WSO Sellers... The Most Important Email You Will Read?

by WillR
98 replies
Today I received an interesting email from one of my subscribers. Before you get the wrong impression, no, he was not sending this email directed towards me. He actually just wanted to show me the exact email he had sent out to the 30+ other vendors to whom which he is subscribed and receives regular emails from.

(I use the word 'subscribe' very lightly there. Often you will end up receiving these product emails when just purchasing a product... without willingly OR knowingly subscribing to anything.)

I had a quick read through his email, loved it, and asked if he wouldn't mind if I shared it (anonymously of course) on the Warrior Forum for others to read. I think it could be quite beneficial to all vendors; both those in the WSO forum and those who sell elsewhere.

From the overwhelming response I received to a blog post of mine the other day, I think this one email sums up the feelings of many, if not the majority of, WSO buyers. Keep in mind this is NOT an email written by me, a WSO vendor, this is from one of the guys who are actually out there buying your products as we speak.


Hey (name),

A lot of what you send me is good stuff and I'd like to keep receiving it.

But there's a problem, and it's getting worse And I'll bet a huge portion of your list feels the same way ...

My in-box is BOMBED every day with affiliate offers. Everyone who's ever supplied me with a report or a product... you included... seems to believe that entitles them to use my email in-box as a never-ending, free income stream. It's like the more times they can stick every conceivable internet marketing product known to mankind under my nose... often several times!.... the more chance they'll have of raiding my bank account!

Now I know "the money's in the list". But this "tactic" is ugly and so obviously more about YOUR affiliate commissions than it is about MY needs and interests! Daily emails from some people (not necessarily you)... and sometimes multiple in the same day... shows absolutely no respect for my intelligence or my time.

So let me tell you what happens...

I don't usually "UNSUBSCRIBE" because I'm very interested in I.M. Plus I'm a BUYER and I know that in amongst the crap, there are some diamonds and some information or updates on the product I bought from you..

But when my IN-box starts looking like a JUNK box, I just have to delete the lot. I can't read them all and I just don't have the time or inclination to filter out the crap,

HERE'S A SOLUTION...

YOU filter the crap and send me one email per week (max!) of the BEST material you've found. I'll look forward to receiving that email, and because I'll know you're not wasting my time, I'll read it.
YOU'LL know that if it's genuinely good.... and that I've read it... there's a damn good chance I'll buy through your link.

Obviously, emails about products I've bought are always welcome. But they seem to be VERY rare.

So, bottom line, I'm suggesting that you... and every other supplier who has my email address and sends MORE than one email per week.... have two choices....

1. Send me one special email per week of the best material you've found. That will save ME time and get YOU sales.

2. Keep sending the current volume of unfiltered emails. I'll keep deleting them (because I don't have the time to find the gems) and eventually I'll just get the ****s with it all and unsubscribe.

I understand that you've worked hard to build up your list. And I have no problem with you using it to make money.

But the moment I feel that MY time and interests are overwhelmed by YOUR need to make affiliate sales...

... I'm outta here.

Hope that's useful! Respond if you'd like to, but the only response I REALLY want is less affiliate emails. If you can do that, I'll keep listening and buying from you.

Rgds
What do you think? Couldn't have said it better myself.
#email #important #read #sellers #wso
  • Profile picture of the author Pjkem15
    Great Post
    It's so important to remember that although your list may seem like just a number, it is not. It is a community of real, intelligent people who have come to you with a need that you are able to fulfill. These people are not looking to receive 8 emails a week. Like this guy said he only wants one!

    A daily email is the last thing a customer wants. For example, I am soon approaching college, and i kid you not, i receive approximately 8 emails a day from colleges. I.Delete.Every.Single.Letter.

    Not only is it disrespectful, but it's annoying. The bottom line is that you must remember your list are people. Good people. And in order to make a living, you must form a good relationship with these people. In order to do that, you need to take the time to give them valuable information and offers they need and want.

    Thats how the money comes in.

    Pete
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  • Profile picture of the author Genycis
    It's funny because I just unsubscribed from an email I kept getting twice from a Mark Thompson every day just about now since i had bought IM Tutor some months ago. I think today it finally irritated me that I was getting an email twice every day.

    And I'm getting some others too every other day it seems with products as well that I already got from other marketers... guess that's what happens when you buy a WSO. And every email regarding every product is "The answer to..." the same question that the last email was the answer to and so on.

    I understand the marketing and need to promote as it is the way to make money, but really, that many emails every single day? Lol! I have to laugh so I don't go insane and drown in a sea of promotional warrior forum emails about the next great product that, mind you, the email comes today for example, yet the product was started up several days ago so I don't even get the best rate at least if I DID debate on buying the WSO. Hmmm...
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    • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi,

        Hey, it's one of those threads that comes around roughly once a fortnight...

        I think we all have things that we *like less* and *like more* about other peoples' marketing tactics, when we're on the receiving end of their pitch and those things may differ greatly from person to person.

        For example, some people hate hype. Some would say that even the suggestion that one subscriber's gripes about the state of his inbox, coupled with his emailed suggestions to those email marketers about how they should proceed in order to satisfy that *one person* could be 'the most important email you will read' as a WSO seller - qualifies as outrageous hype.

        What I take from these perennial threads is that if you're going to sell, you might as well do it well and that doing it well usually involves an element of 'pushing the envelope' and risking upsetting prospects, rather than pandering to their whims. But it's worth noting that 'pushing the envelope' doesn't necessarily involve emailing them more regularly than the average.

        It's also clear to me that what a lot of people don't seem to have the courage for is consistent, brutal honesty. But it's often easier to upset people with this than it is with dishonesty or with hard marketing, so I understand their fear to an extent.

        But it's also worth mentioning that I don't consider consistent, brutal honesty to be exactly the same thing as 'building trust.' In some areas there's almost no point trying to build trust as the market is too fast-paced, but regardless, consistent, brutal honesty can make a positive difference in my opinion.

        It might be worth also mentioning that I think I've just broken the world record for 'I've signed up, why isn't he mailing me? Is it broken?'

        'If you have nothing worthwhile to mail yet, mail nothing.' Deliberate misquote from Mark Twain.

        Hi Shaun,

        If you listen to Dan Kennedy, he'll tell you that the ONLY
        people you should listen to are customers who send you
        money.

        In fact, he even advises that you ignore everyone else.
        Requoted, because it's thought-provoking and provocative.
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        Roger Davis

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        • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
          Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

          If you listen to Dan Kennedy, he'll tell you that the ONLY
          people you should listen to are customers who send you
          money.

          In fact, he even advises that you ignore everyone else.

          Requoted, because it's thought-provoking and provocative.
          I didn't catch that in the post, but that's exactly how I look at it.

          Some other quotes come to mind... Can't remember who said them...

          "People vote with their wallets." (not opinions)

          "Buyers are liars." (for example, they say they buy from short copy but buy from long)
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    Originally Posted by WillR View Post

    (I use the word 'subscribe' very lightly there. Often you will end up receiving these product emails when just purchasing a product... without willingly OR knowingly subscribing to anything.).
    Over time people learn not to bother subscribing to just about anything here, especially to the unknowns as the barrage of crap swapped out emails that follows is just short of stupid gone wrong.

    So in effect people are just shooting themselves in the foot, when the poop hits the fan and everyone has had enough I guess there will be a big rant about not doing this and looking after your clients.

    A privacy policy that says we will not share your email will be a good start to which email lists to subscribe to.
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      Over time people learn not to bother subscribing to just about anything here, especially to the unknowns as the barrage of crap swapped out emails that follows is just short of stupid gone wrong.

      So in effect people are just shooting themselves in the foot, when the poop hits the fan and everyone has had enough I guess there will be a big rant about not doing this and looking after your clients.

      A privacy policy that says we will not share your email will be a good start to which email lists to subscribe to.
      Pete,

      The problem is even a lot of those sellers who have Privacy Policies listed on their website still have no regard for your email address - a lot of them have those legal documents just because they have been told to have those legal documents.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andrew Skelly
        Your subscriber offered a great solution and in fact some IM'ers already do this once a week "best of the week finds" One name that comes to mind is Marlon Sanders. But here's a question for you despite the fact that this sounds like a good idea, WILL IT CONVERT BETTER? Some offers are time sensitive and the once a week thing just won't work with this method. If anyone has actually tested this out I would love to hear what the results of their test was.
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        • Profile picture of the author WillR
          Originally Posted by Andrew Skelly View Post

          Your subscriber offered a great solution and in fact some IM'ers already do this once a week "best of the week finds" One name that comes to mind is Marlon Sanders. But here's a question for you despite the fact that this sounds like a good idea, WILL IT CONVERT BETTER? Some offers are time sensitive and the once a week thing just won't work with this method. If anyone has actually tested this out I would love to hear what the results of their test was.
          I was actually waiting for someone to ask that question. What you will find is most of the guys running these time sensitive hyped up launches are the same guys emailing you 4-5 times a week, so they are not about to change. They rely on hype to sell - no doubt about it.

          If a product is good then I have never understood why it can only be sold for two days or one week. It makes no logical sense to me. It's all just lazy marketing designed to pull in a whole barrage of sales in a short period of time. If these marketers were truly concerned about helping you would they really stick a ridiculous time limit or dime-sale pricing on the offer? Would they then squeeze you through five upsell offers designed to milk every last bit of money out of you? Short answer: No.

          Those marketers are the type who will never change their ways and they are the ones you are best off just unsubscribing from.
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  • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
    Thanks Will,

    I love the way your subscriber gave you a solution as how to mail him. Now that's proactive and constructive help.

    Di
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    Why not try it out and come back here and tell us how it goes?

    My prediction is you'll make probably around 10% or less the income you currently make.

    But if you prove me wrong then hell, I'd love to send one email a week.

    Over the years the only trend I see is that the more frequently you mail, the more money you make.

