Just Received Cease & Desist -- What Should I Do Now?

by mkloh
45 replies
Hello Fellow Warriors,


I am a new internet marketer who has just been 6 months into the business. I have a lot to learn from you guys. This morning, I received a C&D from one of the attorneys in US (I believe) saying that I have somehow "infringed" the trademark of their client, and ask me to cease all that I'm doing with the site right now, and transfer the ownership of my current domain to them.

Here's the content of the letter:

"
Our firm represents Client Name. Our client is the owner of all right, title and interest in and to the mark Trademark, which is the subject matter of United States Trademark Registration No. Trademark Registration No. for My Niche. Client Name has used the mark Trademark consistently in the market for many years.

Client Name has recently discovered that you are operating a website located at My Domain URL and are using the mark Trademark. These uses of the mark Trademark are in connection with the sale of My Niche information and products.

Given your use of the mark identical to our client's federal registration in connection with goods and services very closely related to our client's goods, it is clear that your use of the mark Trademark is likely to cause confusion, mistake or deception amongst the public. Accordingly, we must insist that you immediately agree to cease and desist from all further use of the mark Trademark, assign the My Domain URL domain name to Client Name, change your corporate name if applicable, and discontinue any and all acts which may cause confusion among the public related to our trademark. Please be aware that Client Name will take whatever steps are necessary and appropriate in order to protect its valuable intellectual property rights.

Please contact me by the close of business (Eastern Standard Time) on Monday, February 20, 2012, to avoid legal action.

"

The issue is like this:
I named my domain as http: //trademark.org., not knowing that the domain name http: //trademark.com already registered as trademark. It has some decent number of searches so I guessed it is only natural that someone has already taken the .com extension. So, I settled for the .org.

I checked up their trademark registration number, and they really did registered the trademark back in 1999. So, I guess I really did unintentionally infringe their trademark.

My question is, do they really have the rights to ask me to cease all operations and surrender my domain to them?

I purchased it with my own cash and spent lots of time and effort to get them ranked on Google. It has only recently attracted thousands of visitors. Just when I see some success, they come and try to take away my property.

Honestly, I am really reluctant to transfer my domain ownership to them as I've sincerely contributed a lot and have spent a lot of time and efforts on this website.


Any advice, seniors? Please shed some lights on me. I'm totally lost and have no idea on how to handle this situation...
#cease #desist #received
  • Profile picture of the author JimMichael
    They have every right to demand transfer of ownership. The onus is on you to have done enough research to ensure you were not infringing copyright.

    I ignored a C&D letter about ten years ago, after doing exactly as you did (unintentional registration). Let me just say it ended up costing me a lot more by ignoring it than if I'd just acted on it.

    You could drop them a line, explain your unintended error and let them know the wheels are in motion. This should prevent any more letters in the short term.

    However, I'd strongly discourage you from ignoring it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
      I'm not a trademark lawyer and strongly suggest you contact one if you intend to fight the C&D. However unless you are using the domain not commercial gains or for something completely unrelated to the trademarked company then you are best to hand it over. I know it's annoying but they are asking nicely. They could just get it back without you by going via ican plus they could sue you for cyber squatting.

      Rich
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      • Profile picture of the author JimMichael
        I echo the responses above.

        I know people who have lost more money through ignoring a C&D than their businesses made them in 3 years, combined.

        C&Ds are no joke.

        I'm sure you'd do the same if someone was squatting on a domain where the trademark belonged to you.
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        • Profile picture of the author athenistic
          I'm not going to reiterate what's already been said because I think you probably get the point.

          What you should do today is buy a new domain for your content, and 301 the transgressed domain to your new site to at least let the search engines know you've moved. That will at least keep some juice flowing until you turn the domain over and give you a bit of a head start building links to the new domain.
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          • Profile picture of the author mkloh
            Originally Posted by TiffLee View Post

            What should you do?

            ... probably cease and desist. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
            lol... Spot on!


            Originally Posted by Michael D Forbes View Post

            It's not the end of the world for you. Good luck!
            Thanks, you are right. It's not the end of the world..


            Originally Posted by Kelly Verge View Post

            Trademark, not copyright.

            Secondly, they only asked for and have rights to the domain name. The site's contents still belong to the OP.
            Yeah, the contents supposedly belong to me (original author), isn't that right?


