What CS Degree to do?

38 replies
Hey!

I'm currently thinking of what I should study at further education, for sure, I'm doing a degree that involves coding of some sort or 3D Modelling. Furthermore I've taken great interest in Computer Graphics, DirectX11/DirectX10/Direct3D11 to name a few, I'm currently learning Java and DirextX10 and within a few months, I'll be publishing my first App on the Android OS, from my research, I'll make somewhere in the range of $20k within 3-4 months, If I follow my plans correctly that is; I've heard the best way to get into a top College/Uni - is to be noticed.

If any of you have been to College/Uni and have a CS degree I would appreciate your feedback greatly, I know it sounds silly, but I'm only 14 and I'm thinking about what I want to do, I guess it's better to decide what you want to earlier in life.

If you have any advice or questions, please make a comment.

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#degree
  • Profile picture of the author David Lamb
    I don't think you'll find too many proponents of a college education on a site like this.

    Internet marketing doesn't require a college degree and the potential income is much higher.

    However, if your dream is to get some kind of advanced computer graphics training, consider a specialized trade school so you don't have to spend two years of your life in liberal arts classes. Here in the US, there are places like Full Sail University and DeVry University. They're not cheap, but you'll get your training much faster at specialized schools like those.
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    • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
      Originally Posted by David Lamb View Post

      I don't think you'll find too many proponents of a college education on a site like this.

      Internet marketing doesn't require a college degree and the potential income is much higher.

      However, if your dream is to get some kind of advanced computer graphics training, consider a specialized trade school so you don't have to spend two years of your life in liberal arts classes. Here in the US, there are places like Full Sail University and DeVry University. They're not cheap, but you'll get your training much faster at specialized schools like those.
      That's true, but this is not about money as such, I totally disagree with your comment about income too, with this you have the power to become a millionaire. Writing a game engine for yourself or just a game and self publishing can result in millions, if not ten's of millions or you could work for a top company?

      Sure, you can do al your CPA/SEO, but I always go by the quote "The Further up the food chain you're, the higher range of money that you can accumulate increase's.

      I was thinking more of the lines on -MIT/Stanford.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by David Lamb View Post

      I don't think you'll find too many proponents of a college education on a site like this.
      You haven't read most of the (very many, very long) threads discussing this, then, David. Actually not much could be further from the truth! There's an overwhelming consensus of opinion here - among those who take part in such discussions, anyway - in favour of college education.

      It's one of the comparatively few recurrent issues here on which I can always rely on finding myself among the great majority.
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    • Profile picture of the author salegurus
      Originally Posted by David Lamb View Post

      I don't think you'll find too many proponents of a college education on a site like this.

      Internet marketing doesn't require a college degree and the potential income is much higher.
      That's right "Potential Income".
      I would never advocate against someone getting a college education if they had the opportunity, that's just plain stupid.

      Yes from starting college to when you start earning takes a few years but depending on their chosen field the college graduate could be earning $150K plus per year while you're still trying to sell $25 eBooks...
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      • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
        Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

        That's right "Potential Income".
        I would never advocate against someone getting a college education if they had the opportunity, that's just plain stupid.

        Yes from starting college to when you start earning takes a few years but depending on their chosen field the college graduate could be earning $150K plus per year while you're still trying to sell $25 eBooks...
        Originally Posted by Mike Ogbin View Post

        I see "simplybeastz" In your discussions that you are so passionate about learning Computer Science.

        This is my favorite course This is CS50 OpenCourseWare from the best University in the world (Harvard) presented by Dr David J Malan, this course is a complete one including Lectures, notes, slides, source code, seminars some quizzes and much more.

        you can participate for their Google group to discuss anything you didn't understand in this course or anything.

        Take a look on it I am sure you will learn much more This is CS50 OpenCourseWare
        Wow! That's a great site, I'll take a look at some of the code. I've been watching CS lectures on YouTube, admittedly they're boring, but it's 10x better than learning from a Book.

        Yes, ss I said, you can sell your $35 WSO's, but I doubt you'll get anywhere, I have no issue if that's what the people want to do on here. Still, the fact remains, the higher up your're the higher your potential income. Let's take an example, You have a site that relies on Google (Search, Adsense), but let's say you CREATED Google, the potential income is far greater.

        One of Google (160B Net Worth) Philosophies is "Learn Programming" - I rest my case, on that.

        Thanks for all the feedback, it's been really helpful; I'm trying to contact Rendering architects on Twitter too.

