I'm thinking of starting a "PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS" website!

12 years ago

I don't really see the point in a website like this. Results can be faked just as easily as screenshots. Besides, you could give the exact same system to two people and both will ALWAYS get different results so I'm not sure what this sets out to prove? Even if the product creator is able to prove their results it does not mean others will be able to replicate their success.

My opinion, buy products based on common sense NOT on results or income claimed by other people -- even if those income claims were real it is fairly irrelevant to you.

Just my opinion though.

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Martyn Wilson

12 years ago

Thanks for your reply. You are absolutely right and I know that it would be impossible to verify income claims.

It was a little tongue in cheek suggestion rather than a serious business plan. I just wished we could sideline all the BS and pretenders.

Thanks
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WillR

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Martyn Wilson

Thanks for your reply. You are absolutely right and I know that it would be impossible to verify income claims.

It was a little tongue in cheek suggestion rather than a serious business plan. I just wished we could sideline all the BS and pretenders.

I don't think it will be long before income claims are prohibited by the FTC - I see that happening sooner rather than later. That should level the playing field a little bit.

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Gerald Arno

Banned 12 years ago

Well, while this might be on your mind, it will never prevent spam of this form.

There will always be people out there trying to make capital with fake proof. The question is, are you stupid enough to buy into it or are you smart enough not to buy into it?

In general, it´s a lot easier to sell a service or product to a newbie than it is to sell the same service to a full time online marketer.

Your focus should be on getting the information that improves your level of self improvement which ultimately leads to improving your income.

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traffic2

12 years ago

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Martyn Wilson 12 years ago

Thanks Daniel, I had not heard of that site before. I will take a look.
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Martyn Wilson

12 years ago

Very sound advice. But how do you seperate the pretenders from the real thing? how do you tell the difference? Even the real marketers make income claims. It's just a shame that the pretenders give such a bad name to the industry.

This used to be the case with offline marketing, but the internet has now taken all the attention.

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Daniel Clark

12 years ago

Just chipping in on the review side of things and how alot of reviewers are just out to make a quick buck but in the case of dbpmarketing.com this guy offers his honest opnion, his site setup is slick and he has alot of readers.
For example his SEO Link Monster review is eye opening, he was predicting it to be mediocre at best even before launch just through his case studies.

He's even said he would make more money if he bigged up every product but he chooses not to

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WillR

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Clark

Just chipping in on the review side of things and how alot of reviewers are just out to make a quick buck but in the case of dbpmarketing.com this guy offers his honest opnion, his site setup is slick and he has alot of readers.
For example his SEO Link Monster review is eye opening, he was predicting it to be mediocre at best even before launch just through his case studies.

It's still only ONE person's opinion though, isn't it. That's the thing with reviews, they are just ONE persons opinion and each and every one of us have different expectations. For that reason you are best to purchase the product yourself and make up your own mind. Obviously reviews can help but ultimately the decision is up to you.

There have been plenty of times I have heard rave reviews about a product only to find out for myself the product was less than mediocre. Reviews are always to be taken with a grain of salt.

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RichardDean

12 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

It's still only ONE person's opinion though, isn't it. That's the thing with reviews, they are just ONE persons opinion and each and every one of us have different expectations. For that reason you are best to purchase the product yourself and make up your own mind. Obviously reviews can help but ultimately the decision is up to you.

There have been plenty of times I have heard rave reviews about a product only to find out for myself the product was less than mediocre. Reviews are always to be taken with a grain of salt.

If the review is true and honest it is true... no matter how you want to try and hide behind a product that just does not work or is hyped so much to try to sell.

I have challenged WillR before and he has never taken me up on it.

Nothing against WillR at all he just don't see why.. so I respect that.

Pick on Amazon because they have lots of reviews to look at... I have seen reviews on same product that very from one star to 5 star how does someone give it a 5 star and someone give it a one star...

When things are mass produced Tangible items they are not always made the same, they have flaws in workmanship or a screw missing corrupted... then some are made exact perfect.

Example... Keurig coffee maker I have one and no problems with mine.

I have seen reviews that put down the maker because the k-cups cost to much... this has nothing to do with the coffee maker... either the coffermaker does what it says or it don't.. can you put in coffee and it makes it to what it says on the box...

The k-cup review belongs on the k-cup order page not the coffee maker page.