    I've never seen the opposite happen.

    Maybe it's because I'm almost solely an affiliate.

    If you're a product creator then I can possibly see that working. MAYBE
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

      Why not try it out and come back here and tell us how it goes?

      My prediction is you'll make probably around 10% or less the income you currently make.

      But if you prove me wrong then hell, I'd love to send one email a week.

      Over the years the only trend I see is that the more frequently you mail, the more money you make.

      I've never seen the opposite happen.

      Maybe it's because I'm almost solely an affiliate.

      If you're a product creator then I can possibly see that working. MAYBE
      It depends what type of business you are trying to build Jason. A quick cash grab or a long-term business where repeat customers account for a large chunk of your sales. I know which one I would rather have.

      The problem with the 'mail as much as you can' type of attitude is that you (proverbial you) are forever having to build your list because your list churn rate is so much higher and without continually building your list your income would eventually drop off - so your list is not really an asset.

      It's not ALL about money. That's the difference I guess. If you are just in it for the money then great. I'm not. I'm here to help people along the way... and as my subscriber pointed out in his email it becomes very clear to people very quickly whether you care about the money or them, the people on your list.

      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

      Over the years the only trend I see is that the more frequently you mail, the more money you make.
      What do you think creates this pattern though? The only reason you need to mail out so much is because there are so many people malling out so often that it gets harder and harder to cut through the noise. But there's one thing for certain. If people actually look forward to your emails they are much more likely to get opened than the other handful of guys who are emailing you every day of the week.
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      • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

        The problem with the 'mail as much as you can' type of attitude is that you (proverbial you) are forever having to build your list because your list churn rate is so much higher and without continually building your list your income would eventually drop off - so your list is not really an asset.
        First of all, I'm not saying mail as much as you can. I'm saying all tests show that increasing the frequency of your mailing increases your income. FACT

        Secondly, I may "have to build my list as a much higher rate" but I don't have to crank out products AT ALL, I don't need JV partners AT ALL, I don't need to go to a forum and build my reputation AT ALL...

        What does that leave? Running ads to build my list and sending e-mails.

        The actual marketing and selling in my business takes about 1 hour per day if there are no technical problems.

        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

        It's not ALL about money. That's the difference I guess. If you are just in it for the money then great. I'm not. I'm here to help people along the way... and as my subscriber pointed out in his email it becomes very clear to people very quickly whether you care about the money or them, the people on your list.
        No one said it's all about the money.

        I take pride in promoting good products that people want.

        Getting the products they want make them happy.

        Plus as an affiliate in the internet marketing niche I've shown possibly 10s of thousands of people the Warrior Forum.

        What have YOU done that's so great for other people?
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        • Profile picture of the author WillR
          Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

          Secondly, I may "have to build my list as a much higher rate" but I don't have to crank out products AT ALL, I don't need JV partners AT ALL, I don't need to go to a forum and build my reputation AT ALL...
          That's great but can you answer me this question. If Paypal and the Warrior Forum disappeared tomorrow, what would you be left with? It's great that you don't have to do any of that stuff but what that also means is you are building NO assets along the way.

          Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

          No one said it's all about the money.
          I'm confused by this because above you actually did say you mail more often because it makes you more money. So doesn't that mean it is a lot about the money? Maybe not 'all' about the money, I apologize for using that word but money must have a lot to do with it.

          Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

          I take pride in promoting good products that people want.

          Getting the products they want make them happy.
          Jason. I never said you don't take pride in the products you promote. I said that I don't agree it's all about the money after you had made a comment saying you mail more often because it makes you more money. I said I don't agree with that type of attitude. We can agree to disagree.

          Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

          What have YOU done that's so great for other people?
          I never said I have done anything that's SO great and I'm not even sure where that question is coming from. Besides, in this business, it's not always what you DO quite often it's what you DON'T do that separates you from others.
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          • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
            Originally Posted by WillR View Post

            That's great but can you answer me this question. If Paypal and the Warrior Forum disappeared tomorrow, what would you be left with?
            The basics of marketing work everywhere.

            Fundamentally you need:

            1) Leads
            2) Offers that Convert

            The Warrior Forum isn't the only place where there are offers that convert.

            Not to mention I can create products and write pretty darn good copy if I can't find anything good I want to promote.

            Originally Posted by WillR View Post

            I'm confused by this because above you actually did say you mail more often because it makes you more money. So doesn't that mean it is all about the money?
            I never said it's all about the money, but I'm not opposed to making the most money I can. Why would anyone choose to make less money?

            Originally Posted by WillR View Post

            I never said I have done anything that's SO great and I'm not even sure where that question is coming from. It's not always what you do, quite often it's what you DON'T do that separates you from others.
            You said this, "I'm here to help people along the way... and as my subscriber pointed out in his email it becomes very clear to people very quickly whether you care about the money or them, the people on your list."

            So I want to know what you have done to "help people along the way."

            Because I've sent possibly 10s of thousands of newbies to this forum so they can have the opportunity to buy a good product and also join the forum and learn marketing the same way I have.

            How are YOU helping people along the way?
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  • Profile picture of the author JMSD
    Originally Posted by WillR View Post


    What do you think? Couldn't have said it better myself.
    I have, on a number of occasions, to various marketers (names that are known to everyone not under a rock) but no notice was taken.

    You can guess my response. If not, I unsubscribed.

    Every week, I search out the names of marketers who email me more than once a week. If there are more than two emails, I simply delete the lot without reading them.

    As your subscriber mentioned, one just hasn't the time to read every email sent and I particularly dislike those emails that have a subject heading that gets me to open the email but has little or no content of relevance to that heading!

    I practise what I preach so I email my lists once a week and no more. Pure content is offered. Any recommendations are listed below my signature leaving my subscribers to decide which, if any, they wish to buy.

    I may miss the first boat when launches of good products come along but I know that keeping my list happy is more important than pushing offers at them at every turn.

    My unsubscribe rate is virtually zero and most of them have been with me for over four years.
    Jamie
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  • Profile picture of the author PlatinumLady
    My inbox fills up very quickly daily. All I do is skim the headings to see those familiar names that I have had a bad experience with in the past(selling you crap and not answering support emails etc) or those sending same emails 2-3 times for the same products. I delete these emails without reading them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      There are so many poorly-skilled e-mail marketers out
      there that it's not that hard to stand out if you put in
      the effort and provide value.

      It baffles me that so many IMers think that they're
      building a sustainable business by pimping multiple
      products from people they hardly know.

      Though the subscriber has some raised some valid
      points, I don't agree with their 'once a week' dictum.

      If you're providing valuable content and relevant offers
      that benefit your subscribers, then frequency of the
      e-mails should be less of an issue.

      Sure, there will be some subscribers who don't e-mail
      contact that's any more than once a week, but they're
      free to unsubscribe.

      If a list owner is providing me with value each time they
      contact me - I want to hear from them more, not less.

      Dedicated to mutual success,

      Shaun
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      .

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  • I have received the same email myself.

    Here was answer: "if you don't like my newsletter, hit the unsubscribe button".

    It's YOUR newsletter, you manage it the way YOU consider best.
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  • Profile picture of the author stevenfabian
    Thanks very much, you too for sharing it! Well said.
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    No agenda here...
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  • Profile picture of the author Patricia Sphar
    Jason: Will has done a great deal for his buyers (I am one of them). He has written tons of useful tips on various threads/topics in the WF. You only mentioned two points of marketing. You omitted the MOST important one: Respect. Will looks at people. You look at numbers. I will always buy from him. I will not buy from you. Customers are not stupid. But a lot of so-called 'marketers' are.....
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by Patricia Sphar View Post

      Jason: Will has done a great deal for his buyers (I am one of them). He has written tons of useful tips on various threads/topics in the WF. You only mentioned two points of marketing. You omitted the MOST important one: Respect. Will looks at people. You look at numbers. I will always buy from him. I will not buy from you. Customers are not stupid. But a lot of so-called 'marketers' are.....
      It's funny to me how the people who preach "respect" are the most disrespectful. Lol

      Gary Halbert said to market to the wolves and don't worry about offending the dogs.

      Sorry but you're the opposite of my target market in the first place.

      The kind of person Will attracts (you) are the type of people I don't want to deal with... Not just in business, but ever.

      Will rubs me the wrong way. He's been rubbing me the wrong way on this forum since January 2011.

      Even though I don't have beef with the guy whatsoever.

      But the kind of guy he is and the kind of person he attracts are the kind of people I don't aim to market to or be like.

      Different strokes for different folks.

      You can say all you want about me caring only about the numbers.

      I see myself as someone who finds a group of people who want something and I give it to them.

      That's frankly all that's on my mind when I market.

      Generate subscribers, give them what they want.

      I also promote the Warrior Forum to people who are struggling and are stuck in a world where the kind of info we share on here isn't shared that freely.

      So I take pride in what I do no matter what you say.

      Because frankly your opinions just sound like a bunch of moaning and groaning because you're heated about this thing, or heated about that thing... Always mad about something.. As always.
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      • Profile picture of the author REHughes
        Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

        It's funny to me how the people who preach "respect" are the most disrespectful. Lol
        And this coming from some who hijacked Will's thread to start belittling him!:rolleyes:

        Sorry but you're the opposite of my target market in the first place.

        The kind of person Will attracts (you) are the type of people I don't want to deal with... Not just in business, but ever.

        Will rubs me the wrong way. He's been rubbing me the wrong way on this forum since January 2011.

        Even though I don't have beef with the guy whatsoever.

        But the kind of guy he is and the kind of person he attracts are the kind of people I don't aim to market to or be like.
        Thanks, Jason, for letting us know what YOU are like.

        See, I think Will is a pretty cool guy, upright and all, and actually, I consider myself pretty respectable, most of the time, anyway.

        So where does that leave you, if we are nothing alike?

        At least now I know if I see a product of yours that it definitely isn't for me.

