No Amazon State People - Could They Do This?

29 replies
Hey Warriors!

I have a quick question...

I have something I sell where my list members preferably would have an Amazon account. Some live in the states where they can't do Amazon anymore - so I wondered:

Would there be any restrictions against this scenario:

A marketer who presently isn't even involved in Amazon, but who lives in a state where it's allowed, partners with someone who lives in a state where they can't. The first guy signs up for an Amazon account and uses the site of the partner to sign up.

Both parties have access to log in and see earnings and when payout comes, the first one sends a check for half the amount or whatever amount they decide on - to the other. Maybe even a courtesy payment like 20% or whatever.

Just curious if I'm not thinking about something that could throw a wrench in this - aside from the obvious "gotta trust the other person" situation.

Tiff
#amazon #people #state
  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    Restrictions as far as from Amazon itself?

    I don't see anything wrong with that approach. The "Trust factor" would be my biggest concern!

    As far as Amazon there's no way they could find out, unless you tell them.
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    • Profile picture of the author fin
      Seems more deceitful than copy and pasting to me, lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
      Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

      Restrictions as far as from Amazon itself?

      I don't see anything wrong with that approach. The "Trust factor" would be my biggest concern!

      As far as Amazon there's no way they could find out, unless you tell them.
      Hey Kal!

      Even if Amazon "finds out" - that's what I want to know. Would they have a problem with two people sharing an account in a partner situation where one lives in state and the other doesn't but they both share ownership of the site? Obviously it would be registered in one person's name, unless they form an official business - but that's a good idea, too!

      What would work best? Corporation? LLC? DBA?

      I don't want to suggest anything where if Amazon "finds out," all their hard work is gone. I just don't know how Amazon would view this sort of partnership.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
        Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

        Hey Kal!

        Even if Amazon "finds out" - that's what I want to know. Would they have a problem with two people sharing an account in a partner situation where one lives in state and the other doesn't but they both share ownership of the site? Obviously it would be registered in one person's name, unless they form an official business - but that's a good idea, too!

        What would work best? Corporation? LLC? DBA?

        I don't want to suggest anything where if Amazon "finds out," all their hard work is gone. I just don't know how Amazon would view this sort of partnership.
        Ok this might have occurred to you already but I will throw it in anyway,

        Based on previous experience " ebay stuff" I have found out that contacting the company itself would be the best thing to do, and works well most of the time, they are people too, so talk to them and be on the safe-side, they make the call at the end of the day.
        You also might not want to volunteer too much personal info.
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        • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
          Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

          Ok this might have occurred to you already but I will throw it in anyway,

          Based on previous experience " ebay stuff" I have found out that contacting the company itself would be the best thing to do, and works well most of the time, they are people too, so talk to them and be on the safe-side, they make the call at the end of the day.
          You also might not want to volunteer too much personal info.
          I am Got a message into them too. I wanted a well rounded answer and there may be other non legal issues that Warriors know of - similar to the trust factor of the partner.

          I'll trust Amazon to let me know about their position. Will let y'all know when I find out.
          Tiff
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  • Profile picture of the author myob
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    Just curious if I'm not thinking about something that could throw a wrench in this - aside from the obvious "gotta trust the other person" situation.)

    Among several other wrenches would be taxes and direct violation of Amazon's TOS, as well as nexus state laws. The Amazon affiliate would be responsible for all income taxes (Federal and state if applicable.) In addition, the partner receiving a percentage will also be liable for any taxes on income received, and the state sales tax. It's not a good plan IMO without some competent specialist tax or incorporating advice.
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    • The first guy signs up for an Amazon account and uses the site of the partner to sign up.

      Oh, I'm sure that would work.

      After all, Amazon employees are totally incapable of doing a simple WHOIS lookup to see who owns the site.

      You know what happens when Amazon finds out you're cheating? They close the account and keep the money.

      Astounded you would even consider recommending this to people who trust you.

      fLufF
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        There is such a thing as private registration for domains. DERP!

        I dunno fluffy, but why must you be so snide towards people! I don't blame Tiffany at all for telling you to (you know what).

        Your post offered no valuable input and only served to reflect negatively upon you from my perspective.

