21 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
21 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

Honest Opinion Needed - Niche Market - Need Advice

by BeckM2
18 replies
Hi All,
I'm a dentist and a web developer and I'm marketing a web design guide to other dentists. I was hoping a couple of people could take a look from a marketing perspective and give this part of the site a good thrashing.

I run analytics am I'm well versed in tracking (E.g. I know if I get 100 people to the purchase page and nobody buys then there's something wrong with my price, my cart, etc), so I'm what I'm really looking to find out is:

1) am I making any GLARING marketing errors?

2) am I leaving anything out that should be there?

Using techniques I've learned here on WF I've been able to do a ok with a one-page sales page for an eBook, but this is a big project and a physical mailed product and it's a much larger scope than my eBook was.

BTW: The price is high but I've done my research and it is on par with what dentists would pay for this type of research.

The link is:
www.shorthillsdesign.com/workbook.

And lastly, is this product too niche to do affiliate marketing with? Or is "no product too small".

Thank you very much!
R
#advice #honest #market #needed #niche #opinion
  • Profile picture of the author Elmar
    A few things here:

    The landing page is too busy.

    Purchase link is buried in a sea of other links.

    No powerful headline.

    If your demographics is over 30 then the font is too small

    Language used is very impersonal (corporate sounding). Try to write more as if your talking one on one with another dentist.

    Sorry but this page needs a lot of work. As I consult for a lot of businesses I see the same mistakes over and over. Don't try to copy big companies. Follow the advice here in WF you will see very different results.

    In regards to affiliate marketing I think its a great market and not small at all. Once you have a sizable list you can look in to renting your list or doing JV's, it doesnt always have to affiliate marketing.

    Hope this helps
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5701891].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
    Some thoughts:

    - You need to put this page without a sidebar.
    - You need to explain the benefits of your product. Why should I use your product? How will it help me? Don't talk about features, tell me it will bring me new business and how it will do that.
    - Why should I listen to you? What have you done? Need more details about that. Give me some statistics about websites you've helped build for dentists, how much business it brought those dentists, etc.
    - Font is way too small
    - Don't make them click those links to find more info. Put ALL of that on the page, and then ONE call to action with is the PURCHASE link you have at the bottom.

    Start with that and come back.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5701935].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BeckM2
      Originally Posted by Bill_Z View Post

      Some thoughts:

      - You need to put this page without a sidebar.
      - You need to explain the benefits of your product. Why should I use your product? How will it help me? Don't talk about features, tell me it will bring me new business and how it will do that.
      - Why should I listen to you? What have you done? Need more details about that. Give me some statistics about websites you've helped build for dentists, how much business it brought those dentists, etc.
      - Font is way too small
      - Don't make them click those links to find more info. Put ALL of that on the page, and then ONE call to action with is the PURCHASE link you have at the bottom.

      Start with that and come back.
      First thanks a million to you both.
      1) I have SO much information about the book, though -- wouldn't all of the info on a single page be ridiculously long?

      2) The reason dentists need the book is twofold:
      A) dentists waste money on crappy websites without knowing what they really need and this book will let them know what they should be getting for their money

      B) If you don't have a website a dentist will simply not be able to compete in today's market. end of story.

      3) Is the order above the order I should list the points:
      a) Benefits, Why I'm an authority, Benefits, Call to Action

      I will kill the sidebar and make the font larger.
      Thanks.
      Signature
      Short Hills Design, LLC
      Internet Marketing for Dentists and Physicians
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5701962].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
        Originally Posted by BeckM2 View Post

        First thanks a million to you both.
        1) I have SO much information about the book, though -- wouldn't all of the info on a single page be ridiculously long?
        Don't put all of it, but put the most important stuff. Test different amounts of info, but you IMO you definitely need more than you have now.

        Originally Posted by BeckM2 View Post

        2) The reason dentists need the book is twofold:
        A) dentists waste money on crappy websites without knowing what they really need and this book will let them know what they should be getting for their money

        B) If you don't have a website a dentist will simply not be able to compete in today's market. end of story.
        Yes, put that stuff on the page and expand on those thoughts.

        Originally Posted by BeckM2 View Post

        3) Is the order above the order I should list the points:
        a) Benefits, Why I'm an authority, Benefits, Call to Action
        Yes, that's a good start.
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5701995].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author BeckM2
          I did some reworking:

          www.shorthillsdesign.com/workbook

          It still needs a LOT more work but I GET what you've both said and I like the new, consolidated look already. Thank you both SO much.

          Some last things:

          1) I have links out there on other websites (forums, etc) to the "features" pages and the "worksheets" page and the "download a sample" page. Should I leave these intact and simply use them for testing? or should I redirect all of these pages to the main workbook page (which now of course I'm really starting to like)?