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  • Profile picture of the author briteday
    I don't know if computer graphics will still be the place to be. Sure, 10 or 20 years ago. But, what tends to happen is (at least two things)... 1) a job market that is obviously desirable becomes saturated, 2) tasks requiring higher paid expertise is automated and standardized so that it costs less.

    You want to be right after the Bleeding Edge of the newest stuff, with experience that is scarce (if not rare). It is hard to do. In my career, I invested alot of time and effort in things that looked to be the next hot item, only to have the playing field change unexpectedly, and most, if not all, of that effort wasted. That is, I was adopting just before the Bleeding Edge.

    I have a book in my library titled, "Think 2 products ahead". That is where you want to be, so that when the time comes, you are in the right place at the right time. Good Luck!

    On the other hand, Microcode, the machine language coding of I.C. is like being a God in C.S. and I suspect it will always be so. Because so few are willilng to do it and those that do are always considered a bit crazy ;-)

    ...another thing occurred to me. Till you are the hot item that the Headhunters are trying to recruit away from the Competition, take whatever opportunity you get for Real World Experience. Do not worry about pay and such until you have "made it". For example (and I can think of many), a computer company where I was a Manager, our top Programmer for creating the driver for a video capture board we manufactured (and back then THAT was a hot item) idolized working at Microsoft (and was critical of how crappy the company we worked for was). His niche specific job experience on Computer Graphics snagged him that Microsoft jobs within two years after!

    I never wanted to work at Microsoft (and they called more than a few times), but to each his own.

    Set a target and get experience and expertise in it. Even if you target shifts over the years, it will likely be useful.
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    • Profile picture of the author bitriot
      I used my C.S. degree to build a career as a Quality Analyst. I make 55k a year for reference, and I spend half of each day working on my IM business. It is pretty cool.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
    I did a computer science degree at Bristol in the UK and loved it. The programming skills I learned there along with the general higher level reasoning stuff are amazing.

    Not to mention that I met all 3 of my business partners there.

    A computer science degree is an excellent choice just be careful of the games industry. It is incredibly competitive and salaries are dirt.

    Definitely an excellent founding for a future in IM.

    Hope that helps,

    Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    At 14 years old there is nothing more important than an education. You seem to have your head on your shoulders pretty well.

    When I was 14 I couldn't get past how well the young lady in front of me smelled lol.

    As you evaluate your educational needs, take into consideration what direction could best advance your future marketing career.
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  • Profile picture of the author temlawn
    @Simplybeastz - Good for you! I started at your age about 25 years ago.. of course today's technology is way, way more advanced. My personal word of advice ' Do what you love and the money will follow ' its nice to see a youngster like yourself focusing on coding and business instead of sitting infront of a iphone texting misc. junk for hours on end!

    To Your success!! All the luck in the world to you!! My Degree was actually CIS (computer information systems) and many many hours of self teaching from there

    Good luck with your project!!
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    • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
      Thanks for all the suggestions, I wasn't thinking with IM in general. In my personal opinion, coding is what can get you places and can make you a millionaire, if you try hard at it. One Google's quotes is "Learning Programming." I rest my case on that.

      Besides, I think it would be Ãœber cool to be at the forefront on Graphics in Computers or I could go to Nvidia/ATI, make GPU's, there's so many possibilities. Either way, your in for a killing - money-wise.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

    I'm currently thinking of what I should study at further education
    Avoid technology-based stuff; it changes too fast. Don't do anything that will teach you how to use product XYZ for something - in a year, product XYZ will be completely different and you've wasted your time and money.

    Instead, go for the things that never change.

    You're in business. Economics is critical. At least do a couple 100 level courses in that, as electives if necessary.

    On the internet, a Statistics class or two is another critical element to pick up, or you won't be able to tell good testing from complete crap.

    Beyond that, go for the critical underpinnings of what you want to do. CS classes are good on the foundational levels where you learn algorithms, data structures, and fundamental procedures. Design and analysis courses. Similarly, for 3D modeling, go directly to art classes - sculpting, painting, etc. Understanding how physical objects work is where most 3D modelers fail miserably and can't get a job.

    Give some consideration to Industrial Design, which often teaches far more useful 3D modeling skills than animation courses.
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    • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Avoid technology-based stuff; it changes too fast. Don't do anything that will teach you how to use product XYZ for something - in a year, product XYZ will be completely different and you've wasted your time and money.

      Instead, go for the things that never change.