        Tiffany,

        You can form a company, LLC or whatever in any state. The easy way is to form one in Texas then register it as a foreign company in any other state you wish to have it do business in. You'd normally do this by going to the state to get it registered. As mentioned in a previous post you'll need an address, but once that's all done you should be able to conduct business with Amazon as an associate with out any hassles as the business.

        Of course there are tax implications so check to see which states don't have a sales tax if any. LOL Then see if they are also allowed states for Amazon associates.





        Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

        The first guy signs up for an Amazon account and uses the site of the partner to sign up.

        Oh, I'm sure that would work.

        After all, Amazon employees are totally incapable of doing a simple WHOIS lookup to see who owns the site.

        You know what happens when Amazon finds out you're cheating? They close the account and keep the money.

        Astounded you would even consider recommending this to people who trust you.

        fLufF
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      • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
        I've just read carefully what Tiff wrote, and at no point can I see where she has she advocated trying to cheat Amazon. As far as I can tell she was asking a perfectly legitimate question!

        Kim

        Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

        The first guy signs up for an Amazon account and uses the site of the partner to sign up.

        Oh, I'm sure that would work.

        After all, Amazon employees are totally incapable of doing a simple WHOIS lookup to see who owns the site.

        You know what happens when Amazon finds out you're cheating? They close the account and keep the money.

        Astounded you would even consider recommending this to people who trust you.

        fLufF
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    Just curious if I'm not thinking about something that could throw a wrench in this - aside from the obvious "gotta trust the other person" situation.
    Aside from the obvious "gotta trust the other person" situation?

    How about aside from circumventing the laws of a State in which a person lives.

    I'm not sure aiding and abetting folks to disregard/circumvent laws passed by the States they reside in is a wise move. In fact, all it would take is a law making that a felony to get and keep a lot of those folks in hot water.

    If you think "it's not nice to fool Mother Nature", just see what happens when you get caught fooling Big Brother.

    ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author Nicola Lane
    How about the two of them form a company - which is based wherever affiliates are allowed.

    Then the company does whatever it likes - with the two people being shareholders/employers.

    Of course the specifics will depend on the place that the company is formed in.

    Hope that helps
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    • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
      Originally Posted by Nicola Lane View Post

      How about the two of them form a company - which is based wherever affiliates are allowed.

      Then the company does whatever it likes - with the two people being shareholders/employers.

      Of course the specifics will depend on the place that the company is formed in.

      Hope that helps
      Right - this is sort of the situation I'm talking about. Not just "using the other person's account" without a real partnership - I'm talking about an actual partner situation where funds are shared.

      Would you need to officially form a corporation/LLC type company or would just a basic partnership work?

      IE: I have a business partner in Japan for one of my sites. The funds come to me, and I pay him from the corporation funds for his share and taxes are legally filed, etc.

      I'm not endorsing anything that circumvents the law (so STFU Fluff) - I'm asking if it WOULD be a violation of anything either in terms of Amazon TOS or even in terms of state tax issues, etc.

      That's what the forum is for, correct? To get help from Warriors and to offer it when you can?

      If I don't know the answer to something, I find out first BEFORE I go and recommend it haphazardly to my list who trusts me.

      Tiff
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Crim
    OR you could just ask amazon.

    This is sort of like those legal help threads where trademarks were used in their URL. It is totally irrelevant what answers you get her Tiff, Amazon will do whatever they want even if larry, curly and moe tell you different and expand their reasoning with "with out any doubt Amazon will not have any problem with this..."

    Then amazon cancels the accounts even after you asure people on your list or in your product that this wont happen. It's the google SEO advice situation here, you have no control over 3rd party services things change without a moments notice.

    Honestly, giving advice to get around situations like this is a bad idea. At best you could experience a black eye to your reputation at worst possible legal problems.

    Things like this to me are similar to advice about how to evade taxes and setting up numbered accounts in other countries to "protect" assets.

    My take on it anyway.

    - T
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  • Profile picture of the author Halcyon
    I posted about this very thing a few weeks back. For people based in the US, there is nothing wrong or illegal about setting up a legitimate business in any state of their choosing. Here is a copy of the posting.
    ------
    "There's nothing shady about a corporation existing in state separate from its owners. Happens all the time. Where people run into problems is when they haven't created a separate entity for their business, they start co-mingling funds and accounts, or their reasons for setting up the business were fraudulent.

