Teach A Man To Fish Is Garbage Agree vs. Disagree

15 years ago

I know what you mean, but I would suggest that teaching them to truly "fish" encompasses all of the things you mentiond - and for some people that would include chewing.

Maybe you're missing an important step in the process. I don't know, but this could be an opportunity to create an even better product.

Because, sometimes, if things don't work it IS our fault. Not always, but it's not out of the question either.

On the other hand, there's an ancient Finnish proverb that states...

"There's idiots everywhere"

Hang in there.

All the best,
Michael

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taberdude2

15 years ago

Blase,

Some people need a little more hand holding than others.I used to own a thrift store and at least twice a week, the same lady would come in and ask"do you have a bathroom?" and also "where are the books?"

Mind you-we never moved the bathroom or the book section.

But she would always ask.

Hope this made you smile.

Deanna

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Blase

15 years ago

Originally Posted by taberdude2

Blase,

Some people need a little more hand holding than others.I used to own a thrift store and at least twice a week, the same lady would come in and ask"do you have a bathroom?" and also "where are the books?"

Mind you-we never moved the bathroom or the book section.

But she would always ask.

Hope this made you smile.

Deanna

Yes that made me laugh!

Thanks Deanna.

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absolutelee

15 years ago

Dude, this is the "give the man the fish" era! I think the days of the work ethic, personal pride, I'll do it myself, etc. might be behind us.

I remember an interview I heard of Yanik Silver. He said we're all told it's better to teach the man to fish than to give him the fish. But in marketing people just want the fish!

I think the best work around might be to design products that look like the person is getting the fish (but we all know they're really not

).

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NMP 15 years ago

But it can be hard to learn someone to fish when they are aquaphobic ;-)
Or worse, they are the fish and are aquaphobic (won't live for long, but at
least try fish until oxygen is out)
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ArthurRose

Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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Bryan Zimmerman 15 years ago

There is only so much you can do for some people. If you have HONESTLY tried everything you can think of to help them out and they still won't try to "fish" on their own, then there is nothing you can do. Some are just made up this way.

If you've had others who have succeeded with what you've taught then you know you haven't done anything wrong and just move on. There comes a point in time when it's not worth the hassle. You just have to give someone their money back and tell them nicely that you think they may be better off learning from someone else.
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John Taylor

15 years ago

I much prefer this version..

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.

John

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Kyle Tully

15 years ago

The problem is you're teaching him to fish, but the poor guy just wants a steak!

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Star69

15 years ago

Sometimes you just want to give them the fish...up the side of their stupid head!

Unfortunately there are MANY people out there who won't provide for themselves even when they know how. They'd rather sit around hungry and grumble that there's nothing to eat, even though they are sitting on the tackle box.

I don't mind helping someone once or twice but when they show no interest or initiative, forget it! I've got bigger fish to fry, um, I mean, help.

Here's another one: Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light him on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Quentin

15 years ago

Its absolutely true.

I do a lot of charity work and we are teaching people to build websites, graphics and much more and all of them so far have gone out and got jobs or set up their own small business online.

These are mainly orphans in Thailand.

We could have done it all for them but the thing is the skills they have developed will serve them for a lifetime.

For the people who don't want to learn to fish you just charge them for the fish you catch for them. For those that want steak you charge a little extra.

Quentin

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Blase 15 years ago

Great posts.

I can see some of you have worked with customers.

My business is almost all offline and it's really hard to
get business owners to do what they have to do.

I have learned to write up what I am going to do for them
and what they are going to pay for that.

This also includes what they are going to do and if they have me do it
what the up charge is going to be.

Some of these post are very funny.

John, everything I sell is steak, top grade aged beef.
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Michael Mayhew

15 years ago

Start hooking a different type O' fish (niche).

Just because the ocean's full of fish doesn't mean you have to go chomping down on Carp all the time! ( courtesy of Shallow Hal

Some Niche's just breed hand holder's, especially in this economy.

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Matt Bard

15 years ago

Blase,

I hear you man. But your list should make you happy.

I have to catch the fish! - $15
I have to clean the fish! - $25
I have to cook the fish! - $10
I have to serve them the fish! - $5 + tip
I have to put the fish in their mouth! - $10 + tip
I have to move the jaw up and down to help them eat it! $ 25 ($125 in Nevada)

Cha Ching

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Blase

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Matthew Maiden

Blase,

I hear you man. But your list should make you happy.

I have to catch the fish! - $15
I have to clean the fish! - $25
I have to cook the fish! - $10
I have to serve them the fish! - $5 + tip
I have to put the fish in their mouth! - $10 + tip
I have to move the jaw up and down to help them eat it! $ 25 ($125 in Nevada)

Cha Ching

LOL!