        Careful about how you talk about others in your posts, Jason. It just might reveal your true character!

        Robert
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        • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
          Originally Posted by REHughes View Post

          And this coming from some who hijacked Will's thread to start belittling him!:rolleyes:

          Thanks, Jason, for letting us know what YOU are like.
          It's not Will's thread. This is a public forum. Jason is offering his opinion on the OP. This is after all, a discussion forum. He can just post this on his blog if he wants to control the responses.

          Amazon emails me every day. I don't see folks complaining about Amazon, Best Buy, etc.



          Maybe the issue is the quality of the products being promoted vs. the daily emails.

          Personally, I don't email every day. But that's just me.

          Jason is a good guy, he's also very successful at what he does and how he does it. And if we don't like his style or anyone's style, all we need to do is hit the unsubscribe link.

          No need to send cheeky emails or belittle people. Just hit the unsubscribe link and move on.

          He's offering a different position to the OP but there is no need to jump all over him for it.

          We can disagree without being negative.
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  • Profile picture of the author purpleseo
    maybe some rating wsos system could be useful plugin or i dont know ??

    so guys feel they have some control on whats good and whats bad and help other readers blleh i just improvise but its to consider ...

    or maybe just ask your mail list what they want and bring it to them yeyy
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    Just one more thing then I'm not revisiting this thread...

    FACT our list is over 78,000 subscribers

    FACT probably less than 5,000 came from Warrior Forum

    FACT I promote Warrior Forum nearly every day

    FACT therefore I'm possibly showing 10s of 1000s of people the Warrior Forum for the first time

    FACT if I was all about the money then I would keep all my subscribers in the dark and sell them $5k packages all day instead of showing them Warrior Forum

    FACT although you can't see this good happening from the surface because I don't go around acting all self righteous, my company and I have helped more marketers through aggressive marketing than you may ever will through your methods

    FACT before you criticize someone and say they're only in it for the money and all they care about is numbers, get the facts
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Here are a couple of my thoughts on this.

    You really need to decide who you want on your list. In the short term, I am fairly confident there is more money for the list owner using the churn and burn methods. That assumes you can keep getting people into your system.

    Another point that bugs me about these lists is that purported "experts" are recommending everything under the sun about IM. These guys make recommendations about facebook, offline, ppc, wordpress, list building, viral stuff, kindle marketing, and on and on.

    My problem with this is 2 fold. If you recommend something to me as a great product, I better damn well see using the tactics it recommends or I am done with you. Don't tell me there is a whole bunch of money to be made using facebook, and then not have a facebook account for your business.

    More importantly, most "experts" are recommending stuff way out of their area of expertise.

    A month or so ago when there was a big Kindle marketing product launch in the wso board, I got tons of emails for it. Most of those people wouldn't know how to sell a single book on amazon, so how the hell do they know whether the info in the report was good or bad.

    As an experienced guy, I know that almost all of those people have no clue (and don't really care) whether the information in that report was solid or not. They just jumped on the bandwagon to make a few quick sales.

    But if you want to build trust with your subscribers, don't sell outside of your expertise.

    The real fact is that a guy like me who does buy 1k+ products from time to time will never stay on a list of someone using these tactics. We are smarter than that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      I have to say I've lost some respect for some marketers that are pretty well respected and have been around on this forum for a LONG TIME!

      Why?

      Because they've posted affiliate links on Facebook, or sent me emails to "OBVIOUS" inferior products, yet the tag line has made it seem like its the next best thing since sliced bread.

      One marketer in particular who claims to have been in the Google places space for years just proves its a lie by some of the CRAP Google places offers being pushed.

      They get away with it because they've carefully built up an image/persona over the years so people just swallow it down like a sepulchre swallows the dead.

      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      Here are a couple of my thoughts on this.

      You really need to decide who you want on your list. In the short term, I am fairly confident there is more money for the list owner using the churn and burn methods. That assumes you can keep getting people into your system.

      Another point that bugs me about these lists is that purported "experts" are recommending everything under the sun about IM. These guys make recommendations about facebook, offline, ppc, wordpress, list building, viral stuff, kindle marketing, and on and on.

      My problem with this is 2 fold. If you recommend something to me as a great product, I better damn well see using the tactics it recommends or I am done with you. Don't tell me there is a whole bunch of money to be made using facebook, and then not have a facebook account for your business.

      More importantly, most "experts" are recommending stuff way out of their area of expertise.

      A month or so ago when there was a big Kindle marketing product launch in the wso board, I got tons of emails for it. Most of those people wouldn't know how to sell a single book on amazon, so how the hell do they know whether the info in the report was good or bad.

      As an experienced guy, I know that almost all of those people have no clue (and don't really care) whether the information in that report was solid or not. They just jumped on the bandwagon to make a few quick sales.

      But if you want to build trust with your subscribers, don't sell outside of your expertise.

      The real fact is that a guy like me who does buy 1k+ products from time to time will never stay on a list of someone using these tactics. We are smarter than that.
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  • Profile picture of the author WriterWahm
    I don't think it's really about how frequently you mail but more about the contents of your mail. Just a quick example:
    There's a warrior member here who mails me about 3 times a week. I hate seeing her emails because ALL she ever does is sell. And I mean 100% of the time. She barely ever offers any useful information except "buy this." Now that's okay for some people but not me.

    Dr. Mani on the other hand mails practically every day and sometimes more than once a day and each time I see his mails, I drop everything and read because I get value. He shares interesting ideas and I love his ethics.

    So it isn't really about the frequency...it's about focusing on your subscriber's needs instead of your paypal account balance.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasmeek
    OMG...... My gosh that is soooo true.. To think i don't even look at the emails myself. Now i am becoming a vendor i think this should be something everyone selling a product should take note from...

    Signed The "buyer who" is now a "seller"
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Hess
    If a subscriber sent me that email, I would unsubscribe them...

    ... I'm not going to be told how to run my business. I don't need a lecture. If they want to build a business/list and send out an email once a week, let them.
    ... Value doesn't have to be free.
    ... If you don't mail, you don't make money so what's the point of having a list?
    ... How many "real" businesses send out useful information in emails? When my daughter was born, you think 'Babies 'R' US' was sending me parenting tips? Hell no, they were sending me offers and I bought. I wanted solutions, not to read a bunch of crap. If you're building a list in the right market(s), people want solutions.
    ... You get the same number of unsubscribes if you're promoting an offer or sending out "valuable" information. So why not put yourself in the position to make money?
    ...The TOS of some autoresponders read that if a person purchases from you, they can be added to your list so don't think it's 'tricky' to add someone after they purchase a product from you.
    ... If it's not all about the money, then this is just a hobby.

    Just because you promote often doesn't mean you're an asshole or don't "care" about your subscribers. Some of us spend a lot of time each week answering questions we receive from replies to our emails (for free, no strings attached).

    One big thing, you need to be consistent. If you mail everyday, people will get used to seeing you in their inbox. If they don't like it, it takes a whole 4 seconds for them to hit the unsubscribe link.

    Don't be afraid to sell, this is marketing after all.

    It doesn't have to be sleazy, promote stuff you like/use. Products, just like movies, music, or anything else are subjective. Some people will love it, others will hate it. If you find value in something, pass it along.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dimitris Skiadas
    Every single day, i think of the same exact thing!

    I won't mention any names because i don't think is ethical but i purchased a WSO recently and i was receiving 1-2 emails per day from the seller!

    It's too much!The frequency should be 1 email per 7-8 days i believe!

    Anyway, great post Will!Thanks for sharing!

    Cheers

    Dimitris
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    lol that might be what he wants but only a fool would take his advice.

    You can't please everyone.

    And all he has to do is unsubscribe. Easy. Why he gets his knickers in a twist, I have no idea.
    I am going to have to respectfully disagree with this.

    If the real way to make big money online is lots of emails for lots of things to buy every day, why don't amazon, walmart, ebay,.... do it that way?

    Those are all very profitable businesses that just don't go the way you seem to indicate is the best approach to making money online.

    Do you really think all those retailers are fools. Or is it maybe just that they know they will make more over time by not pissing off their clients.

    I fully understand the churn and burn stuff, but to suggest anyone not heavily endorsing using this methodology...is a fool.... that's just nuts.

    I have watched the IM game for about 16 years. About 8 or so ago, the big guys started to do this JV stuff with everyone and it diluted their lists almost overnight.

    Then they went to ultra high priced stuff to make up for the fact that their list was no longer as responsive. Now, many of those same guys have been forced into using payment processor like ccbill (mostly adult stuff) just to survive.

    Do you really think they fully understand business? It sure seems to me that many of those supposedly teaching people how to do this stuff keep shooting themselves in the foot.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

      It's a different business model demanding

      So, in aggregate, my subscribers are happier. Am I supposed to please a minority at the expense of the majority? Not only will that make me less money but it would also be worse for my subscribers.
      I aggree, but as someone who has watched things for a long time, I am just not sure many IMers "get it".

      Many things major IM gurus were preaching just a few years ago, they have all but abandoned now.

      My point is that many (probably most) of the IM "gurus" don't really understand business well enough to calculate the ramifications of the decisions they make in business today.

      If those gurus had it to do over, most would have avoided the whole couple years of JV craze and kept the lists in the hands of fewer people. That was a fatal mistake for many that was made by many industry leaders at the time.

      As you state in the part I quoted you have to give your list what they want. By the same token, you have to cultivate a list and behaviorally train them to act the way you want them to.

      Those who don't like your methods leave, those who do stay. But one method is not better than the other.

      Your method only works best for your list because that's the kind of people you have attracted to your list and because that's how you have behaviorally trained those people to respond.
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      • Profile picture of the author MarkR
        Ever since seemingly every Warrior has become an affiliate of seemingly all WSO's, it's out of control. 5-10+ "offers" for the same WSO....

        My wish is for every Warrior to remind/tell me why I'm on their list in every email. I do it with my list.