            Originally Posted by Richard Tunnah View Post

            Michael, sorry but I totally disagree. By offering the domain to them at a price you can actually prove you were knowingly cyber squatting and liable to get sued!

            Rich
            Ooops... Great hint. I was actually thinking of negotiating with them initially. Luckily I posted this on the forum... Haha... Thanks!


            Originally Posted by athenistic View Post

            I'm not going to reiterate what's already been said because I think you probably get the point.

            What you should do today is buy a new domain for your content, and 301 the transgressed domain to your new site to at least let the search engines know you've moved. That will at least keep some juice flowing until you turn the domain over and give you a bit of a head start building links to the new domain.
            Yup, got it. Thanks for the tip. Actually, giving up the site is nothing big. Giving up the backlinks is heartbreaking... =(
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    • Profile picture of the author mkloh
      JimMichael
      Yeah, I never wanted to ignore this as I realise that this is something that I will regret not attending to (monetarily, that is). Just wanted to hear your opinions. Really, this is only my 2nd website, and it shows I really have lots to learn.. Haha...

      wolfmmii,
      You are right, I termed it a little incorrectly. It's never my property. =D

      Richard Tunnah,
      I don't intend to fight it. Why would I want to fight over it knowing that I clearly infringe their trademark, right? It's painful to hand it over though... =(

      Rus Sells,
      You are absolutely right. I knew the .com extension was taken. The thing that I didn't know was I didn't check whether the domain name is registered as a TRADEMARK. If the .com is taken, I can happily take a .org. As long as the domain name is not registered as trademark, I'm free from lawsuit, am i not right?
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    What Should I Do Now?

    Cease, desist, and transfer ownership.


    ...they come and try to take away my property.

    It's not your property nor was it ever.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    The issue is like this:
    I named my domain as http: //trademark.org., not knowing that the domain name http: //trademark.com already registered as trademark. It has some decent number of searches so I guessed it is only natural that someone has already taken the .com extension. So, I settled for the .org.
    Honestly I have a REALLY hard time believing you didn't know the .com version was taken.

    So what you're saying is; when you searched for the domain name you intentionally changed the default search setting from .com to .org FIRST and then searched to see if the name available?

    Every single site that I've even searched for available domain names has the default set to search for .com first. You have to manually set it to a different extension.

    If any one can link me to a registrar that can prove me wrong I'll eat my words.
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    • Profile picture of the author i580n
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      Honestly I have a REALLY hard time believing you didn't know the .com version was taken.

      So what you're saying is; when you searched for the domain name you intentionally changed the default search setting from .com to .org FIRST and then searched to see if the name available?

      Every single site that I've even searched for available domain names has the default set to search for .com first. You have to manually set it to a different extension.

      If any one can link me to a registrar that can prove me wrong I'll eat my words.
      You must have not read the post you quoted. He said he didn't know the word was trademarked. He knew the .com domain was taken, but didn't know it was also trademarked.
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffLee
    What should you do?

    ... probably cease and desist. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author jaiganeshv
    Just reply to them that you abide by the copyright law and you will take necessary steps to close the website and transfer the contents to the owner as it was requested..
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael D Forbes
    Best case scenario... you open up an honest conversation with them and ask if they are willing to at least purchase the domain from you. It's possible, but not very likely. Don't even entertain the thought of trying to get anything for the perceived value you have added.

    Sad as it is, you are indeed in violation and you have no recourse.

    Save your content, buy a non-infringing domain and get it back up fast. It's not the end of the world for you. Good luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
      Originally Posted by Michael D Forbes View Post

      Best case scenario... you open up an honest conversation with them and ask if they are willing to at least purchase the domain from you. It's possible, but not very likely. Don't even entertain the thought of trying to get anything for the perceived value you have added.

      Sad as it is, you are indeed in violation and you have no recourse.

      Save your content, buy a non-infringing domain and get it back up fast. It's not the end of the world for you. Good luck!
      Michael, sorry but I totally disagree. By offering the domain to them at a price you can actually prove you were knowingly cyber squatting and liable to get sued!

      Rich
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
    BEFORE you "hand it over", please make sure it is a legitimate C&D and that it is truly a trademark. There are scammers posing as companies who own a trademark, and send phony C&Ds just to steal the domain from you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    Look, just because he has a domain with a trademarked name as a part of it, it's not necessarily infringement.

