Cash cow smoking pot, on crack, going wild!

[Shannon Herod]

So, I started an off-line business and thought I would tell all of you how I did.

I ended up making $17 billion in about two days.

What did I do? I went from business-to-business and told them I was a genius.

I then showed them a number one listing in Google.(it is not even mine)

I told him I would get them to the number one position for their keyword for only 17 bazillion dollars.

Every person I spoke to told me how smart I was and gave me all of their money.

It was cool watching them talking about how much of a God I am.

The funny thing about it is I do not even know how to run a business.

I've never even got a site to the top of Google. How I do that? Can I outsourse it?

Everyone should try this it is so easy to scam and rip off local businesses.

Then, once you make all that money just come to the forum and post a cash cow thread.

Then you put a link in your signature to even make more money.

Make sure you sell a product about making money online. It doesn't matter if you've never made money online before. Just act like you know what you're talking about.

It works really really well.

Regards,

The overly sarcastic - Shannon


Okay, this is where the serious posts starts.

We have seen thread after thread about how easy it is to make money off line. And I would agree that it is very easy. But, I think people are getting the wrong idea. People are looking at how much money they can make off-line.

That should not be the focus. If you are going to go off-line your focus should be on how you can help other businesses. Not about how much money you can make off of them.

Yes, you can go off-line and start making money, but if you are not doing that business any good you are not going to continue to make money. Plus, you are doing that business a disservice. Why? Because you are taking hard-earned cash of theirs and not giving any results.

If you do not know how to market online, do not go and charge a person or business to market their business online.

They may not know the difference now, but when they do not get results they will.

I'm not saying that you should not start an off-line business, I'm just saying you need to learn how to market online first.

Then, you can go and start making money off line.

I have read that most newbies can go and market their services off-line? What? Are you serious.

If you are so new that you can not even make money online what makes you think you can advise a business how they can make money online.

That is just the silliest thing I've ever heard.

I really have not said anything because people are so gung ho about this.

But, as I see more and more of these threads pop up it just is getting under my skin.

If you do not know how to run your own business, Do not go out and sell your services to another business.

You are just going to waste their money and hurt them more than you are going help them.

Regards,

The very serious - Shannon

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Shannon,

I plan on starting to do some offline stuff here soon and plan on letting people know my results....but you know what I'm going to do different?

I'm going to show proof.

I'm going to show a copy of a check, the website that I did work on whether it be having it created or whatever the work performed was.

I don't believe half of the stuff that is posted anymore about the offline world because none of it is backed up with any sort of proof. Even the few times that I have asked to see the website that the person supposable was paid 20 gazillion dollars to have built, they refuse to even give a URL.

Hell, it isn't like you are protecting an online niche or anything...

[Shannon Herod]

Hey Jeremy,

You are exactly right on point.

That was actually the point I was trying to make. I was actually a little sarcastic about it, but the point I was trying to make.

People are using the off-line thread to get attention for themselves. They're making outrageous claims and talking about how unbelievably easy it is.

This is very misleading. And I do not want to see off-line businesses being ripped off by people that do not know what they are talking about.

They may think they are doing this business a service, but if you cannot even run your own business what makes you think you have the right to advise another business.

This is not being said in those threads.

Rather, people are just talking about how easy it is to go to the off-line world and have them give you tons of money.

First, it is not that easy. You still need to know how to sell.

Second, if you do not know how to market your own business you have no right telling another business how to market their business.

But, if you are successfully running a business and can truly help another business go for. But, if you can not run your own business do not think you have the right to advise another business how to run theirs.

That is all I'm trying to say.

Regards,

Shannon Herod

[Jason Moffatt]

Ah man, I must be high or something.

I wanted to read about the weed!

Didn't even see it.

[Sean A McAlister]

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

Ah man, I must be high or something.

I wanted to read about the weed!

Didn't even see it.

No kidding...that is EXACTLY why I came in here.....thought there was some new strain of buds that came out....Damn

[Shannon Herod]

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

Ah man, I must be high or something.

I wanted to read about the weed!

Didn't even see it.

Bro,

Sorry about that. I forgot to mention the secret to doing all this is to be high while doing it.

I also forgot to mention the mushrooms that cash "cow" leaves behind

[TLCarroll]

Ooops.

I thought this thread had something to do with the CNBC documentary I just saw about Mendocino, Ca and growing medicinal m@riju@n@, too!

Sorry.

[jnapier]

I've bought a handful of these offline products. Some are better than others.

I've been working the offline business for a little over a month and HAVE produced more income than I did my 1st 30 days working online. lol - guess you could say all that knowledge I have has been monetized.

When your working offline, your client doesn't even need a website. I have a client who had 1 very old directory listing with the competition. He bought my services and NOW - he's got the whole Front Page for his topic. Not bad for a few hundred dollars.

Jay NaPier

[Chris Whitrod]

Hi Shannon,
You've got it all wrong. You don't need to know how to run a business better than a business owner to be able to offer a VALUABLE service to them. These threads that you are ranting about are not suggesting you should dismiss a business owners capacity to run their own show, or claim that you can run it better than they can.
All they are suggesting is that the vast majority of warriors have skills relating to IM that are far superior to those of your mom and pop offline enterprise. And that there are many ways that you can build real value to their business by marketing more effectively.
Cheers
Chris

[Pete Egeler]

I don't have time to sit around and "photograph my checks" just so you'll believe me. I've got a bank account for my business, and that's where my payments go.

Really don't care if you believe me or not, or if you're feeling all "warm & fuzzy" about the success stories you're reading. The bottom line is, folks like me ARE getting the clients, we ARE banking the money, and we ARE doing the job for our clients that we agreed to do. (That does NOT include promising the number one position on Google!)

You either work the business and deliver, or you don't get any more business.

Pete

[jnapier]

Originally Posted by Pete Egeler

I don't have time to sit around and "photograph my checks" just so you'll believe me. I've got a bank account for my business, and that's where my payments go.