        I'm probably unsubscribing from people that sold me software that I want to be notified of updates on, and people that offered a great product that I want to hear about the next product, but if I don't recognize the name, or they use "Admin" or some other generic name, I'm unsubscribing when I don't want to.

        Also, wouldn't it be great if the unsubscribe page from AWeber, GetResponse, etc. said something like "The reason you're on this list is because you bought XYZ product / download ABC report / want to be notified of updates to MNOP software, etc. The list owner's real name / company name is John Doe / MarkR Enterprises. Do you still want to unsubscribe?". That would make my day, and make some list owners more money.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          I was on E Brian Roses list for a while. Note, this is no dig at him, I like the guy and I've bought some great stuff off him.

          Here's the thing. I was getting a lot of emails from him and, maybe it's just me but when I buy something and it's really good, when I get the next email I tend to trust that I'll be getting a similarly good product. For me a lot of those follow up affiliate pitches/products are not on the same level. As a result I start to think that the marketer is just using me to make sales - which they are and that's quite normal. I certainly don't have an issue with that.

          Trouble is, I go from really respecting the person for a great product, buying the follow up recommendations, being disappointed and then losing that respect. There is a lesson there in itself.

          I unsubscribed from Brian's list and I went straight to a new page where he offers to stop sending daily emails and do a weekly one of all the top stuff he's come across. This was months ago and I stayed on that list. So this isn't new and it certainly worked in my case.

          Another point to mention is a lot of people responding here send out good offers with good recommendations, once or twice a day. This is ok. Sadly though, for those of you that do this, your emails are also hitting the inbox at the same time as a large bunch of amateurs who have jumped on a bandwagon and in some people eyes, you become like them....and they are copying your methods but they are doing it badly.
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          • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
            I recently purchased a WSO where the seller demanded an opt-in to get the product. No opt-in - no delivery of what I just paid for. Their lame excuse - it's password protected - the password being part of the product's name. Big lock on the door there.

            They alluded that they didn't want my email addy to so they could send more offers, but rather because it was necessary for the process to run smoothly. Admittedly, I may be twisting this a bit out of bad perception or memory or both, but the picture they painted was basically that picture.

            Well guess what...that's right, my perception of the words they used to conjure an email addy out of me was incorrect. They wanted and used my email addy to promote more offers.

            So I unsubscribed.

            So I thought.

            Seems like I was moved from one list to another by the same person, or I subscribed to two lists when I was forced to give them my email addy.

            No big deal. No hard feelings. They're a marketer doing what they believe marketers do, and perhaps it works for them.

            But what do you think the chances of me ever buying a product from them again are?

            If you guessed "slim" you'd be in the ballpark.

            It has a wee bit to do with trust, don't you know.

            Email lists. They're not just for breakfast, anymore...:p

            ~Bill
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            • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
              Let me guess, you paid via Paypal yes? Requiring an opt in for email address to receive a product purchased through Paypal is against their TOS from what I understand of their rules.

              I bought plenty of products where I get taken to a squeeze page that I had to fill out before I could get access to the product.

              Its so simple to get the data you want by using for instance Awebers API which adds a buy automatically to your list without the customer ever having to enter anything. The customer then gets a confirmation email from aweber and they can choose to confirm or not. SIMPLE!

              Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

              I recently purchased a WSO where the seller demanded an opt-in to get the product. No opt-in - no delivery of what I just paid for. Their lame excuse - it's password protected - the password being part of the product's name. Big lock on the door there.

              They alluded that they didn't want my email addy to so they could send more offers, but rather because it was necessary for the process to run smoothly. Admittedly, I may be twisting this a bit out of bad perception or memory or both, but the picture they painted was basically that picture.

              Well guess what...that's right, my perception of the words they used to conjure an emai addy out of me was incorrect. They wanted and used my email addy to promote more offers.

              So I unsubscribed.

              So I thought.

              Seems like I was moved from one list to another by the same person, or I subscribed to two lists when I was forced to give them my email addy.

              No big deal. No hard feelings. They're a marketer doing what they believe marketers do, and perhaps it works for them.

              But what do you think the chances of me ever buying a product from them again are?

              If you guessed "slim" you'd be in the ballpark.

              It has a wee bit to do with trust, don't you know.

              Email lists. They're not just for breakfast, anymore...:p

              ~Bill
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              • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
                Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

                Let me guess, you paid via Paypal yes? Requiring an opt in for email address to receive a product purchased through Paypal is against their TOS from what I understand of their rules.
                Close, but no cigar.

                Let me state again this is not a big deal. What stood out to me wasn't as much getting an email addy out of me, I give that out everyday, as it was the way the sillyness was constructed.

                ~Bill
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              • Profile picture of the author David Keith
                Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

                Its so simple to get the data you want by using for instance Awebers API which adds a buy automatically to your list without the customer ever having to enter anything. The customer then gets a confirmation email from aweber and they can choose to confirm or not. SIMPLE!
                Not as easy as you would think for some of these folks who have been "in business" all of maybe 3 weeks.
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                • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
                  Well, you don't even have to use the API either! You could simply put a contact form on the product download page and simply ask the customer to put their name and email in so they can receive monster amounts of spam from you for sub-par products that you wish to make money from! HAHA

                  Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

                  Not as easy as you would think for some of these folks who have been "in business" all of maybe 3 weeks.
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                  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
                    Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

                    Well, you don't even have to use the API either! You could simply put a contact form on the product download page and simply ask the customer to put their name and email in so they can receive monster amounts of spam from you for sub-par products that you wish to make money from! HAHA
                    lol...Maybe honesty isn't always the best policy if your looking to make money with a list. I am pretty sure that would cut into your conversion rate. Although as always...you would need to test it to be sure.
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Personally, I pay more attention to the list-owners who send out a newsletter maybe once or twice a week. The newsletters are longish, and don't just contain a sales pitch. They tell stories, or give a tutorial, or an in-depth product review. They are quality newsletters, not just pitch after pitch after bloody pitch.

      The other ones, I simply delete them unless something catches my eye, but if they start to send more than one email a day, or they do something publicly that doesn't sit well with me, I unsub. Simple, I'm obviously not their target market, and I know it.

      To each their own.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Many things major IM gurus were preaching just a few years ago, they have all but abandoned now.
        Most email lists today by IMers are not autoresponder - they are "blast lists". It still works - for some "gurus".

        The practice was made popular a while back by Frank Kern who had good success with doing it. Everyone following Kern began trying it and now lists are blasted daily with "did you see this WSO" or "look at this great product"....and that's all the marketer has to tell you.

        When a few people try something new - it's unique and often works well. When everyone does it, it quickly becomes old hat.

        kay
        Signature
        Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
        ***
        One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
        what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Alexander
    I love WSO's and I love hearing about them. Why?

    If you laid out a road map and goal list (even assuming you didn't already have an existing business) of where you wanted to be and what you think you needed to get there, with some sifting you could do so with a lot of what is offered here.

    Yes you need action and plenty of sweat. (Although I'd bet someone could point me to some kind of project manager services being offered here that could connect those dots for you as well.)

    But I like knowing what's available to me as a resource.

    But...

    If, you don't really know that the product you're pushing will help me, but only say so because it (the original creator) says so, or you fib a bit about it, or haven't done more than theorize about it because, heck, it's only just launched and your review copy is three days old (probably need three weeks to just get an idea of feasibility on some products)...

    Then I feel like it's more about you than me. And while I could very well be wrong, and I might be way off...(who am I to know a person's heart)...you lose my trust, even if the mistake is on my end about you.

    But that's still fine.

    I'm still checking your emails, but now I skim. Now I unconsciously compare you with the four other guys pitching the same thing that day. And you become in danger of becoming "that guy".

    It's neither bad nor good in my opinion, it just is.

    But like you, I only have so many hours in the day. And I'm one distracted fella about 7 out of the 11 hours I give to "daytime" stuff (real work, exploratory work, catch-up, prospecting and taking care of my daughter at home).

    But I won't unsubscribe, I'd rather skim. The onus is on me to ignore it or not. I don't fault anyone for emailing me. Most of the time I appreciate it as I always get something out of it. Even if it's just to steer clear of it as it'd be a time suck not worth investing learning further about.

    I've made money directly because of offers here so I appreciate good tips. Anyway...those are my thoughts...don't let my wife fool ya, they're worth at least $0.17.

    PS - For what it's worth Rus and Will, and at the risk of looking like a suck-up, you both have influenced my purchasing decisions (without knowing it) simply by the value you've provided here in the forums. I appreciate your contributions and I'd listen to promotions from guys like you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Noel Cunningham
    Brilliant email - it could have been me writing that on so many occasions. I've unsubscribed from a lot of list for the exact same reasons. We all know thats how a list generates money but the frequency of these emails can piss off many a customer...

    Def something to keep in mind. Quality over quantity everytime.
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  • Profile picture of the author igorGriffiths
    Having just started the cleansing process myself, I found the frequency of the emails is irrelevant.

    What I do is sort by sender then look at the subject titles, help or pitch is the criteria here, if the balance falls massively towards pitch then its unsubscribe, delete all messages and move onto next sender.

    How many offers do you need to make your success and thus how many lists do you need to be a subscriber of that is the question to be answered.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
      I personally don't like to get bombarded with emails from anyone - I have only so many hours in a day and simply don't have time to read all the emails let alone really look at all the offers they're promoting.

      But if you think about it, there's a real irony in all this:

      Everyone keeps preaching about the "bright shiny object syndrome", yet, a huge number of the very people who preach about it are the ones who keep sending emails with - you guessed it - the latest "bright shiny object" that we (those on their list) should jump on! Go figure! :rolleyes:
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      If you don't face your fears, the only thing you'll ever see is what's in your comfort zone. ~Anne McClain, astronaut
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again

    If you want to know how its done, join up to Martin Avis's newsletter Kickstart Today Signup page

    He has newsletters down to a fine art, learn from a master

    Kim

    Originally Posted by WillR View Post

    Today I received an interesting email from one of my subscribers. Before you get the wrong impression, no, he was not sending this email directed towards me. He actually just wanted to show me the exact email he had sent out to the 30+ other vendors to whom which he is subscribed and receives regular emails from.

