Could an experienced internet marketer pass on some advice?

12 years ago

Originally Posted by payoman

Hi Warriors,

My name is Luke and I'm pretty new to the internet marketing scene, but after a couple months of ebooks, videos and podcasts I have a much better sense of what's going on, but I am at a crossroad right now.

I am a qualified graphic and web designer that can produce quality work (I can't post the links yet unfortunately, but if you Google cjdjbuilders you should be able to see one of my sites) and I am looking for help.

I have read that the fastest way to start making money online from home is to offer a service.

So my question is, what are some ways you know of for getting work in this area, aside from somewhere like 99designs.com or Odesk (the competition is extreme at those places)?

Truly appreciate any feedback/opinions, thanks for reading!

Hey there,

First of all congrats that you are actually thinking of taking action. Just go ahead & offer your services on Fiverr OR post an ad in "Warriors for Hire" section. Initially lower your prices or offer free reviews to get some good reviews & repeating clients and then there is no looking back. This is much better way than competing with several freelancers on Odesk or somewhere else.

Come back here after few days & share your success story. I wish you all the best, may God bless you!

Cheers

Ciel!

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theverysmartguy

12 years ago

Originally Posted by payoman

Hi Warriors,

My name is Luke and I'm pretty new to the internet marketing scene, but after a couple months of ebooks, videos and podcasts I have a much better sense of what's going on, but I am at a crossroad right now.

I am a qualified graphic and web designer that can produce quality work (I can't post the links yet unfortunately, but if you Google cjdjbuilders you should be able to see one of my sites) and I am looking for help.

I have read that the fastest way to start making money online from home is to offer a service.

So my question is, what are some ways you know of for getting work in this area, aside from somewhere like 99designs.com or Odesk (the competition is extreme at those places)?

Truly appreciate any feedback/opinions, thanks for reading!

Besides being a graphic artist, have you learned anything else in the IM field? SEO? Facebook creation ( Facebook creation can go for $500 a pop in the local markets, your graphic skills could really help.)?

You could create a bunch of headers and graphics for niche style websites and offer packages for sale ( this might have been done to death to be honest ).

But you are right, offering a service is the QUICKEST way to make money online. You might make more money by adding your IM skills to your local markets though. Even has a "newbie" your knowledge should far surpass the store owners in your area.

-- Jeff

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payoman

12 years ago

Originally Posted by theverysmartguy

Besides being a graphic artist, have you learned anything else in the IM field? SEO? Facebook creation ( Facebook creation can go for $500 a pop in the local markets, your graphic skills could really help.)?

You could create a bunch of headers and graphics for niche style websites and offer packages for sale ( this might have been done to death to be honest ).

But you are right, offering a service is the QUICKEST way to make money online. You might make more money by adding your IM skills to your local markets though. Even has a "newbie" your knowledge should far surpass the store owners in your area.

-- Jeff

Actually to answer your question, I have learned a lot about SEO in particular, and will purchase a couple SEO tools as soon as I can make a local sale (aiming at $300 for a website, dirt cheap I know, but I am struggling to make a sale even at this price locally, and I live in a reasonably small town of 150k).

Any tips on marketing to local business over the phone effectively? Haha now I'm just piling on my personal FAQs to the Warrior Forum

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theverysmartguy

12 years ago

Originally Posted by payoman

Actually to answer your question, I have learned a lot about SEO in particular, and will purchase a couple SEO tools as soon as I can make a local sale (aiming at $300 for a website, dirt cheap I know, but I am struggling to make a sale even at this price locally, and I live in a reasonably small town of 150k).

Any tips on marketing to local business over the phone effectively? Haha now I'm just piling on my personal FAQs to the Warrior Forum

$300 for a site? I charge that just to do an initial setup without any content. Takes about 5 mins with the right theme. This would include a home page, contact us, about, etc etc.

I wouldn't do it over the phone. The best way to get into the market is to do some work for a friend who owns a business, or someone you might know. Give them a discount if they will refer you to 5 other people.