      You're in business. Economics is critical. At least do a couple 100 level courses in that, as electives if necessary.

      On the internet, a Statistics class or two is another critical element to pick up, or you won't be able to tell good testing from complete crap.

      Beyond that, go for the critical underpinnings of what you want to do. CS classes are good on the foundational levels where you learn algorithms, data structures, and fundamental procedures. Design and analysis courses. Similarly, for 3D modeling, go directly to art classes - sculpting, painting, etc. Understanding how physical objects work is where most 3D modelers fail miserably and can't get a job.

      Give some consideration to Industrial Design, which often teaches far more useful 3D modeling skills than animation courses.
      To my understanding CS is the foundation, if indeed Technology does change, you always have your underpinning CS degree and if needs be you learn more languages, all OO Coding is nearly the same, it's just learning Syntax.

      I still don't think Graphics is still relying on a Single Product, yes you have DX/OpenGL/WebGL, but the fundamentals are the same - at the end of the day.

      You could say the same about an Economics degree as such, everything is always changing, you can't predict what sectors their will be in 2030-2050.

      Thanks nonetheless, CD.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

        To my understanding CS is the foundation
        However, both "Object Oriented Analysis and Design" and "Object Oriented Programming in Java" are CS courses. The former is good forever. The latter is good for nothing.

        I still don't think Graphics is still relying on a Single Product, yes you have DX/OpenGL/WebGL, but the fundamentals are the same - at the end of the day.
        Yes, they're called "trigonometry and analytical geometry." They'd be in the math department.

        You could say the same about an Economics degree
        The Austrian school of economic thought dates back to the 1830s.

        Object oriented methodologies date back to the 1970s.

        That's not even in the same ballpark in terms of longevity.

        And bear in mind that you're talking to someone who was a software developer for twenty years, the last five of them at Microsoft.

        I'm not pulling this out of my arse because I don't like CS. Quite the opposite: I wasted my time on CS when I should have spent it on Econ and Stat, because CS was fun and they weren't. I'm giving you the advice I wish someone had given me when I was about to make the same decisions you're making, because when I got out into the Real World (TM) and didn't have time to take classes anymore, I got to see which classes really mattered and which ones were stupid.

        But hey, it's still your decision.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          However, both "Object Oriented Analysis and Design" and "Object Oriented Programming in Java" are CS courses. The former is good forever. The latter is good for nothing.



          Yes, they're called "trigonometry and analytical geometry." They'd be in the math department.



          The Austrian school of economic thought dates back to the 1830s.

          Object oriented methodologies date back to the 1970s.

          That's not even in the same ballpark in terms of longevity.

          And bear in mind that you're talking to someone who was a software developer for twenty years, the last five of them at Microsoft.

          I'm not pulling this out of my arse because I don't like CS. Quite the opposite: I wasted my time on CS when I should have spent it on Econ and Stat, because CS was fun and they weren't. I'm giving you the advice I wish someone had given me when I was about to make the same decisions you're making, because when I got out into the Real World (TM) and didn't have time to take classes anymore, I got to see which classes really mattered and which ones were stupid.

          But hey, it's still your decision.
          I still understand your point, but I disagree, as such. People will always learn new languages'. As long as we have computers in general, we'll have CS. This theory can be applied to a lot of things, take Maths/Science for example; let's say someone comes up with a new maths theory, which has happened in the past, did the Maths change? Yes, but the fundamentals are the same, I can more than understand your point with Graphics Computing, but the fundamentals will stay the same.

          Just another point, Mobile tech has taken off. Android uses' Java and IOS use's ObJ C, which a slight API built in. The programming is the same, just the syntax and methods/statements are different.

          Also, you seems to have done not that badly out of CS?

          Is that your point, that there's no point doing a Tech degree? Well, let's out-rule Economics... What about Geography? Not intill the 1950's, did scientist know about Global convection currents and pangea.
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

            the fundamentals will stay the same.
            If you look back at what I said, I told you to concentrate on those fundamentals instead of anything technology-specific. Your disagreement is primarily that you do not understand what I am saying.

            Is that your point, that there's no point doing a Tech degree?
            My point is to study fundamentals and not technologies, dumbass.
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            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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            • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post



              My point is to study fundamentals and not technologies, dumbass.
              Do you really think that was needed? Do you have to emphasise your point with an insult?