Really don't care if you believe me or not, or if you're feeling all "warm & fuzzy" about the success stories you're reading. The bottom line is, folks like me ARE getting the clients, we ARE banking the money, and we ARE doing the job for our clients that we agreed to do. (That does NOT include promising the number one position on Google!)

You either work the business and deliver, or you don't get any more business.

Pete

Hey Pete,

You really shouldn't take this so personal.

JN

[TimCastleman]

Pete -

You had me at hello. :-)

Tim

[AndrewCavanagh]

Originally Posted by Shannon Herod

That should not be the focus. If you are going to go off-line your focus should be on how you can help other businesses. Not about how much money you can make off of them.

Yes, you can go off-line and start making money, but if you are not doing that business any good you are not going to continue to make money. Plus, you are doing that business a disservice. Why? Because you are taking hard-earned cash of theirs and not giving any results.

Ever since I started that first "Offline Gold" thread on January 1st 2008 that revealed how simple it really is to make money selling your internet marketing services to local businesses I have been thrilled at the number of skilled online marketers who've simply gone out and done it

...made themselves good incomes, got themselves out of debt or really difficult financial situations...the list goes on and on.

But I've also been appalled at the absolute garbage products, WSOs and advice that have appeared from people who have no business sharing expertise they don't have and no interest in helping business owners at all.

And many of these people even had the gall to use the name "Offline Gold" in their products...a name I was the first to use for my first report.

Apparently they thought this name was public domain or something.


You're spot on.

This business model is based around using your internet marketing skills to HELP LOCAL BUSINESSES INCREASE THEIR SALES AND PROFITS.

That's not too difficult.

If you're good at nearly any online marketing skill then you can probably use it to help a local business.

But it makes me want to vomit when I see methods of getting new clients that have no chance of success and marketing methods that are designed to stiff some poor local business owner out of his money and leave him high and dry.

Smart marketers know that if you help a business owner make real profits he will hire you over and over again.

That should be your primary focus...helping business owners make money.

From that everything else will follow.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Pete,

Originally Posted by Pete Egeler

I don't have time to sit around and "photograph my checks" just so you'll believe me. I've got a bank account for my business, and that's where my payments go.

Really don't care if you believe me or not, or if you're feeling all "warm & fuzzy" about the success stories you're reading. The bottom line is, folks like me ARE getting the clients, we ARE banking the money, and we ARE doing the job for our clients that we agreed to do. (That does NOT include promising the number one position on Google!)

You either work the business and deliver, or you don't get any more business.

Pete

Don't get all sensitive on us. I've never seen you make one of the threads that was talked about here, but consider this...

If someone has time to type up one of these long ass posts that has been hitting the board they sure as hell have time to show an example of the website they have "created", right? and yes, that also means that they also have time to make a photocopy of a check.

The only thing that I was personally trying to point out is that not as many people are buying into "it" as you offliners might like to think. Sure, there are people that are getting pain in the offline world here at the forum, I don't doubt that for a second. However, to all of the sudden have 100 new offline moguls in a matter of a month and a half doesn't make sense to me and I'm sure that it doesn't make sense to a majority of the people on this site that have half a brain.

So, all of you offline gurus that want some credibility, stop ducking and dodging questions when people ask them and you just might get it.

But Jeremy, what do you mean????

You ever notice in almost every one of these threads someone will ask a question like "Cool, can you give me a link to the website" which is always followed by....

"I don't think the business owner would like that"

Are you friggen kidding me? I don't know a business owner out there that doesn't want traffic to their site.

I believe that there are some solid people here to learn from like Andrew Cavanaugh, David Preston, and Michael Sylvester, but I think there is a handful of people that are definitely trying to fake it till they make it.

[Andrew Maule]

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

Ah man, I must be high or something.

I wanted to read about the weed!

Didn't even see it.

Same.

BREAKING: Cash cow has been suspended from olympics and lost a sponsorhip....

[Doug English]

Originally Posted by Shannon Herod

That should not be the focus. If you are going to go off-line your focus should be on how you can help other businesses. Not about how much money you can make off of them.

Not sure if this is what you are getting at, but I'd personally like to know how/why doing unsolicited marketing 'offline' is considered pure genius, but doing the same thing online is considered 'spam'.

I'm tired of my postal mailbox being filled with crap every day, and having to post every phone # I have on donotcall.gov

I got a postcard the other day for some stupid crap called downlinebuilderdirectsomethingorother...I never asked for it. Why is it that just because someone paid the postage fees, its considered OK?

[AndrewCavanagh]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

to all of the sudden have 100 new offline moguls in a matter of a month and a half doesn't make sense to me and I'm sure that it doesn't make sense to a majority of the people on this site that have half a brain.

Local business clients are willing to pay a lot of money so it's not hard even as a relative newbie to get paid $1,000 to $3,000+ for your first job.

But apparently once you have your first paying client you are now an expert and you can create your first WSO and start telling everyone how easy it is if they use your "proven" system (which of course doesn't require any effort, cold calling or even talking to business owners in any way).

Many of these people just got lucky in their first week or month then they think they know everything there is to know about selling your services to local businesses and helping local businesses market themselves online.

This is a great business model and you can make a truly exceptional income with little or no risk.

But:

# 1: You are going to have to work hard for your clients. The good consultant will sweat blood over making sure his clients make real profits out of the solutions that he provides.

And when something isn't working to expectations he'll work harder still to come up with a solution that does work.


# 2: You are going to have to talk to business owners.

The fastest way to get hired is to just go talk to business owners (I've said that over and over and over because it's the simple unblemished truth and it's the ONLY thing you really need to know to get hired).

But even if you have a brilliant lead generation system that brings clients to you you'll still need to talk to them to work out what they need, how you can help them and as you progress to make sure that what you've done is getting them results.

THIS WHOLE BUSINESS MODEL HINGES ON THE LONG TERM RELATIONSHIPS YOU BUILD WITH BUSINESS OWNERS.

