What do you think about the new No-Bump rule?

[Tamer]

Hi...

Allen have announced that there will be no more bumping for WSOs.

please remember that bumping no longer works. Do not keep your PM and pay for it again thinking it will bump. It will not.

Save all your testimonials and just repost again when your WSO gets off page 2. No problem.

Bumping was nice and easy, but it's over...

Thank you for understanding..
Allen

While I'm not questioning Allen's decision (its HIS forum)...

I'm just wondering how others are going to be handling this?

Because it was an immediate social proof ... "Bumping" have generated THOUSANDS of dollars for HUNDREDS of successful WSOs (myself included )

Sure, copying and pasting testimonials will work fine... but is it as good as reading the testimonials directly in the thread?

Please vote

Tamer

[crystalq]

Yeah thats probably the only downer to the new move,
now we have to copy everything then repost.

I vote for bumping.

[lakshaybehl]

I think this is a good decision because this way newer WSO's will get better exposure and more opportunity to stay on top!

[Rufus Steele]

I'd agree with Lakshay

Skimming through the front page for new WSOs was starting to become a fine art in observation.

Can see how those with huge successes would be peeved but - I favour the clean approach.

[Tim Franklin]

I believe that it is a good move, for many reasons.

The WSO forum was beginning to look like every topic was on Fire, often it was hard to find the WSOs that I was really interested in, because of all the bumps, (that I was not really interested in viewing)

I like it, sort of levels the playing field and creates a better marketing situation.

[brad.banks]

Originally Posted by lakshaybehl

I think this is a good decision because this way newer WSO's will get better exposure and more opportunity to stay on top!

how so? just because it takes a little extra effort to repost your wso doesn't mean people's who are successful won't do so.

are the wso's disappearing forever after they leave page 2? why could you not just link the older versions of your wso when referencing the testimonials? as long as everyone has the same set of rules..its cool!

[Tamer]

Originally Posted by lakshaybehl

I think this is a good decision because this way newer WSO's will get better exposure and more opportunity to stay on top!

That's a good point of view
Tamer

[Glenn Leader]

IMHO, it levels the playing field for new WSO's. At least people can now see the wood from
the trees.

I noticed that some WSO's were being bumped for months on end, the the owner bragging
about how many views and comments he received. All in the name of making his product
looking more popular than it actually was.

Just my Tuppence Worth.

Glenn

[KarlWarren]

I never did like 'the bump' - I can see the benefits, I can see the disadvantages.

Ultimately, it's all marketing and those of us who are good at it will always learn
how to make money using the tools available to us at any given time.

Kindest regards,
Karl.

[Bev Clement]

I agree with Glenn there were certain people saying there WSO was the most popular one every because they had xxxxxx number of views and yyyyy number of sales. What they didn't say was that they had been running the wso for almost 6 months.

The bumping caused some people to only rely on the wso for an income, which is never a good thing.

[BIG Mike]

All things considered, I prefer no bumping....

[Mark McWilliams]

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

All things considered, I prefer no bumping....

I'm with you on this one Mike!...

While we've already had this discussion back on the 'old' forum, it almost (In a way!) kinda defeated the purpose of a WSO. It's a special offer for warriors, not an offer that get reposted another 10 times. (If you know what I'm saying!)

Anyway, it's just my 2cents worth!

Thanks
Mark

[Anup Mahajan]

I am about to do a WSO, so this couldn't have come at a better time

Having said that I agree that it would give new WSO's a better exposure and an opportunity to stay on top. If the same WSO runs for months it doesn't remain "Special".

Just my 0.02

Cheers,
Anup

[Bryan Kumar]

Originally Posted by KarlWarren

Ultimately, it's all marketing and those of us who are good at it will always learn
how to make money using the tools available to us at any given time.

You mean there are OTHER marketing techniques/strategies besides bumping??
Ah had no idea!
;-)

[TheManicMarketer]

I think it is going to be a case of "Wait and See". While I agree that it will level the playing field somewhat it only takes a repost at the same cost to get you back up there if my understanding is correct so no real difference.