              If you can't have a discussion, don't comment. Pretty simple, Huh?
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              • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

                Do you really think that was needed? Do you have to emphasise your point with an insult?
                Evidently, yes:

                Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                CS classes are good on the foundational levels where you learn algorithms, data structures, and fundamental procedures.
                Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

                I still understand your point, but I disagree... the fundamentals will stay the same.
                No, you do not understand my point. When you ask for advice, at the very least have the damn courtesy to read it.
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                "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
                  Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                  Evidently, yes:





                  No, you do not understand my point. When you ask for advice, at the very least have the damn courtesy to read it.
                  Of course I looked through it. I just didn't understand your point, not much shame in that.
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                  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                    Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

                    Of course I looked through it. I just didn't understand your point, not much shame in that.
                    No, the shame is where you don't understand my point, try to argue with it by stating the same point, and then object to being called a dumbass.
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                    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                    • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
                      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                      No, the shame is where you don't understand my point, try to argue with it by stating the same point, and then object to being called a dumbass.
                      I've now lost faith in humanity.

                      http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/36axk9/
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                      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                        Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

                        I've now lost faith in humanity.
                        I didn't call you a dumbass when I ran out of points. I called you a dumbass when you tried to use the same point. If we must use memes for this, then

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                        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author bitriot
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          However, both "Object Oriented Analysis and Design" and "Object Oriented Programming in Java" are CS courses. The former is good forever. The latter is good for nothing.
          As a graduate of the DePaul University with a B.S. in C.S. I agree wholeheartedly with Darklock: our core language was OO Java and, today, Java jobs are few and far between.

          The great thing about programming however is that the fundamentals remain the same, its just the syntax that changes.
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          • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
            Originally Posted by bitriot View Post

            As a graduate of the DePaul University with a B.S. in C.S. I agree wholeheartedly with Darklock: our core language was OO Java and, today, Java jobs are few and far between.

            The great thing about programming however is that the fundamentals remain the same, its just the syntax that changes.
            That was my point.



            P.S Your "Image" is not a Meme, Dumbass.
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  • Profile picture of the author YasirYar
    You really are looking for advice from the wrong people. What you want is to find yourself a site where coders hang out and get advice from them. Most IM people either don't have a degree or don't use what they learned in college for anything other than getting a piece of paper to decorate the wall with.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vonmoore
    If you have any interest in it, go with Microcode. While certain code goes in and out of favor this should remain in demand.
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  • Profile picture of the author perfectpixel
    Banned
    That's pretty awesome how you're thinking ahead at age 14, computer graphics and AI might be your thing if you're into that, also consider a math minor
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    • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
      Originally Posted by perfectpixel View Post

      That's pretty awesome how you're thinking ahead at age 14, computer graphics and AI might be your thing if you're into that, also consider a math minor
      Contrary to popular belief, OO programming isn't that mathy as such.
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      • Profile picture of the author perfectpixel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

        Contrary to popular belief, OO programming isn't that mathy as such.
        That's true, CS as a whole isn't that tied to math which is contrary to what some profs would want you to believe unless you're writing a mathematica program. But stuff like combinators and graph theory can help depending on the algorithms you're trying to create
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

        Contrary to popular belief, OO programming isn't that mathy as such.
        3D graphics are, which is why he recommended a math minor if that was your thing.

        Do you know what's really, REALLY important in the computer industry?

        Paying some damn attention.

        Details, details, details. It's critical, at some points, to know whether your parameters are being passed by value or by reference. How the call stack is arranged. Whether a particular pointer is in scope. When you've crossed a boxing threshold.


        And understanding what they mean is sort of important, too.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author perfectpixel
    Banned
    also if you're more hardware inclined it's probably better to go into computer engineering
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  • Profile picture of the author rbates
    Go with it! If that computers is where your interests lie, then that is what you should be going after.

    There is nothing to stop you from doing internet marketing to help yourself fund your studies. You will be much better equipped for IM by having a programming background. Most IMers have little if any knowledge of programming.
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  • Profile picture of the author perfectpixel
    Banned
    i also recommend finding a program with an internship to help with financing your education
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    You guys are all way smarter than me on this subject...

    That said, it's cool to have big dreams at 14 but I wouldn't
    ignore those marketing and business classes. From where I
    sit, unless you really do have the chops to get into Stanford
    or MIT codeslingers are pretty much a dime a dozen these days.
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    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Ogbin
    I see "simplybeastz" In your discussions that you are so passionate about learning Computer Science.

