Poor-quality presentation = poor-quality software (usually)

NicheSiteCreator · 02-06-2009, 04:09 AM

If a software producer cannot even bother to ensure that correctly spelled English is used when trying to promote it, consider how much care might have been taken when writing the software product itself.

There is far too much software on sale which is bug-ridden, quirky, or just too difficult to use because it has not been designed well. This situation harms experienced professional software developers.

MsAngry · 02-06-2009, 04:16 AM

If anyone's developing software and wants to avoid common mistakes within a UI, I strongly recommend:

GUI Bloopers 2.0: Common User Interface Design Don'ts and Dos (Interactive Technologies) (Paperback)
by Jeff Johnson (Author)

It's on amazon.

It's packed with what not to dos, and is fun to read, without being too humourous.

I use it to back up my opinions when I'm writing my usability reports for software.

GeorgR. · 02-06-2009, 05:03 AM

uhm...its more complex, really.

Firstly, being a non english native speaker myself i dont think that comparison really fits. You might be surprised how many good software developers are out there who are NOT 100% fluent in english.
(Other story of course if the programmer IS a native english speaker ...

Furthermore, there are so many factors to consider w/ developing.

Just one example: I can have a PHP script which runs awesome under some version of PHP on any of my OWN hosting where i develop.

Now it happened a few times already that the same software/script does not work 100% on some customer's hosting since their configuration is different, they have another PHP version, and so forth.

Same with OS and PC windows configurations., you never know what small thing it is on the other machine which could break your whole software.

Thomas Belknap · 02-06-2009, 05:23 AM

Most software programmers are not marketers.

It has nothing to do with the quality of their work. I have had misspellings on my sales pages and software manuals. Luckily my customers can get past the trivial stuff and are happy knowing that I spend more time on the software.

I think you may have been passing up great software because of your ignorance.

NicheSiteCreator · 02-06-2009, 05:52 AM

Poor knowledge of English is no excuse. If the software producer's English is not good enough for its proper presentation, it costs comparatively little to have it proof-read. It is folly to "spoil the ship for a half-penny worth of tar".

A worthy product deserves good presentation. I have found good software that was presented well. I have found poor software that was presented poorly -- as most of it is. I have yet to find poor software presented well, or good software presented poorly.

In almost all cases the one is the measure of the other. Professionalism, or the lack of it, is an attitude, not an attribute which can be applied to one aspect of a product and not to another like a coat of paint.

Thomas Belknap · 02-06-2009, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicheSiteCreator

Poor knowledge of English is no excuse. If the software producer's English is not good enough for its proper presentation, it costs comparatively little to have it proof-read. It is folly to "spoil the ship for a half-penny worth of tar".

A worthy product deserves good presentation. I have found good software that was presented well. I have found poor software that was presented poorly -- as most of it is. I have yet to find poor software presented well, or good software presented poorly.

In almost all cases the one is the measure of the other. Professionalism, or the lack of it, is an attitude, not an attribute which can be applied to one aspect of a product and not to another like a coat of paint.

Ignorance is bliss.

MsAngry · 02-06-2009, 05:58 AM

My (soon to end

) day job is to evaluate interfaces (web, touchscreen, desktop app) for usability from a design, information architecture, interaction design and user experience perspective... if anyone ever needs a review, you know where I am (...apart from working on my ebooks

)

NicheSiteCreator · 02-06-2009, 06:24 AM

Thank you for that offer, MsAngry. I'd appreciate your opinion on the Abacus products, if you can spare the time. If you search for "nichesitecreator", you'll find the link in the first position. At the foot of the page are links to the products. The first two products, "Keyword Assistant" and "Landing Page Creator" are available now. The third, "AdWords Campaign Manager", is currently in development. The "AdWords Campaign Creator" and "Niche Site Creator" will be available soon.