The problem is you are now selling your time
with that model.

I would rather sell them the what to do, instead of
doing it for dollars.

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Jeff Henshaw 15 years ago

I have to serve them the fish!
I have to put the fish in their mouth!
I have to move the jaw up and down to help them eat it!

I'll be sure not to dine at your restaurant - unless you have clean hands

Jeff.
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Aj Wilson 15 years ago

Not to sound too negative, but the "Teach A Man To Fish"
pisses me a little bit...

"Give a man a fish, and he'll survive for a day...
Teach a man to fish and he'll survive a life time".

Now imagine this scenario (It may sound familiar) :

------------------------------------------

STARVING dude rocks up on your front door,
seeing a fridge full of damn fish...

STARVING Dude : "Hey bro, I'm starving here,
can u hook me up with a fish??"

Internet Marketer : "Mate, if I give you a fish, you'll survive
for a day, if I teach you to fish, you can feed yourself for a life time"

STARVING Dude : (Dribbling at the mouth) : "Will ya teach me to fish Mr
Internet Marketer??"

Internet Marketer : "Yea Sure!, Discover The Ultimate Bling Bling
Thing To Catch ALL The Fish You Could Ever Want, With No Website,
No List and NO JV Partners!!! On Complete Autopilot!"

STARVING Dude : "Awwwww..... YES PLEASE MR Internet Marketer!!!
Woo Hooo!! Im gona get all the damn fish in the sea!!"

Internet Marketer : "No problems Mr Starving Dude... Just make 12 easy
payments of $40,000 dollars, order NOW and get a FREE midget axe
to chop the heads off of all the fish you'll be catching tomorrow!"

STARVING Dude : "Yeeeheeee.... IM IN BRO! hook me up!!!"

Internet Marketer : "WAIT! - You're ONLY Going To See This Offer
ONCE! - Upgrade to the Magic Bling Bling Thing PLATINUM VERSION!
For only $1.2 Million Dollars and have the fish jumping into your boat
in 20 seconds after purchasing!"

STARVING Dude : "Damn it... I only got $1.1999 Million dollars"....
[Clicks "No Thanks"]

Internet Marketer : "OK You cant get the Platinum Version coz ure
broke, so here it is without the midget axe, just buy the damn thing
and gimme ure money"

STARVING Dude : "DONE DEAL!"

...

3 weeks later....

...

STARVING Dude : "Hey Mr Internet Marketer.... Bling Bling Thing aint
working... I seen all the damn fish u got,.. I still gots nothing?... Im still
STARVING and I lost about 100 kilos coz I aint eaten in 50 days...
waddup wid dat man??"

Internet Marketer : "No problems Sir, I make more money than I refund,
so here's your money back and keep all the useless crap I just gave you
as an apology from me to you"...

But I heard THIS WORKS! - Just Click Here!! --> [affiliate link]

------------------------------------------

Ok, ok... a bit overboard

I think the next evolution in the ultimate "Guruness" would be to have
your money making system making money for your customers ALREADY,
as soon as they purchase.... then teach them how it works and how to
do it themselves etc...

This can be done using link rotation. The monthly investment they pay
goes into advertising, traffic gen, conversions etc.

Something I've been testing and working on myself.

I mean...

If a starving dude came to my house, hungry as hell, and I had a
fridge full a damn fish...

Id Give The Dude something to eat first

But that's just me... (and my 15 minutes of time killing while I wait
for my girlfriend to get out the damn shower)

P.S.

for the "aware" this little story can make great sales copy...
so you can sell heaps of "How To Stuff" to Starving Dudes LOL :p

P.P.S.

If you can give people results, on the way to their goal,
you're more likely to create MASSIVE desire, a MASS following,
repetitive customers,e tc. etc...

theyre also more likely to take more/further action, after theyre gettting the
desired results in increments. Along with more motivation, trust in you, etc. etc...

just take a look at Frank Kern and his videos.
(Im sure your inbox is getting smashed with all the awesome promo material) ...

Franks a genious at the stuff.

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Tom Dean

15 years ago

I have to catch the fish! - $15
I have to clean the fish! - $25
I have to cook the fish! - $10
I have to serve them the fish! - $5 + tip
I have to put the fish in their mouth! - $10 + tip
I have to move the jaw up and down to help them eat it! $ 25 ($125 in Nevada)

Very Good Point!

"Don't Give Me The Recipe Just Give me The Pie" - Paul Myers (I think)

Some of the best customers are those who just want the pie.

I don't think the saying is garbage at all. However I do understand the frustration of trying to teach someone who has asked/paid to be taught how to fish yet doesn't want to get their hands dirty baiting the hook.

Tom

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Matt Bard

15 years ago

Blase,

"The problem is you are now selling your time with that model".

