give you a penalty for trying to manipulate the system, can you afford it? what other kind of traffic are you generating? what true assets do you have in your business?, You need to focus on building Email lists since they are fully under your control, you can put them down to excel sheets or anything you want,.

      Spending to much time fine tuning the SEO isn't a good investment since you don't know what will happen and you can't do anything about it if it happens.

      Hope I was able to explain it clear enough to give you make you see the reason why you perhaps should start rethink your marketing strategy!

      Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrashImpact
    Jay,
    X2 and very well put.

    In my opinion if its not one on one, its not coaching or mentoring. Group format is tough and takes lots of extra one on one time to get amazing results.

    Therefore...IMHO coaching should start at $497 month for 1 hour a week private and go up from there...

    Most of what i see here on the forum is not coaching at all... as you stated in your post...

    There should also be included a Strategic CUSTOM Action Plan for each and every student custom tailored to their want's and needs as well as Ability.

    Now i know your just out oh H.S. but you got your head wrapped up perfect in the game and i wish you massive success... Nice post you made earlier too PETE still in High School.. A true Warrior my Friend...

    Oh Ya, and if i was coaching...it wouldn't be for $197 or $497 a month that's for sure.... Thats like giving the Education farm away... But i also would be working one on one and available by cell phone and skype... but that's just me...

    To Your continued success,
    Robert
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    • Profile picture of the author iRunThis
      Originally Posted by BrashImpact View Post

      Jay,
      X2 and very well put.

      In my opinion if its not one on one, its not coaching or mentoring. Group format is tough and takes lots of extra one on one time to get amazing results.

      Therefore...IMHO coaching should start at $497 month for 1 hour a week private and go up from there...

      Most of what i see here on the forum is not coaching at all... as you stated in your post...

      There should also be included a Strategic CUSTOM Action Plan for each and every student custom tailored to their want's and needs as well as Ability.

      Now i know your just out oh H.S. but you got your head wrapped up perfect in the game and i wish you massive success... Nice post you made earlier too PETE still in High School.. A true Warrior my Friend...

      Oh Ya, and if i was coaching...it wouldn't be for $197 or $497 a month that's for sure.... Thats like giving the Education farm away... But i also would be working one on one and available by cell phone and skype... but that's just me...

      To Your continued success,
      Robert
      Exactly! If you ever offer coaching, let me know and I would be happy to promote it to my list. I completely agree that every "student" should have a custom action plan to fit them. It's too bad that today, these "coaches" accept 20+ students so there's no time to dedicate to only one individual in that group. That is why so many coaching programs fail and have very little success stories.

      -Jay
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      "Grammar: The difference between knowing your sh*t, and knowing you're sh*t." -A Wise Man
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      • Profile picture of the author eric w
        This question is timely regarding myself. I just recently inquired about a fellow warrior's coaching program he was promoting as a wso.

        He informed me that his coaching program would teach warriors how to be im coaches...even if they have never made a dime!

        I'm not baggin' on my fellow warriors, but this may be why there are many coaching wsos by people with low post counts and minimal im experience.

        He's teaching how much money a warrior can make as an im coach.....teaching in the warrior forum....

        To each his own, however, this does not seem to be the most effective type of coach.

        eric w
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        • Profile picture of the author iRunThis
          Originally Posted by eric w View Post

          This question is timely regarding myself. I just recently inquired about a fellow warrior's coaching program he was promoting as a wso.

          He informed me that his coaching program would teach warriors how to be im coaches...even if they have never made a dime!

          I'm not baggin' on my fellow warriors, but this may be why there are many coaching wsos by people with low post counts and minimal im experience.

          He's teaching how much money a warrior can make as an im coach.....teaching in the warrior forum....

          To each his own, however, this does not seem to be the most effective type of coach.

          eric w
          Not at all, that's ridiculous. Unless he's going to turn them into successful I.M.ers making a steady full time income and THEN teach them how to be coaches, that's just wrong. That shouldn't be allowed and it's definitely looked down upon. Others will be going to these people for help, asking them questions that are way above their knowledge...and then what? Those same people that paid for the coaching will turn around and do the same thing to somebody else. WAKE UP WARRIORS! Do the right thing!