    This is my favorite course This is CS50 OpenCourseWare from the best University in the world (Harvard) presented by Dr David J Malan, this course is a complete one including Lectures, notes, slides, source code, seminars some quizzes and much more.

    you can participate for their Google group to discuss anything you didn't understand in this course or anything.

    Take a look on it I am sure you will learn much more This is CS50 OpenCourseWare
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    Speedy Up - Jumping game that change your mood and put smile in your face :)
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  • Profile picture of the author cleanerupper
    If you're 14 and already thinking about college and a career, your mental maturity is far beyond 99.999% of other 14 year olds out there. Obviously this is a good thing. Since your brain is basically a sponge at this age, my advice would be to learn and practice as many programming technologies as possible. Learning these languages would provide a great foundation for future Internet marketing ventures:

    1) HTML (both 4 & 5)
    2) CSS (both 2 & 3)
    3) PHP
    4) Javascript (jQuery in particular)
    5) C++, Python, Java (Used to write the Google search engine)
    6) iOS (iPhone and iPad)
    7) Android OS (Android phones)

    It never hurts to learn something new. I personally would not worry about things going outdated or whatnot. When working in a technical field of any sort, you are forced to continually learn new technologies, something that most intellectual people like yourself never get tired of.

    In addition to learning, you should be constantly producing new things. I don't care if its a crappy looking first website with some cheesy graphics, at least its a start. You will find your productive abilities constantly evolving and increasing in efficiency over time. There is a famous photographer by the name of Chase Jarvis whom has a very inspirational, but straight to the point article on his website. Here's a quote from it, "Over-thinking, pontificating, and wondering are tools for the slacker. People don’t care what almost happened, or what your problems are or why something wasn’t. They care about what is, and what will be. That requires actually making stuff happen. Pros do, make, ship, send, publish, post and deliver; amateurs sit around and wonder, or worse, scratch their arse."
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    • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
      Originally Posted by cleanerupper View Post

      If you're 14 and already thinking about college and a career, your mental maturity is far beyond 99.999% of other 14 year olds out there. Obviously this is a good thing. Since your brain is basically a sponge at this age, my advice would be to learn and practice as many programming technologies as possible. Learning these languages would provide a great foundation for future Internet marketing ventures:

      1) HTML (both 4 & 5)
      2) CSS (both 2 & 3)
      3) PHP
      4) Javascript (jQuery in particular)
      5) C++, Python, Java (Used to write the Google search engine)
      6) iOS (iPhone and iPad)
      7) Android OS (Android phones)

      It never hurts to learn something new. I personally would not worry about things going outdated or whatnot. When working in a technical field of any sort, you are forced to continually learn new technologies, something that most intellectual people like yourself never get tired of.

      In addition to learning, you should be constantly producing new things. I don't care if its a crappy looking first website with some cheesy graphics, at least its a start. You will find your productive abilities constantly evolving and increasing in efficiency over time. There is a famous photographer by the name of Chase Jarvis whom has a very inspirational, but straight to the point article on his website. Here's a quote from it, "Over-thinking, pontificating, and wondering are tools for the slacker. People don't care what almost happened, or what your problems are or why something wasn't. They care about what is, and what will be. That requires actually making stuff happen. Pros do, make, ship, send, publish, post and deliver; amateurs sit around and wonder, or worse, scratch their arse."

      I know 70% of the Languages their, I just need to brush up a bit of HTML 5. I'm currently developing a Java App for Android aimed at teens. Well, it's going to be a bit of a spin on Social Networking as such. You can text, call and conference call people, but I also have a Social Networking feature - sadly, I can't say what it is on a Public Board, I don't want any of my idea stolen, but from my research, it's pretty nifty idea.

      Besides, I'll probably make somewhere between 10-35K with this App, if all goes well. That's something, I can show to the top colleges MIT/Stanford - giving me a higher chance of being accepted.

      I'll be moving onto XNA/DirectX programming within a few months, once I've finished with Java & PHP, but it's going to be trickiest language so far, let's hope it all goes well.

      I'll take a look at the article too, thanks!


      Nonetheless, thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author cleanerupper
    One more thing: don't let any dumb ****s on this board put you down for your ideas. At age 14 you have a gigantic head start on everyone else's marketing efforts. If you work learn hard, work hard, and constantly deliver new ideas and products, you can easily be pulling in $100,000 annually by the time you're 18.

    Edit: Had to add this for good measure. This is not you, 14 year old dude. This is the dudes on the board who try to put you down.

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