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Thinking of Hiring Someone, Using Paypal? READ THIS FIRST.

by Damien Roche
15 replies
I was recently scammed, and because the transaction was service based Paypal will have nothing to do with it and favor the seller. So, to anyone here who is considering hiring people be VERY careful who you hire. Demand references, ratings, whatever. Don't think because the transaction happened over Paypal you are somehow protected. You're not.

Cost me $150 to find that out.

The process is - enter transaction into dispute, converse with seller who is not obliged to respond, escalate to claim, seller says was service based, Paypal cancel claim, not able to reopen claim.

The Paypal rep said to me:

"We do not protect the buyer if the transaction was service based. Speak with your credit card company."

How to tell if someone is out to scam?

This person seemed legit and had some decent experience, but there are a few things I should have done:

* checked the main profile page, looked for other users with problems
* looked through some of their posts to see the quality
* looked through threads they have created
* checked any other contact info they care to share (twitter/facebook etc)
* ask for their paypal email and throw that email into google

Be cautious of users who sell their services via PM only. Suggest they open up a warriorsforhire thread as this will allow them to be exposed to the entire community.

I've been online for a good 5 years now and NEVER once been scammed. Generally, scammers are easy to recognize. Keep your eyes open. Not nice having some lowlife stranger rob you over the internet.
#based #paypal #protection #service #transactions
  • Profile picture of the author GMD
    Banned
    To expand upon what you've written:

    You'll NEVER lose money IF:

    1. You fund ALL PayPal purchases (including services) with a major credit card.

    Why?

    If you find you've been "scammed", under PayPal's Terms of Service, you're obligated to go through their dispute process first or again, according to their Terms of Service, risk your account getting limited or closed permanently for violating their TOS.

    In other words, if you try to go for a chargeback FIRST before filing a dispute, PayPal will make you pay.

    Once the inevitable happens and you lose the dispute, immediately file a chargeback with your credit card issuer.

    Obviously present what evidence you have including correspondence between you and your buyer/seller. In almost all cases, your credit card issuers will credit the money back to your account.

    Your credit card company will then take the money from PayPal. PayPal will in turn remove the money from the "scammer's" PayPal account.

    At this point you have your money back and your "scammer" will either have the funds deducted from his/her account (thus losing the proceeds) or their account will be in the negative (putting them at risk for account limitation and closure).
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      If you find you've been "scammed", under PayPal's Terms of Service, you're obligated to go through their dispute process first or again, according to their Terms of Service, risk your account getting limited or closed permanently for violating their TOS.

      In other words, if you try to go for a chargeback FIRST before filing a dispute, PayPal will make you pay.
      This does not fit my experience. I paid for a one-year membership in a site with my American Express card through Paypal. For reasons that aren't relevant here, I had to file a chargeback after my requests for a refund were ignored. American Express took my information and handled the problem with Paypal for me. I won the chargeback because the seller did not even file a reply. I never had to interact with Paypal over this dispute.

      To me, this was an American Express payment, not a Paypal payment since that is how it appeared on my credit card statement. I don't believe that I was risking getting my Paypal account closed since I did not really use them to pay the charge.

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      • Profile picture of the author GMD
        Banned
        Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

        This does not fit my experience. I paid for a one-year membership in a site with my American Express card through Paypal. For reasons that aren't relevant here, I had to file a chargeback after my requests for a refund were ignored. American Express took my information and handled the problem with Paypal for me. I won the chargeback because the seller did not even file a reply. I never had to interact with Paypal over this dispute.

        To me, this was an American Express payment, not a Paypal payment since that is how it appeared on my credit card statement. I don't believe that I was risking getting my Paypal account closed since I did not really use them to pay the charge.

        Marcia Yudkin
        You did include a lot of information in your post, but the key detail is this:

        Say you were surfing the web and had your little credit card laying beside you. Then you happen upon the website you mentioned, clicked THEIR PayPal button and then made a payment that way, then no, what you did was 100% correct:

        You used your AMEX card and paid PayPal (who in turn put the funds into your seller's account). Therefore, if there's an issue with your purchase, yes, you contact AMEX and do a chargeback.

        The difference here is if you log in to your PayPal account and then using the credit card attached to that account, fund a purchase, therein lies the difference.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
      This may work as well with your debit card, check with your bank. Mine is a visa debit card and I can.

