A new low is reached in email subject lines

[Dexx]

I received that email and was concerned as well mostly because I had been receiving daily emails from the person who was the subject of the email in regards to another website training he was doing which he hadn't updated in like 4 days!

Only thing that kept me subscribed is because NORMALLY their emails are much better then that.

But I agree I was NOT impressed

[Diana Lane]

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

Reminds me of the title of the Ken Kesey novel "Sometimes A Great Notion"

According to Wikipedia Kesey took the title from the song “Goodnight, Irene”, popularized by Lead Belly.
Sometimes I live in the country
Sometimes I live in the town
Sometimes I get a great notion
To jump into the river an’ drown

Martin

That cheery(!) little tune is the anthem of the football team I fanatically support, and is sung to within an inch of it's life at every game. How cool to see it on here

If I'm on the list in question, I didn't notice - it takes a LOT to attract my attention. He probably wouldn't have been spotted had he claimed that he himself had been hospitalized and was posting under anaesthesia. However, inboxes are so full of outrageous subject lines (mine is, at least) that it seems the ones with a sensible point summarized briefly are the ones that stand out now.

Whether the subject line is in poor taste or not (and this one was), if it bears no relation to what's inside then the only useful thing within is the unsubscribe link.

Further, the sender will probably never get a second chance to redeem himself. When somebody gets in my bad books, I have a habit of remembering it but forgetting why I put them there, so they stay on the mental black-list forever. It's not something I like about myself, but I suspect I'm not the only one that does this. This marketer's mis-judgement could be difficult to bounce back from.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Just an FYI...while no names have been mentioned in this thread, from a
couple of the posts made here, I was able to figure out who this person is.

And if clueless me can do it, anybody can.

Point is, let's be careful about what we say.

There is the "technical" part of rule 1 of this forum and then there is the
spirit of the rule, which to me, appears to have been broken.

I am in no way condoning what this person did by sending out that email (I
would have unsubbed myself) but I do feel the spirit of the rule has been
slightly violated in this thread.

Just my opinion for what it's worth.

[Melody]

Unsubbed here as well - it was truly a new low!! I also had several in the reersonal genre this am for some reason - they also went into the trash after unsubbing.

More IMers should take a cue from Agora's various newsletters - they always have some interesting 'tidbit' in the subject line that makes you want to read the rest of the newsletter - and they actually have information in 99% of the emails they send you.

LOL - I have years of them now.......

Melody

[Craig McPherson]

Don't ya hate it when we cannot name 'n' shame lol

[Paul Myers]

Mr Wagenheim,

This is not a Rule #1 case.

First, it's going to be very difficult for most people who aren't on the guy's list to figure out who we're talking about. The number of people who fit the general circumstances is pretty high.

Anyone who IS on the guy's list can judge for themselves whether they think it's a big deal or not. Anyone who's not is looking at it as a discussion of tactics, not a personal slam.

There's no allegation here. It's pure fact, and it's presented to warn people not to make the same mistake themselves.


Paul

[MichaelBSoftware]

I agree with everyone else....I think I've unsubscribed from at least 10 well known marketer's lists in the last week or so, just because of this crap.
Blatantly commercial spamming is all it boils down too....cross promoting each other's junk. Nothing of value included in their emails except their affiliate links.....die guru die....I was keeping them for a swipe file, but who wants to copy or use as a reference something so offensive...not I.

Anyway, my email box is looking much better for it, some of these clowns were emailing 2 and 3 times a day pumping the same product (only 3 left, going fast, get it now, gone soon, etc.)..morons.

[IMChick]

My personal preference notwithstanding, to make something like this into a public service announcement and actually list the offending marketer's name --

I strongly disagree that we're violating some made-up variant of "Rule #1" that somehow implies that contributors of the thread have to be careful of the Rule's violation. Nonsense.

It's a fact that ?? did send an email with this subject line. This thread discusses the actual technique of the post itself, and does not identify the sender, their geographic location, the people he hangs with, his last product launch by name or any identifying information.

If you 'figured it out' then good for you. That's got nothing to do with the spirit of the rule or skirting around technicalities.

No doubt, the sender of the email with the offensive subject line has already seen this thread. If he wishes to pop into the discussion and identify himself, that's a different story. (Oops, I said "he").

[Paul Myers]

Im curious how can you empathize with him? he wouldnt have got a sinking feeling in his stomach if he wasnt so stupid. he doesnt deserve a second chance and he wont become a "better person" either.

Comments like this are among the reasons we don't name names in threads like this.

Pray that when you do something stupid, and you will, that your customers aren't like you.