          -Jay
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          "Grammar: The difference between knowing your sh*t, and knowing you're sh*t." -A Wise Man
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        • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by eric w View Post


          He's teaching how much money a warrior can make as an im coach.....teaching in the warrior forum....
          The blind leading the blind they call that Lol.
          I'm surprised there's anyone left to be coached here.
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      • Profile picture of the author Torreylee
        Originally Posted by iRunThis View Post

        Exactly! If you ever offer coaching, let me know and I would be happy to promote it to my list. I completely agree that every "student" should have a custom action plan to fit them. It's too bad that today, these "coaches" accept 20+ students so there's no time to dedicate to only one individual in that group. That is why so many coaching programs fail and have very little success stories.

        -Jay
        Exactly, it really does the naive students a disservice.
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  • Profile picture of the author RLINKEN
    A coach needs to know the game and have proof that they know the game. I was probably the author of one of those threads you are referring to tonight... but I hope you didn't take me as someone like you've described.

    I couldn't agree with your post more. I'm personally a coach at heart. From coaching clients to IM lives or Division 1 Athletes in track and field. Simply put coaching is NOT easy.. and takes a particular individual.

    You must understand that just like in sports... a Great marketer doesn't necessarily make a good coach. It takes someone who knows the student, their goals, and ambitions... it takes a coach who views their students success as sublets of their own... THAT is how I view coaching... When my athletes (when I coached track) fail, I failed.. That's how I take on my IM guys too, but I haven't had any of them fail yet haha
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    • Profile picture of the author iRunThis
      Originally Posted by RLINKEN View Post

      A coach needs to know the game and have proof that they know the game. I was probably the author of one of those threads you are referring to tonight... but I hope you didn't take me as someone like you've described.

      I couldn't agree with your post more. I'm personally a coach at heart. From coaching clients to IM lives or Division 1 Athletes in track and field. Simply put coaching is NOT easy.. and takes a particular individual.

      You must understand that just like in sports... a Great marketer doesn't necessarily make a good coach. It takes someone who knows the student, their goals, and ambitions... it takes a coach who views their students success as sublets of their own... THAT is how I view coaching... When my athletes (when I coached track) fail, I failed.. That's how I take on my IM guys too, but I haven't had any of them fail yet haha
      I stumbled upon your thread after I submitted this one. :p

      I wasn't referring to you when I talked about terrible coaches, but I guess in a way I was when I said a lot of people are trying to be coaches.

      Not bashing you in any way though, if you are a real "coach" I salute you, and you have my respect. Just make sure that you teach your students "the right way" to do internet marketing. I actually read through your thread, and I can tell that you're one of the good guys.

      This thread isn't bashing anyone. Just opening eyes. I'm sure you can understand. There's a lot of corrupt people on the internet, and when corrupt people offer coaching, they either let people down or build an army of even more corrupt people. lol

      -Jay
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      "Grammar: The difference between knowing your sh*t, and knowing you're sh*t." -A Wise Man
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      • Profile picture of the author RLINKEN
        Jay,

        I completely understand man. Only one thing is worse than seeing people who want something so bad struggle and fail... and that's when these same people put their hard-earned money and trust in someones hand's to lead them to success... and are led astray, or not lead at all!

        I 100% commend your post here, and completely agree!
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  • Profile picture of the author xxxJamesxxx
    That's why I ONLY take on one student at a time when it comes to coaching. So I can focus all my time on them... One on one style.

    Mentors who take on more than one or two students are basically gonna thob you off with a membership site with a few videos and PDFs etc. It takes A LOT of time and energy to work with someone till the point they're successful.

    James Scholes
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  • Profile picture of the author fanatical
    Just wanted to say how much I agree.


    I am a coach (not in IM), highly trained and qualified, and I can attest to the fact that coaching can be demanding emotionally and psychologically, and needs a lot of focus, if you do it properly. It has nothing to do with being an expert in any particular field or subject matter. In fact, some believe that being successful in something yourself can result in lower quality coaching, because of the tendency to draw on one's own experience.


    There are so many people around calling themselves coaches who have no idea what coaching is. They might more accurately describe themselves as mentors but, even that, in my view, would be an exaggeration, and they'd be better off just saying they're offering training, based on their own personal experience.