[schabotte]

I'm happy with the repost option. It is a little extra work in that I need to go grab my content and put it in another message - but that is also a little extra incentive to make tweaks and such.

With the bump, it it was all too easy to just bump it and say good enough and move on to the next project.

The only thing I'm wondering is how often will the WSO forum get purged of old posts... and here's why.

When doing WSOs, we link our signatures to them. So, when do I need to edit my signature? Every time I repost the WSO? Once every purge which happens to all posts older than X days? Or never?

It would be good to know so we don't have to invest time tweaking our signature line constantly.

[pjs]

Originally Posted by schabotte

I'm happy with the repost option. It is a little extra work in that I need to go grab my content and put it in another message - but that is also a little extra incentive to make tweaks and such.

With the bump, it it was all too easy to just bump it and say good enough and move on to the next project.

The only thing I'm wondering is how often will the WSO forum get purged of old posts... and here's why.

When doing WSOs, we link our signatures to them. So, when do I need to edit my signature? Every time I repost the WSO? Once every purge which happens to all posts older than X days? Or never?

It would be good to know so we don't have to invest time tweaking our signature line constantly.

These are exactly the questions I was looking to have answered. Anyone know the answer to these?

[Angela V. Edwards]

It would depend on if we have to go and "close" the WSO once it gets on the third page before reposting it. If we didn't, conceivably, we could have the same WSO on every other page.

[Johnny Slater]

Bumping did have its place. For example, my WSO on SMP I plan on letting run until I have the public release ready. For that I could easily bump it when needed and not go through reposting everything again.

However, as mentioned there were many people who had 5 or 6 WSO's running at the same time and bumped them every few days, for months at a time. The old bump rules allowed people to keep their WSO's going forever making them the only source of income.

The new rules, which I'm sure Allen isn't done with the WSO changes, encourage people to not rely on the WSO as an only source of income as well as making it at least a little harder for those who do rely on it for income.

All in all I think it is a welcome and needed change and look forward to seeing what Allen comes up with next to keep the WSO forum as a valuable section of the forum.

[Frank Bruno]

For those that have been bumping wso's, the xtra fire and view count definitely has increased sales,something no marketer would want to turn away.

However some wso's were bumping exactly after 2nd page with 2 or 3 at a time.

Although I'm sure they were profitable to bump quickly it started to get really annoying seeing that.

Frank Bruno

[Noah Fleming]

Bumping in my opinionwas getting pretty frustrating and causing me stop browing the WSO forum. It was just too confusing to go through them all and try and figure it out what was new, a repost or a bump.

[Michael Lee]

No bumping is ok with me. I think the bumping rule would be a little disadvantageous to those new WSOs. All those fiery threads get more attention; hence, those new posts have lesser chances of getting noticed.

Just my 2 cents.

[Kay King]

Unless there's been a recent change, I believe WSO's are live for 3 weeks after being posted.

The "bump rule" was rather recent and hotly debated - I won't miss it.

Prior to the bump rule, there were a very few sellers who would post the same WSO product every few days with a different subject line. Thus, you would have 3-4 WSO threads that looked unique but which were offering the same product - very confusing. I hope the requirement now will be that you must close your WSO or wait for it to expire before reposting it. We'll see.

kay

[Angela V. Edwards]

Actually, Kay...Allen said the WSO could be reposted after it left page two. I am wondering if we have to close our old WSOs out. If we didn't, we would have multiples of the same WSO running at once; every other page, in some cases.

[Jean Morgan]

I always felt that there should have been a limit on the number of times a WSO could be bumped. Three sounded good to me and after that move it over to Warrior classifieds as really that was what it was leaving the WSO forum for limited time special offers, product testing, sales page testing etc.
Some were running for months on end and I either had them or had no interest in them making it difficult to see the newer stuff. Such WSO's were clearly using the WSO forum as the main source of their income but having said that, if they did not continue to sell would they have been bumped over and over again?