Do some research, and set up SEO packages. Have an initial fee plus a monthly maintenance fee as well. Make sure you have some places to outsource some of the tasks so that you don't get over loaded.

Make them see that even though it will cost $1000 setup for some SEO and $500/month afterwards that you will be getting them in front of more customers. If you can drum up an extra $10k in business for them you will have a customer for life, and they will start coming out of the wood work.

Use your current support system to drum up some initial work; prove that you can get results and you will have to start to turn away customers.

Don't take on too many. And the ones that complain about the price, leave them alone and get rid of them. If customers start to call you a couple of times a day, get rid of them. Seriously, you don't need the headache; you are allowed to fire your own customers. I've done it.

Once you get that first customer, raise your rates a little bit. And do that with each new customer until you hit a sweet spot. The more expensive you are ( as long as you give them results ) the more exclusive you will seem. Plus you will weed out the cheapos. The cheaper a customer is, the more they tend to complain. Remember, these are NOT the customers you want. If they pick a cheap package, make the contract a month and explain to them that this is an introductory offer and it is only available for 1 month. If they don't stay on afterwards, then you know they aren't willing to spend more than they already are. ( This is where you try and get their competition on board...hahaha.)

Get some contracts written up that they sign for quarterly work, semi-annual, and annual. This way you just guaranteed your income for that set period of time.

NEVER let the customer think they are the boss. Yes, give them what they want, but always know that this is your field of expertise, you know what you are doing. IF you let the customer get to much control your expertise means nothing to them anymore. ( if you don't fire them, they will probably let you go anyways.)

Stand firm, give results and you will be golden.

-- Jeff

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zoonix

12 years ago

The competition on elance, odesk, etc... it pretty fierce, but the quality is often time just as questionable. You will have to start out offering your services at a cut rate price, but as your reputation and review grow you will be able to demand a higher price as long as you do top quality work.

I've had to switch contractors countless times as their rep grow as they price themselves out of my range. I guess it just depends on you situation and if you have the time to wait for your rates to go up.

I've never sold services on there, only hired them so I only see one side of it, but from what I've seen it's not a bad way to get started.

Best of luck!

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helisell

12 years ago

I'm not 100% convinced that 'offering a service' is the quickest way to make money Luke.

With your knowledge and skills you could ask on here what folks struggle with when it comes to graphics and websites. Create some screen recording videos on the best and quickest way to solve those problems for them and sell that solution either here as a WSO or out in the big bad world.

It wouldn't take you long to put that together...then you have your own product. You can always offer a service as well but I honestly think you'll make more (and quicker) by creating your own product.

Good luck.

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payoman

12 years ago

Originally Posted by helisell

I'm not 100% convinced that 'offering a service' is the quickest way to make money Luke.

With your knowledge and skills you could ask on here what folks struggle with when it comes to graphics and websites. Create some screen recording videos on the best and quickest way to solve those problems for them and sell that solution either here as a WSO or out in the big bad world.

It wouldn't take you long to put that together...then you have your own product. You can always offer a service as well but I honestly think you'll make more (and quicker) by creating your own product.

Good luck.

Thanks Helisell, definitely something I will take into consideration.

Thinking about it, I suppose I could create a list of 'cool graphic design tricks' that could be applied for a better looking website/logos/graphics etc. Will definitely give this a good think, thanks for the tip!!

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payoman

12 years ago

Wow, thanks for the detailed post Jeff! Well, to give you some more background...

I am using a combination of site-creation software and the Adobe suite to create my websites, as I know virtually no coding, but using the site-creation software, the websites are professional-looking and functional. That being said, I have a couple more questions if you don't mind, you have been extremely helpful...

1. So with limited coding experience, does this hinder my ability to provide quality work? I mean, if a client required a complex shopping cart system/database functionality/comment system that was beyond my reach, what would you recommend? Should I just knuckle-down and learn programming languages, or perhaps outsource that portion of the work?

2. I contact clients VIA cold calling, because I have a background in sales. The problem so far has been many people saying 'We get all our work through word of mouth', which I can't really argue with, especially when they add 'and we are very busy at the moment'. Any tips regarding this? Or is this just simply a numbers game that will have a low yield naturally? (I presume this to be the case, it IS cold-calling afterall)

Thanks again!