Anyone who is telling you different is leading you down the long, lonely path to failure.


# 3: From the very first day I've always told people the truth.

You don't need to buy any reports, you don't need any other product...you just need to go talk to business owners and see if they skills you already have can help them make more money.

You can spend thousands of dollars on courses and products but wouldn't it be better to get paid now and start helping business owners now with the skills you already have.

I've seen some brain-dead strategies work like gangbusters for local businesses (someone placing multiple Craigslist ads for a business for example) so it's not too difficult to help a business make money if you're mindset is in the right place and you have some internet marketing expertise in at least one area.

If you have NO internet marketing skills at all I've also said it will take you 2-6 months of research, learning and applying what you learn before you'll have the skill to help a small business (at least in some small way that's valuable).

This whole thing has never been that complicated.

You talk to local business owners and you see if your skills can help them make more sales and profits.

If they can you charge them for your service.

When you make them some good profits you come up with another idea for them and charge them to implement that too.

You also ask for referrals to other business owners they know who might appreciate your help.

That's really the whole business model in a nutshell when you're starting out.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

[Doug English]

Maybe I'm just being too pessimistic, or maybe I'm just not the marketer type (ok I know the latter is true), but in regards the the whole 'offline clients' thing...and maybe I don't understand the point of this thread, but...

I recall a very popular thread about this offline thing a few months ago -it was pretty much "go to your local chamber of commerce & get a list, go thru the phonebook and make a list, etc etc". Is this not any different than doing 'online' things like "scan whois registrars" or "buy a list of email leads online"?

I have every one of my phone #'s listed with donotcall.gov. How many of these people incorporating these offline marketing methods are actually checking w/ that website on a daily basis and doing a scrub against their list?

And for the ones who are doing mailings instead of phone calls, does paying postage really justify unwanted mail? Nobody here would put up with blatant spam via their email, but it seems like nobody seems to mind if its via postal mail?

I know this sounds a bit cynical, but most everyone here seems to complain often about unsolicited emails they receive, but none of the 'advertise offline' posts I see even HINT about this fact, that maybe some people don't want your soliciting?

The first popular 'market offline' thread I recall seeing here said to contact your local chamber of commerce for a list of local businesses to call, but I don't recall anyone suggesting that they scrub this list against donotcall.gov, which of course is now required by US law.

[AndrewCavanagh]

To be fair Bev the main service internet marketers working with local businesses will be compared to is web designers.

And many of them have charged businesses $5,000 to $15,000+ for a website that doesn't produce any sales at all.

If you charge a business say $1,500 for your service and they make back $3,000+ in net profits then you've just given them an exceptional service no matter how messy it looks.

But I agree with you 100%.

You should learn the basic skills before you start trying to sell them...that should be obvious.

The very first post I made on the subject 13 months ago I was pointing out that many Warrior Forum members already have the skills they need to help small business owners.

That was always the target.

People who've spent 3 months or more studying and applying internet marketing who still hadn't made the kind of income they wanted and could genuinely help small businesses with the skills they'd developed.

Coming from a long background of running small businesses myself I've always wanted to see small business owners coming out of these deals way ahead with huge sales and profits from the help they get from internet marketers.

In many cases that's been exactly what has happened.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

[gg282]

As far as I know... Businesses are not protected by the "do not call" legislation. Cold calling businesses is legal.

[Doug English]

Originally Posted by gg282

As far as I know... Businesses are not protected by the "do not call" legislation. Cold calling businesses is legal.

Wow...I never realized that, but just Googled it and the results seemed to agree with you. Guess you learn something new every day. And I learned even more why I'm not your typical marketing guy.

I still don't see how this is any different than buying email leads online, or buying a script to harvest 'business' email email addys, but I guess if its legal.

Doesn't make it right if you ask me, but if it makes a buck...

[BFMedia]

The real question is - what exactly is being accomplished by complaining about the entire situation. Seems like a lot of wasted energy to me!

Are you that upset about people discovering a new form of making money (which in the general state of the world economy isn't a big surprise) that you have to vent about it here in a forum that is full of a great community of people that like to help each other out?

While some of you are here showing your extreme disgust, others are going out and actually doing something. Also, I might point out that some who are complaining appear to be very hypocritical, as their magical "make 50 trillion dollars an hour with my method" ebooks/WSOs are nothing but goldmines for them because they're constantly tricking internet marketing rookies into buying their material. Anyone that denies that is just plain lying. At least hitting the pavement and going business to business, even if you're newer to the IM scene, gives you a legit opportunity to sell BASIC services to small business owners that need them, while putting some cash in your pocket....what's wrong with that?

I can't help but applaud those that are out doing what they need to do to help pay the bills. As someone else said earlier, even some of the newer folks to IM, I GUARANTEE, know a 100 times more about online marketing strategy than the average small business owner (most of whom don't even know how to register a domain name, let alone setup and manage an autoresponder).

So what's the beef? Why are you so disgusted?

I bet it's the fact that you're having an "Oh damn! Why didn't I think of that" moment. Not that you'll admit to it...but I bet there is some truth to that.

How about some of you step down off your proverbial high horse, and instead of trashing people who want to do something a little different, maybe think about legit ideas you can toss in the ring? That would be great!

[4morereferrals]

even some of the newer folks to IM, I GUARANTEE, know a 100 times more about online marketing strategy than the average small business owner (most of whom don't even know how to register a domain name, let alone setup and manage an autoresponder).

So if Im following the logic ... because one KNOWS more than the business owner about internet marketing - this allows one to hold oneself out as a marketing online/offline expert to said client?

Not sure I can roll with that justification.

I know one hell of a lot more about general liability insurance, workers comp, employment practices liability risk transfer and exposures etc ... than EVERY one of my clients. That doesnt give me the right to pretend to be an expert on X Y or Z and deliver fake solutions... I cant just tack "CIC- Certified Insurance Counseler" or "Certif Property Casualty Underwritier - CPCU " designations after my name if I dont have the skillset. Take their money and go to google or rent-an-agent and see if I can come up with the risk transfer solution they need on the fly.