Just my thoughts

[SunTzu82]

I'm gonna have to go ahead and agree and disagree with all of you! While bumping WSO's may have overshadowed the newer ones a bit, everyone had the option to bump so it was fair game. On the other hand it was a pain in the a.. to sift through them and to see the same ones there over and over.

[Jelasco]

Are you talking about paying to have the WSO bumped, or just posting more replies to it to get it noticed?

As a buyer, I would rather have the offers listed in the order they were originally posted, so it's easier to tell which ones I've already seen.

[Dean Shainin]

Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards

Actually, Kay...Allen said the WSO could be reposted after it left page two. I am wondering if we have to close our old WSOs out. If we didn't, we would have multiples of the same WSO running at once; every other page, in some cases.

Does anyone else see the issue here with what Angela is saying?

From my point of view it will be even more difficult to see a brand new WSO from an old one.

Why?

It was so easy to see a new WSO because there were not dozens of posts and hundreds of views in most cases when a new WSO was posted.

Very easy for me to find new offers.

Now we will have re-posting of old WSO's without the prior stats making it more difficult to see if it's new or an older WSO.

I did not care for the original "bump" idea but I think it was to make it easier on the WSO mods so they would not have to review a WSO that was already reviewed.

Are new WSO now going be reviewed at all?



Here's the new rules posted by Allen...

We have a new way of posting WSO's now...

1. You click on New Thread
2. Choose how many posts you want to make - maximum of 3
3. You pay through PayPal
4. You get sent back to the forum after paying and can submit your wso and it goes live instantly.

Have your WSO ready BEFORE You Pay....

You will be posting it right after your pay the posting fee so have it ready to go...

Thanks!

Allen




Cheers,
Dean

[MikeLantz]

I missed the previously hotly debated threads on this issue, but let me weigh in here...

While there are many good reasons for/against "WSO bumping", I think the biggest reason I liked it was because it prevented tons of new threads for the same product.

It is much easier to keep track of WSOs you have bought previously or already looked at if there are not multiple threads being started for the same offer weeks on end.

The "bumping" effect clearly is just a simple form of a "featured ad", which definitely adds to sales of a particular product.

Anyway, bumping is technically possibly with this forum software, along with a whole host of other options that were not possible with Snitz. So, I am sure there will be more changes in how things work in the future.

As it was said, it doesn't matter how the system works, smart marketers will always find a way to stand out with whatever resources they have available.

Mike

[Jason_V]

I liked bumping. I think it provided more value to the potential buyers, because all the questions/answers/testimonials were in the thread. Now, all of this has to be placed in the sales letter or in the first post by the seller. In my opinion, it's harder to read through that, then it was to look at the posts by the actual poster in the thread.

I'm just happy there still is a WSO section, considering how close Allen was to pulling the plug on it a while ago. I did notice, the page views and the amount of WSO's being run in the new WSO section are Waaaay down, compared to the old forum. I'm not fully understanding it.

Jason

[Angela V. Edwards]

I think that's just because everything is new, Jason. Right now, I have two WSOs on the OLD forum that work fine; I've linked to them in my signature file. I don't think it'll stay way down; you can see how many people are viewing the WSO forum, and it seems to be 350 or more at any one given time.

I think it'll really take off as people get used to things around here.

[Tamer]

Frankly... I'm more confused than before starting this poll

As anything in life... it has its advantages and disadvantages...

Most voters are "OK" with the non-Bumping rule...
(me too by the way, But i just didn't want to vote).


However... there are few points of view that made me hesitant:
1- Jason_V: "I liked bumping. I think it provided more value to the potential buyers, because all the questions/answers/testimonials were in the thread."

2- MikeLantz: " I think the biggest reason I liked it was because it prevented tons of new threads for the same product. "

" As it was said, it doesn't matter how the system works, smart marketers will always find a way to stand out with whatever resources they have available. "

3- Dean Shainin: "it will be even more difficult to see a brand new WSO from an old one."
"It was so easy to see a new WSO because there were not dozens of posts and hundreds of views in most cases when a new WSO was posted."