Have a blissful life, Thomas!

artwebster · 02-06-2009, 06:24 AM

I could have some sympathy with the point of view that started this stream BUT HAVE YOU READ ANY SALES LETTERS LATELY?

There are many English speakers who seem to think that it is clever to use slang, inappropriate abreviations, hopeless sentence struture, miss-placed apostrophes, superfluous capitalisation, multiple reiterations - do I need to go on?

OMG!, WTF? Does it really matter any more? Ain't it true that education sucks? Just gimme a star and move on. I often feel like tossing my cookies when I see the c r @ p blasted to my mail box. However, complain and get dissed.

Traffic-Bug · 02-06-2009, 06:40 AM

Not necessarily. I have come across useful programs and their authors were Russian with broken English.

Glenn Leader · 02-06-2009, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artwebster

I could have some sympathy with the point of view that started this stream BUT HAVE YOU READ ANY SALES LETTERS LATELY?

There are many English speakers who seem to think that it is clever to use slang, inappropriate abreviations, hopeless sentence struture, miss-placed apostrophes, superfluous capitalisation, multiple reiterations - do I need to go on?

OMG!, WTF? Does it really matter any more? Ain't it true that education sucks? Just gimme a star and move on. I often feel like tossing my cookies when I see the c r @ p blasted to my mail box. However, complain and get dissed.

Sales letters are not novels or essays, they're designed to make sales. In order to do that, the bar has to be dropped. In addition to this, and I talk about myself here, I'm more techie than a writer, and I'll describe my products in a way that I can get my message across. Do I worry about sentence structure or proper grammar? Nope. I don't know a noun from a verb! I'm not gonna let that from stopping me selling good quality products that are highly usable.

I used to work with somebody who constantly told me off for using bad grammar when I was on the phone to my customers. The customers couldn't care less about how I spoke, so long as I could solve their problems.

Glenn

Robert Puddy · 02-06-2009, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artwebster

I could have some sympathy with the point of view that started this stream BUT HAVE YOU READ ANY SALES LETTERS LATELY?

There are many English speakers who seem to think that it is clever to use slang, inappropriate abreviations, hopeless sentence struture, miss-placed apostrophes, superfluous capitalisation, multiple reiterations - do I need to go on?

OMG!, WTF? Does it really matter any more? Ain't it true that education sucks? Just gimme a star and move on. I often feel like tossing my cookies when I see the c r @ p blasted to my mail box. However, complain and get dissed.

Well written adcopy should speak to your prospect not to your english professor...

Its a conversation your having in your prospects head, not a dissertaton

Robert

PS: Find the typos and spelling mistakes in this post and earn a $1000.00 trial in one of my programs, cc details required

Thomas Belknap · 02-06-2009, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicheSiteCreator

Thank you for that offer, MsAngry. I'd appreciate your opinion on the Abacus products, if you can spare the time. If you search for "nichesitecreator", you'll find the link in the first position. At the foot of the page are links to the products. The first two products, "Keyword Assistant" and "Landing Page Creator" are available now. The third, "AdWords Campaign Manager", is currently in development. The "AdWords Campaign Creator" and "Niche Site Creator" will be available soon.

Have a blissful life, Thomas!

I already do and reported your post for self promotion. Nice try but I already saw this coming when I read your OP.

MsAngry · 02-06-2009, 07:12 AM

sorry, I misunderstood the intent of the OPs post

- new to here..

I'm happy to comment on screenshots of products when people need some genuine guidance, - if they send me the screenshots. I've seen lots of good products have their perceived quality eroded because of basic UI mistakes - I'm not doing all the donkey work, downloading and installing products, reviewing the screenshots and offering free advice... haven't got the time for that....or the will...

NicheSiteCreator · 02-06-2009, 07:57 AM

Nothing was "coming" as regards self-promotion. It was, and is, a substantiated observation of genuine interest. If MsAngry had not made the offer, no products would have been mentioned. Note that there is no self-serving advertisement or link at the foot of my posts!