    (I use the word 'subscribe' very lightly there. Often you will end up receiving these product emails when just purchasing a product... without willingly OR knowingly subscribing to anything.)

    I had a quick read through his email, loved it, and asked if he wouldn't mind if I shared it (anonymously of course) on the Warrior Forum for others to read. I think it could be quite beneficial to all vendors; both those in the WSO forum and those who sell elsewhere.

    From the overwhelming response I received to a blog post of mine the other day, I think this one email sums up the feelings of many, if not the majority of, WSO buyers. Keep in mind this is NOT an email written by me, a WSO vendor, this is from one of the guys who are actually out there buying your products as we speak.

    What do you think? Couldn't have said it better myself.
    But are you sending out a newsletter or just a pile of promotions, very few people nowadays bother to send out a decent newsletter, so yeah I will hit the unsubscribe if you're just blatently trying to sell to me

    Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

    I have received the same email myself.

    Here was answer: "if you don't like my newsletter, hit the unsubscribe button".

    It's YOUR newsletter, you manage it the way YOU consider best.
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  • Profile picture of the author tomandre
    Personally I never bombard my buyers lists with affiliate offers. I try to keep my subscribers happy, and stick to sending emails about my own launches and a rare affiliate offer IF I think it's a quality product. I'm pretty sure I would lose many of them if I started bombarding them with every freakin' product coming out here.
    Basically, I want to keep my subscribers happy...and even get more personal with them in my recommendations.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Jason Parker - I see myself as someone who finds a group of people who want something and I give it to them.

      That's frankly all that's on my mind when I market.
      I'm glad you're like that and I respect that. However, when you say that I believe you're speaking for yourself.

      I say that because I can tell from a lot of the emails I get that "helping others" is definately not "all they have on their mind".

      Like I said before, there are a lot of very good marketers, sending lots of emails, helping others and doing it right. There are also a huge amount trying to copy you and they are doing it wrong.

      This is like a lot of threads here where the people that "bombard" their lists are grouped as one, when in actual fact they are lots of different people all doing the same thing in the way they've tested to work, or in a lot of cases, "heard" how it works....I know, I even bought a WSO showing how "easy" it was to do. I suspect from my inbox, quite a few other less businesslike people bought it too. :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
        If you listen to Dan Kennedy, he'll tell you that the ONLY
        people you should listen to are customers who send you
        money.

        In fact, he even advises that you ignore everyone else.

        I semi-agree with that, but I'm open to receiving feedback
        from prospects and customers as they can raise valid
        concerns at times.

        Decide on your business model and objectives and then
        follow a plan of action to get you there.

        Dedicated to mutual success,

        Shaun
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        .

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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I've said it before, and I'll say it again
      And that's where the trust factor comes in. Kim said "do it" and I did it

      kay
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      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
      what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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  • Profile picture of the author FrankieTP2
    The common problem I see among list owners is that they think the first thing they give away gives them permission to bombard the subscribers with their affiliate/own offers all the time.

    When you have a list you are free to do whatever you want with it. But the most intelligent thing to do is to keep a balance. Help them and they will help you in return. Business is all about reciprocity and helping each other. Of course, it sometimes is not obviously noticeable but that's what it is.
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    I Bet My Wife I Could Make $100 Bucks In Only 3 Days...
    WITH NO PRODUCT - NO LIST - NO JV'S and NO TRAFFIC.

    Here's What Happened... Click HERE To Find Out The Results!

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  • Profile picture of the author dseisner
    Somebody sent me this thread and I thought I'd chime in...

    Guys, the issue of mailing frequency is really an easy one to figure out. Well it is now, after doing this for a couple of years.

    From the standpoint of a list owner, you're always trying to make the most money from your subscribers. Determining mailing frequency is all about money, don't be silly by saying otherwise. It's part of your marketing plan. What's the point of marketing if you're not trying to make money? But I say that under the caveat that I am always striving to operate with integrity and provide my customers/subscribers value. Probably that doesn't apply to everybody, but whatever. I speak as if it does.

    Now, if they click and buy every day, then I assume that's what they WANT. Otherwise, why would they do it? I'm not fooling them if I send them an affiliate promo everyday. As long as the product I'm sending out has a transparent sales letter and a guarantee, how am I steering them in the wrong direction?

    The fact is, if you want your list to be more responsive when you send an email, you can't blast them an email everyday (or twice a day!). The majority of your subscribers don't have the time to look at an offer everyday. So if they are constantly seeing your name, they won't open for your NAME anymore, they'll click for your HEADLINE.

    If they open for your NAME, then you have a loyal following and a responsive list who cares what you have to say. If they open for your HEADLINE, they care less about who you are. If you're already at the stage where your people are opening for your headline and you know it (like in Jason's case where he is just building a list of freebie-seekers and the majority do not know him from Adam or feel like they have a relationship with him), then you might as well mail them everyday. Because if you don't, they STILL won't open for your name. In fact, they will not know who you are and will just think you are spamming them.

    The guys who focus on building an actual brand and only mail out once in a while usually crush it hard because their subs respect their opinion. Some guys are respected so highly that I bet they don't even need to write copy. They could just say, OK, this is what I'm recommending - buy it. And they would still crush it.

    You've got to decide what you want your business to look like. Do you want to be a guy who promotes for hundreds of partners and lets your list know about multiple offers a week? Or do you want to be the guy who reserves his recommendations to a very small frequency? Or somewhere in between?

    In the end, which will make you most money? Well, like Jason said, probably mailing every day. But ONLY IF you are growing your list frequently. The upside to this method is that email addresses go stale quite quickly these days. And if you are constantly building up your list, blasting them, and burning them out, then it's an EXCELLENT short term money-making model. The problem occurs when you one day just want an asset to cash in on and it's no longer there or it just won't last you very long.

    If you nurture your list, they will last longer. Years perhaps. So if you have a small buyers list, this is probably the approach you want to take. Otherwise you can run through them quite easily just by looking like everyone else or diluting your authority by recommending too many products.

    Ultimately, the idea of listening to ONE of your subscribers about mailing frequency would be the most foolish business decision of them all. It's not that this guy's opinions aren't valuable, it's that his standalone opinion is not worth basing a decision like this on - in fact, it's completely illogical. A much more intelligent approach would be to poll your list, and in one or in a couple of the questions, ask them how often they would like to be emailed, what they would like to be emailed about, etc. But ultimately, THAT doesn't even matter. What matters are their buying patterns, which they probably don't even know and can't accurately describe. It's kind of like asking a woman what she wants in a man. She'll try to tell you but ultimately it's just a feeling and often she will do something quite different than what she claims she wants.

    So holding yourself to some hard and fast rule about once a week... uh, only if you want to become really predictable and do what one sub tells you to. I personally find that to be a dangerous frequency. Maybe one offer per week. Eh, as I write it, I realize, it doesn't matter! Just press send and include high-quality offers and you will make money either way.

    But...

    THE CRUX OF THE MATTER:
    If you hit send often, you'll make less money, more often, and lose more leads.
    If you hit send infrequently, you'll make more money, less often, and keep more leads.
    And that operates on a logical sliding scale. Make this decision based on your needs of income frequency, your long-term business goals, and how often you'd like to hunt offers and write emails.

    Any way you do it though, it's tough not to make loads of money with email.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adam James
    Great post list owners have got to realise they are sending these emails out to real people, would be nice to get an email without an affiliate link in it from time to time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ankesh Kothari
    I have to take a contrarian view. Because this thread is dangerous.

    Don't listen to advice from people who want to hear less from you. Take advice from people who want to hear more from you.

    Segment based on behaviour. Not on preference.

    A few subscribers may say that they prefer getting emails just once a week. But what does your sales data show? Does sending emails more frequently lead to more sales? Or more unsubscribers - losing life time value from a subscriber?

    Let the data do the talking. Not a single subscriber who has subscribed to 40 lists and is suffering from information overload.

    His point about only sending emails that are good and useful - that of course has to be followed. Don't send crappy emails is rule number 1.

    A helpful post on how often you should communicate with your subscribers:
    How Often Should You Blog? (4 Blog Frequency Guidelines) - SuccessNexus.com
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    • Profile picture of the author Young Samurai
      It's definitely never dull when WillR is around. Notice how he lights the fuse and then clears away off. :rolleyes:

      In fairness to WillR - his emails are like his wsos: they are infrequent, short on rhetoric and deliver real value.

      Whilst agreeing that there are some folk who regularly send out rubbish and it's very annoying clearing out the junk every day,

      looking at it from the list owners pov I think Ankesh's post sums it up well.

      Originally Posted by Ankesh Kothari View Post

      Don't listen to advice from people who want to hear less from you. Take advice from people who want to hear more from you.

      Segment based on behaviour. Not on preference.

      A few subscribers may say that they prefer getting emails just once a week. But what does your sales data show? Does sending emails more frequently lead to more sales? Or more unsubscribers - losing life time value from a subscriber?

      Let the data do the talking. Not a single subscriber who has subscribed to 40 lists and is suffering from information overload.

      His point about only sending emails that are good and useful - that of course has to be followed. Don't send crappy emails is rule number 1.

      A helpful post on how often you should communicate with your subscribers:
      How Often Should You Blog? (4 Blog Frequency Guidelines) - SuccessNexus.com
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      Kyle
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  • Profile picture of the author lukem
    I thought it was a very well put together email. I now only use a throw away email for signing up to lists and products. I received somewhere near 500 affiliate offer emails in one week, as the sample OP email suggests some "gurus" email me the same offer 3 times in one day!
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    @Eisner - Your whole post make perfect sense. It just leaves out one crucial part of the equation. It depends on whether you are an affiliate or not, or partial affiliate, or total product creator guru.