    The standard is; Is he doing something that is causing confusion or delusion of a trademark. If what he's doing is likely to cause consumer confusion in the market place then he's most likely infringing upon the trademark.

    For example. Lets say Ben & Gerry's the ice cream guys has their name trademarked. They also own benandgerrys.com for their brand of ice cream.

    But my business is Ben & Gerry's because its mine and my partners name. However we don't sell ice cream, we sell sporting goods equipment.

    The ice cream guys can not prove infringement just because we use their trademarked name in our business name and in our domain.

    So the "REAL question here is, is the OP selling the same products as the trademark holder. If he is, its more then likely he is committing trademark infringement.
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    • Profile picture of the author agc
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      Look, just because he has a domain with a trademarked name as a part of it, it's not necessarily infringement.

      The standard is; Is he doing something that is causing confusion or delusion of a trademark. If what he's doing is likely to cause consumer confusion in the market place then he's most likely infringing upon the trademark.

      For example. Lets say Ben & Gerry's the ice cream guys has their name trademarked. They also own benandgerrys.com for their brand of ice cream.

      But my business is Ben & Gerry's because its mine and my partners name. However we don't sell ice cream, we sell sporting goods equipment.

      The ice cream guys can not prove infringement just because we use their trademarked name in our business name and in our domain.

      So the "REAL question here is, is the OP selling the same products as the trademark holder. If he is, its more then likely he is committing trademark infringement.
      Worth repeating.

      If your USE is not infringing, then they have no standing. If your USE is infringing, then you will ultimately lose.

      Contact a lawyer if the site has any value to you at all.

      You may be able to negotiate an agreement where you are allowed to keep the domain so long as it never contains any content EXCEPT a link to their site without advertising, and you move your site to a new name within some period of time.

      This solves their problem as it gets your infringing domain out of the SERPs.

      Otherwise, let it go.
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  • Profile picture of the author shermancox
    Happened to me about 6 years ago...I had worked on a site for 3 years and got it up in the rankings and then boom a letter saying my domain name infringed on their trademark...

    They told me that I could request from them the right to use the domain name if I were willing to follow their web guidelines which included no advertising...(it was a religious organization)

    I simply dropped the site and moved on...
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      To the OP:

      I respect your attitude in this thread. So often, a C&D leads to a childish "they can't make me" response and your acceptance of trademark protection is a refreshing change.

      Companies have to protect their trademark in this way if they want to keep trademark protection. Take the site down and use the content on another site. It's a pain to start over - but lesson learned.

      In the future, go to Trademark Search - TESS and check trademark registration before registering a domain. There's also a site for checking international trademarks - Trademark Search .


      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        To the OP:

        I respect your attitude in this thread. So often, a C&D leads to a childish "they can't make me" response and your acceptance of trademark protection is a refreshing change.

        Companies have to protect their trademark in this way if they want to keep trademark protection. Take the site down and use the content on another site. It's a pain to start over - but lesson learned.

        In the future, go to Trademark Search - TESS and check trademark registration before registering a domain. There's also a site for checking international trademarks - Trademark Search .


        kay
        This one deserves a bump.
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  • Profile picture of the author lukedidit
    Sorry of Hijack your post OP, but wanted to ask the board some more on this.

    So is it a case of any aspect of the company name within a domain name is also a trademark infringement?

    For example:

    We have ipad.tld - this is clearly an infringement?

    But how about:

    ipad-cases.tld or ipad-helpfultips.tld?

    Even further to that:

    the-mustang-forum.tld - bobs-mustang-tuning-info.tld?
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  • Profile picture of the author Venturetothetop
    I posted a number of articles related to this issue a while back - after the BBC did a series on Trademark cases which went in case of the offender.

    It really does depend on certain elements. If the trademark name is very generic and made up of standard works - then it is not always clear cut - because they cannot stake claim to any mention of commonly used words.

    If on the other hand you used a similar name from the trademark in order to PROFIT from their good name then you already sunk.

    The way you start the post makes me FEEL that you already know this.. and that you did profit from their name. No argument here at all. If they used generic words and you used it for a different purpose, then you have a chance...

    It all depends on many too factors...
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  • Profile picture of the author StephanieMojica
    I would not offer to sell the domain back to them. This could cause you a lot more legal problems than it's worth.