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theverysmartguy

12 years ago

Originally Posted by payoman

Wow, thanks for the detailed post Jeff! Well, to give you some more background...

I am using a combination of site-creation software and the Adobe suite to create my websites, as I know virtually no coding, but using the site-creation software, the websites are professional-looking and functional. That being said, I have a couple more questions if you don't mind, you have been extremely helpful...

1. So with limited coding experience, does this hinder my ability to provide quality work? I mean, if a client required a complex shopping cart system/database functionality/comment system that was beyond my reach, what would you recommend? Should I just knuckle-down and learn programming languages, or perhaps outsource that portion of the work?

2. I contact clients VIA cold calling, because I have a background in sales. The problem so far has been many people saying 'We get all our work through word of mouth', which I can't really argue with, especially when they add 'and we are very busy at the moment'. Any tips regarding this? Or is this just simply a numbers game that will have a low yield naturally? (I presume this to be the case, it IS cold-calling afterall)

Thanks again!

This is where you get real specific about the services you do offer. And to start out, don't offer services that you can't fulfill. However, this doesn't mean you can't offer them in the future; you just need to be able to out source it.

When offering my SEO services I only ever been asked once or twice about something that I don't even offer. I wrote it down, and after they had become a good customer I was able to look into it further and then offer it to them via out sourcing. Don't say you are out sourcing it though. The customer should think that it comes directly from your company.

Big massive corps have been doing this for years. HP, DELL, etc etc. Have their computers built by 3rd party manufacturers. They are just branded with their logo.

It is always easier to stick with what you know first off and expand from there. But don't become a company/business that is jack off all trades. Being a specialist always pays the bigger bucks.

For the cold calling ( which has been one of my jobs in the past. I hated it!! I have also cold called door to door too for alarm systems ) yes it is a numbers game.

I use to work for a company that used to think it could survive word of mouth. They did for about 10 years, and then in the last 5 - 6 years their business has been dropping off.

If you can guarantee that you can get them onto the front page of Google that might just open up their eyes quite a bit.

One way of doing this is by targeting a specific niche in your area, or several of them. Create a website with some content on it, and then get it to rank on the first page of Google ( the top 3 is even better ) and then offer them to use that website to give them more customers.

If you are already there, and you show them how much traffic you are getting ( this would most likely be extra traffic for them ) for this one website they will jump at the chance to get those new customers.

Now, with this cold calling bit: If they say no, type up a personal letter to the owners/managers ( or who ever is in charge of paying you for your services). Thank them for their time on the phone etc etc, and then explain what they didn't want to hear in that letter. Explain to them the importance of what this can and WILL do for their business. Don't preach features to them, tell them BENEFITS.

On the envelope HANDWRITE their name and address etc etc. Why? Because people are more inclined to open up mail that is personally written to them. If you type out the address and name on the envelope they might discard it as junk.

Don't put anything fancy on the outside, just make it seem like a letter. Make sure you put your phone number and contact info so they can call you back.

At the end put something like: "I look forward to hearing from you." Make the assumption that you are expecting their phone call.

But all in all it is a numbers game. No matter what, it is ALWAYS a numbers game.

Once you have them asking questions, that is when you know you have them. Set up an appointment for an hour. Where you will come and do a free consultation and hopefully get them signed up for your services.

I hope I answered all your questions. Keep them coming.

-- Jeff

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payoman

12 years ago

Wow Jeff, you truly have gone above and beyond with your assistance!

I guess I am still quite apprehensive about this whole experience. I am fairly young (mid 20's) and feel like I am jumping in the deep end.

Here is a question I have been perplexed over :

I recently called up one of the bigger web design studios in my town. They told me that, at a minimum, a website through their company was $1400 initally and $55 per month.

Now, I have seen websites this company has designed. I wish I could post links, but the content and graphics honestly looked like early 2000's templates. Really basic framing, off-putting color design etc.