    Let's hope that customers get better informed, learn to differentiate, and gain the confidence to hold their coaches or mentors accountable to ensure they get the learning that's right for them.
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    • Profile picture of the author paolo83
      Originally Posted by fanatical View Post

      Just wanted to say how much I agree.


      I am a coach (not in IM), highly trained and qualified, and I can attest to the fact that coaching can be demanding emotionally and psychologically, and needs a lot of focus, if you do it properly. It has nothing to do with being an expert in any particular field or subject matter. In fact, some believe that being successful in something yourself can result in lower quality coaching, because of the tendency to draw on one's own experience.


      There are so many people around calling themselves coaches who have no idea what coaching is. They might more accurately describe themselves as mentors but, even that, in my view, would be an exaggeration, and they'd be better off just saying they're offering training, based on their own personal experience.


      Let's hope that customers get better informed, learn to differentiate, and gain the confidence to hold their coaches or mentors accountable to ensure they get the learning that's right for them.

      I'm a trained coach myself and what i see around here is usually some type of mentoring sold as coaching.

      A mentor whould show you the ropes and then help you to replicate what they did to succeed.

      A coach would listent to what the client's situation is and then direct the client's focus into coming up with the steps and the commitment to follow through to success, step by step.It must be the client to develop the strategy that best fit his needs and not the coach.


      paolo
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      • Profile picture of the author paolo83
        Just to clarify,

        i did take some "coaching" on this forum, for 197$, 397$ and even 697$ ...

        They say you get what you pay for but in my experience on the forum none of those where coaching but some form of mentoring.

        Defenetly a disappointing experience....
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        • Profile picture of the author Jon Paella
          I've done a bit of research on many coaching programs on the WF. And I'm on a few programs now, paying hundreds of dollars for some. I do my proper research before committing to any. There are some good ones out there but you need to do your research. Definitely check out the person's reputation and make sure it has some money back guarantee if you're too worried.

          I do think coaching should be one on one and not videos and should including skype calls not just emails. But you get what you pay for - for those that are cheaper, you don't get that much personal touch.

          I think anyone who goes into coaching should never think they are going to make lots of money in it. You can only make lots of money either if you charge very high or you have a lot of students (and use videos, etc.). Many coaches do genuinely want to help and the time they invest is definitely worth more than what the client is paying. There are such coaches out there. You just need to search hard enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eduard Stinga
    I've had pretty good experiences with coaching, but that's because I chose it wisely and I knew what I was getting. Of course, if I were to go again for coaching, I would look at it differently than I did when I first started.

    1-on-1 sessions on Skype or chatting for ~1h, twice a week, plus unlimited e-mail support, for one month. I guess I was quite lucky to have paid only $200, which back then seemed a lot!
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    • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
      Funny, I just had a guy ask about my coaching rates and mentioned that the "going rate" was $97 to $197 a month. I think that should be a red flag to anyone buying coaching.

      What kind of coaching can you really expect from someone who is willing to work for such a low rate?

      Yes, people need to be more up front, but buyers should really use some common sense.

      If you want quality, you have to pay for it, and if someone can truly teach you how to make thousands or even hundreds of dollars a day, why in the world would they charge less than at least $199 an hour?
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    As an IM coach, the most important "skill" you need is patience. It's not for everyone, that's for sure.

    But here's the thing that not many coaches will tell you, but I will...

    We (the coaches) often get as much from the experience as we're giving back in knowledge, skills, and help. I can tell you that when I coach someone and they break through or "get it" finally, it jazzes me so much that it motivates me to do my non-coaching IM work with newfound excitement. It reminds of the early days when I too struggled to get it and finally make some money.

    So the next time you look simply at the amount of money a coach asks for, remember that he/she might have motives beyond the income it generates.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
    Banned
    What I'd like to know, is how many of these "coaches" are actually qualified?
    You know, actually having some sort of document to verify this,
    and not just calling themselves coaches.

    I doubt there's even one on this forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
      Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

      What I'd like to know, is how many of these "coaches" are actually qualified?
      You know, actually having some sort of document to verify this,
      and not just calling themselves coaches.

      I doubt there's even one on this forum.
      LOL You mean some type of accreditation? Like a "Life Coach" diploma or something like that? I'm sorry, but that's hilarious.