People seem to add stuff to reviews that have nothing to do with the actual product..

I expect the Keurig to brew one cup of coffee at a temp it says it does.

So what WillR is saying each person it is there own expectations is true.

So lets say the Keurig says it will make one cup of 6oz coffee in one minute.. they hype it up and say it will make a pot of coffee in 30 seconds

Now I buy it and it does not make a pot in 30 seconds now we have a complaint... that is the problem.

So back to IM what WillR is forgetting all downloads are made the same so everyone is the same. You eliminate mass production errors like on tangible products.

All you have is the package details (sales page) it says get 1000 subscribers in 24 hours.

You do what it says add your link to this website and you get no subscribers.

You can't have 10 people follow the instructions and have 10 different outcomes.

If you do your product is incomplete and needs to be looked at and fixed. Until everyone can get the same results or close to it.

So what WillR says is each has their own expectations, they need to look at the sales page and claims only to make a review.

You don't see on the Keurig box anything about coffee cost... So if you review the coffee maker on it's cost of the k-cup is unfair to the product it's self.

You see reviews in WSO's and there is not even time to try the product how can they give a real review... they can't until they try it.

Next time you see a review that says I glanced at it and it looks like good info just cross that review off it don't count.

Your going to find most reviews are just that, they never even tried the product.

But what WillR is not looking at you (OP) wants a real review site where the product is put into action... and this does count if you set up the review on points made in the sales page. if it says work 30 minutes a day you better have a stop watch and only work 30 minutes a day in your review.

It takes a long time to do real reviews of products.

Richard

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traffic2

12 years ago

Anyone can easily fake a screen shot and edit it with photoshop. I agree that making money claims may help with selling products to newbies. However there are honest Marketers and those are the guys that last in the product launching game. The guys that are in it for the long haul will only back products that they believe in and will add value to the buyers. I have been Marketing full time for many years and developing my own tools that I use everyday but have never shared them. Me being new to the forum I feel that I need to provide as much proof as possible so I have decided to not take screen shots of proof, but I will do a live login to my Adsense account and show real time proof of earnings.

Thanks
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Martyn Wilson 12 years ago

traffic2, I wish there were more people like you willing to step up and be counted. The live login sounds like a great idea. I will be watching your posts with interest.
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Martyn Wilson

12 years ago

I have just been reading a post by highhopes about having a telephone number on websites. Having contact details other than just an email address is certainly one way to gain trust with your customers. I wonder how many pretenders would supply contact details?

Thanks
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traffic2 12 years ago

Im pretty sure that a phone number would weed out all the pretenders. A pretender can convey virtually, like he is a marketing genius. Get him on the phone with a "Real" Seasoned Marketer and could easily talk circles around him.
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RichardDean

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Martyn Wilson

I have just been reading a post by highhopes about having a telephone number on websites. Having contact details other than just an email address is certainly one way to gain trust with your customers. I wonder how many pretenders would supply contact details?

If a website does not have a persons name on it... JVZOO does not say who owns it... It's 3 people but they kinda hide it... why use a system or a product that you do not know.

If a website hides behind hidden domain name... (Private Domain) they don't need to be private if it is a real business... don't fall for the excuse I get spam if it is not private... Untrue

No contact form on a website... don;t buy

No about page.... don't buy

If there is no way to contact them... don't buy

Why would anyone do business with a website like this?

Don't buy another product unless you can see without jumping thru hoops who is the owner...

Email them and see if they respond...
ask them for a phone number in the email...
ask them for a address....
contact the people who leave testimonials...

On a 7.00 product or a 700.00 product you should treat them the same.

A real business will have all this info ready to give you... don't buy another product without this stuff and most important you follow through with contacting them.

Stop buying until... they will either give the info or they will not sell anything.

Richard

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E. Brian Rose

12 years ago

Originally Posted by RichardDean

JVZOO does not say who owns it.

Richard

I have responded to you at least twice about this, but you keep acting as if I haven't. Here is the first time I responded here on Warrior Forum:

Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose

We've always been transparent about this. The site was founded by Bryan Zimmerman, Chad Casselman, and myself. It is owned by a corporation consisting of several shareholders in the marketing and technology spaces. Chad is employed as the lead programmer. Zim and I are employed in operations and marketing, respectively. We have other employees in the programming and support departments, as well.