4- Jean Morgan: "I always felt that there should have been a limit on the number of times a WSO could be bumped. Three sounded good to me and after that move it over to Warrior classifieds as really that was what it was leaving the WSO forum for limited time special offers, product testing, sales page testing etc."

5- Angela V. Edwards: "Allen said the WSO could be reposted after it left page two. I am wondering if we have to close our old WSOs out. If we didn't, we would have multiples of the same WSO running at once; every other page, in some cases."

6- Johnny Slater: "The old bump rules allowed people to keep their WSO's going forever making them the only source of income.

The new rules, which I'm sure Allen isn't done with the WSO changes, encourage people to not rely on the WSO as an only source of income as well as making it at least a little harder for those who do rely on it for income."

Very valid point of views everybody... thanks for your inputs/votes

Tamer

[admin]

Just figured I'd throw this in here - I always liked bumping. The only reason it isn't here is because I haven't figured out how to do it - yet.

[dustinlemos]

I don't see what the difference is. Instead of bumping a thread for six months, people will just post duplicate WSOs for six months. At worst it will clutter the archives with identical threads, but that's it.

[Tamer]

Originally Posted by admin

Just figured I'd throw this in here - I always liked bumping. The only reason it isn't here is because I haven't figured out how to do it - yet.

Then with all due respect to your programmers who have done EXCELLENT JOBS... you need to add 1 more talented coder to the team!

This particular forum software is VERY flexible, and almost ANY plug-in you can DREAM of, it CAN be created (at least this is from my own experience).

I would do it for you, if i wasn't on a strict deadline...


But really... with coders... (and I guess most programmers would agree),
when someone tells you its not possible... simply ask another one (or more).

More likely than not, you'll find someone who is creative enough to say: YES I CAN DO IT

I hope that this reply won't be understood as an "attack" to any coder at your team... the transfer process by itself was a BIG headache (I'm sure about this)... and apparently they/he have done a GREAT job.


But if you are convinced that "something" is good for your forum...
then keep your antennas looking until you find the "right channel".

Best wishes,

Tamer

[BIG Mike]

I miss the old days when a WSO thread was bumped normally, i.e.; someone posted to it. If you had a popular offer, it got a lot more exposure based on it's value percieved by the members.

Of course it also got abused...a lot

Like others have said, bumping is a marketing tool and if Allen brings it back, I'll use it. If he doesn't bring it back, I won't miss it.

[admin]

Originally Posted by timtim2500

Then with all due respect to your programmers who have done EXCELLENT JOBS... you need to add 1 more talented coder to the team!

This particular forum software is VERY flexible, and almost ANY plug-in you can DREAM of, it CAN be created (at least this is from my own experience).

I would do it for you, if i wasn't on a strict deadline...


But really... with coders... (and I guess most programmers would agree),
when someone tells you its not possible... simply ask another one (or more).

More likely than not, you'll find someone who is creative enough to say: YES I CAN DO IT

I hope that this reply won't be understood as an "attack" to any coder at your team... the transfer process by itself was a BIG headache (I'm sure about this)... and apparently they/he have done a GREAT job.


But if you are convinced that "something" is good for your forum...
then keep your antennas looking until you find the "right channel".

Best wishes,

Tamer

Finding one is not quite as easy as it sounds Tamer :-)

Trust me I've talked with tons of them over the last two weeks. I have one that's promising and something may work out with him...

[Tamer]

Originally Posted by admin

Finding one is not quite as easy as it sounds Tamer :-)
Trust me I've talked with tons of them over the last two weeks. I have one that's promising and something may work out with him...

That's a great thing to hear
Keep up the good job.

Tamer

P.S. You are correct, finding the "right" coder (specially for a critical jobs) was never an easy task.

P.P.S. Please have a look at the message I left at your public profile. umm, I really meant every word

[Bev Clement]

we already have some people who have posted the same offer more than once. When you look you will see that they have their offer there twice, and they have done that with more than one wso.