          My concern is that if I have a link on another site that says. "download a free content sample" and it redirects to the main workbook page, people may get confused.

          2) What should I do about the other free-standing pages that are left? (please see the top-right dropdown navigation) I will no longer put new links out to the "features" and "free download" pages, but I still have an "about the author" and a "FAQ" page.

          Is there still room on the now-refined landing page to put some of the FAQ information? I don't think I need "about the author" since that info is now in the landing page. I know that I'm not supposed to give people clicks away from my sales page (which is why I'm dumb for even putting a sidebar in the first place-- duh!)

          3) Is it ok to put a "not ready to buy but join our mailing list to get a taste of what you will learn" kind of thing? I learned here about giving a free download in exchange for joining the mailing list and it worked really well on another site. I offer a free "AdWords guide" in exchange for signing up -- but does that have a place on a sales page like this?

          4) My site navigation has the usual stuff on the left, with "Workbook" and "Buy Now" on the right. Should I leave it this way or should I integrate these two links with the main nav.

          Thank you again!
          R
          Signature
          Short Hills Design, LLC
          Internet Marketing for Dentists and Physicians
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5706611].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author bt
        The first thing I notice right off the bat, Is the colors. Try adding some more colors to brighten It up a bit. Make It look more lively.
        Signature
        You could get 1 Million Visitors to your website for free, you have got to see this
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5702011].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Suraj Muralee
    I completely agree with Elmar.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5706643].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author gvsridhar171
      What I have noticed in your website is that you are expecting the visitor to buy your e-book straight away which doesn't happen overnight unless someone recommends.

      You are giving away very many free information for nothing. Remember you have a very valuable product and you shouldn't give what that information is so easily. I was doing the same mistake but I learnt my way out by going through some suggestions given by warriors.

      I suggest the following :

      If some one visits your website, it should be a squeeze page and not the web info that you have given.

      The redirect page should go to this website and then they may go through fully or they may not.

      Once you have captured their email ids, then create auto responders and keep sending them valuable information with an action button at the bottom which should take them to buy the e-book from you.

      Try doing this and your business will boom in my opinion. I leave it to other warriors to add a few more points to this.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5706713].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author BeckM2
        Originally Posted by gvsridhar171 View Post

        What I have noticed in your website is that you are expecting the visitor to buy your e-book straight away which doesn't happen overnight unless someone recommends.

        You are giving away very many free information for nothing. Remember you have a very valuable product and you shouldn't give what that information is so easily. I was doing the same mistake but I learnt my way out by going through some suggestions given by warriors.


        I suggest the following :

        If some one visits your website, it should be a squeeze page and not the web info that you have given.

        The redirect page should go to this website and then they may go through fully or they may not.

        Once you have captured their email ids, then create auto responders and keep sending them valuable information with an action button at the bottom which should take them to buy the e-book from you.

        Try doing this and your business will boom in my opinion. I leave it to other warriors to add a few more points to this.
        Thank you for your suggestions.

        1. Actually it's not an e-book. It's a physical product. Does that change things? Do I need to make that more clear?

        2. Where am I giving away info that's valuable? I though I was simply showing people the "checklist" of why they need the workbook?

        3. I don't understand your last point about the emails. I know form GA that "adwords" is a topic that drives people to my blog. So I wrote an adwords guide specific for my niche (Dentists) that I give away free with the newsletter signup (and then the newsletter naturally plugs the book).

        This website is also my company website so I don't like the idea of having a single squeeze page for the newsetter. That's why I put the newsletter signup on the blog pages sidebar. Is that a problem?

        Thank you.
        Signature
        Short Hills Design, LLC
        Internet Marketing for Dentists and Physicians
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5706798].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author gvsridhar171
          Originally Posted by BeckM2 View Post

          Thank you for your suggestions.
          This website is also my company website so I don't like the idea of having a single squeeze page for the newsetter. That's why I put the newsletter signup on the blog pages sidebar. Is that a problem?
          Thank you.
          The point is "you need to build your email list". This can happen only if they find that option available for them in a prominent location in your website. Part of the checklist that you have provided can be a part of your squeeze page.

          But if you dont want a squeeze page then place the double optin field which is visible to anyone who visits your website.

          Whenever you are wanting to sell any product, your visitor will first be a suspect, then a possible prospect, then a customer. Converting suspects to prospects is a herculian task. Then converting prospects into real time customers is another herculian task.

          The answer for this is "regular emails to them". If regular emails have to go you need every visitor who comes to your website to fill up those lovely two fields "Email id and their Name".