/grim reaper costume ON/

Just an FYI - I sell insurance to site designers and I.T. firms that specialize in doing this stuff all day. Why? Because they can get their asses sued off by clients for screwing stuff up. Lets say you set up a site for a client - telling him her how robust it is .... they get a wild hair two months after theyve last seen you ... and drop $20k on a media buy - print and radio ads - driving prospects to their website. But your makeshift site, on a Hostgator shared server cant scale and all their hits end up with 404's instead of the landing page.

You told them you were the web professional ... You should have KNOWN better than to put them on a low end shared server. They're pissed. They're uncle is an ex construction defect litigator looking for work. He takes the case and sues you to recoup their ad buy and lost revenues - its called - Professional Liability.

Or - the renta coder you hire puts that fancy little php script on their wordpress blog to pop over and grab email addies - but alas, that freeware is riddled with weak points ... and it gets hacked. A real web firm is hired to figure out WTF happened cuz your cell phone has mysteriously gone dark. Site owners kid brother is fresh outta law school and looking for a quick case - you get some nice papers from the local sherrif or process server - fun times.

/ grim reaper hat - OFF/

Be careful and be smart peeps.

[Alan Petersen]

I've always wondered about the work involved handling these offline businesses. Whenever I've asked it's always "it's not that bad". I helped one of my wives friends with his website after a "consultant" quoted him 8K for a Wordpress blog...anyways, he drove me nuts with the change this, change that stuff. Those pushing the "easy" offline stuff say oh you just outsource that. So you sell your services to a client than you outsource it. So you hire WIPRO and have them handle customer support?

It's a good thing we're getting this on the open because there is a lot of BS out there like Andrew and others have already pointed out. Dealing in the offline world when you don't deliver because you were BS'ing these small business--they will sue your butt off so that should be the second wave of postings we'll see: Help I'm getting sued by my offline clients!

And if these offline superstars are selling a "how to" guide online then they should be posting copies of their checks, client websites, etc.

[4morereferrals]

Dealing in the offline world when you don't deliver because you were BS'ing these small business--they will sue your butt off so that should be the second wave of postings we'll see: Help I'm getting sued by my offline clients!

Thanks for the niche Alan ... Im getting my WSO ready!

"You Can Cover Your eBook, and Cover Your Report, but Who's gunna cover your OFFLINE Butt when the lawsuits start rollin in!"

[4morereferrals]

Originally Posted by Detailzdelivered

i have to learn how to bull**** better, i only sell cars now=)

Ha ... to who?

[Jagged]

One thing that always amazed me, especially while the cash cow thread was rolling strong was the amount of posts or threads made by people who said things like...

"I got my first client...now can someone tell me how to add an autoresponder form, or....I'm talking with a restaurant owner...what do I say to him?"

YIKES!! don't ya think ya better know this before hand?
"Just do it" was drilled into them! Many without a clue of what to do after...
Just do it is fine....but "just do it"...after you do your homework & research...without a little knowledge...your only kidding yourself and BS'ing your clients...

Now, I've been doing offline marketing, with much success....I've banked over 50 clients since september....why? I knew what I was talking about! Never once did I once need to post: "how do I do this, or ask....what should I say to a hairdresser". I took the time before I even began to research and build a business. Then I went & got my clients...

Most never realize the time it takes, or other implications like needing to pay taxes on that windfall of $5,000 - $10,000 or more, after they spent it all on themselves....

It's a J.O.B. folks...don't let anyone fool you...take the time to hone your product....and that product is you!

JMO...

Ken

[JohnSpangler]

Hi Everyone,

Jeremy or Alan or Shannon or anyone else you all make great points which was the very reason I created the jobless dad thread to begin with because I hadn't been on the forum since I had been working with the clients offline and I wanted to let this community know that yes there really are "regular joe's" who having success using the offline ideas with the online strategies.

I wasn't sure if folks were just talking theory or if they were putting into practice what they are doing, having an offline business dealing with local companies takes time which doesn't allow me to always be on the forums.

Here are some samples of the clients I am currently working with, this was a full page ad I used in the local coupon book.
and if you click the image you'll see some additional pics and photos.

I just had gotten off a training with one of my local clients, since during the daytime he's managing his local running shoe business-http://insidetrackpa.com and we're working on improving his website. You can also view his video along with a number of other videos on my youtube page at http://youtube.com/lancasterpaguide

This business can be very profitable if you take the time to know your clients and do right by them, each client I work with I get to know who they are and what their goals are moving forward.

Great thread Shannon, I agree 100% that all this offline stuff is great if you are really truly doing that business, out there in the trenches so to speak, talking to them and understanding there concerns, now feb. 2009.

The market has changed even since August especially with the economy but that is a strength I am exploiting because now more than ever local companies want to know they can call someone up and they are there for them and not press 1 for this or press 2 for that etc.

When my clients call me they get me which is a huge unique selling proposition. Plus being local I can drive to their business and see them in person if they need me to because other companies may be out of state or out of the country for all they know.

I hope this helps provide some insight that yes this offline business model works but only if you work.

Nothing happens until you happen.

Andrew stated that so well back in his original post and unfortunately I didn't take action until I absolutely had to or else and I have no idea what I was afraid of because these businesses appreciate talking to me, you can do this business, just make sure you take the time to understand your prospect because they really don't care how much you know until they know how much you care about them.

To your success,

John

[Shannon Herod]

Originally Posted by Pete Egeler

I don't have time to sit around and "photograph my checks" just so you'll believe me. I've got a bank account for my business, and that's where my payments go.

Really don't care if you believe me or not, or if you're feeling all "warm & fuzzy" about the success stories you're reading. The bottom line is, folks like me ARE getting the clients, we ARE banking the money, and we ARE doing the job for our clients that we agreed to do. (That does NOT include promising the number one position on Google!)