      In IM, the best teacher possible is experience, mistakes made and corrected, and ultimately success. Give me that over a piece of paper on the wall any day.

      John
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      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

        In IM, the best teacher possible is experience,
        What sort of experience would that be then?
        The experience the coach credits himself with
        on his own salespage?
        Now that's hilarious.


        Originally Posted by iRunThis View Post

        there's no "Internet Marketing Qualification Course" for coaches or anything,
        And until there is, hundreds of suckers are going to be ripped off.
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        • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
          Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

          What sort of experience would that be then?
          The experience the coach credits himself with
          on his own salespage?
          Now that's hilarious.

          And until there is, hundreds of suckers are going to be ripped off.
          Sounds like you've had bad experiences. Painting everyone with a broad brush is not the answer to that. And with the rampant use of doctored screen shots and even videos purporting to show "proof," everything's a gamble no matter how you slice it. Find a coach that offers a guarantee, but expect them to demand that you actually do the work discussed. Coaches don't have magic instant success dust they can sprinkle over you, after all.
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          • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

            Sounds like you've had bad experiences.
            Not much chance of that lol.
            I might look dumb.
            But appearances can be deceptive.
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            • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
              Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

              Not much chance of that lol.
              I might look dumb.
              But appearances can be deceptive.
              So you're assigning qualities to people without any direct experience as a basis, either way. Got it.
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              • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

                So you're assigning qualities to people without any direct experience as a basis, either way. Got it.
                Well it doesn't tajke a rocket scientist to see what's going on at this forum.
                Even a blind man could see it.
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                • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
                  Coaching sure isn't easier than doing what you are teaching. I started my business in eBay and eCommerce, but I started my "brand" in teaching what I know.

                  I had to stop my classes because I couldn't devote enough time to students personal questions, and I felt it wasn't fair to charge someone money when I could only slice myself so thin before every piece of advice I could offer became useless and generalized. I stopped before I gave myself a bad rep and not to mention, it was more profitable to actually do what I was teaching rather than by teaching what I was doing.


                  A good coach is hard to find. Snakeoil salesmen are a dime a dozen.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

      What I'd like to know, is how many of these "coaches" are actually qualified?
      You know, actually having some sort of document to verify this,
      and not just calling themselves coaches.

      I doubt there's even one on this forum.
      Then you'd be disappointed.

      The current situation is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy though - newbies who think they should be making money but aren't often turn to telling others how to do it to make their first money and it's frequently promoted as a 'good' way to make money.

      You've seen it a thousand times "if you've read a few ebooks - you know more than 99% of people and should charge to share your knowledge".

      Many IMers have no real concept of what coaching is and use the term very loosely and are selling it to other people who also don't know what it is - but think that if it'll show them how to make money then they must need it.

      Some IM 'coaching' programs are laughable, but I bet there are still happy customers. I've seen people say the most amazing things about some really crap stuff over the years so nothing surprises me now.

      I just ignore it all now as it's up to other people to make their choices about offering and paying for what they want.
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      • Profile picture of the author RichardDean
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        Then you'd be disappointed.

        I've seen people say the most amazing things about some really crap stuff over the years so nothing surprises me now.
        You get a total thanks for this post If I could give you a thousand I would...But what sticks out is the line above...

        WSO I bought had rave reviews: up front I will tell you the out come... I returned it asked for my money back...

        Went like this make 20,000 or how I made 20,000

        I bought it because it had so many rave reviews.

        The concept went like this get 20,000 flyers printed... sell ads for the flyers... pass out flyers then you should make 20,000.

        Yes it said you should make 20,000... are you kidding me who the heck would do this.... how much is 20,000 flyers to print then how long would it take to get the ads... then to pass out 20,000 flyers, and I should make 20,000.

        It had little more details filler for the PDF but that was the concept

        This is what people think a great WSO is Shaking my head even right now writing this.

        Andy hit the nail on the head.

        Richard
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  • Profile picture of the author iRunThis
    When you say qualified as in those that are making money online themselves and have proof of this, then I agree.

    But the other way? Yeah, there's no "Internet Marketing Qualification Course" for coaches or anything, even though it's a good idea.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Sneen
    Coaching involves personal or small group contact. Handing someone a canned video is not, and never was, coaching.