      Originally Posted by GMD View Post

      To expand upon what you've written:

      You'll NEVER lose money IF:

      1. You fund ALL PayPal purchases (including services) with a major credit card.
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      • Profile picture of the author GMD
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Jeannie Crabtree View Post

        This may work as well with your debit card, check with your bank. Mine is a visa debit card and I can.
        That's a great point, thanks for bringing that up. You actually showed me what I should have posted.

        ANY bank debit card that has the Visa or M/C logo (or any major credit card logo) has the same chargeback protections as a "normal" credit card.

        So yes, anything that you use with those logos (even a debit card) would entitle you to protection.
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        • Profile picture of the author tjcreation
          Originally Posted by GMD View Post

          ANY bank debit card that has the Visa or M/C logo (or any major credit card logo) has the same chargeback protections as a "normal" credit card.

          So yes, anything that you use with those logos (even a debit card) would entitle you to protection.
          Just be careful with banks. My bank told me they have a strict 30 day policy. After 30 days you have no recourse so be sure to file any disputes within that time frame.
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  • Profile picture of the author sriram rajan
    if you can use american express, they treat customers like GOLD and listen and credit your transaction immediately
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  • Profile picture of the author adammaxum
    GMD - Shouldn't that entire process happen through paypal? It's pure stupidity on paypals part for having to make the person who has been scammed have to jump through hurdles just to get their money back.

    You're right though. I'm just ranting about paypal, but what's new?
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    • Profile picture of the author J0hnnycl1ckz
      Originally Posted by adammaxum View Post

      GMD - Shouldn't that entire process happen through paypal? It's pure stupidity on paypals part for having to make the person who has been scammed have to jump through hurdles just to get their money back.

      You're right though. I'm just ranting about paypal, but what's new?
      When theres no physical product how can you mediate the claims? If it's a physical product the seller always has shipping receipts and the buyer has money spent. When its a service there is nothing physical to measure and it turns into a he said she said dispute. It's really not hard to file a chargeback. With my bank it took less than 5 minutes and a signature.
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  • Profile picture of the author Awesomo
    I got scammed $350... :'(

    I should have seen the signs coming. I lodged a dispute and the seller told me he will do the job promised so I cancel the dispute. Alas, after doing that, he disappeared and I cannot re-open a dispute.

    But this is a good thread to warn the rest regarding scammers.
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    • Profile picture of the author GMD
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Awesomo View Post

      I got scammed $350... :'(

      I should have seen the signs coming. I lodged a dispute and the seller told me he will do the job promised so I cancel the dispute. Alas, after doing that, he disappeared and I cannot re-open a dispute.

      But this is a good thread to warn the rest regarding scammers.
      It's impossible to say whether or not your $350 can still be saved (depends on the details), but you bring up a VERY VALUABLE lesson:

      If you file a dispute don't file one just to send a warning.

      A dispute with a scammer will sometimes lead to that scammer begging you to close the dispute in exchange for the work actually being completed as promised.

      Then, viola, you close the dispute opening the door to your money and closing the door for you ever getting it back.

      In your situation, the correct reply would have been:

      The dispute will be closed WHEN THE WORK IS DELIVERED to my satisfaction.

      One of two things will happen:

      1. The work will get done and you release the funds or
      2. The "scammer" will vanish and you will win the dispute due to non-response (or in some cases the scammer will still win a PayPal dispute but that's a whole different topic).
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  • Profile picture of the author dadamson
    At least you only lost $150.

    You have got to do at least a little bit of research before going into an agreement with somebody.

    Whether you at least check out reviews from other customers, at least it's something.

    If you don't check them out at all and just pay them and expect them to deliver their promise you need more experience online.

    $150 is a very small price to pay, scammers often get away with hundreds or thousands from people who haven't done the research.
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  • Profile picture of the author lifeisfun
    Hell, in another forum, one of the so called reputable traders had great reviews. I bought a service for him and he completed 50% of the job with 5 stars; the other half, he barely completed and did a really poor job. What I learned is that even if you do your due diligence, you might get burned sometimes. Name of the game I suppose.
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  • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
    If you did check PayPal TOS, you would find out PayPal protection is so limited. They protect you ONLY if you are ordering shipped item, and even that can be manipulated by providing fake tracking id ( send even a message ).

    People misunderstand that PayPal can protect you from scamming, oops PayPal got its limitation.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    I'd imagine that situations like these happen all the time. But i'm glad that you learned from it and shared it with us on the forum so that we know what to look out for the next time we hire someone and pay them via Paypal.
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