Anybody Watch Dragons Den?

[Teenage Genius]

I was watching Dragons Den the other day... For those of you who don't know, Dragons Den is a UK Channel 4 TV program, there are 5/6 millionairres, already very successful entrapaneurs and people come to the show with their inventions, statistics and what not to try and sell the "Dragons" a slice of their business for backing money. They also, if successful, get a JV partner most people would die for.

Well there was an Internet Marketer on there, well two of them. They made a website which basically you log onto and it shows all the menu's of different resurants and take aways in your area, you can then make an order there and then on the website and it will be delivered to your house. The marketing dou so they claimed 9% commission from the resturants. Very nice.



BUT


Then one of the dragons said: "How much time would it take somebody to replicate your site? Can it be done?"

The IM said: "no"

The Dragon laughed and said: "whys that?"

The IM said: "I am a professional coder and have spent months on this website..."

The Dragon then turned arround and said: "OK I have a team of world class developers and programmersl, 40 of them, how long would it take them to replicate your site?"

The IM said: "not very long"

The Dragon said: "and this is why I'm not going to buy into your business today, I can make my own, you have nothing of value to me".

Not looking good for the IM.

I think another Dragon did buy into it in the end, there was estimated profits of £4million in year 3.

But I'm sure theres something to learn from this story

[Ross Kenny]

I watch the Den...

There's nothing stopping these Dragons copying ideas that can't be patent..

Internet marketing is one prime example. How many products come out over and over re-hashed by another marketer with another spin on things.

[Matt Maiden]

Again, this is why it is so important to have a USP (Unique Selling Point / Proposition ), claim it, ( brand this USP with you) and use that unique angle to separate you from the rest of the pack.

It does not matter that anyone and everyone can replicate or duplicate a product or idea. You should be selling your USP and if your competition tries to use or duplicate your USP then they are viewed as trying to compete with you thereby stating to their customers that you are just as valuable or more so since they are trying to compete with you.

So really, the product is not as important as your USP.
This was covered in another thread so I should probably leave it at that.

Matt

[Eric Goldstein]

I'm with Ross on that ... informational products on the internet are being re-created everyday in peoples own versions/words.

I believe in branding yourself ... nobody can replicate you!

[AuctionExecutive]

There's a canadian version of Dragon's Den, which I watch every once in a while.

Most of the dragons are too worried about competition and getting business ideas stolen so they usually ask the entrepreneurs if they have patents.

They are parting with real money so I'd understand why they have to be paranoid and magnify all the small details.

But I did see one episode where they did invest in an online flower business so they do have an open mind and don't overlook opportunities.

Great show, I highly recommend the Dragon's Den to entrepreneurs.

[Kate Anderson]

We have a Canadian version of that show, I'm totally addicted.. It's definitely thought provoking to say the least, although a few of the dragons are terribly fierce.. good stuff =)

[new guy]

If the guy didn't get the deal because the other Dragon could replicate his idea then he did a poor job of selling it. If he came to the show with a bare website and a good idea then he came prematurely. It is one thing to show up with a concept and a platform, it is another thing to show up with a functioning business.

If he would be able to show his idea working with good revenue and profit, steady growth and a good model, he would have sold the idea to them.

[lollieamp]

Yeah it's a very good show.

Would highly recommend for everyone

[innocent07]

Interesting show, with some funny parts too but mostly business strategies which you can learn a great deal from.


Now, before exiting from this thread,
I would like to say one final thing...

Im out....!

[DotComBum]

Where can I watch this show online?

[Troy McDonald]

I watch Dragon's Den, I hope this is not the episode I have Tivoed. I guess if it is, I will see if a Dragon bites with an offer at the end.

They usually don't like things that can be copied, can ya blame 'em?

(Those that watch regularly, remember the guys with the thing that would rock a baby stroller back and forth? They came back and the one Dragon, said you now have competition in the marketplace.. I'm Out.)

[Kevin McNally]

You can read more about the show at BBC - Dragons' Den - Homepage

The Dragons are very clever guys but the one weakness they seem have is when it comes to guys pitching for investment in an internet business. They seem to have no clue about rankings, internet marketing etc.... One guy was telling them how he got paid by poker companies to put banners on his site and they thought this was amazing, well it's just basic affiliate marketing !

Another guy was getting about 30,000 hits per month to his website and they were impressed ! But they refused investment in a student accomodation website with very strong rankings that could easily have been monetized.