Johnny Slater · 02-06-2009, 07:57 AM

What most people fail to understand is that very very few programmers are marketers or even understand anything at all about marketing. Most programmers are just that... programmers. The vast majority of them devote all their time to their chosen craft, spending every second of free time learning what they can about programming.

If a non programmer hires out work to get a program created then it is on the non programmer to work with the programmer to create the UI in a way that is usable and understandable. If the seller is the programmer then they should hire out copy writing to someone who understands the market and can write copy tailored to the market.

It is not fair to anyone to paint with a broad stroke and lump all sellers under the same brush. Although there are a few of us who write programs and then sell them to the general public, the vast majority of programmers are outsource workers who take work for hire. If the programmer is writing a program for someone else then he/she is only responsible for whats in the program itself.

There is no connection between ad copy and usability of software, none at all.

02-06-2009, 04:09 AM	#1
NicheSiteCreator Warrior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Poor-quality presentation = poor-quality software (usually) If a software producer cannot even bother to ensure that correctly spelled English is used when trying to promote it, consider how much care might have been taken when writing the software product itself. There is far too much software on sale which is bug-ridden, quirky, or just too difficult to use because it has not been designed well. This situation harms experienced professional software developers.
	Last edited by NicheSiteCreator; 02-06-2009 at 04:14 AM. Reason: tag change

02-06-2009, 04:16 AM	#2
MsAngry Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 44 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Poor-quality presentation = poor-quality software (usually) If anyone's developing software and wants to avoid common mistakes within a UI, I strongly recommend: GUI Bloopers 2.0: Common User Interface Design Don'ts and Dos (Interactive Technologies) (Paperback) by Jeff Johnson (Author) It's on amazon. It's packed with what not to dos, and is fun to read, without being too humourous. I use it to back up my opinions when I'm writing my usability reports for software.

02-06-2009, 05:03 AM	#3
GeorgR. Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Earth Posts: 2,550 Thanks: 10 Thanked 201 Times in 131 Posts Social Networking	Re: Poor-quality presentation = poor-quality software (usually) uhm...its more complex, really. Firstly, being a non english native speaker myself i dont think that comparison really fits. You might be surprised how many good software developers are out there who are NOT 100% fluent in english. (Other story of course if the programmer IS a native english speaker ... Furthermore, there are so many factors to consider w/ developing. Just one example: I can have a PHP script which runs awesome under some version of PHP on any of my OWN hosting where i develop. Now it happened a few times already that the same software/script does not work 100% on some customer's hosting since their configuration is different, they have another PHP version, and so forth. Same with OS and PC windows configurations., you never know what small thing it is on the other machine which could break your whole software.
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02-06-2009, 05:23 AM	#4
Thomas Belknap Mr. Cueball War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: , , . Posts: 3,215 Thanks: 23 Thanked 291 Times in 166 Posts	Re: Poor-quality presentation = poor-quality software (usually) Most software programmers are not marketers. It has nothing to do with the quality of their work. I have had misspellings on my sales pages and software manuals. Luckily my customers can get past the trivial stuff and are happy knowing that I spend more time on the software. I think you may have been passing up great software because of your ignorance.
	Thomas

02-06-2009, 05:52 AM	#5
NicheSiteCreator Warrior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Poor-quality presentation = poor-quality software (usually) Poor knowledge of English is no excuse. If the software producer's English is not good enough for its proper presentation, it costs comparatively little to have it proof-read. It is folly to "spoil the ship for a half-penny worth of tar". A worthy product deserves good presentation. I have found good software that was presented well. I have found poor software that was presented poorly -- as most of it is. I have yet to find poor software presented well, or good software presented poorly. In almost all cases the one is the measure of the other. Professionalism, or the lack of it, is an attitude, not an attribute which can be applied to one aspect of a product and not to another like a coat of paint.