    The coach has a responsibility to listen and guide. That is true of the online coach, just as it was---and is--- true of the traditional coach.

    There are certificates for life coaches. I agree with Zeus that life experience is the best teacher. However, someone who takes his coaching seriously enough to take a course and get a certificate will be a better coach than he/she was before. I need someone who takes themself and their coaching seriously.
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    David Sneen
    It's what you do when no one is watching
    that determines what you will be able to
    do when everyone is watching.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sharyn Sheldon
    What a great thread! There are definitely so many people out there who are selling "coaching programs" who either don't have the skills or knowledge to coach or who are selling something that is more like a hands-off training program.

    A coach is someone who helps you assess your skills, knowledge, business and behavior - then works with you to build an action plan that's specific to your situation. While some type of training materials or membership site is helpful, it should be a supplement to the coaching itself. There has to be some kind of one-on-one element for the coaching to be successful.

    For anyone looking to hire a coach, I'd be extremely careful to look at everything that's offered. If there aren't details about the amount of one-on-one time, then ask for it. How will you communicate, how much time, limits on time or emails, etc.

    Also, you need to know exactly what the person's experience is in. You want someone who has knowledge of your business model or other issues you're facing.

    Get references! Don't just rely on some testimonials printed on the person's website.

    I'd also say that the price that's charged doesn't necessarily reflect the value you'll get. I've seen $2,000 coaching programs that are basically a series of videos with a little video support. Then I've seen people charging $97 per month who are giving you some guidance via emails, but whose advice and direction are priceless. However, if you're looking for someone that's going to take your hand and walk your through step-by-step - that's more of a training program combined with coaching. And it will probably be expensive if it's any good.

    I'm glad that people are pushing for some higher standards when it comes to coaching. Hopefully, that will be a trend since a coach can be so valuable when it comes to building your business.

    Thanks for raising these issues Jay!
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  • Profile picture of the author RichardDean
    You guys have done it to yourself... look at the WSO's that tell you

    How I made 50,000 from coaching and if you buy my book you can coach also.

    Then you buy the book and slap some coaching together then you think you're a coach

    I don't know why you don't get it here... Stop buying this stuff

    STOP TELLING PEOPLE HOW TO DO STUFF YOU'RE NOT DOING

    doing it one time you got lucky is not enough for you to be a master


    You know people lie. you know people hype, you know people use fake screen shots, you know people use things in their favor to sucker you in to buying the products.

    And you buy them and you try doing what they say in the book and you fail...

    Good example
    Take the warrior plus screen shots ones that are real even use mine if we want...

    Take 1000.00 in sales it shows for 10.00 item so I made 100 sales/1000.00 or did I?

    I can have a WSO how I made 100 sales making 1000.00 send me 7.00 for the report.

    People would eat it up but they would never know how I did it. I would leave out the most important thing. or I could tell you this one thing and you still would not know.

    Solve this :
    The 100 sales is real the 1000.00 is real but I left out one thing that make this fake anyone can you guess what it is?

    The thing I left out is the secret to selling a crap load of the
    ( WSO how I made 100 sales making 1000.00 send me 7.00 for the report )

    Richard

    Back to the coaching I do offer detailed coaching 10 weeks by the end you have your own product and several JV partners... The part about any coaching is it detailed like I do..
    What is it they do and how
    Do they offer the coaching... or is it just a PLR book or video they bought and passing as their own
    what support they offer
    Do they say what you will have after the coaching is over

    hope that helps
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  • Profile picture of the author iRunThis
    I'm glad that everybody is finding this thread "insightful" if you will, and also adding their thoughts. Hopefully all of the people that are looking for a coach come and read this thread. It would help out A LOT of newbies and save them from being out of $5k.

    Jay
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  • Profile picture of the author lukedidit
    I am to cheap to pay someone to coach me when there are so many good free resources online, then again I am used to hunting down what I need online from my day job.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ben Gordon
    People don't understand the true meaning of "coaching". What I usually do with my offline clients is give them books and videos to look through and understand the basic idea of internet marketing, as well as techniques I use that are effective. This eliminates a bunch of time spent with amateurs explaining stupid things.

    Next I actually sit with them and coach them personally -- 1 on 1, face to face. I get their ideas down for their business and help them start a business plan/model to actually make money. Then I periodically meet up with them and make sure they're doing fine. Along with that, I offer email and phone support in case they need help with something or are stuck on an obstacle.