Paul

[Gene Pimentel]

Originally Posted by Scott Anderson

well who is it then??

Scott, please read the rules of the forum. Then you'll know enough not to ask.

[Gene Pimentel]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

Don't count on it.

Tina G

No kidding. But it looks like his posts are disappearing.

[Mike Williams]

Unsubbed and replied with a string of profanity that would make an angry sailor with turrets syndrome blush.

Now he can write the greatly anticipated: "How to Lose 4,879 Subscribers IN 24 HOURS OR LESS!"

If I'm him. I change my name and start over.

[Paul Myers]

Gene,

Scott, please read the rules of the forum. Then you'll know enough not to ask.

When someone is that persistent, and starts with a thread asking how to hack one of the largest dating sites on the net, the odds are good they know the rules and are violating them deliberately. He's a troll.


Paul

[vladinati]

I GOT the same email yesterday trashed and unsubscribed i dont under stand people some times stuff like that isnt funny but im not going to lie i seen hospital and clicked immediately i didnt even look at the name. stupid marketing trick.

[Gene Pimentel]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Gene,When someone is that persistent, and starts with a thread asking how to hack one of the largest dating sites on the net, the odds are good they know the rules and are violating them deliberately. He's a troll.

Paul

Agreed. I tend to give people too much leeway.

[mhobbs25]

Well These Guru's know that lots of people are going to unsubscribe and be mad but they are also going to get 2 or 3 times the normal open rate which puts more money in their pocket. So I don't think they care about the unsubscribes as much as you think they do. All they care about is the sales and open rate they get, so they can have some proof to show at their next big Seminar saying they got 75% open rate, and earned x-millions from 1 email... (think about it, we all open these emails - so it works) Its all a numbers game to them...

I too don't like these emails and would never use them myself. Just wanted to point out why they do it (it makes them lots of money or they wouldn't bother doing it).

Have a great day!

[Paul Myers]

Tina,

The sad thing is that he most likely will...and he'll be the same pathetic human being.

If you're referring to the troll, you're almost certainly right.

If you're referring to the guy who sent the email under discussion, you're leaping to very tall conclusions in a single bound. He's one of the better people I know. REALLY bad move with the email, no question. But as a human being? No.


Paul

[Paul Myers]

Gene,

Agreed. I tend to give people too much leeway.

Somebody's not. Looks like he managed to get deleted already.


Paul

[Robert Puddy]

Originally Posted by ArthurRose

"Nearly all gone... trust me there nearly all gone"

Whats wrong with that headline Arthur ?

[IMChick]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Gene,Somebody's not. Looks like he managed to get deleted already.


Paul

Good job. And I didn't report that one because I didn't see it. Just wondering if there's a master list of how many posts were reported by WF Username?

[Paul Myers]

Just wondering if there's a master list of how many posts were reported by WF Username?

I doubt it. I haven't set up a vBulletin site yet, but I can't see where there'd be much use for it. Even if there was, Allen's made it pretty clear that anyone who discussed anything about who reported what would be asking for trouble.


Paul

[Shannon Herod]

Got it and unsubscribed immediately! ridiculous if you ask me. I do not unsubscribe from lists either. I cant tell you the last time I did that.

Shannon

[Loren Woirhaye]

I did get the email and I opened it, read a couple lines...
saw it was B.S. and deleted it or something.

I didn't think any more of it until I looked at this
thread.

Corey Rudl was killed in a car crash a few years back.
I wasn't in the IM community enough at the time to
be aware of the shockwave really - but I know from
reading about that nobody likes to see a young person
so full of promise die young.

Manipulating that emotion is an unwise decision for this
marketer - a forgivable mistake, but not a smart thing
to do.

Somebody, maybe Claude Hopkins, wrote:

"There are two things about which men should never
joke, one is money, the other is family."

Somebody tells you somebody in their "family" - even
a friend or a business associate, is in the hospital
or near death - well.... you better not be joking. You'll
find a rare person that sees the humor in your joke.

[jasondinner]

WTF!!!!

I thought I was on everybody's list, but for some reason I didn't get
this notorious email.

Now I'm just oozing with curiosity as to who everyone is talking about.

It is pretty dumb though to use something that serious just to get
people to open your email.

I mean, I just got surgery, so I tied that into a few of my recent messages
to my list.

But didn't do it just for the opens.

Just felt like telling my subscribers about my surgery while I was prmoting
whatever I was promoting.

But this is killing me - somebody who I'm friends with in this thread who
knows who it is, please PM me - LOL

Thanks,
Jason

[chris_surfrider]

That was retarded.