I assume these companies get away with charging so much simply because my town is fairly small, so the competition is few and far between. Is this the norm for local business websites? But then again, perhaps these prices really ARE the norm, even for simple websites.

My follow up question would be then, why in Gods name are people paying $1500 upwards for a basic website that could be created in wordpress in a few days? Is it lack of knowledge? Would love your insight again.

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theverysmartguy

12 years ago

Originally Posted by payoman

Wow Jeff, you truly have gone above and beyond with your assistance!

I guess I am still quite apprehensive about this whole experience. I am fairly young (mid 20's) and feel like I am jumping in the deep end.

Here is a question I have been perplexed over :

I recently called up one of the bigger web design studios in my town. They told me that, at a minimum, a website through their company was $1400 initally and $55 per month.

Now, I have seen websites this company has designed. I wish I could post links, but the content and graphics honestly looked like early 2000's templates. Really basic framing, off-putting color design etc.

I assume these companies get away with charging so much simply because my town is fairly small, so the competition is few and far between. Is this the norm for local business websites? But then again, perhaps these prices really ARE the norm, even for simple websites.

My follow up question would be then, why in Gods name are people paying $1500 upwards for a basic website that could be created in wordpress in a few days? Is it lack of knowledge? Would love your insight again.

On the "norm" people are going to pay what they are told to pay.

One thing that some people might not realize is though. is that a "flashy" website isn't necessarily a good thing. Less is more, and simple is spectacular.

That doesn't mean that the site shouldn't be filled with great pictures, it just means that they don't need a ton of flashy graphics. A custom header will do just fine, along with a custom layout of the website.

It is beneficial for businesses to create their sites on a platform such as WordPress. This is a platform that is already set up for SEO in mind. When I was making sites for other people this is what I would use. Once that was done my work was done basically. If they wanted a header done I would outsource that and tack on the cost of it plus a premium. Always make sure you get paid for each thing you do for them, even if it isn't you doing it.

Oh. BTW, $1500 isn't all that much. There are people who charge $5000 for a set up and initial SEO, plus about $1000/month to start. And these are pages that just have some basic info on the business and a contact form etc etc.

If businesses want a mailing list, well, that would be extra. Usually a $500 - $1000 initial set up fee plus about $200/month to maintain it.

Don't nickel and dime it though, create packages that have all these things inside of it. Then, out source most of it. For the most part, you shouldn't have to outsource more than about 25% - 30% of whatever you are charging them. AT THE MOST.

Another word of advice: When you contact a business, do a bit of initial research on them first. Do they have a website? If they do where are they ranked on various keywords. Do they have Google Places? Things like that. If you know before hand where they stand online you will know ahead of time how you will be able to help them.

Make a list of the competitors that are ahead of them in the search results. Ask them if they would like to be able to get ahead of them and "steal" their customers away. If they answer no, then they really don't want to stay in business and you need to move on. An owner wants to make more money; they need more customers. They aren't going to say no if they are in their right mind.

A good way to get into the door, is to say that you are calling to set up a free 1 hour consultation to help their business. Make sure you are prepared. Do your research, print out some stats of them vs their competition. Ask them how they would like to do an additional $10k in business each month. Do your research on what they do, so you can come up with a realistic number. Or ask them how much about an extra 100, 500, or even a 1000 new customers be worth to them. Again, make sure this is a realistic number based on your previous research.

Have a list of keywords printed about. I would say the top 5 - 10. And tell them that as they may know, these are what people are typing in to Google to find them. And in your research you will show them where they are ranked for those keywords.

Show them how many searches it is getting, this will show them that this is a potential loss of revenue because they aren't ranked for it.

You see where I am going? Ever watched Jerry Maguire? Remember that saying? "Show me the money!!" Well, those potential customers are worth money to them. If you can show that you can put them in front of an extra 1000 new potential customers each month, they will know what that is worth.

Its all about how much money you can make for them.

Don't sell the website design as a design, sell it as away for them to attracted X number of new customers a month.

When it come right down to it, if you can not show them that you WILL make them money they aren't going to bother. They will keep doing what they have been doing. Word of mouth, etc etc.