02-06-2009, 05:58 AM	#7
MsAngry Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 44 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Poor-quality presentation = poor-quality software (usually) My (soon to end ) day job is to evaluate interfaces (web, touchscreen, desktop app) for usability from a design, information architecture, interaction design and user experience perspective... if anyone ever needs a review, you know where I am (...apart from working on my ebooks )

02-06-2009, 06:24 AM	#8
NicheSiteCreator Warrior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Poor-quality presentation = poor-quality software (usually) Thank you for that offer, MsAngry. I'd appreciate your opinion on the Abacus products, if you can spare the time. If you search for "nichesitecreator", you'll find the link in the first position. At the foot of the page are links to the products. The first two products, "Keyword Assistant" and "Landing Page Creator" are available now. The third, "AdWords Campaign Manager", is currently in development. The "AdWords Campaign Creator" and "Niche Site Creator" will be available soon. Have a blissful life, Thomas!

02-06-2009, 06:24 AM	#9
artwebster Brutal honesty's me Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Coín, Spain Posts: 1,012 Blog Entries: 4 Thanks: 27 Thanked 232 Times in 125 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Poor-quality presentation = poor-quality software (usually) I could have some sympathy with the point of view that started this stream BUT HAVE YOU READ ANY SALES LETTERS LATELY? There are many English speakers who seem to think that it is clever to use slang, inappropriate abreviations, hopeless sentence struture, miss-placed apostrophes, superfluous capitalisation, multiple reiterations - do I need to go on? OMG!, WTF? Does it really matter any more? Ain't it true that education sucks? Just gimme a star and move on. I often feel like tossing my cookies when I see the c r @ p blasted to my mail box. However, complain and get dissed.
	You might not like what I say - but I believe it. Build it, make money, then build some more Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!

02-06-2009, 06:40 AM	#10
Traffic-Bug Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 929 Thanks: 0 Thanked 44 Times in 39 Posts Social Networking	Re: Poor-quality presentation = poor-quality software (usually) Not necessarily. I have come across useful programs and their authors were Russian with broken English.

02-06-2009, 07:12 AM	#14
MsAngry Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 44 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Poor-quality presentation = poor-quality software (usually) sorry, I misunderstood the intent of the OPs post - new to here.. I'm happy to comment on screenshots of products when people need some genuine guidance, - if they send me the screenshots. I've seen lots of good products have their perceived quality eroded because of basic UI mistakes - I'm not doing all the donkey work, downloading and installing products, reviewing the screenshots and offering free advice... haven't got the time for that....or the will...
	Last edited by MsAngry; 02-06-2009 at 07:13 AM. Reason: typo

02-06-2009, 07:57 AM	#15
NicheSiteCreator Warrior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Poor-quality presentation = poor-quality software (usually) Nothing was "coming" as regards self-promotion. It was, and is, a substantiated observation of genuine interest. If MsAngry had not made the offer, no products would have been mentioned. Note that there is no self-serving advertisement or link at the foot of my posts!

02-06-2009, 07:57 AM	#16
Johnny Slater Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Alabama, USA. Posts: 2,286 Thanks: 45 Thanked 100 Times in 62 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Poor-quality presentation = poor-quality software (usually) What most people fail to understand is that very very few programmers are marketers or even understand anything at all about marketing. Most programmers are just that... programmers. The vast majority of them devote all their time to their chosen craft, spending every second of free time learning what they can about programming. If a non programmer hires out work to get a program created then it is on the non programmer to work with the programmer to create the UI in a way that is usable and understandable. If the seller is the programmer then they should hire out copy writing to someone who understands the market and can write copy tailored to the market. It is not fair to anyone to paint with a broad stroke and lump all sellers under the same brush. Although there are a few of us who write programs and then sell them to the general public, the vast majority of programmers are outsource workers who take work for hire. If the programmer is writing a program for someone else then he/she is only responsible for whats in the program itself. There is no connection between ad copy and usability of software, none at all.