Bad move.

Not only was it, as we've discussed here in the thread, a great way to ruin your reputation, etc...

...It's also a MISLEADING subject line.

Which is illegal according to the can-spam act.

What the hell were these guys thinking?

It doesn't matter what your "open rate" is or whatever. That's hand-to-mouth thinking. You can't go from one big promo to the next in this business and try to survive off of hype.

You need to build TRUST.

This guy is smarter than that, though.

It's a stupid mistake made by an otherwise straight-up guy.

Crazy.

A good reminder not to do this kind of crap, though.

-Chris

[susanm]

I got it and unsubscribed too. I wonder if anyone will be left on his list by the end of the day.

Susan

[Jason Moffatt]

Crap, I'm not on any lists either.

I'd love to see the email.

Cmon, somebody PM a homeboy!

[David Raybould]

Hey guys,

I got that email to, and I was pretty disappointed.

I sent the guy an email explaining why I was unsubscribing, and I told him he'd probably get a few more before the day's out.

I mean, there are spammers that have a better grasp of marketing...pretty hard to have faith in this guy and act on his recommendations when he's proving that he uses questionable tactics...

Shame though, liked his product and he otherwise seems like a decent guy.

David

[vicone]

I got the email, read a few lines, and unsubscribed. It was a cheap and nasty trick to use that subject heading. The irony is that the person concerned had built a reputation for his ability to attract subscribers! In one stupid moment he's trashed his reputation.

Ivan

[Darth Executor]

I feel the need to comment on this topic, because I see two trends that annoy me:

First, I don't understand why people make these pathetic attempts to get their e-mail open. If your subscriber cares about what you have to say, it's probably because they already respect your opinion and will open your e-mails no matter what the subject line is.

If they don't care, a stupid subject line won't help. It's a much better long term solution to become trustworthy and have people open your email because it's from you than to trick people into opening it with some outrageous subject line. If you have to do the latter, chances are your relationship with your list needs improvement.

That said, I see a bunch of comments along the line of "I liked this guy and his stuff but I'm unsubscribing bla bla bla". Why? If his newsletter provides useful information, why kneecap yourself? Shoot him off an email to let him know he's an idiot and carry on. Especially if this is a one-time deal. People make mistakes sometimes.

[Jason Moffatt]

Ah man. Somebody sent me the email. Thx.

Yeah, bad move on the email. I'm sure he'd take it back if he could after the feedback.

For the record, not only is he a good guy, but he's a great guy. Looks like even the good guys make an error now and then.

I can understand why some would unsubscribe.

I can also understand why many would give him another shot and chalk it up as a bad call.

He really is a good guy. Too bad about the email.

[Paul Myers]

This is why we don't name names in threads like this...

I just got a note from the guy who sent that email. Seems it was supposed to go to a small group of customers who know him and get his sense of humor. Specifically, people who had already bought the product. It was apparently directly related to what they'd paid for.

Instead, it went out to the wrong list. A MUCH larger group, for whom it made no sense. (I've made that mistake myself.)

Doesn't make the use of the subject line any less tacky (in my opinion), but it explains the intent. It wasn't a trick to sell the product.


Paul

[IMChick]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

This is why we don't name names in threads like this...

I just got a note from the guy who sent that email. Seems it was supposed to go to a small group of customers who know him and get his sense of humor. Specifically, people who had already bought the product. It was apparently directly related to what they'd paid for.

Instead, it went out to the wrong list. A MUCH larger group, for whom it made no sense. (I've made that mistake myself.)

Doesn't make the use of the subject line any less tacky (in my opinion), but it explains the intent. It wasn't a trick to sell the product.


Paul

That's awful. Bet he's having a bad day. It's still in poor taste.

Paraphrasing Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., here, it's still not really ok to be shouting "fire" in a crowded theater.

[Paul Myers]

It's still in poor taste.

I agree completely. I used the phrase "unbelievably tacky" 3 times in my response to him.

There's a difference, though, between a joke in poor taste and a lie to get money from people.


Paul

[Anthony Lex]

Just saw this thread and decided to see if I got that email too, I did but I also got this email from the same guy a few minutes ago as well.


This is just a quick note about that "hospital" email you
received late last night.

Boy am I embarrassed.

That email was *not* intended for you.

I know many of you were confused by it.

That email didn't make much sense, did it?

That's because the email was *only* intended for members
of my membership site _____________________

______________ members know me very well and know that
______________ and I often joke around, make personal
digs at each other, etc.

It's just good clean fun. Nothing more.

Anyway, that's what happened... I do apologize.