    I believe it to be imperative that any serious business owner incorporate or create an LLC and if you run a legitimate business it can be domiciled in any state you wish. This should be done whether Amazon is nipping at your profits or not.

    Any state you incorporate in will require that you have a registered agent domiciled in the state. This can be accomplished by maintaining a mailbox in the state (not a PO BOX) this needs to be a physical address. The easiest thing to do is to get UPS Store mailbox. Make sure your name and the corporation name are on it. There are other companies that do this and almost all of them allow you to handle the process via mail. I mentioned UPS store because it's the most popular.

    I advise against the cheaper route of using a friend's address, it's rather unprofessional to involve friends in business matters for no other purpose than to save a few bucks.

    You should already have a business bank account but if you don't get one. With the popularity of internet banking (think ALLY) where the bank account is set up is not nearly as important as long as they operate in the state where your business is registered.

    If you don't have an employer identification number - get one ( once again if you're serious about running your business this should already be taken care of)

    You also want to make sure that your Amazon account lists your business and not you personally. Again, I advise this for all of your business affiliations.

    If you're not comfortable setting up your business yourself, there are tons of companies that will handle it for a reasonable fee. The important thing is it's done correctly, completely and legally. The devil is definitely in the details.
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Ask Amazon?

    Why in the world would any sane person do that?
    As stated above I did.

    I'm asking Warriors about a myriad of issues with this scenario - aside from the trust factor. IE: Some people have implied it's an ethics issue. I'd love to hear WHY - not just a simple statement that it's not above the board.

    Informing and edu-ma-cating myself
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Ms Dow,
      (so STFU Fluff)
      This was unnecessary.

      I have lately begun treating that sort of thing as though the words were typed out. Might as well be, eh?


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author fin
        Tiff,

        Ethics aside: I don't think it would look very good to your list, going to the bother of thinking up some scheme to make more sales.

        At least your thinking outside the box. Maybe you could try something that might not backfire on you.
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    • Profile picture of the author PLRExpress
      I did once ask Amazon a question about this - not about two different people, but with a company formed within the UK and a partner in a state where they weren't allowed to be an Amazon affiliate. They basically said to read their terms and conditions and didn't really elaborate any more than that. I don't think that they wanted to comment in case I tried to use that as an argument against any problems that they may have if I did actually go ahead with it.

      Turns out that I didn't do it anyway but I personally don't see the problem with it. I know a couple of people that have VAs in states that don't allow Amazon affiliates but they still create affiliate links for the person that owns the affiliate account. I don't really see it as being any different to that. The taxes are still paid by the person that owns the account and it's really up to them who they takes care of their business tasks.

      In fact, it's very much like how Squidoo operates. They take collect the Amazon commission from the modules within the pages of the users and then they give users a cut. It's Squidoo that's collecting the payment from Amazon and then giving it to their users. If Amazon allow this, I can't see them having a problem with what you've stated above.
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      • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Ms Dow,This was unnecessary.

        I have lately begun treating that sort of thing as though the words were typed out. Might as well be, eh?


        Paul
        No problem, Paul. I understand you need to clamp down on that type of behavior. I'll simply ignore her from now on here and say whatever I have to say about it on my blog.

        Originally Posted by fin View Post

        Tiff,

        Ethics aside: I don't think it would look very good to your list, going to the bother of thinking up some scheme to make more sales.

        At least your thinking outside the box. Maybe you could try something that might not backfire on you.
        Hey Fin! glad you re-commented - curious why you view the partnership arrangement as a "scheme?" Because to me, that word refers to something unethical. It very may well be, which is why I'm genuinely asking for your input.

        Not sure how this could backfire on me. I've been asked what options non Amazon people have, and now I'm going out to find options - which include things like Share A Sale, Commission Junction, etc.

        This is one business partnership arrangement I want to find out about from all angles - Amazon TOS, Tax legalities, and yes, ethics.

        Ethics to me, usually involves hurting someone. IE: like you mentioned above with copy and pasting someone else's content - it hurts the original author who got stolen from.

        With hiding money overseas as someone else mentioned - it hurts the tax revenue, etc.