    Coaching is not easy -- well said. I have coached for years and it took me a year or two to start beneficially coaching students to the point where they actually meet results. And yet, after all my success and experience I'm still frightened to take it up a notch and offer coaching online, because I know there'll be many obstacles I'll personally have to overcome to properly teach people. Perhaps as time passes I'll create a coaching program but definitely in no time soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Jay,
    Sorry mate if I've missed it, but how much did you invest towards these coaching programs?

    Up to you whether or not you wish to share, but I'd be interested in knowing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Go4DBest
    Thanks for the heads-up.

    I would like to be a coach in the future.
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  • Profile picture of the author ezmystic
    I would not coach unless I knew I could provide a great service as I don't like ripping people of, karma kind of thing as well as just being wrong. Also coaching will take up a lot of precious time
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  • Profile picture of the author TonySanford
    In the UK we have a saying... Those who can, do...Those who can't teach!

    I know one marketer who never made a buck online, expect coaching and he has made a six figure business out of it.
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    • Profile picture of the author CarolSmith
      Originally Posted by TonySanford View Post

      In the UK we have a saying... Those who can, do...Those who can't teach!

      I know one marketer who never made a buck online, expect coaching and he has made a six figure business out of it.
      As a retired teacher, you can't imagine how many times I have heard that. I am retired now but it still stings. I dedicated my entire life to teaching. It was a true passion.

      I have a reasonably high IQ, I have lots of paper and certificates, I spent way more on education than I ever expected to truly get back, I had to do odd jobs to help support my family because the pay wasn't that great. But I never was tempted to change. I believe I was a great teacher and I have about 600 ex students on FB that would say the same thing.

      Rant over -- more to the point.

      Perhaps what IM needs is more teachers than coaches. I am talking more individual teaching of the skills needed to launch a successful career. Many may not want to admit that these are needed but they are. A logical step-by-step approach is absolutely necessary for newbies.

      I do some individual "teaching" for free, even by phone sometimes instead of Skype. It is all up to the individual. Skills can be taught by larger groups but the opportunity for questions must be there.

      A million years ago I taught shorthand to a class of about 45. Every student had my phone number written in the front of their book. No excuses if they didn't understand something.

      Much later in life I taught Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Computer Basics to very large college classes. The room held about 50 computers. My syllabus had my phone number. I knew where students were in general going to have trouble and could "unstick" them without seeing their screen.

      So you want to be a coach? First evaluate yourself to see if you would be a good teacher. Some of the worst teachers I have had were brilliant in their fields but just couldn't get the point across.
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  • Profile picture of the author tenji
    I have not been a member of any coaching program before, and would never be in the future.
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  • Profile picture of the author RLINKEN
    I'm going to have to strongly disagree with a lot of people in this thread...

    Saying that a coach is a poor investment, a scam, doesn't work etc. is complete crap. Just because you may have had a bad experience does not give you the right to defame all coaches into those categories.

    I take pride in helping people succeed, and honestly am damn good at it. I have a coach as well who takes a ton of pride in helping me... and he is DAMN good at it...

    The thing I notice about this forum is alot of people confuse their experience as fact, and state their experiences as assumed normality. It's not. It was unfortunate for you, but do not claim an entire industry is a scam because you worked with one rotten egg.
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    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by RLINKEN View Post

      but do not claim an entire industry is a scam because you worked with one rotten egg.
      I think you've got it the wrong way round.
      People should be looking for the one good egg.

      There probably are a few good coaches around.
      But they are rare, not in abundance like it appears here.
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      • Profile picture of the author RLINKEN
        Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

        I think you've got it the wrong way round.
        People should be looking for the one good egg.

        There probably are a few good coaches around.
        But they are rare, not in abundance like it appears here.
        People should be very picky and very certain about coaching... Not only whether the person whom will coach them is right... but also if they are right for coaching.

        Some people struggle with direction, and time management, hence why they fail... these people won't be too successful even with coaching if they aren't willing to do what the coach asks of him/her.