There was no clever marketing ulterior motive or subject
line trickery behind this I can assure you (even though some
of you might still be skeptical).

If you re-read the email, it's clear to see that it was
written to ______________ members, not you.

What else can I say. Mistakes happen. This is one of them.

Once again, I really apologize for this.

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

This is why we don't name names in threads like this...

I just got a note from the guy who sent that email. Seems it was supposed to go to a small group of customers who know him and get his sense of humor. Specifically, people who had already bought the product. It was apparently directly related to what they'd paid for.

Instead, it went out to the wrong list. A MUCH larger group, for whom it made no sense. (I've made that mistake myself.)

Doesn't make the use of the subject line any less tacky (in my opinion), but it explains the intent. It wasn't a trick to sell the product.


Paul

D'oh!

Glad I was having a change of heart as the day progressed.

I'm curious as to how many people unsubscribed as a result of that mistake? Not that it really matters, but just curious.

I used to detest emails that said "Oops! I forgot to send you the link", until I did it a few times myself. One thing I'm good at doing is forgetting to attach the various keyword, additional keyword, and LSI lists to PHL members.

No worries though, someone always lets me know.

I say enough drama on this subject, and hope it really was an honest mistake. Because, even though I've had to send the "Oops!" emails from time to time, there are marketers who just use it as a strategy/excuse to send more emails. In other words, I hope (and will assume) this was an honest mistake on his part.

All the best,
Michael

[Alan Petersen]

I'm sure he regrets it but the cynic in me says the list segmentation error is probably BS. But only he knows the truth. I'm not on this persons list and I have no clue who it is just that from the original email he sent it looks the follow up seems a bit far-fetched. I would have just apologized without making excuses. Since many folks here have vouched for him perhaps it's on the up and up but I still think an excuse-free apology would have been better. Because no matter which list you were sending it to it was offensive and tacky.

[teamincome]

I think it is a sad state of affairs when nobody seems to be prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. Like J Mo I actually know him and there is no way on earth the email was sent intentionally.

I was about to post the second email but Anthony beat me to it. The sad thing is i know what is coming next........... he's just trying to weasel out of it etc etc

I know I don't post here very often and so have no "clout" so to speak but I have spoken to him and it was a mistake. Yes a REALLY bad one but a mistake all the same. Who hasn't made a mistake, lets face it.

Now if you choose to believe this was some attempted marketing ploy then that is obviously your choice and I can't say I blame you and nor would he, he knows that. But at the same time why not for once give a fellow marketer the benefit of the doubt? Has anyone ever seen him use a tactic like this before? The answer is no, he is not "THAT" kind of marketer.

I mean we are all marketers here and lets face it as far as the general public is concerned we probably rank just above traffic wardens and lawyers in the popularity stakes so why are we trashing one of our own.

Anyone that knows him, or even has done business with him will know that he is not the type of marketer to try a stunt like this intentionally.

[vicone]

I got this followup email also:

It's just good clean fun. Nothing more.

Anyway, that's what happened... I do apologize.

His idea of good, clean fun differs from mine.

Ivan

[Doug English]

Originally Posted by Alan Petersen

I'm sure he regrets it but the cynic in me says the list segmentation error is probably BS. But only he knows the truth. I'm not on this persons list and I have no clue who it is just that from the original email he sent it looks the follow up seems a bit far-fetched. I would have just apologized without making excuses. Since many folks here have vouched for him perhaps it's on the up and up but I still think an excuse-free apology would have been better. Because no matter which list you were sending it to it was offensive and tacky.

Couldn't agree more.

I really hope this thread doesn't do the 180 like it seems to be heading towards.
Once again, 'brown nose networking' seems to show its true power.

[Michael Oksa]

I don't get the sense of humor, but if that's what it is, why didn't the body of the e-mail go on to explain the supposed cause of [NAME] being in the hospital?

I mean, continue the "joke" for a sentence or two, THEN follow up with the lying part.

Maybe even add "[NAME] is going to put ME in the hospital if he reads this e-mail!"

Nobody seems to be arguing that it was smart move.

Okay, so what I mean is, even if it's a warped sense of humor, I can't spot any sense of a punchline in the original message.

Just sayin' is all.

[Paul Myers]

Doug,

Once again, 'brown nose networking' seems to show its true power.

In the words of the infamous Lobo, "Bite me, fanboy." I don't kiss anyone's butt, friend or otherwise.

Recognizing that a person can be good, and still do something tacky and unwise, is hardly "brown nosing." Most people figure that out by the time they hit 17 or so, and make an embarrassing mistake of their own.