[Tamer]

Originally Posted by Bev Clement

we already have some people who have posted the same offer more than once. When you look you will see that they have their offer there twice, and they have done that with more than one wso.

Yep..
So you're saying that at least bumping was to limit the 1 product into 1 thread? right?
I can imagine how it would look like when someone creates more than one WSO (for the same product), with different titles... and we have to get through all of them, just to see if it is something new? or the same old story?

Tamer

[Texas_Guns]

It was foiled my complete WSO Domination plan
that I've been working on for the past 14 months
where I'd control each and every spot in the WSO
forum.

I'm doomed!

[John M Kane]

Bumps were relatively new anyway.
Me,I never cared for it.

I'm glad to see it go back to the way it was before.

^-^
(@ @)~~~~~~^
(*) ~~~~~
" /\ /\

[Ken Leatherman]

Did the bumping work for me? Yes.
Did I like it? Yes (most of the time).
Will I use it again if Allen brings it back? Yes.
Will it affect my bottom line by not having it? Maybe, but I hope not.

I used the bumping, because it worked. Now I will make this new WSO work and use the profits to expand my business into other areas than the WSO.

Frankly I'm along way from perfecting my business, but I know if I concentrate on what is working now it will continue to make me money.

Ken

[LB]

The biggest issue I'm seeing is that if someone relists a WSO 5 times rather than bumping 5 times then there are now 5 threads that are offering the same WSO.

Will get cluttered fast and the only thing missing in the new threads will be the NEGATIVE feedback which obviously the poster will not be porting over to the new thread.

[Angela V. Edwards]

Originally Posted by LB

The biggest issue I'm seeing is that if someone relists a WSO 5 times rather than bumping 5 times then there are now 5 threads that are offering the same WSO.

Yep. That's what I've been wondering about.

[Alan Petersen]

I thought the bumping was fine. It was pretty easy to spot those bumped WSOs on the first page with thousands of views and hundreds of comments.

If anything it validates a product. If a WSO goes on for a few months and has 500 comments and 20,000 views then you can really get good feedback about the product which is good for the consumer.

I just read Joe Sugarman's book and he wrote he had ads running in the same newspaper for three years. So if all those $20 bumps is worth the ROI go for it.

[Mike Hill]

I'll bet that the WSO forum made a lot more money during the bumping phase...

What, can't you guys figure out how to make it work in the new forum..? (LOL)

I guess I'll survive, but it was nice that I didn't have to format everything every time.

Mike Hill

[Texas_Guns]

Well... more thoughts....

Having posted a WSO today, I believe that the average
"shelf life" of a WSO is going to be dramatically decreased.

Good for some, horrible for others. It'll take some new
techniques to get those $4000+ profit WSO's going like
the good 'ole days.

I'm not against the new system, but I believe marketers
are marketers, and we'll see people push some envelope.
Having a shorter shelf life will no doubt lead to the need
to get a little creative.

As with anything, where there are challenges, there
are opportunities....

[Arindam Chakraborty]

Originally Posted by admin

Just figured I'd throw this in here - I always liked bumping. The only reason it isn't here is because I haven't figured out how to do it - yet.

If it is not possible with the 'raw' software, you can always order a custom mod.

By the way, bumping or no bumping, I like vbulletin a lot more than snitz.

Arindam

[Tamer]

Originally Posted by Mike Hill

I'll bet that the WSO forum made a lot more money during the bumping phase...

Hi Mike,

I'm not sure if the "more money" you mentioned was for MEMBERS or for Allen?

I won't speak on behalf of Allen...
But, if making money out of WSO was the main concern... then he would have increased the listing fee from $20 to somewhere else!

Even at $200 (per 1 listing) most good WSOs will make a LOT of profits.

Also don't forget that "during the bumping phase" he increased the WSOs/Page which immediately decreased his revenues (as people had a chance to wait longer time, before they can pay for the Bump).

Just my $0.02 as usual

Tamer