        I completely agree with you that the amount of coaches is absurd here and that the majority don't have business doing so. But some, even if it's only a few offer great service.
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        • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by RLINKEN View Post


          Some people struggle with direction, and time management, hence why they fail...
          That's what all the coaches say when people ask for a refund Lol.

          Originally Posted by RLINKEN View Post


          I completely agree with you that the amount of coaches is absurd here and that the majority don't have business doing so. But some, even if it's only a few offer great service.
          At last we're getting somewhere.
          We've got 98% of the forum trying to coach the 2%
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          • Profile picture of the author RLINKEN
            Ha, yeah, but I know that I'm in that good coaching %. That's why I have no problem defending myself and my ability to coach to an open floor. You will notice very few "coaches" on this site will do this.

            I'm not much of a forum guy, though I do think WF holds keys to AMAZING information/business building..

            I just think WF can be a lot of talk, and a ton of "sheep following", so I def. want to make it clear that not ALL coaching is bad. This is not meant to offend anyone, or say that I do not LOVE getting/giving opinions from/to bright like-minded individuals... but simple marketing states social opinion can sway others beliefs. (for the better or worse)!

            Though again... I completely agree with you lgibbon, in that alot of coaches here/coaching courses aren't what they state... the client should be very careful on who they pick if coaching is in fact for them..

            He/She should know though that their are good sources out there.
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            • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
              Originally Posted by RLINKEN View Post

              Ha, yeah, but I know that I'm in that good coaching %. That's why I have no problem defending myself and my ability to coach to an open floor. You will notice very few "coaches" on this site will do this.
              I actually provide coaching but I don't promote it here because the type of coaching most IM newbies are looking for is not in-line with what I offer.

              In my experience, IMers looking for coaching are generally looking for someone to share all the details of their business for them to replicate step by step.
              I have no intention or interest in telling other people to do the same things I do, but I love to help people be the best that they can be and make the most of their own resources. As an NLP Master Practitioner of many years and a hypnotist, I focus on personal happiness and achievement.

              The spectrum of what is on offer and what people are looking for is huge, so there's no simple way to cover this subject and it's largely subjective in a forum like this.

              On the other hand, although this is a marketing forum, I have no interest in trying to convince people to be my coaching clients, so my model is very different to most of the coaching being offered here. I specialise in personal performance coaching and just happen to also be an experienced IMer and able to mix in advice and assistance from that angle, but it's not the primary focus on what I offer.

              As others have said - I'm also from the school of "I want to sit down with my clients and look them in the eye" and work with them closely, so the whole "watch these videos" style of coaching some people have encountered is not something I would call coaching.

              But that diversity is what makes this place so interesting

              Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author RLINKEN
      Originally Posted by Michael Milken View Post

      Says the guy offering coaching in his signature.....
      That was absolutely pointless. I clearly wrote that I am a coach, and take pride in it... so yes?
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  • Profile picture of the author JimWaller
    Personally, I'm not a coach nor am I being coached. Mark Hess's dialogue above offered me an interesting insight into coaching. I think one reason coaching sometimes fails is differing expectations of what the coaching is.
    The coach may think "Hey, I'm making myself very available why am I not hearing from them?" expecting the student to do the driving.
    While the persom being coached may think "Hey, I'm making myself very available why am I not hearing from them?" expecting the coach to do the pushing. (Yes, it's the same sentence.)
    This difference in expectations of what the coaching is leads to disappointment. Additionally, a student's preexisting level of competency may dictate a difference in expectations. A newbie might expect to be led by the hand while a more experienced student may only want the coach as a resource for when they reach a challenge they are not sure how to overcome.

    Thanks iRunThis for starting this thread, I've found it very interesting.

    Jim Waller
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  • Profile picture of the author perfectlovehere
    I'm not coaching at the moment but I'd like to start. It seems like a good way to add an extra income stream.
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  • Profile picture of the author AppsFromHome
    I've received a few offers from Warriors to coach them but I had to decline. The thing is....I love to teach and help others especially in IM where the results can have a lasting impact on someones life.

    However, it's been an extreme balancing already running an offline business, family life, health, etc....