    @REHughes - Thanks. You're saying you're a respectful person as you're disrespecting me. That makes sense. You also fall in the category of the type of people I don't even try to market to because you're a headache. I'm glad you wouldn't buy a product of mine. Dealing with you isn't worth any amount of money.


    There. I knew this thread was missing something lol

    Bottom line... Although Hess probably markets differently than I do, I share the same opinion.

    Anyone who tells me how to market to my list can do the following 3 steps:

    Step 1 - Unsubscribe from list

    Step 2 - Take advice

    Step 3 - Insert advice into own anus


    I know what good I bring into the lives of my subscribers who get what they want from me and end up joining Warrior Forum and getting the same chance I had to be part of a (for-the-most-part) giving and helpful community of marketers.

    I'm done with this thread and didn't mean to hijack it in the first place. Pointless conversation. I'm only saying the things people are thinking but don't have the guts to say.
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    • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
      Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

      If there was ever a guideline, that would be it. Not to make the most money and not to be the best person. Just because it is the right thing to do.

      Sending out offer after offer full of lies and "buying triggers" is a sad way to spend every day. If your business is built upon a foundation of empty promises and manipulative tactics I am quite confident you won't last unless you get lucky, period. Most new marketers fail at list building because they don't take the time to build a relationship. FACT. Anyone who comes in here and says they can sell to a list that has zero knowledge of who they are by spamming affiliate offers is full of bull and if they do get lucky it is typically a one time sale.

      Go ahead and argue and tell me I'm not your target market. As happy as you are I don't buy from you, I am certainly equally as happy to not support your delusion towards decency.
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      • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
        Wow... Do I seriously have to keep defending myself on this thread?

        Originally Posted by NicheMayhem View Post

        Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

        If there was ever a guideline, that would be it. Not to make the most money and not to be the best person. Just because it is the right thing to do.
        If you're against advertising then why not throw your TV and radio out the window while you're at it? Because you're getting more ads from those mediums in one day then you will from me in a lifetime. I guess all advertisers are bad people then, right?

        Originally Posted by NicheMayhem View Post

        Sending out offer after offer full of lies and "buying triggers" is a sad way to spend every day. If your business is built upon a foundation of empty promises and manipulative tactics I am quite confident you won't last unless you get lucky, period.
        No one ever said anything about lying. If you lie and deceive then you obviously suck.

        Originally Posted by NicheMayhem View Post

        Most new marketers fail at list building because they don't take the time to build a relationship.
        Prove it.

        Originally Posted by NicheMayhem View Post

        Anyone who comes in here and says they can sell to a list that has zero knowledge of who they are by spamming affiliate offers is full of bull and if they do get lucky it is typically a one time sale.
        This is the Can Spam Act. Read it and find out what SPAM is The CAN-SPAM Act: A Compliance Guide for Business | BCP Business Center

        Originally Posted by NicheMayhem View Post

        Go ahead and argue and tell me I'm not your target market. As happy as you are I don't buy from you, I am certainly equally as happy to not support your delusion towards decency.
        Get a marketing education.
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        • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
          Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

          Wow... Do I seriously have to keep defending myself on this thread?
          It's sort of funny how everything I had to say translated into you defending yourself. Do you have to defend yourself? Apparently, and in such a way that gives me a bad impression of you. Why are we here discussing this? To belittle and insult all those who oppose us or to have contrasting opinions?

          Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

          If you're against advertising then why not throw your TV and radio out the window while you're at it? Because you're getting more ads from those mediums in one day then you will from me in a lifetime. I guess all advertisers are bad people then, right?

          The only advertising I am against is that which is deceitful and intrusive. I'm not going to throw my tv out the window but I do change the channel when the obvious junk product commercials come up on the screen. We all know what they look like and they all contain the same empty promises and format. Do they still sell those products? Sure, but I think the point of the thread was to convey how multiple offers and repeat offers which all proclaim to be the next best thing can label your business as untrustworthy. Not entirely ridiculous to consider the possibility that selling to your list requires some finesse and thought.

          Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

          No one ever said anything about lying. If you lie and deceive then you obviously suck.
          Obviously. How about if you come off as pompous and intolerant? As long as your selling right?

          Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

          Prove it.
          I thought it was common knowledge to establish trust with your list. It is possible for me to be wrong, enlighten me then and prove otherwise.

          Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

          This is the Can Spam Act. Read it and find out what SPAM is The CAN-SPAM Act: A Compliance Guide for Business | BCP Business Center
          Did you deliberately disregard the crucial point of my sentence which you quoted? "Zero knowledge of who they are."

          A good example would be when new marketers go and buy email lists. They may follow the guidelines set forth by the Can-SPAM act but that doesn't mean a healthy percentage of the email addresses they bought are going to buy from them. Obvious right? Well, many new people who see other marketers sending out daily offers and repeats fail to take the time to establish any kind of presence. They go looking for shortcuts and then land here looking for an easy button to get people to buy from them.

          You see, I think you are narrow minded and only associate anything anyone says with how it relates to you personally. If you were to broaden your perspective and consider all the wrong things marketers attempt to do perhaps a bit of logic would seep in, especially in regard to the first post of this thread.

          Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

          Get a marketing education.
          Will do, just as soon as you go back to kindergarten and learn some manners.

          Nothing will ever convince me to abandon my stance on not being a jerk. No amount of money is worth taking advantage of other people being gullible. I'd rather not have the guilt I personally associate with many of the things I see and hear of people trying to do in this industry. To each their own though, you seem to be hell bent on only arguing specific points about the emails YOU send out. In general though, if people would start out following that whole "do unto others" thing maybe this industry wouldn't have such a horrid reputation for being filled to the brim with crooked liars.
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          • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
            Originally Posted by NicheMayhem View Post

            It's sort of funny how everything I had to say translated into you defending yourself. Do you have to defend yourself? Apparently, and in such a way that gives me a bad impression of you. Why are we here discussing this? To belittle and insult all those who oppose us or to have contrasting opinions?
            You assume that anyone who sends emails more frequently than you do is a crooked liar.

            Originally Posted by NicheMayhem View Post

            The only advertising I am against is that which is deceitful and intrusive. I'm not going to throw my tv out the window but I do change the channel when the obvious junk product commercials come up on the screen. We all know what they look like and they all contain the same empty promises and format. Do they still sell those products? Sure, but I think the point of the thread was to convey how multiple offers and repeat offers which all proclaim to be the next best thing can label your business as untrustworthy. Not entirely ridiculous to consider the possibility that selling to your list requires some finesse and thought.
            You know why it's not intrusive? Because you don't have to be on an e-mail list. That's your choice. Click the unsubscribe link, wipe your tears, and quit crying.

            Originally Posted by NicheMayhem View Post

            You see, I think you are narrow minded and only associate anything anyone says with how it relates to you personally. If you were to broaden your perspective and consider all the wrong things marketers attempt to do perhaps a bit of logic would seep in, especially in regard to the first post of this thread.
            Mailing offers daily isn't wrong. IF you're giving your list what they want. The subscribers who remain on your list keep getting what they want. The ones who unsubscribe you weren't targeting in the first place.

            Originally Posted by NicheMayhem View Post

            Nothing will ever convince me to abandon my stance on not being a jerk.
            Thanks for the laugh.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

      Anyone who tells me how to market to my list can do the following 3 steps:

      Step 1 - Unsubscribe from list

      Step 2 - Take advice

      Step 3 - Insert advice into own anus
      So I unsubscribe, then I take your advice?

      Then I print it out and put it up my bum? Or do I try and fit the laptop up there?

      You should just come out of the closet more. Shaun likes it in missionary apparently. I'd ask first though.
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      • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        So I unsubscribe, then I take your advice?

        Then I print it out and put it up my bum? Or do I try and fit the laptop up there?

        You should just come out of the closet more. Shaun likes it in missionary apparently. I'd ask first though.
        lol

        It may be safer to print it out, burn it, and just stuff the ashes up there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Hess
    Originally Posted by Young And Opulent View Post

    LOL @ the one guy saying he's not going to let a subscriber tell him how to run his business. You mean to tell me that you aren't going to entertain suggestions from the same person whose money you're trying to get?
    I'm not trying to "get" anyone's money... I promote products that offer solutions. Should someone decide to purchase a product I recommend, awesome. If they decide to pass or unsubscribe, that's fine too.

    I've been email marketing for years now, understand that certain people you don't want on your list. It can cause you to doubt what your're doing or bring a lot of hassle or negativity into your business.

    I see people everyday that run big WSO's, build a nice sized list, and only send out one or two emails. Then you never hear from them again. That's because early on you may get some nasty replies from people who receive your emails or bust your balls because they feel like something you're doing is wrong.

    You have a list of several thousand people... you may not be marketing to them specifically or they may just not be a good fit for your list.

    I focus more on the subscribers that want to hear from me versus unsubscribes or people who have an opinion on how I should run my business.

    I don't let others dictate my business and if something has been working for me, I won't stop doing it because of one person's opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      As I said in a previous response, the people who are naturally going to disagree with this thread are the very people out there emailing their lists several times a week. That was a given. There is also no right or wrong answer. Each to their own.

      Originally Posted by Mark Hess View Post

      I see people everyday that run big WSO's, build a nice sized list, and only send out one or two emails. Then you never hear from them again. That's because early on you may get some nasty replies from people who receive your emails or bust your balls because they feel like something you're doing isn't right.
      That's simply an assumption of yours though. Maybe it's because they do not want to send out a whole heap of offers to their list because they choose to not be one of those types of marketers. As I have said before, it's not ALWAYS about the money. To some people it is, to others it's not.