One of the dragons also invested £100k into a bingo website which he could easily have replicated for under 10k by outsourcing everything ! This site didn't have impressive rankings or revenue but the pitch was good !

Great show !

[zeplin169]

I love the dragons den, it shows me that anyone can succeed! although some of the ideas and products on there HMMMmmm! lol

[PatriciaJ]

I love watching it and although their weakness is Internet marketing there is still plenty to be learned about other aspects of business from the dragons

[jayman]

I love this show, seeing every episodes of the 6 seasona UK version
and 2 canadian seasons. My favorite dragon is Theo Paphitis, but all
the dragons on the show have interesting charactristics. I like to see
all the ideas (some good, many bad) being pitched and how the dragons
go on analyzing the details. Presentation skills is so important here.

[Neil Morgan]

I love Dragons Den, more for entertainment than anything else.

To correct the OP, it's on BBC2, not Channel 4 for those searching for past episodes.

Peter Jones, one of the dragons, was saying this week that he's going to be looking for 70% equity in the next series, due to the credit crunch.

It will be interesting to see if he folllows through. I imagine enthusiasm and motivation ebbs away with each percentage point of equity that you have to give up.

Cheers,

Neil

[Steadyon]

This also shows you just how important it can be, to get a great domain name, either one that sticks in people's mind or something that can be branded.

Then people can mimic you as much as they want. You sort of get at least some exclusivity if your branding and/or domain name is good.

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by innocent07

Im out....

Or as James Caan would say

Im ouTTTT....

Harvey

[BlueJam]

There is a lot to be said to being the first to the market with a product... Great program though.

[Jenna Paulson]

A good programme.

I just wonder, in the current environment, which one of the dragons will go bust first?

My money is on Theo.

[Stallion]

I watch the Canadian version of it. Just because one of the Dragon's don't invest in something, doesn't mean it isn't a profitable idea. They're venture capitalists and want to make a lot of money. I don't necessarily think that it is always about the competition, it's just a "if I invest a 100,000 into this business am I going to get a big return back?" These people can typically earn 10% guaranteed on the billions they have no, so they need something good.

[Jenna Paulson]

Look at theo's businesses, all leveraged on the high-st, which is collapsing. When you look at them, they made their money by being in the right place at the right time. Now most, are in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

Rachel Eleanor (dragon from 1st series) went bust (company was bought by the other 2 dragons).

Imo, the best dragon was richard farleigh, but the BBC got rid of him for some reason.

[Jonathan 2.0]

Yeah I watch Dragon's Den. Remember, they're supposed to be ruthless.

And they could say that about all of the price comparison websites like GoCompare.com and social networking websites like Bebo.com. But because many of those are established websites, have a strong market hold, and lots of users they'd probably be worth investing in. They probably didn't like the website because there wasn't a lot of equity in it.

Personally I don't think it means bad new for Internet Marketers. Still there's a good lesson about being "different" and creating something unique or having a USP like Mathew mentioned.

[marciayudkin]

I love this show, but really dislike their tactics.

What I find so interesting about the show is that it displays in episode after episode, how most successful gatekeepers make decisions. You may find them ruthless, but they are really good at seeing weaknesses and making clearcut, fast decisions on account of them.

In my experience, this is how literary agents, executives and many rich customers behave, and that's exactly why when trying to get ahead you have to have your act together, be a master of details and present your case convincingly.

It's one of the most fascinating shows on television.

Marcia Yudkin

[Jonathan 2.0]

Originally Posted by marciayudkin

What I find so interesting about the show is that it displays in episode after episode, how most successful gatekeepers make decisions. You may find them ruthless, but they are really good at seeing weaknesses and making clearcut, fast decisions on account of them.

True.

Sometimes they're ruthless just for the sake of television though.

[Ian Jackson]

Originally Posted by Matthew Connors

I love this show, but really dislike their tactics. Its a dog eat dog world where these guys operate.

All the more reason to have multiple streams of income from multiple products in multiple markets, using multiple methods.

Exactly!!! it mirrors the REAL business world!! - where I've spent the last 30 years. Their tactics are part of what's made the programme.

It's my fave programme at present; above all I use it for inspiration. I've read all the Den publications and think they're all v.good. James' book just nips in at the top slot - for me.

[JohnMcCabe]

I watch the show on BBC America.

One of the themes that keeps coming through is that some businesses, while viable and potentially very profitable, are not suitable for venture capital.