Hearing both sides of a story is generally something folks learn around that time, too.

Michael,

If you knew him, you'd know the tone that goes with the line. When I read that it was a joke, I believed it, based on the way a lot of us used to razz each other on conference calls and teleseminars. No-one ever needed to explain the jokes.

It was worse in person, but you can do that when there's no audience.


Paul

[Alan Petersen]

Originally Posted by Doug English

Couldn't agree more.

I really hope this thread doesn't do the 180 like it seems to be heading towards.
Once again, 'brown nose networking' seems to show its true power.

You just made this thread do the 180 with that snide comment.

[Kim Standerline]

What a very unpleasant comment

Originally Posted by Doug English

Couldn't agree more.

I really hope this thread doesn't do the 180 like it seems to be heading towards.
Once again, 'brown nose networking' seems to show its true power.

I've discovered who sent this and to say I'm surprised is putting it mildly. Very nice chap and I'm sure this was a miscalculation on his part.

Surprised I didn't get it tho because I'm on his list
Kim

[Doug English]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Doug,In the words of the infamous Lobo, "Bite me, fanboy." I don't kiss anyone's butt, friend or otherwise.

Recognizing that a person can be good, and still do something tacky and unwise, is hardly "brown nosing." Most people figure that out by the time they hit 17 or so, and make an embarrassing mistake of their own.

Hearing both sides of a story is generally something folks learn around that time, too.

Point well understood, but if you read the original email from the OP, the misleading subject line was not a mistake...it was an admitted attempt at getting people to open the email. Whether or not it was a 'segmentation' mistake or not, it wasn't in good taste.

I'd personally find it more offensive from a 'friend' of mine to send me an email like this rather than just some opt-in list.

You called him out on this quickly and I respect that, but it just seemed like this thread was/is going towards "it was no big deal, it was meant for personal friends".

Thats worse than a mass email w/ the same subject line imho. Maybe I don't have the same sense of humor.

[jasondinner]

Screw THIS!!!

Let's throw stones at him.

Then burn him at the stake, but not enough to kill him.

Then we can hang him from the cross.

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRHHHHH!!!!!!!!!


ARGGGHHHHHHH!!!!

[Dan Klatt]

I didn't see the e-mail, until I searched for "hospital" and found it, along with the "apology".

The original letter says basically "I had to get your attention somehow" (I had to lie to you to get you to open).

The followup, though, to me contradicts that, saying it was meant as a joke, with no ulterior motive (such as scaring people into opening the e-mail, as he first said).

I know him personally, too, and agree he is an upstanding person. It's been a few years since we've talked, though.

It wasn't until I saw the reply that I felt lied to.

[kmg]

Got the email. Unsubscribed immediately.

With bushfires still burning here in Victoria, more than 180 lives lost, many still missing, numerous casualties with severe burns, entire towns completely demolished, and several thousand people across the state who have lost literally everything, it was difficult to see any humor in such an inappropriate, offensive and manipulative message.

While I'm willing to concede that the individual who sent this email may not be aware of any that, the fact is with every email we send we make a choice between being either the welcome visitor or the unwelcome intruder.

The real lesson for all of us is we never know what is actually happening in the lives of those on our lists. It's easy enough to upset a reader, without deliberately going out of our way to try to do it.

(And if you want to make a donation to the Bushfire relief fund, the Australian Red Cross is accepting donations online )

[Paul Myers]

Doug,

Point well understood, but if you read the original email from the OP, the misleading subject line was not a mistake...it was an admitted attempt at getting people to open the email. Whether or not it was a 'segmentation' mistake or not, it wasn't in good taste.

Like I said: Bite me, fanboy.

I read it. I was sent multiple copies of said email by subscribers. The reason: I had written a newsletter issue on the subject of repetitive and deceptive subject lines in emails the day before. In that issue, I remarked that one problem was that the majority of these were sent, not by sleazeballs, but by legitimate and respected people, who provided good products. When I wrote that, I was not talking about personal friends, and I still gave them that much benefit of the doubt. And I didn't "name names."

If you think I should not extend the same courtesy to my friends as I do to strangers, that's a problem. But it's not my problem.

If you doubt my summary of the piece, see the link in my sig. (Nothing there for sale.) It's a blog post of that article.

As I understand it, the people who got that email had already purchased the product in question. I agree with you on the matter of taste. However, as I've said previously, there is a large difference between a bad joke and a deliberate lie in an attempt to sell something.


Paul

[Rachael]

I got that too this morning. Very bad taste. Immediately unsubscribed.