      I don't see helping my list as sending them multiple offers week after week. I believe some email marketers say that kind of thing just to help them sleep well at night... "I'm doing it to help my list". The truth is, we as marketers know that information overload is one of the biggest reasons newbies fail in this industry. I understand that and unless there is a product I think my list desperately needs, then they are not going to hear about it from me because I understand how temptation can very easily get in the way of progress.

      This is the way I look at it. If the stuff you (proverbial you) are recommending to your list is so great, why the need to be recommending so much stuff over and over?

      Originally Posted by Mark Hess View Post

      I don't let others dictate my business and if something has been working for me, I won't stop doing it because of one person's opinion.
      That's a shame. Quite often that one persons opinion is what majority of your list are thinking but not saying. I like to listen to my subscribers. One persons opinion is just as valid as the next. I guess that is where we differ.

      Originally Posted by Mark Hess View Post

      I'm not trying to "get" anyone's money... I promote products that offer solutions.
      .... in the hope that they buy those solutions and you 'get' money. I'm sorry. Not following the distinction there.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Hess
        Years ago I purchased several courses on email marketing... listened to their sugar coated advice because it sounded good.

        Then, I got on their lists and saw how they were actually doing it which was completely opposite of what was being taught.

        Many newbies fail because they listen to sugar coated advice versus watching what marketers are really doing with their own business.

        It also comes down to the type of list you have...

        Some of the best relationships are built through financial transactions... you deliver value, you gain that person's trust.

        When I say value doesn't have to be free, if we take WSO's as an example, getting your subscribers into a dimesale early and saving them money on a heavily promoted product can be value. Same with assisting them with downloads from vendors or refund requests.

        The most unsubscribes I had in a single email last year was when I wished my list a happy thanksgiving (true story).

        There's a big difference from taking business advice from an expert versus a person with little experience in what you're doing. Then it's just an opinion and everyone has one of those.

        The only people that have problems sleeping at night are people that are doing something wrong.
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        • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
          Originally Posted by Mark Hess View Post


          The most unsubscribes I had in a single email last year was when I wished my list a happy thanksgiving (true story).
          Hilarious. I get the most unsubscribes when I give away something for free or send people to a blog post. That's when I also get the most spam complaints.
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        • Profile picture of the author ShaneGorry
          Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

          There are many different approaches you can take to
          interacting with your list and what's right for you is not
          necessarily going to fit well for someone else.

          It seems to me that there are two polar opposite approaches
          and most people sit somewhere in-between.

          One the one extreme, you have the complete MERCENARY
          who's only in Internet Marketing for the money and doesn't
          care much about anyone else but themeselves.

          Then on the other side, you have what I'd call the MARTYR
          who is only focused on helping other people (and is in fact
          scared sh!tless to sell).

          Like I say, most people fall somewhere in between. For example,
          you can be a mercenary with a desire to help others.

          I prefer the MISSIONARY approach where you help others
          AND you also get paid handsomely in return for the value
          you create for others.

          At the end of the day, choose the approach that fits who
          you are and the people you want to focus on.

          Dedicated to mutual success,

          Shaun
          Of the two extremes I find the Martyr slightly more irritating. Instead of handing out cookies how about learning how to make them and then either give me or sell me the recipe. At least I'll know you know what your talking about.

          Originally Posted by Mark Hess View Post

          Some of the best relationships are built through financial transactions... you deliver value, you gain that person's trust.
          To me this is at the heart of what divides good business from bad business. Individual styles of conducting business are usually based on what each marketer has tested and found works for them. There seem to be endless threads debating what the right method is for this or that aspect of marketing which is all pretty pointless. If you delivering value and using and tweaking what works for you to do so then who gives a **** what anyone else thinks about how you conduct business.

          If your not giving value then your destroying value and you suck. Nuff said.
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        • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
          Originally Posted by Mark Hess View Post

          The most unsubscribes I had in a single email last year was when I wished my list a happy thanksgiving (true story).
          what kind of people would unsubscribe from your list JUST because you wished them a Happy Thanksgiving?
          that's the kind of people I personally wouldn't want on my list anyway.

          I don't know...I think people are strange...

          edit: unless you tried to market to them on the holidays, or maybe they don't celebrate Thanksgiving, or they didn't want to be bothered on a holiday?

          I edited out the cuss-word...I take it back, after thinking about it some more. Because I'd be one of those who would un-sub too if you're marketing to me on a holiday.

          I know, I'm strange too....
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  • Profile picture of the author ExRat
    Hi Y&O,

    Originally Posted by Young And Opulent View Post

    LOL @ the one guy saying he's not going to let a subscriber tell him how to run his business. You mean to tell me that you aren't going to entertain suggestions from the same person whose money you're trying to get?
    I'm not sure if I'm understanding your point, but if I am, then my response is that in my opinion, no he's not. Chiefly, because he's probably not marketing to just one person and he's probably not altering his whole business strategy based on one subscriber's *opinion*.

    Instead, he's probably going to analyse the data in relation to ALL of his subscribers and their actions (not opinions) and proceed accordingly with his business strategy.

    Hi Jason,

    I was requoting Kennedy from Shaun's post above (post #57), I don't want to be seen to be stealing other peoples' credit for their requotes of great quotes!
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by ExRat View Post


      Hi Jason,

      I was requoting Kennedy from Shaun's post above (post #57), I don't want to be seen to be stealing other peoples' credit for their requotes of great quotes!
      lol

      Nice.

      The "Thanks" has been removed and appropriately redistributed to Shaun.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      There are many different approaches you can take to
      interacting with your list and what's right for you is not
      necessarily going to fit well for someone else.

      It seems to me that there are two polar opposite approaches
      and most people sit somewhere in-between.

      One the one extreme, you have the complete MERCENARY
      who's only in Internet Marketing for the money and doesn't
      care much about anyone else but themeselves.

      Then on the other side, you have what I'd call the MARTYR
      who is only focused on helping other people - even at the
      expense of their own needs (and is in fact scared sh!tless
      to sell).

      Like I say, most people fall somewhere in between. For example,
      you can be a mercenary with a desire to help others.

      I prefer the MISSIONARY approach where you help others
      AND you also get paid handsomely in return for the value
      you create for others.

      At the end of the day, choose the approach that fits who
      you are and the people you want to focus on.

      Dedicated to mutual success,

      Shaun
      Signature

      .

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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi Shaun,

        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post


        I prefer the MISSIONARY

        Shaun
        I didn't want to bring it up, but you never struck me as that type...

        Like I say, most people fall somewhere in between.

        At the end of the day, choose the approach that fits
        Sensible advice.



        Sorry, just had an attack of the Finbarr Saunders.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sylviane
    I have to say that I am always shocked to see that some internet marketers are so stupid and inconsiderate at the same time. You have to be, when you are sending an email every single day to the same list (or more). That's ridiculous and I am questioning what's in the head of such marketers.

    What it shows to me is really a lack of intelligence and that would make anyone question what they are selling. Really, if you are doing this, STOP, you do look stupid!
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    People are all giving their opinions of what list owners should do based on their results. FOR THEIR LIST.

    But most of you have trained your lists to respond to things that way. It is not as simple as more or less emails are better. In many ways its a chicken and egg kinda thing.

    Does your list respond better to offers because thats what works, or is it because you have made it unappealing for others to be on your list. Thus the only people left are the ones who want offers everyday.

    They key is to be consistent with whatever method you choose. That way you attract a certain type of people to your list and you weed out the others.

    Lets be honest, most of us know a lot of people who have made money using both methods. But I think it's more about consistency than it is about 1 method actually being superior to the others in all or even most cases.
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  • Profile picture of the author MBDirect
    Ditto, WillR - thanks for this thread. A-Promo-A-Day says a lot about the sender and what he thinks of his customers, doesn't it.

    Problem is not so much deleting these abusers, but, as you noted, deleting those you'd rather keep following for updates they've promised. There are so many abusers that as they mount up, it's hard to remember who you wanted to follow, resulting in the desirable ones being thrown out with the bathwater.

    MBDirect
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      Reminds me of the saying: "Anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster is a maniac."

      I mail my list about once a week. It works well for me and my list appears to like it. Most of the time I send out a notification about a new product that I have out, a reminder of some of my older products, and/or some general tips or advice.

      I don't have a huge list, but my list appears to enjoy hearing from me. I don't have fancy headlines, or gimmicks to try and get people to open my e-mail. I put right in the subject line what list it is ([Shay's List]) and they can see that it is from me.

      I can't say that this would work for everyone. I know that there are marketers that mail every day. I know that there are some that mail more than once a day. Some mail a few times a week.

      They don't have my list.

      The people that are on my list seem to enjoy and appreciate the frequency and the content of my e-mails. What more can I ask for?

      I look at having a list like being in a relationship.

      If I am with my significant other, and what we are doing keeps us happy, then what does it matter what everybody else is doing?

      If we like to go on date nights once a month, and we're both happy with that and we enjoy it and it keeps our relationship the way that we like for it to be, we aren't going to change it and start going on date nights every week just because the couple down the street says that that's what they do and it works for them so we should do the same thing.

      The same thing goes for my list.

      I have a list. I am very happy with the frequency I mail my list, and my list is responsive and enjoys the e-mails that I send. I get a good response whenever I send out a product link. There are times when I send out a recommendation for a product that isn't mine and I don't even use an affiliate link. (I don't say that to make me sound noble - it's just a fact.)

      So if I'm happy and I'm making good money from what I do - and my list is happy and they're staying on my list - then I'm really not worried about what other people do.

      JMHO and YMMV
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

        Reminds me of the saying: "Anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster is a maniac."
        Shay, I have absolutely no problem with anything you said apart from the above quote....which is a fact. I know.

        You obviously drive too slow. :p
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        • Profile picture of the author ShayB
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          Shay, I have absolutely no problem with anything you said apart from the above quote....which is a fact. I know.