          Once you are successful in getting this done, the rest is automatic.
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5706889].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
    Much better! Way better than before. I think what the guy above me is saying is that it's easier to make sales when you collect optins and market to them via follow up emails. While that is the case, that is something you can incorporate later. Keep working on your sales page, read up on copywriting, etc.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5706996].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BeckM2
      Originally Posted by Bill_Z View Post

      Much better! Way better than before. I think what the guy above me is saying is that it's easier to make sales when you collect optins and market to them via follow up emails. While that is the case, that is something you can incorporate later. Keep working on your sales page, read up on copywriting, etc.
      Thank you so much for following-up. I appreciate it. Now I will try to build on the foundation.
      Signature
      Short Hills Design, LLC
      Internet Marketing for Dentists and Physicians
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5707387].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    Originally Posted by BeckM2 View Post

    1) am I making any GLARING marketing errors?
    Yes. You're targeting dentists who also want to be web developers. That's quite a narrow demographic.

    If dentists are like most professionals, they'd probably like a website built for them by a developer who understands their market. You should either provide that service or target your product to web developers looking to specialize in dentistry.

    As it stands, you're expecting other dentists to spend time and a tidy sum learning about building dentist-specific websites, after which exercise they'd still have to go and find a sympathetic developer to get their sites built.


    Frank
    Signature


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5707031].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BeckM2
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      Yes. You're targeting dentists who also want to be web developers. That's quite a narrow demographic.

      If dentists are like most professionals, they'd probably like a website built for them by a developer who understands their market. You should either provide that service or target your product to web developers looking to specialize in dentistry.

      As it stands, you're expecting other dentists to spend time and a tidy sum learning about building dentist-specific websites, after which exercise they'd still have to go and find a sympathetic developer to get their sites built.


      Frank
      Thanks for looking, Frank. But the whole point of the book is that it's NOT for "dentists who also want to be web developers." I must have really missed the mark on my copywriting -- so thank you for your perspective.

      Here's what I'm trying to say to all dentists but I'm having trouble:

      1. All dentists need a website to be successful.

      2. Considering that you (a dentist) NEED a website to be succesful, you NEED to read this guide so you spend your money wisely and don't get ripped off by developers who don't know what they are doing. You can drive all the traffic to your website in the world, but if your website is terrible then you won't get new patients. Just having a website isn't enough -- you need to have a great one and this book will tell you what a "great" website needs.

      3. Since you are going to spend at least $2000 to have a website built (dentists do spend this money), then spending $280 on a book like mine is s drop in the bucket to make sure that you are getting a website that does what it's supposed to do.

      That's the core of what I want to say is, "invest in my book and save yourself from spending thousands of dollars on a crappy website - no computer knowledge needed".

      The book is not technical at all and I don't expect dentists to code. The book is really there to help dentist know what they are supposed to be getting for their money.

      So the above is what I'm (clearly) having a hard-time making clear.

      Thanks.
      Signature
      Short Hills Design, LLC
      Internet Marketing for Dentists and Physicians
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5707434].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by BeckM2 View Post

        That's the core of what I want to say is, "invest in my book and save yourself from spending thousands of dollars on a crappy website - no computer knowledge needed".
        Yes, I understand. I'm sure there are some dentists who might be interested in your product. My point is that the larger, and potentially more receptive market, is web developers.

        Consider the following scenarios:

        I'm a busy dentist. I have so far had either little time or little interest in putting up a website - because if I had, I would already have a site, or I'd be sufficiently clued up on what requirements my site would need.

        So:

        Option 1) I spend $280 on a comprehensive manual, teaching me the basics of using WordPress, planning a site's navigation structure, using Flash, SEO, keywords, backups etc. Of course, having no prior knowledge of, or interest in, these concepts, I have to climb a steep learning curve.

        Then, after I eventually work my way through the manual, I go out and find a web developer and pay another $2,000 to get my site built. I hope that they understand what I want, but as I have no experience of websites or internet marketing, I realize it's still a bit of a crap shoot.

        Option 2) I'm approached by a web developer who explains the specific requirements of a dentist's website and shows me examples of sites they've built for other dentists and how those dentists have since benefited; demonstrating their understanding of my profession and instilling confidence in me of their knowledge and competence.

        After a brief period of consideration, I pay them $2,000 and let them get on with it while I carry on with my business.


        Then look at it from the perspective of a web developer:

        This is a crowded and highly competitive market in which any edge could prove decisive. Specializing in a particular, tightly-focused professional group in which there are many wealthy and time-poor operatives might just be what I need. And all it would take is an investment of $280 and a bit of study.