You either work the business and deliver, or you don't get any more business.

Pete

Pete,

The point I'm trying to make is there are people that are insisting their experts when they are really the furthest thing from that.

All you hear about on this form and many others is how easy it is to go out and make a fortune off line.

I'm simply bringing a different perspective. I am actually out building an off-line business as we speak. So, I can say from firsthand experience it is not as easy as people make it out to be.

In fact, my online business has made almost 12 times more money this week than my off-line business.

The funny thing though, is I have spent 90% of my time on my off-line business.

Now, with that being said, I would also agree that it is very easy to get off-line clients. But, some of the people that are going out and advising business have no right to advise businesses.

They don't even know how to make money for themselves. So, how are they going to go out and sell their services to teach other people to make money.

It's the same as someone online selling a make money product who has never made money.

But, it has some how became acceptable because they're selling the information to an off-line business who has no clue.

There are legitimate people, with legitimate products, and legitimate businesses teaching a very viable way to make money. But, as it has been pointed out in this thread there are also people that do not have businesses, that do not know how to make money, that do not know how to market products online that are doing the same thing.

It is these people that are doing harm. Is not the legitimate honest people that are doing harm.

It is good to have two sides. From what I have seen, there's only been one side when it comes to the subject. And that side is only how easy it is and how everyone can do it.

What I'm saying, is everyone cannot do it. You need to have a certain skill set. You need to know how to market products online before you can actually advise businesses how they can market their products online.

I was trying to make the example in my original post that if someone came in here teaching how to make money online without actually making money they would be hung.

But, for some reason when someone comes in here that does not know how to make money online talking about how they are teaching businesses to make money online they are congratulated most of the time.

And I have congratulated those people. But, as I see it over and over again I felt a different side should be spoken.

That is all this is about.

Regards,

Shannon Herod

[Jeremy Kelsall]

John, that's what I'm talking about man!

Well done!

Now, there is a man that I believe knows not only what the hell he is talking about, but he also has the results to go along with his "words of wisdom" !

Jeremy

[JohnSpangler]

Hi Shannon,

Great point, I would just add that even if you haven't made money online many of these businesses have no idea what you and I think are basic techniques such as how to track their web traffic, how to set up a blog, how to put video on their website or on youtube etc.

One of my clients was being charged over $80/mo for her 3page website and that was just hosting, nothing else, nada zip zilch, they only called her one time a year to renew her contract.

They were out of state and didn't know them, I came in and I not only provide the webhosting, the videos and everything else I also teach them using adobe connect pro how to info on understanding the web, how to get added into the google local business directory etc.

They were so impressed with what I am doing for them they invited me to speak at the chamber in front of over 30 local businesses (she was the president and I didn't know that till she invited me to be a guest speaker).

As long as you give good value you don't need to be a "guru" so to speak you need to understand at least the basics and you'll be ahead of 98% of the folks who are only out talking to these businesses with their hands out asking for money without really taking the time to help these local companies.

John

[JohnSpangler]

Thanks Jeremy,

I appreciate the kind words but more importantly going back to why I set up the jobless dad post was to let folks know that this business truly can be done but NOT if you are only out for yourself.

Remember these businesses get hit 50x a day by salespeople for everything from copier sales to long distance to yellow page ads to everything in between.

I was talking to one of the business owners and they had gotten 2 calls while I was there from sales people (1 was a yellow page sales person and the other was web design company of all things true story) remember to listen into WIIFM what's in it for me because they won't tune into what your saying until you tell them what's in it for them, why they should listen to you or why/how you're going to help their business.

John

[Jeremy Kelsall]

John,

In a previous life I've done more business to business sales than I care to remember...

Everything from selling commercial collection services to selling leasing services to various companies so, what you say, I know is true

[JohnSpangler]

I didn't really grasp that til after a number of my sales calls and I was in the office going over the next steps with using my services.

WOW did a number of get hit with calls and unannounced appointments etc. I could only imagine having to do that and manage your employees, inventory, vendors, customers plus other day to day operations.

Put everything into a whole new light for me moving forward when I talk to a business owner.

John

[Jared Alberghini]

Shannon,

I was about to smack you sideways, untill I realized your sarcasm... my mistake.

Take it from someone (me) who has been in the 'offline' game since `97... I have learned a thing or twelve along the way, and those who want to get into the 'offline gold' game, you had better do your research... learn how to play the game... be prepared for rejection, which is inevitable... and learn to not sweat the small stuff, & learn as much as you can, and you will succeed.

.jrd

[jan roos]

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

Thanks for the niche Alan ... Im getting my WSO ready!

"You Can Cover Your eBook, and Cover Your Report, but Who's gunna cover your OFFLINE Butt when the lawsuits start rollin in!"

You guys are so paranoid. I have been doing this for only a short while now and guess what I've found?

Web design companies are ripping their clients off. I've seen a company charge a client with a little fudge bussiness 18K for a very simple website, not SEO optimized and no lead capture mechanism. She couldnt pay the 18K and they talked hger down to 12K which she ended up paying. Do you think that site is even close to paying for itself?

Probably not.

Now if it was even a newbie here at the WF building that site it would have had a lead capture mechanism, SEO optimized and also have a call to action on every page. The website would have cost probably around 1-2K since itrs still a "newbie" doing the work.

Then another web designer told me that an autoresponder is something you use when you go on vacation. LOL

Seriously guys, these business owners need us out there, they appreciate everything we do for them so much, they call their web design company to get some basic seo or marketing done and the company say sorry we can't do that.

Bottom line is you are not going to be sued. You're going to be loved most of the time.

Don't let the naysayers get to you, go and talk to some business owners, mention article marketing, video like youtube, autoresponders and basic SEO. It's much more than their web guys can help them with, trust me.