If they have a website do a quick SEO analysis and see what you can do for them that way too. Once they see it, you can charge the $1000/month easy.

Its all about the benefits.

Another thing that can be done; especially if you built a niche website before you contact businesses in that niche, is set it up so that you collect leads. Don't start collecting them until you are ready to contact the businesses; they usually have a short window of opportunity to be of use.

Lets say you get 50 new leads in a 24 hour period, you can call of a business in that niche and say that you have 50 people looking to do business with them would you like to talk about it.

Depending on the niche ( basically how much money the business can make off of a given customer ), you could easily sell those 50 leads for $1000 - $5000 for the bunch.

I know, this is a lot of info thrown your way. I didn't mean to over load you with to much info.

Basically, you need a single system to start with, and work that one Until you are making a good solid income.

I know this may sound strange, but I moved away from these types of business models, only because dealing with people day in and day out kind of wore me down. I actually got into IM so that I wouldn't have to deal with "customers" all day, haha. So I build and promote my own niche sites instead.

-- Jeff

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payoman

12 years ago

I am blown away by these numbers, to be quite honest.

It's very hard to comprehend this. Sorry to bother you, but each reply just raises more and more questions!! I will post this as my last post for tonite, as I am in Australia and it's 2:30am, but here's a couple of points that are raised instantly (mostly SEO related):

1. What exactly do you pitch for your price, and in what timeframe? IE "I can get your business on the first page of Google within a month for $X?"

2. Also, would you care to share a rough SEO guideline to achieve this? To give you an idea, most of the top ranked local businesses in my area have been SEO'd already, with usually between 500-1000 backlinks, but never above that figure. My issue right now isn't really HOW to get the backlinks, more like WHEN can clients expect significant results? Obviously they are paying big money and need timeframes/expectations etc

3. With lead generation, could I simply set up a site say 'xtown electricians', get them to submit details, then call up Electrician and say 'I can give you jobs for X dollars'. How will they trust me? What if they get nothing out of the leads?

ARGH I feel like I'm being greedy for answers, please don't feel obligated to reply haha! Thanks for everything so far, amazing thread

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theverysmartguy

12 years ago

Originally Posted by payoman

I am blown away by these numbers, to be quite honest.

It's very hard to comprehend this. Sorry to bother you, but each reply just raises more and more questions!! I will post this as my last post for tonite, as I am in Australia and it's 2:30am, but here's a couple of points that are raised instantly (mostly SEO related):

1. What exactly do you pitch for your price, and in what timeframe? IE "I can get your business on the first page of Google within a month for ?"

2. Also, would you care to share a rough SEO guideline to achieve this? To give you an idea, most of the top ranked local businesses in my area have been SEO'd already, with usually between 500-1000 backlinks, but never above that figure. My issue right now isn't really HOW to get the backlinks, more like WHEN can clients expect significant results? Obviously they are paying big money and need timeframes/expectations etc

3. With lead generation, could I simply set up a site say 'xtown electricians', get them to submit details, then call up Electrician and say 'I can give you jobs for X dollars'. How will they trust me? What if they get nothing out of the leads?

ARGH I feel like I'm being greedy for answers, please don't feel obligated to reply haha! Thanks for everything so far, amazing thread

1. I don't actually give them a "time frame", doing that brings about unrealistic expectations. And you get a bunch of keywords to target, and say that you will get one of those on to the front page of Google; just dont give a time frame.

2. Give them monthly reports. Target the list of keywords and aim to get at least one to the first page of Google. Let them know that it is an on going process because their competition is doing the same thing. Once you get the 1 keyword there, maintain it, and then aim to get another keyword there.

3. Create a small info site, then get it to the top of the serps. Then approach a few companies in that niche and tell them that you have this website in their niche that is set up for lead generation. Then just charge them a flat rate for each of the leads you give them.

You basically need to word it, and research it to the point that anyone coming to that website is looking for an electrician in the area.

Don't worry about asking to many questions. This is a place of learning.

-- Jeff

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Could an experienced internet marketer pass on some advice?

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