          You obviously drive too slow. :p
          Is that a nice way of saying I'm an idiot?
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            what kind of asshats would unsubscribe from your list because you wished them a Happy Thanksgiving?
            that's the kind of people I personally wouldn't want on my list anyway.
            Doesn't it depend on when the email was sent? Every year I get marketing email ON Thanksgiving, Christmas Day, Easter Sunday....it crosses a line for me and I often unsubscribe from those lists.

            Occasionally, I get "sermon" emails from list owners who mistakenly think being on their list gives them the right to talk about their religion in their holiday wish - it doesn't. Thanksgiving Day means nothing to people outside the U.S. - Christmas greetings to people on your list who do not celebrate Christmas is another problem. Last week I unsubscribed from a mailing list when the marketer chose to promote his political candidate - again, not acceptable. I didn't sign up for that.

            If you are building a list to promote your business - safer to stick to business. Nothing wrong with adding "have a great holiday" to an email sent before a holiday - but making a holiday an excuse for an email blurs the lines between business and personal to me.

            kay
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            • Profile picture of the author ShayB
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              Occasionally, I get "sermon" emails from list owners who mistakenly think being on their list gives them the right to talk about their religion in their holiday wish - it doesn't.
              kay
              I agree. The exception would be when someone is blatant about their religion being a part of their business philosophy and uses it as part of their platform. Then I guess it would be expected.
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            • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              Doesn't it depend on when the email was sent? Every year I get marketing email ON Thanksgiving, Christmas Day, Easter Sunday....it crosses a line for me and I often unsubscribe from those lists.

              Occasionally, I get "sermon" emails from list owners who mistakenly think being on their list gives them the right to talk about their religion in their holiday wish - it doesn't. Thanksgiving Day means nothing to people outside the U.S. - Christmas greetings to people on your list who do not celebrate Christmas is another problem. Last week I unsubscribed from a mailing list when the marketer chose to promote his political candidate - again, not acceptable. I didn't sign up for that.

              If you are building a list to promote your business - safer to stick to business. Nothing wrong with adding "have a great holiday" to an email sent before a holiday - but making a holiday an excuse for an email blurs the lines between business and personal to me.

              kay
              Kay, you're right, and I was thinking of retracting my post because I was mulling this over before you posted, (I decided to edit my original post) that possibly the reason the people unsubscribed from his list on Thanksgiving was for one of the reasons you describe above. Not cool, but I can't make assumptions as that's not cool either.

              Like you, I never bother people on holidays. I'll do a blog post wishing everyone a happy holiday, or I may send an e-card to thank them for their business as well, but a day or two before the holiday.

              Heck, most Canadians don't even like to give up their weekends, never mind statutory holidays. :p
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            • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              Last week I unsubscribed from a mailing list when the marketer chose to promote his political candidate - again, not acceptable. I didn't sign up for that.
              I unsubbed from a few who chose 9/11/11 to wax eloquently about their lack of understanding of what that day was about. I'm sure they thought it was a good day to show how compassionate they can be if it means future dollars may come their way. But they forgot the 'tacky factor' counts in the equation as well.

              Here's something to think about and I can tell you this from years of owning a brick and mortar retail store...there are times when people are expecting a "sales experience" and walking into a store is one of them. It could be the same with your email list.

              If you walk into a store looking to purchase a DVD player and the salesperson thinks telling you about their grandmother's gas attacks will be a good 'bonding exercise' instead of focusing on the reason you walked into the store, you'll be late for the door.

              It's the same with your email list. They have expectations, and if one of those expectations is 'you' remaining the salesperson who helps them make purchasing decisions, crossing the 'friendship line' may backfire unless your sub is either in the mood, or you've built that expectation into the relationship correctly.

              ~Bill
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
            Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

            Is that a nice way of saying I'm an idiot?
            Of course not! Just my strange sense of humour.
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            Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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            • Profile picture of the author ShayB
              Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

              Of course not! Just my strange sense of humour.
              LMAO I was teasing, luv. :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
        Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

        Reminds me of the saying: "Anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster is a maniac."
        Yea! George Carlin had a funny bit about it...

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  • Profile picture of the author fenixpro
    Wow! lot's of great posts for experienced list marketers! A great place for someone new to the list building approach to snoop around.

    I don't have anywhere near the experience of others, but my experience AND opinion is that it's totally relative to the list and the list owner. They are doing what works for them. Maybe they could be doing it better, maybe not. But it works for them. If it didn't, they would change it, and I'm sure all of you have through the years. Testing, Testing, Testing.

    If someone doesn't like what I send to them via my list, they will leave. If they like it, they will stay. If they want it, they'll buy, if they don't, they won't.

    No let me consistently take action and test this again again and again and I'll be where you all are - each with your own systems and successes - many with commonalities, but many with differences as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Well you sound like a pro to me

      Originally Posted by fenixpro View Post

      Wow! lot's of great posts for experienced list marketers! A great place for someone new to the list building approach to snoop around.

      I don't have anywhere near the experience of others, but my experience AND opinion is that it's totally relative to the list and the list owner. They are doing what works for them. Maybe they could be doing it better, maybe not. But it works for them. If it didn't, they would change it, and I'm sure all of you have through the years. Testing, Testing, Testing.

      If someone doesn't like what I send to them via my list, they will leave. If they like it, they will stay. If they want it, they'll buy, if they don't, they won't.

      No let me consistently take action and test this again again and again and I'll be where you all are - each with your own systems and successes - many with commonalities, but many with differences as well.
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      • Profile picture of the author fenixpro
        Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

        Well you sound like a pro to me
        Thanks Jason!

        No, not a pro compared to you guys - but I have intelligence and real world business experience - which allows me to masquerade and come off as one

        My goal right now actually is to build fast and furiously, so maybe in a couple of months I can proclaim my 'pro-ness'
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    I have been on Jason Parker's list for some time. Admittedly I have not bought enough from him to hurt his bottom line if I unsub today. I very seldom buy any program and only occasionally buy services and software.

    Why do I stay on his list?

    Because I try to be a student of IM. He is a hell of a teacher. Not even as much directly as how he runs his campaigns. His funnel process.

    Being just another hillbilly from the Ga mountains ... what do I know? But

    I have been known to build a list or two. To the point of ... you won't ever get a product of mine unless you get it via a list or the product was designed to get you on my list. You also might want to consider in a years time I won't send out 5 affiliate offers (to buyer list) .. just seems counter productive for a product creator to send "their" list to other creators.


    It is also good to know I have just started building a list again in the IM arena but just last year I deleted a list of well over 20,000 IM types because I thought I would be happy away from the niche .. but I am not because I love the .... I don't really know what I love so much about it but it just seems to fit me to the point of calling my name when I am away lol.

    Buyers are automatically funneled to their own list and are treated a little different than freebie list members. These people are very valuable to me. They are not sent $97 offers. They are sent $497 and higher offers.

    This list may get 5 emails (one a day) from me with nothing but content designed to warm, excite, help them understand the need they might not yet know they have. There is always a buy link in the sig. Once they are warmed .. then the sales pitch. This list seldom has over a weeks worth of autoresponder series emails in it ... the emails sent to this list are usually about what I am trying to move at the moment. They could be for coaching or the class could be full and I might need to sell something that requires less of my own time at the moment.

    The freebie list is different. I will send content and a couple of freebies but have no intention of keeping this "prospect" on a freebie list .. they need to be on the buyers list.

    After a brief wine and dine I send them a low dollar hot report offer. I treat these low entry products the same as the higher end stuff just instead of 5 or so emails the freebie list is not getting warmed near as much.

    If they have not been placed on the buyer list in 60 days they go to the churn and burn affiliate list for the fact I couldn't convert them .. they are not my target ... if they go elsewhere .. so be it,

    Everything is autoresponder series .. at the end of 90 days the freebie seeker runs the series and no longer receives emails .. about every ten days I delete those who no longer receive emails or are in the finished category.

    I tried the best buddy approach to emailing for a while and figured out .. those who spend the least are the biggest pains in the a$$. The higher end buyers are pretty low maintenance.

    I started IM for the fact I like doing things my way .. one or two disgruntled freebie seekers or even buyers will not change a plan that test have already proven. Only when I have more leaving than coming in do I re-access the plan and honestly .. it has been a long time since I have been forced to make a change.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
    Very interesting discussion. I've been email marketing outside the IM niche for some time but am quite new to doing it in the IM niche. I've been actively engaging in email marketing in the IM niche for the past few months and it's definitely quite different than the health/beauty niche.

    Everyone says they want value and don't want pitch after pitch of affiliate promo's... yet I have found, like Mark Hess and Jason Parker mentioned above, that those "value emails" are the emails that get the least amount of opens and the most unsubscribes and spam complaints. Maybe it's the content or the subject lines in those cases? I'm not sure, just have to continue to test I guess.

    Others have mentioned that marketers are like women in the fact that what they think they want is not what they really want, and I do tend to agree with that. Personally I am on several lists just to see what new products are out there and to see how they market themselves. I barely buy products, maybe 1 every few months and it's normally software or a service. But I like to see mostly products from the guys that email me. I don't really want the "value" that everyone else seems to *think* they want.

    I will say that the products I do promote I do think are valuable. I don't personally go through each one, because I just don't have the time. But I will promote a product if I think it will help people. I try to put myself in a position as a beginner or someone who might need help with a certain aspect of their business, and if the product fits then I will send out a "heads up" about it. Not alot of hype...just what the product is and what it does.

    And that recommendation will be based on what I know of the marketer and what the product does. I don't recommend the B.S. one-click get rich stuff...I stick to tools, services, and coaching and training programs mostly.
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  • Profile picture of the author ShawnSells
    As long as the email product pitch is in the niche I'm interested in, I don't have a problem with it. If I'm not in the mood to read it, I just delete it. It's no loss either way. I had no expectation I would be given a content lesson everyday or anything, when I subscribed.
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