Cheers

[George Wright]

Hi,

A few years back I picked up my mail at the PO and remarked to the clerk, "So much junk mail today." He said, "We don't call it junk mail, we call it revenue." "If it wern't for that mail you would pay double to mail a letter."

Maybe true or not but it sounds Good.

George Wright

Originally Posted by Doug English

Not sure if this is what you are getting at, but I'd personally like to know how/why doing unsolicited marketing 'offline' is considered pure genius, but doing the same thing online is considered 'spam'.

I'm tired of my postal mailbox being filled with crap every day, and having to post every phone # I have on donotcall.gov

I got a postcard the other day for some stupid crap called downlinebuilderdirectsomethingorother...I never asked for it. Why is it that just because someone paid the postage fees, its considered OK?

[jan roos]

Originally Posted by JohnSpangler

Hi Shannon,

Great point, I would just add that even if you haven't made money online many of these businesses have no idea what you and I think are basic techniques such as how to track their web traffic, how to set up a blog, how to put video on their website or on youtube etc.

One of my clients was being charged over $80/mo for her 3page website and that was just hosting, nothing else, nada zip zilch, they only called her one time a year to renew her contract.

They were out of state and didn't know them, I came in and I not only provide the webhosting, the videos and everything else I also teach them using adobe connect pro how to info on understanding the web, how to get added into the google local business directory etc.

They were so impressed with what I am doing for them they invited me to speak at the chamber in front of over 30 local businesses (she was the president and I didn't know that till she invited me to be a guest speaker).

As long as you give good value you don't need to be a "guru" so to speak you need to understand at least the basics and you'll be ahead of 98% of the folks who are only out talking to these businesses with their hands out asking for money without really taking the time to help these local companies.

John

Amen, well said John.

Thats exactly the same experience I've been having. My first client wanted to see how many hits she gets to her website. I installed analatycs on her site which took me 5 minutes. She thinks I'm a genius. lol I then went ahead and mentioned that google owns youtube and that we can make a few videos of her business and its all over the search engines. (which we did)Then I mentioned giving away a free report and capturing contact details. This lady is still ranting and raving about me around town and I'm getting calls from people she knows all the time.

Now let me tell you all something right here. I have never really made any real money online, I have however spent hours upon hours and tons of money on my IM education. I still don't consider myself a good marketer but I know a whole shyt load more than the average web design company that charges 18K for a website.


Just my 2 cents

[Kay King]

What many couldn't seem to understand in that bovine thread was that offline work requires face to face contact. You have to see the business, get to know the owner and let him know you. It's outside sales - and you cannot just sit at home and mail some letters or send a few emails.

I don't think anyone needs to be a high earner online to do well offline but you have to have the basics skills of site building, email marketing, advertising, etc. I couldn't believe some were selling their "services" and then coming to the WF to ask "now what do I do". Knowing more than the average business owner doesn't mean you know enough to do the job well.

I haven't joined the online rush. Not sure I want that much "people contact" though I've done outside sales successfully in the past. If I go the offline route I'll be visiting in person with examples of sites I've built, a sample email series, and a plan for how I can help that particular business owner.

Offline marketing isn't anything new. Willie Crawford posted on the WF about it a couple years ago and his focus was on getting to know the business people and letting them know you. SOSDD

kay

[Bakai]

Many small business owners do not even know about Google local directory (local business center), and have no idea how to make a website. You can make them a simple website for a small fee, use your hostgator affiliate link to make an easy extra $50 or so, and just submit it to the directory and search engines.

Then you will get many who will practically beg you to help them promote it...

Oh yeah, Shannon, you forgot about "on steroids"!

[AndrewCavanagh]

Originally Posted by JohnSpangler

As long as you give good value you don't need to be a "guru" so to speak you need to understand at least the basics and you'll be ahead of 98% of the folks who are only out talking to these businesses with their hands out asking for money without really taking the time to help these local companies.

This is true.

The whole point of the original offline gold thread was to help people who already have some internet marketing skills realize that their skills are of almost unbelievable value to regular brick and mortar businesses.

Also it can be difficult to make some businesses a small fortune by integrating their online and offline marketing but it's not difficult at all to make them several times the fee you charge them when you work out the extra sales and profits you create over say a 12 month period.

For example if you charge a business owner $1,500 to set up something simple if that makes him an extra $30 a week in net profits over a year then he breaks even in just one year (and it's all profit after that).

If it makes him an extra $60 a week in net profits then he's ahead by over $1,500 in year and it's net profits after that.

In businesses with higher transaction values often with just one sale the business owner makes $1,500 to $5,000+ in gross profit.

So while you do need some basic skill you certainly don't need to be an internet marketing guru or a business marketing expert to help a business make good profits over what they pay you.

And that is, after all, the bottom line.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

P.S. Sorry I should have said:

"The bottom line on crack, going wild, on steroids!!!!!!"

[ExRat]

Hi,

The real question is - what exactly is being accomplished by complaining about the entire situation. Seems like a lot of wasted energy to me!

I don't see these two points being made -

a) most 'trends' in this forum create tacky spin-offs and people trying to fake it, but this particular trend seems to have outdone all of them in terms of people feeling they must copy other peoples' taglines - EG cash cow, offline gold, stupidly simple - the lack of originality is totally underwhelming - every time you log into the forum there is a bunch of new cash cow threads.

And once the main cash cow thread disappeared, we get multiple new threads saying, 'to keep the number of cash cow threads down, post your stuff in THIS cash cow thread' - and we get ten of them.

It's as if the OP wants their new thread to become the new cash cow thread and rebrand themselves as the new hero. And once someone sees this, they copy it and try to outdo the other.

b) every one of these threads makes claims about the huge amount of money to be made offline. So why the hell are we being snowed under with people trying to sell their offline recipes online? Why aren't they all busy earning 1000s offline?

Ironic tongue-in-cheek conclusion - if it's so good offline, go offline and stay offline!