Yes I understand and it is very frustrating.

Originally Posted by Tom Dean

However I do understand the frustration of trying to teach someone who has asked/paid to be taught how to fish yet doesn't want to get their hands dirty baiting the hook.

The one benefit here is the opportunity to take the time and hold their hand through the process and hope that they become a fan and start spreading positive statements about your service and attention to them.

It's better to have people out there saying good things about you instead of the alternative.

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winebuddy

15 years ago

It's always been something that is difficult for me... motivating someone to actually DO something. I can teach, I can show, heck I've done it for 23 years! But after they go ooooo and ahhhhhh and ok! they go home and watch the soaps and hope the money will come rollin in.

Dumb a$$$e$$

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DrugOfChoice 15 years ago

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a night.

Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life ;-).
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Matt Bard

15 years ago

Aj,

As far as your total package, totally turn-key deal you're still going to get those folks complaining that you didn't come to their house and turn on their computer.

Sometimes you really do learn how to fish for $19.95 but they still don't want to get into the boat.

The frustrating thing is that if someone is afraid of the water maybe they should be buying a book about hunting instead.

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Aj Wilson 15 years ago

Yep sure thing...

I guess, they're probably not the correct target audience or customers
I'd like to have then (Frank Kerns - Bird Finger Report)

my reply was to demo a little scenario, demo ethics, injected with a lil humor, that's all...

well... it put a smile on my face anywayz
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- Frank Donovan 15 years ago
  
  Hey, if your customers want fish, just give them the fish!
  
  YouTube - monty python - fish dance
  
  Frank
  
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Steven Wagenheim 15 years ago

The teach a man to fish vs give him the fish argument will go on until time
itself stops.

Personally, I'm still waiting for a true "fish dinner" where all I have to do is
open my mouth and chew.

Maybe some folks feel it exists. I don't.

Of course that's just my opinion.
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- Matt Bard 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim
  
  The teach a man to fish vs give him the fish argument will go on until time
  itself stops.
  
  Hey Steven,
  
  Maybe this is the secret behind being an affiliate marketer. We get paid to show people where to find the teachers and givers.
  
  Thanks
  
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grumpyb

15 years ago

1/ "teach a man to fish and he will eat for life".

2/"no one ever went broke under estimating the intellect or motivation of the average consumer"

3/ Maybe you should consider that you have in point of fact not taught him how to fish ! If you had he would not still be asking questions

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Rachel Incoll

15 years ago

From my experience a lot of people just don't want to bother learning how to fish...they want the fish handed to them on a silver platter, ready to cook. They don't seem to care that if they learned to fish they could catch a 10 pound fish, instead of accepting the 2 pound one on the platter.

With a lot of aspects of business, in particular IM, people would come up with a far better quality product or business if they took the time to learn to do it themselves instead of looking for the shortcut, ready made option. There are some exceptions to this (like outsourcing some jobs you're not real good at), but in general going for the easy way will result in a poorer quality business.

For example I have 2 products targetted at the same niche - one is the fish on the platter & the other teaches them how to fish. The fish on the platter product far outsells the learning to fish product (which is borderline viable) but I know that people would be much better off in the long run if they learnt how to fish & bought that product...they're just too lazy!

Cheers

Rachel

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TheMagicShow

15 years ago

As a marketer, it is best to learn how to catch a fish. Because those skills can bring in a lifetime of income.

Now, on the other hand a customer wants the fish right then and there. Customers (most) who want to make money want the (magic money button) right away, they just want the fish.

I am a marketer and knowing how to catch the fish, and having a crafted, set of skills is much better than being given a fish...

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" You can either give a man a fish and feed him for a day OR teach him how to catch a fish and it will feed him for a lifetime"

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Teenage Genius

15 years ago

Teach a man to fish and he will never go hungry. Unless ofcourse he has no interest in fishing. A lot of people hate it. We live in a very diverse world.

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roots

15 years ago

You can teach a man to fish but he must take action. And most people don't take action

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Mangozoom

15 years ago

The illustration is about empowerment ... the alternative being that you just give them a fish, they eat it and are no better off.

So in that sense it's a good illustration

John

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lukesimon

15 years ago

I tend to agree with absolutelee to a certain extent. A lot of folks are wrapped up in exactly what they want done and care little about either knowing how it's done or being able to do so themselves. But, at the same time, it's difficult to fully appreciate all the pressures and priorities their particular job comes along with, so it may be beneficial to consider cutting some slack, depending on the specific scenario.
Besides that, if your customers are completely dependent on you for what you consider simple items, then imagine their horror whenever they imagine having to do anything without you. Can you say "job security?"

LS

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Teach A Man To Fish Is Garbage Agree vs. Disagree

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