Many of the niche businesses fall into this category. While the owner is seeing some success, the business just won't scale as large and as fast as these investors want. They want to get in, make a chunk of money, and get out.

One thing that strikes me about many of the would-be entrepreneurs is how little they know about actually running a business. One didn't know the difference between sales and profits.

Just the other night, one woman's business model called for all profits to be donated to charity. The point was made that the dragons could do more good for charity just by making a direct donation, thanks to the tax laws. The woman didn't have a clue.

Simon (American Idol) Cowell tried to start a similar show here in the USA, but it got dicked up for American TV and flopped. It seems the American public, at least the section that watches network TV, is far more interested in the next pop star or professional mannequin than anything to do with business.

Although, to be fair, Kitchen Nightmares with Gordon Ramsay has made the transition. It could be that if the dragons mastered the art of the four-letter word, they could make it as well.

To the poster who asked about watching online, do a search on YouTube. There are several episodes floating around...

[mistermint]

Hi,

Anyone seen Harry Enfields version, I almost wet myself over this on

youtube

Those guys are so poweful mainly because of who they know and not what they know. They also have a lot of ventures flop!!

[howdo-i]

Originally Posted by DotComBum

Where can I watch this show online?

There are lots of episodes on youtube.

[Simon74]

Dragon Den it's a great program, but I agree with those of you saying they go about they business with the traditional route. And they don't need to know about IM, they play in a different league.

[rahulc123]

I don't watch that.

Rahul

[Nick Brighton]

This was my favorite:

YouTube - Ricky Gervais in the Dragons Den -...

[mistermint]

Brilliant ^

Just imagine a couple of guys going there looking for start up money:-

Q:What are you calling the company
A: Google
Q: Google, with a name like you'v got no chance!
Q: Do you have an alternative name?
A: Yeah " Yahoooooooo"

[JohnMcCabe]

When the current season began on BBC America, the first episode went back and looked at several of the people from previous seasons.

A couple of them did really well, even without the dragons' money.

A couple of them did really well, with the dragons' money.

A few utter flops, both with and without the dragons' money.

Most were still struggling along, barely scratching out an existence (as a company), just as the dragons predicted.

One company that did do very well without their investment was an internet company, who found someone to buy him out for about ten times what he valued the company at when he was in the den. Both Peter and Theo called that a missed opportunity.

On the whole, though, their judgments were surprisingly accurate.

Some posters thought the dragons were overly concerned with patents and other protections. Keep in mind that the companies they were considering sinking their money into were pitching their ideas on a TV show broadcast on at least two continents. Darn right I'd want some measure of exclusivity...

Would any of you spill your best niches and how you make money with them, plus how much you make, on such a TV show without some kind of protection?

[Richard Tunnah]

Originally Posted by Imran Naseem

The Dragons do not need to know about Internet Marketing as they are worth millions already and they took the traditional route of business.

Reading James Caans autobiography he even admitted himself that he used to pay his staff to read his emails for him...

Internet Marketing is small to them. They play with the "big boys".

Imran,
You are so right. All of them have made fortunes offline and admit to being useless online. I know Peter Jones also said he was lost with his computer but could now reply to emails!
If I remember Richard Farley was quite into online companies as was the Californian investor on the early shows.

Rich

[Richard Tunnah]

Originally Posted by Jenna Paulson

A good programme.

I just wonder, in the current environment, which one of the dragons will go bust first?

My money is on Theo.

Jenna,
I'm not sure any of them will go bust but I can imagine Duncan Balatyne having some hard times ahead as his main area of interest is his gym empire and according to a report I read recently people are cutting gym fees/membership rapidly over the last year during the 'credit crunch'

Rich

[Richard Tunnah]

Originally Posted by Neil Morgan

I love Dragons Den, more for entertainment than anything else.

To correct the OP, it's on BBC2, not Channel 4 for those searching for past episodes.

Peter Jones, one of the dragons, was saying this week that he's going to be looking for 70% equity in the next series, due to the credit crunch.

It will be interesting to see if he folllows through. I imagine enthusiasm and motivation ebbs away with each percentage point of equity that you have to give up.

Cheers,

Neil

Interesting Neil. I know some dragons have passed on an investment as they'd need a high % of equity due to high risk of investing. However they've said that by talking such a large percentage of any business there's a chance that the inventor/owner gets demotivated as they're working so hard for such a small % reward.

Rich

[jayman]

Anyone know if there's going to be a season 7 for the UK version?
Will be interesting to see how the show goes on in the midst
of the credit crunch