[mjbmedia]

Originally Posted by Shannon Herod

That should not be the focus. If you are going to go off-line your focus should be on how you can help other businesses. Not about how much money you can make off of them.

Yes, you can go off-line and start making money, but if you are not doing that business any good you are not going to continue to make money. Plus, you are doing that business a disservice. Why? Because you are taking hard-earned cash of theirs and not giving any results.

If you do not know how to market online, do not go and charge a person or business to market their business online.

They may not know the difference now, but when they do not get results they will.

I'm not saying that you should not start an off-line business, I'm just saying you need to learn how to market online first.

Then, you can go and start making money off line.

I have read that most newbies can go and market their services off-line? What? Are you serious.

If you are so new that you can not even make money online what makes you think you can advise a business how they can make money online.

hey i know this thread was toungue in cheek on DNS with a very serious message in it.
But i strongly feel you can point all these accusations and 'advice' at 99.9% of solely online internet businesses too.

How many people sell ebooks or manuals or training that theyve picked up from PLR products or nicking other peoples articles/newsletter/ training materials content.
how many people sell info products in fields they know absolutely nothing about.

How many unhealthy fat overweight people have bought out products in the health/weight/diet/fitness field?

How many people are in a crap marriage, or unnattached yet write relationship advice books?

How many people write 'how to pick up your perfect girl' type books yet havent got laid for months?

How many products are out there solely in the online market that are just a complete utter total rip off, they dont help the recipient at all, they just leave them frustrated and out of pocket and there can often be little comeback or at worst more hassle than it may be worth.

But hey thats ok cos thats all online and you can all be hidden from view behind pseudonyms and VDU screens if you wanna be.

Offline people who help businesses have already put their name and FACE infront of those business owners, if they dont deliver theyre gonna be recognised around town and the bad feedback will sort them out.
When online businesses dont deliver they get another domain and go and rip someone else off.

Fact is many of these people cant do business face to face just as many people cant do business solely online.

Your underlying message of adding value is of course totally sound, Im dumbstruck by the number of website designers that take money from businesses and deliver them a good looking website that frankly doesnt perform, are the business owners missold or have they just got basically what they asked for?
Thats the reason that offline gold type threads are here

[HeySal]

Crap. I came in here for a few totes to limber my mind up for my appointment tomorrow down the street. He's gonna want someone to be able to build his site for him and I really need the work.

While I'm here, can anyone tell me if there's a difference whether I use <p></p> or <br></br> when I'm setting up a menu of articles?

Maybe you guys can tell me which way the cash cow went so I can pick up a few mushrooms instead?

Why is it people always pick something they CAN'T do instead of something they can do? I can't imagine putting up websites of code, but I can write anything that company needs written. I could probably sweep their carpets better than most janitors, too.

People need to do what they are right for and quit chasing the next damned buck just because some one posted something and it saves them from having to be original enough to form ideas on their own.

There have been cheesy marketers since there has been products to market.

Save the pics of the checks - I can make one and photo it too. I have much more fun seeing you photo yourself in the driver's seat of some luxury sedan you've taken out for a test drive - those are always impressive.

When people start talking about "how much I made and you can copy this", I can feel the fur on my back raising - and that's a good trick because there isn't any fur on my back.

The phrase "one man's trash is another man's treasure" can translate over to "cash cows", too. One person can make a fortune doing something that someone else can copy straight down the line and completely fail at........because it wasn't the right strategy for THEM.

When discussing making money, you can tell who is going to win and who will lose just by watching their reaction to sums of money. Until people get the damned drift that each person's success should be analyzed to see which factors can be successfully integrated into their OWN strategy, we're going to have a world just crammed full of cheesy marketers who are continuously looking to copy someone else to get the BIG BUCKS and never catch on to the fact that they need to learn how to do what is right for THEM if they are going to be successful. Doing something they know nothing about just keeps adding more cheesy marketers to the crowds.

Allen made a fortune creating the Warriors forum - now run out and copy it. You think you can just by knowing the steps he took?
Wanna even try to copy Jo Mo's video spots? I'd like to see that kind of idiocy.
The idiocy I did see was Kevins vids - and those WORK -- for HIM. Not for you.

In EVERY field there are people that will become huge successes doing one thing - and hundreds of others who fail copying every step that person did - because it just isn't suited to them.

Figure out who and what you are. Find your strengths, find your shortcomings -- and be extremely honest about both. Then take tips here and there from other success stories that integrate well with WHO YOU ARE. You don't plan a business on how much money you want to make - you plan a business around YOU and make it make so it makes the money you are looking for. Then you will make those big bucks - because you are doing what you are and you will be lovin' it every step of the way. Any other way and you are only building a disaster waiting to happen.

It takes more than desperation to be rich and an ability to copy cat to be a business success.

Crap. I could have made $250 bucks filling out surveys instead of writing this crud and I still haven't found the smoke either.

[lgibbon]

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi,


I don't see these two points being made -

a) most 'trends' in this forum create tacky spin-offs and people trying to fake it, but this particular trend seems to have outdone all of them in terms of people feeling they must copy other peoples' taglines - EG cash cow, offline gold, stupidly simple - the lack of originality is totally underwhelming - every time you log into the forum there is a bunch of new cash cow threads.

And once the main cash cow thread disappeared, we get multiple new threads saying, 'to keep the number of cash cow threads down, post your stuff in THIS cash cow thread' - and we get ten of them.

It's as if the OP wants their new thread to become the new cash cow thread and rebrand themselves as the new hero. And once someone sees this, they copy it and try to outdo the other.

b) every one of these threads makes claims about the huge amount of money to be made offline. So why the hell are we being snowed under with people trying to sell their offline recipes online? Why aren't they all busy earning 1000s offline?

Ironic tongue-in-cheek conclusion - if it's so good offline, go offline and stay offline!

Spot on there Roger, as yet another cashcow thread is started.
If the truth was know, the ones really making the money,
you never hear a peep from.
Most of these threads just attract the same old people
rattling their sig files.
It's all so predictable.