    You just need to know what exactly you are getting before you invest in a program... coaching can be considered a video course or an eBook with an e-mail - it's not my definition but to some it is.
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  • Correct, if every tom, dick and harry claims to be coaches, i wonder will be listenin to who. some of us should humble enough to listen and learn.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hristo
    I've done some coaching work (not IM) and I've stopped because I've found its not worth my time. Real coaching is time-consuming and I get emotionally worked up and feel responsible for the clients' results. Maybe it is just me, but when you care too much about the client, you lose too much time thinking about it, trying to help etc. For coaching to work, you need a lot of experience, a special mindset that you won't feel responsible for the client and you should charge A LOT.

    I've found I made way more money without getting emotionally worked up by working on my software products.

    btw. I think offering/paying for consultations is a far better way to get results. A one-time consultation (on the phone, skype whatever) and the client is far more willing to listen and take action. Basically, you tell him what to do and spend the rest of the consultation dispelling myths and beliefs of what he/she "thinks" needs to be done. Jme.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Hristo View Post

      For coaching to work, you need a lot of experience, a special mindset that you won't feel responsible for the client and you should charge A LOT.
      That's the thing - you are NOT responsible for them. You can't force them to take the necessary actions to work their plan. (unless they ask for hypnosis )

      However, it's VITAL that you expect them to be successful in order that you are congruent in your communcations and expectation settings with them. If you 'try' to coach someone and are expecting them to fail - you'll be helping that become reality.
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  • Profile picture of the author madison_avenue
    The football coach Jose Mourinhio rebuked a Real Madrid footballer for marking poorly at a corner kick, the player, responded by saying: "How would you know, you've never played the game!". Make sure you have a coach that has 'played the game' not just learnt how to 'play the game'.

    There are plenty of coaches who have played the game and you'll learn more from that type of coach.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by madison_avenue View Post

      The football coach Jose Mourinhio rebuked a Real Madrid footballer for marking poorly at a corner kick, the player, responded by saying: "How would you know, you've never played the game!". Make sure you have a coach that has 'played the game' not just learnt how to 'play the game'.

      There are plenty of coaches who have played the game and you'll learn more from that type of coach.
      That's also got a lot of dodgy ground.

      Who do you think the best players in the world go to? Better players?

      Many of the sports coaches are not actually atheletes in that sport - they are sports psychologists who are able to model an excellent mindset (for that person) and help them achieve their best.

      Many people who are in the field are not qualified/skilled coaches.

      A lot of people can do something but not teach it well to others.

      In IM - just because someone made some money doesn't mean they know why or how to teach it to others, especially if the other person has a slightly different business model/preferences/resources.

      You need to be careful that your idea of coaching is aligned with the person you're looking to get coaching from.

      Some people think coaching = like football coaching - someone better than you showing you what to do, but many coaches are not that, but they are able to faciliate your success.

      You just need to be clear that you're on the same page.
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  • Profile picture of the author Allan Leadbetter
    we have "coached" for want of a better word some friends of ours but we never took any money from them just showed them the ropes and now they make at least a bit of money every month which makes me feel very satisfied, the coaching thing is an interesting one as there are a lot of people in the current climate desperate to learn how to make money for themselves but there are also a lot of people out there willing to scam others. Its not a great combination

    I dont think I would do proper coaching as I would feel a huge weight of responsibility to make sure they were making money if they had paid me to help them, and it takes a lot of your time you have to be committed to it 100%.

    I get a lot of satisfaction from seeing our friends make a bit more money each month and from the fact they enjoy doing it but I feel for those who get suckered into to paying a "guru" for "coaching" and end up getting next to nothing for it
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Desi
    This post hit home because I've tried "coaching" and it was either a group thing with little to no access to the "guru" or it was a "secret" website only available to members...it basically was a self taught course with videos.

    Coaching, as someone said, is individualized and one-on-one.

    If it's a self taught program, say it's a self taught study program. If it's a class/group thing, be upfront about it.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
      Originally Posted by WebsiteVideoPresenter View Post

      If it's a self taught program, say it's a self taught study program. If it's a class/group thing, be upfront about it.
      Gee, you're pushing it.

      You're asking people to be honest.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Originally Posted by Michael Milken View Post

    Anyone whose serious about being successful would avoid anyone offering a coaching program. It's different if you find a person whose actually successful and ask them to mentor you. But a person offering coaching is pure BS.
    Im sorry, but this is just crap.

    Did it ever occur to you that perhaps some people just want to help other people?????
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