    As much as it sucks, I would plan to simply let the domain go and rebuild from there. I won't go into the homework you should have done before getting settled into the domain.

    Good luck!

    Stephanie
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  • Profile picture of the author protectyoursales
    I'm not a lawyer but I've read about other trademark and domain rights cases in the past, and having seen the way these cases tend to resolve, even if you keep the domain chances are they will take you to court and you'll end up not being able to do anything that could conceivably make you any money. I would definitely say that your best bet is to buy a new domain RIGHT NOW and start porting over all of your content. 301 all of it, and then with any luck you can keep the domain.

    But PLEASE talk to a lawyer, which is not me. And PLEASE don't take any advice on this forum before you talk to one, because it will cost you.
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    DO NOT TAKE ANY ADVICE ABOUT THIS FROM A FORUM ONLINE!

    You need to contact an attorney right away. It could be legit. It could be a scam.

    If it is legit, you could have rights. Only an attorney who specializes in this type of thing can help you.

    If I were you, I would not give up the domain until I had talked to an attorney and HAD to.

    I want to add, I was challenged by a National Organization who went to the Attorny General of my state when I first opened my very first big offline business, I won't go over the details but it cost me one phone call to an attorney, his time to write one letter and I won and continued and made a lot of money over the years.
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  • Profile picture of the author michaelcorvin
    Give it to them. 13 years ago I launched a small Internet business that I ended up taking to $40,000 a month in sales in 90 days. But in the domain name I used the name of one of the main product producers. I ended up having to rebuild the site using a different domain name, though they still let me market their products for them.

    I see this all the time, people buying domains names with the words Facebook or Twitter and thinking that they will not get the a$$e$ handed to them. Gotta be careful..

    Lesson learned...

    Give it to them and start over.

    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author thekaver
    as long as you not selling or offering anything to do with there business then you not breaking any trademark laws.

    If you are operating the website to something different to what they about then kindly send them a letter or email back stating you not doing anything that will jeapodise there business or anything that could be considered anything to do with them.

    If they wanted your domain they should of bought it before you did and they choosen not to. They are prob just a bit annoyyed you out ranked them in google.

    Anyways, id explain to them that you have spent time and money on your site and if they want to buy it from you, you would happy to sell them it and more onto another niche.

    thanks

    TheKaver
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  • Profile picture of the author weebeastie
    If you get a Cease & Desist. That's one huge red flag not to be fooled with, Stop what your doing immediately and contact the law firm with assurances that you have stopped.

    Then it's research time to find out what violations you have done whether there is a way around it. Whether there is merit in their position. Some Cease and Desist orders are meant to chase you off but deep pockets can hound you in the courts for a long time.
    Consult your own lawyer is also an option.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Johns
    If it is genuine and you have infringed their trademark then you can expect to lose and it will cost you a lot of money to lose.

    I'd check it is genuinely from the owner of the trademark. Explain you are being cautious and checking because there are scammers out there and if it is genuine then nod, smile and hand it over.

    I've got a few domains using trademarks where I've contacted the trademark holder and asked them if I can use their trademark to promote their products. A lot of the companies have been quite happy for me to do so, a few haven't.

    I've even had my own C&D which was a proud moment as I realised I'd arrived and got successful enough to be noticed - it was when my site promoting and providing information about their product outranked theirs and I started to get all their customers contacting me. I smiled, handed it over and got on building other sites. Lesson learned.

    Your best bet is to just hand it over and move on if it's genuine. Unless you can definitely prove you weren't infringing their trademark (i.e. promoting their products) you're going to lose.

    Cheers

    Jason
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  • Profile picture of the author davezan
    Before the next person tells the OP what to do other than talk to a lawyer:

    Originally Posted by mkloh View Post

    Our firm represents Client Name. Our client is the owner of all right, title and interest in and to the mark Trademark, which is the subject matter of United States Trademark Registration No. Trademark Registration No. for My Niche. Client Name has used the mark Trademark consistently in the market for many years.

    Client Name has recently discovered that you are operating a website located at My Domain URL and are using the mark Trademark. These uses of the mark Trademark are in connection with the sale of My Niche information and products.

    Given your use of the mark identical to our client's federal registration in connection with goods and services very closely related to our client's goods, it is clear that your use of the mark Trademark is likely to cause confusion, mistake or deception amongst the public.


    ...