[GoGetta]

I agree with many points in this thread. Although I do believe that if you are good at something or you have knowledge other people could use, it is good to tell people about it. Just because you have offline skills and are actually being successful in the offline world, it doesn't mean you don't have time to educate people trying to get into it! With marketers that are doing this for real or have been involved in this industry, you can see so clearly who knows there stuff and who doesn't.

The offline world is tough, its not easy! There is also a lot of wasted talented marketers on here that could make a killing offline but are apprehensive and fear the people part, and knowledge from people doing it would most likely help!

If you want to put your knowledge out there to help likeminded individuals there are other ways of doing it rather than a new thread every few minutes. I suppose the original cash cow thread kept all info in there but at the same time made everything in this niche sound a little 2 easy!

The reality is that it is a different ball game when dealing with real people!

Thats my 2 cents anyway!

GoGetta

[ExRat]

Hi Les,

The trouble is, we are only at the first stage.

If we look at what happened with the rich jerk and clickbank products linked to annihilation (and it's non-google spin offs - dayjobkiller, ratrace annihilation (OI!) etc) then we're only at the first stage.

Stage 1 -

Directly related spin offs (google annihilation = google massacre, rich jerk = wealthy jerk)

Stage 2 -

Indirectly related spin offs (google annihilation = yahoo basher, rich jerk = wealthy numpty)

So this means that once the cash cow/stupidly simple/offline gold thing finally burns out, we hit stage two -

ridiculously easy money pig
idiotically effortless dosh buffalo
maniacally manageable moo moolah

If you throw enough cowpats at the wall, some of it will stick.

The point being, if someone liked the fact that certain people created their own original taglines which stick in the memory, should we be inspired to -

a) copy them word for word and jump on the bandwagon

b) reach for the thesaurus and see how many ways we can twist the words so that we can pretend that we have our own bandwagon

c) appreciate the power of originality and catchphrases and apply what we've learnt into a new, original work of our own

The problem with branding is that it's really easy to brand yourself as a bandwagon-hopper, when ironically the real power of using originality is the main lesson that is on display. The ideas weren't particularly new, but the clever, original rebranding of them worked. The cash cow somehow morphed into a dead horse.

[AndrewCavanagh]

Originally Posted by HeySal

While I'm here, can anyone tell me if there's a difference whether I use <p></p> or <br></br> when I'm setting up a menu of articles?


Yes p is code for paragraph, br is code for a line break.

So it's kind of like the difference between one line and too lines.



Why is it people always pick something they CAN'T do instead of something they can do? I can't imagine putting up websites of code, but I can write anything that company needs written. I could probably sweep their carpets better than most janitors, too.

People need to do what they are right for and quit chasing the next damned buck just because some one posted something and it saves them from having to be original enough to form ideas on their own.

This is stunningly simple and brilliant advice.

I'm constantly asked "what ideas should I suggest to this xxx business?"

My answer is always "find out what they want then suggest ideas based around what you know you can do already or you know you can outsource already".

It's really hard to make good money when you keep jumping from one idea to the next and never develop any hardcore specialized skill.

On the other hand once you do develop some real skill making money gets a whole lot easier.

Which one do you hire when you're having trouble with the starter motor on your car...

A highly skilled, highly experienced auto electrician or...

Someone who's read a lot of different car manuals.

Obvious really.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

[Keith Boisvert]

ridiculously easy money pig
idiotically effortless dosh buffalo
maniacally manageable moo moolah

I vote #1. Money pigs rock and are naturally associated with the offline niche.

There are some great points made in this thread.

#1: Andrew's "offline gold" name... Stop using it, it's his. Have some damn respect and keep it out of your product. Come up with something else. "Offline" is ok, but go platinum or something

#2: The op was right in stating about in this niche you should care about the businesses doing well first, and the money will follow.

#3: The 'offline' niche is a trend right now and everyone and their cousin is going to try and ride the bandwagon and make money selling you reports....even if they have no friggin clue what they are doing. Do your homework on the seller. No different than IM products.

#4: The sheer amount of "Cash cow" threads is sickening to me, and I am in the damn niche. We need to ban the words "Cash cow" and "offline gold" from the WF vocabulary(<--joke). We are all marketers...get creative and come up with something new to brand yourself.

So go start your "Offline Money Pigs" thread today, and brand yourself for tomorrow. Get off the coattails and make your own name

Keith

ps: Don't take anything I say too seriously, I am overtired and been drinking cough syrup for hours.

[jasonl70]

I too feel like a lot of these people are ripping off their clients.

I've actually been doing this as my day job for a few years. Well, not this exactly, but close enough. Besides being the internet marketing director for an auto dealer, I do similar work for a handfull of other clients. I built a lead generation site for a local company back in december, and they made an extra 10k in profit that first month from it (and I still have 2 more of those sites to build for them).

So I KNOW how valuable these skills are to bricks & mortar companies.

The difference is, I DO have sites #1 on google, I DO build lists and make money from my aweber autoresponder, I DO use ppc for my own profitable campaigns, I can show people in google analytics the extra traffic driven to a local site when I posted relevant content to craigslist or youtube (and how many converted to leads), I can show them actual results from split testing.

Here's the deal. If you can't "walk the walk", you shouldn't "talk the talk". It's NOT as easy as simply adding an autoresponder to a web page - if it were, you'd already be making money online.

To do these clients right, you need to know how to find the right keywords, see which ones actually convert, onpage and offpage seo around them, analyze the comeptition, and drive targeted traffic.

If you can ACTUALLY do this, then you wouldn't you already be making money online?

If you aren't actually making money online, then you are only a webmaster who can talk-the-talk of online marketing. Or you're like most consultants - selling a bunch of empty promises and dreams.

heck - maybe I'm being too negative here. I just got off the phone with my son's teacher, and I'm in a bad mood LOL