        So I'm curious about how this situation hurts whoever so Ill know whether or not it's a viable possibility.

        Originally Posted by NathanDevlin View Post

        I did once ask Amazon a question about this - not about two different people, but with a company formed within the UK and a partner in a state where they weren't allowed to be an Amazon affiliate. They basically said to read their terms and conditions and didn't really elaborate any more than that. I don't think that they wanted to comment in case I tried to use that as an argument against any problems that they may have if I did actually go ahead with it.

        Turns out that I didn't do it anyway but I personally don't see the problem with it. I know a couple of people that have VAs in states that don't allow Amazon affiliates but they still create affiliate links for the person that owns the affiliate account. I don't really see it as being any different to that. The taxes are still paid by the person that owns the account and it's really up to them who they takes care of their business tasks.

        In fact, it's very much like how Squidoo operates. They take collect the Amazon commission from the modules within the pages of the users and then they give users a cut. It's Squidoo that's collecting the payment from Amazon and then giving it to their users. If Amazon allow this, I can't see them having a problem with what you've stated above.
        Ah they may not respond then Nathan. Thanks for letting me know! I agree about taxes being paid, etc. True re: Squidoo too.

        Thanks for your input!
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    • Profile picture of the author Halcyon
      Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

      ... I'd love to hear WHY - not just a simple statement that it's not above the board.

      Informing and edu-ma-cating myself
      There's nothing wrong with a little edu-ma-cation.

      For your original question, let's put aside the ethics issue and address the "stupid factor". When giving advice that requires complex mental analysis/evaluation you must factor in the people that don't/can't follow the directions as provided.

      If you advise people toward a course of action that if done incorrectly could have the slightest hint of impropriety, you run into people who will do it wrong - get into trouble- blame you for it.

      I understand that for WAHM and other part-timers, setting up an LLC or incorporating could be daunting but it's safer for them than "hooking up" with someone in another state.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Ms Dow,
        I understand you need to clamp down on that type of behavior.
        No, YOU need to clamp down on it. You and every other person here who values rational conversation. Or else, when you see lunatics frothing at the mouth and spouting filth or lies, YOU have no grounds to correct or complain.
        I'll simply ignore her from now on here and say whatever I have to say about it on my blog.
        That is none of my business.

        As far as what you say here... Yeah. Fluff can be abrasive at times. So what? This ain't kindergarten. Before you go off on her for it, ask yourself: Is this really my stone to throw?

        Ain't mine. And I don't think it's yours, either.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Ms Dow,No, YOU need to clamp down on it.
          Which I said I would I was referring to your mention of having to regard it as totally written out.

          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          That is none of my business.

          As far as what you say here... Yeah. Fluff can be abrasive at times. So what? This ain't kindergarten. Before you go off on her for it, ask yourself: Is this really my stone to throw?

          Ain't mine. And I don't think it's yours, either.


          Paul
          I totally agree w/it not being kindergarten, which is why I wouldn't think that my comment in response would be hard to handle for her.

          No worries - I'll ignore.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Ms Dow,
            I totally agree w/it not being kindergarten, which is why I wouldn't think that my comment in response would be hard to handle for her.
            If she were the only one reading this, I'd ignore it and assume she could give as good as she gets. She's hardly a fragile person.

            The example is the concern. We've had a few higher-profile people using that sort of comment recently, and it's started to expand. Including folks who really did type it all out (irrelevant, but tacky), and some who think GTFO is an appropriate instruction for one member to give to another.

            One fellow got banned for a while for that just last week.

            Snarkasm is one thing. Outright profanity is another thing entirely.


            Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              Ms Dow,If she were the only one reading this, I'd ignore it and assume she could give as good as she gets. She's hardly a fragile person.

              The example is the concern. We've had a few higher-profile people using that sort of comment recently, and it's started to expand. Including folks who really did type it all out (irrelevant, but tacky), and some who think GTFO is an appropriate instruction for one member to give to another.

              One fellow got banned for a while for that just last week.

              Snarkasm is one thing. Outright profanity is another thing entirely.


              Paul
              Gotcha I'll wash my dirty mouth out with soap today and be G rated from this point on Well, maybe PG-13 LOL!

              Thanks, Paul - I won't give you anymore grief with my foul mouth. Pinky swear!
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