    I checked up their trademark registration number, and they really did registered the trademark back in 1999.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      From the content of the letter it does appear that the OP is directly competing with the trademark owner doesn't it.

      Originally Posted by davezan View Post

      Before the next person tells the OP what to do other than talk to a lawyer:
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  • Profile picture of the author AfterTenDesign
    Before Skype was huge, I owned several Skype domain names, I received letter demanding I turn over the domain names, after some research and phone calls to make sure it was legitimate, I agreed but for a fee, I got the money and no headache.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kael41
    Yea, so let me give you some advise as an actual lawyer: go talk to someone within your jurisdiction who can provide actual legal advise on this matter. If you want to comply, go ahead and comply, that will take care of that. If you want to "fight" this letter, be prepared..and the preparation is what your legal professional can give to you after they give you an estimation of fees, manage your expectations and give you a once over of any viable defense to what is being proposed.
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  • Profile picture of the author JoeyPal
    yea bro, let that domain go. you can lose more money than you have made in 3 years just for stupid things like this. It's not worth it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by JoeyPal View Post

      yea bro, let that domain go. you can lose more money than you have made in 3 years just for stupid things like this. It's not worth it.
      Since this thread is from 10 months ago, I'd venture to guess the situation has long since been resolved. You really couldn't find anything a little more recent to comment on?:rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author salegurus
        Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

        Since this thread is from 10 months ago, I'd venture to guess the situation has long since been resolved. You really couldn't find anything a little more recent to comment on?:rolleyes:
        I've never understood why people actively seek out threads that are months old to add their 2cents?
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        • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
          Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

          I've never understood why people actively seek out threads that are months old to add their 2cents?
          This can easily happen as the result of a search here on WF, or a search from Google. The thread appears, but they don't notice the date.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
            Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel View Post

            This can easily happen as the result of a search here on WF, or a search from Google. The thread appears, but they don't notice the date.
            That's true. I didn't think of that, so I apologize for my snarkiness.
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  • Profile picture of the author Newbiemarketer76
    I didn't read replies but I can tell you this, most attorneys are all bark and no bite....They can threaten anyone they want, but if you threaten them, then it becomes a crime.

    They only threaten you because their client pays them money. All things with attorneys can be bought and paid for. They are not even real people.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Absolutely. Consider a cease and desist a polite request. The next steps should you not comply are not so nice. They can sue the pants off of you or file a UDRP and take the name.
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  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    Would he get in trouble if he did a permanent redirect now and try to proceed slowly with the transfer?
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  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    ICANN will take the domain from you so beat them to the punch. Since you already admitted you 'unintentionally' infringed their copyright, it seems the COST Of fighting their claim is MORE than the benefit of keeping the domain. I'd take the path of least resistance on this one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Valdor Kiebach
    If you change the whole of the site, design, content and everything to not be anything at all to do with this trademark then they cannot ask for it?

    It would be like amazon.com asking somebody who has a site about the amazon jungle called amazon.something to give up the domain.

    I thought that the domain could only be demanded by a trademark holder if that domain is being used to promote or imitate the trademark company, but not if the content is in no way related to the trademark.
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  • Profile picture of the author karlmay1980
    You should let the domain go, if you are clearly trading on their trademark then it will only cost you money to try and keep it way beyond the loss of letting it go.

    The truth is you deliberately used what you knew would get traffic to make money and that is where you fall down, if you had a legitimate reason to have a similar name and it was an honest mistake you may have a chance, but if you are selling the same things, using the same look and also logos etc then you are looking to mislead people that they are dealing with someone else.

    Start again and make sure everything in place properly and unique next time, good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mo Goulet
    I would register another domain name and place your content there. You can then forward the domain name in question where it will never infringe on their trademark since it will not appear in the browser window. From there simply write them and apologize stating you have removed your content to another domain. If they wish to pursue the name, that is there business. You do not have to give them squat. You have complied with the cease and desist. The domain name was up for grabs and they could have registered it but chose not to. Having a trademark does not automatically grant you the right to own the domain name. It simply protects you from someone using it to infringe on your stuff.

    For example. I own the trademark to the name TranStream...If you look up the .com, you'll see that it is for sale. I offered them $100 for the name and they refused. I then informed them I owned the trademark to the name and now they must inform any buyer that the name is registered. My trademark does not give me the right to go in and take it from them. It only protects me from someone using it to on a website for business purposes.
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