        Maybe I even get access to a list of dentists without websites or cite a personal recommendation or acknowledgement from an experienced dentist/web developer.

        That's all I was saying.


        Frank
        Signature


        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5707790].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author BeckM2
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          Yes, I understand. I'm sure there are some dentists who might be interested in your product. My point is that the larger, and potentially more receptive market, is web developers.

          Consider the following scenarios:

          I'm a busy dentist. I have so far had either little time or little interest in putting up a website - because if I had, I would already have a site, or I'd be sufficiently clued up on what requirements my site would need.

          So:

          Option 1) I spend $280 on a comprehensive manual, teaching me the basics of using WordPress, planning a site's navigation structure, using Flash, SEO, keywords, backups etc. Of course, having no prior knowledge of, or interest in, these concepts, I expect there to be a steep learning curve.

          Then, after I eventually work my way through the manual, I go out and find a web developer and pay another $2,000 to get my site built. I hope that they understand what I want, but as I have no experience of websites or internet marketing, I realize it's still a bit of a crap shoot.

          Option 2) I'm approached by a web developer who explains the specific requirements of a dentist's website and shows me examples of sites they've built for other dentists and how those dentists have since benefited; demonstrating their understanding of my profession and instilling confidence in me of their knowledge and competance.

          After a brief period of consideration, I pay them $2,000 and let them get on with it while I carry on with my business.


          Then look at from the perspective of a web developer:

          This is a crowded and highly competitive market in which any edge could prove decisive. Specializing in a particular profession in which there are many wealthy and time-poor operatives might just be what I need. And all it would take is an investment of $280 and a bit of study. Maybe I even get access to a list of dentists without websites or a personal recommendation from an experienced dentist/web developer.

          That's all I was saying.


          Frank
          Frank, I TOTALLY appreciate your perspective and I thank you. There are MANY dentists and doctors out there who simply "pay the 2G's" move on.

          But in my experience on dental forums, etc, there ARE dentists -- admittedly a smaller market than I'd like - who are really getting interested in these things and want to learn before they invest. It's one of the hot topics in the field and I feel like having this book is planning for a future rush of information.

          But this book won't teach the basics of wordpress -- that's not the point. Dentist can pay people to do that for them and I expect them to do so. The idea is that dentists should know -- befoer they spend 2G's, that flash is on the way out, that you need to have at least "these 5 pages", and that you should use wordpress for x, y, and z is more of the idea. I don't know how an HDMI cable works, but I know that I need that instead of component video for the new TV.


          As an aside I DO build websites for dentists and physicians and things are good. They like that I'm one of them and I have a unique perspective. My clients pay and they don't nickel and dime. But my thought is that this book would help drive more clients to my web development practice and/or work as a stand-alone product.

          But even if I don't sell a copy, I'd like to use the fact that I wrote a book as an increased measure of credibility. "Heck, he wrote a book on it"

          As for web developers as a whole, the core concepts for web design don't really change whether it is a site for a dentist, doctor, or a small business. There are some specifics for each nice, but the idea that you need <alt> tags and you should check your design on OS X is the same across all fields.

          I appreciate you idea but unfortunately a lot of web developers simply don't care enough. Like any business, there are those who are going to give you a great product with $2,000 value for $2,000, and there are others who will take that $2,000 and give you $250 in value in return.

          As for my own business, I run a niche business and my clients know the quality they get with me. I'm sure they could find a high-school student on Craiglist to do the job for 1/10th the price, but isn't that with anything?

          Anyway, thanks so much for your thoughts.
          Signature
          Short Hills Design, LLC
          Internet Marketing for Dentists and Physicians
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5707907].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
            Originally Posted by BeckM2 View Post

            As an aside I DO build websites for dentists and physicians and things are good. They like that I'm one of them and I have a unique perspective. My clients pay and they don't nickel and dime. But my thought is that this book would help drive more clients to my web development practice and/or work as a stand-alone product.

            But even if I don't sell a copy, I'd like to use the fact that I wrote a book as an increased measure of credibility. "Heck, he wrote a book on it"
            Yes, I agree that having written an authoritative guide can bestow huge credibility - particularly if it's in print.

            Anyway, I'm sure you know your market. I was just offering another perspective.

            Good luck with your book and your future business.


            Frank

            EDIT: Oops. Sorry, I see it's already in print. Er...good work!
            Signature


            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5707980].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author BeckM2
    It actually is in print. And I put text in bold on the sales page to make sure that this point is clear.

    Thank you again.
    Signature
    Short Hills Design, LLC
    Internet Marketing for Dentists and Physicians
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5707993].message }}

Trending Topics