You also posted the same question on the JVZoo forum and I answered you right away with the same information.

Shoot me an email when you post the question again and I will respond again.

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RichardDean

12 years ago

Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose

I have responded to you at least twice about this, but you keep acting as if I haven't. Here is the first time I responded here on Warrior Forum:

You also posted the same question on the JVZoo forum and I answered you right away with the same information.

Shoot me an email when you post the question again and I will respond again.

I did not say you did not respond, just to let everyone know Brian did respond to the answer I asked who owns JVzoo... And I do business with JVZoo.

The point is if you read the above is that why do business with someone who hides... and to contact people before, either email them, call them ask in a support forum.

You see I took action JVZoo did not have this info on there website So I contacted them and found out.

Nothing against You or JVZoo.

Do your homework before you do business online... as you see I do what I say.

I don't just make stuff up or theory or hype I do it...

thanks Brian for proving my point

Richard

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RichardDean

12 years ago

It's a good ideal... People who say it won't work are selling stuff that just don't work.

I see some talk about income claims it's not about that... You don't need income claims to sell something that works... it's about something that works or it don't work!

On a bottle of water it does not have to say I will quench your thirst with screen shots and testimonials... it works!

If you sell me a report that says get 1000 subscribers in 24 hours.

It says add your website link to this site... I add it to the site and I don't get any subscribers... Then your product does not do what it says.

You call them on it and and they try to blame you ... product owner says it's your fault, you did not follow my guide right.

BULL!

We as buyers need to hold sellers accountable and not just a money back thing... I bought your product and they need to actually help you or do things to make the claims in the product sales page come true. If not let everyone know the product is not good and the owner will not help you succeed.

Hold the sellers accountable for what they claim.

I have had this challenge out for years... Anyone that wants to prove there system give it to me I will follow it to the tee... any money that I will make I will donate to a charity of the product owners choice, not only that I will match it with my own money...donate in the product owners name so they get the tax write off and credit with the charity... then I will give everything back to the product owner domain name, website, tools, what ever it I had to follow in the report at no cost.

If you look at my SIG and want to join in or have a product just let me know.

It's a good ideal don't let them say it won't work they are just scared you might have their product on your site and they don't want that.

Richard

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traffic2 12 years ago

Richard,
I will give you a copy of LI Assist bot for review. I am going to work to get all the training videos shot this weekend and I will have the entire package ready for reviewers on Monday.
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traffic2

12 years ago

That is true Will. Everyone has a different skill level, work ethic and area of expertise. Hence the different results. For example I have never had much success with CPA offers no matter what I have tried. I know people make a killing in that area but its not my thing. So I would probably never buy a CPA related WSO. My success has come from developing automated software of all different kinds. I would never try to sell or put my name on something that I did not personally use and have successful results. You are right when you say just because I had great results does not mean that the next guy would have the same. I know that is the case and thats why the seller needs to honor a money back guarantee on all his products.

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RichardDean

12 years ago

Originally Posted by traffic2

That is true Will. Everyone has a different skill level, work ethic and area of expertise. Hence the different results. For example I have never had much success with CPA offers no matter what I have tried. I know people make a killing in that area but its not my thing. So I would probably never buy a CPA related WSO. My success has come from developing automated software of all different kinds. I would never try to sell or put my name on something that I did not personally use and have successful results. You are right when you say just because I had great results does not mean that the next guy would have the same. I know that is the case and thats why the seller needs to honor a money back guarantee on all his products.

The problem is you see fake screen shots you see hype you see lies... about CPA offers...

Stop believing what you see or hear.

If a system works it works.... most of them don't work because they are fake or just theory.

If someone has a CPA offer that says make 10,000 in a month my blueprint and you do what it says ( i'm not talking about the lazy)

Step one
Step two
Step three
so on ...
and it don't work then it don't work hold them accountable for that... and not just a money back thing either.

FTC is going to be stepping in and hold them accountable no reason we can't do it already.

Richard

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Martyn Wilson

12 years ago

Thanks Richard

Wow! I was only joking about the idea, but you have actually done it! Love it.

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daddykool

12 years ago

We have sites around...

"Put your Money, where our Mouth is!"

Offer a genuine service, get it done, get paid, get reviewed, get more clients

Works a treat!

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HelpingYouBeAnExpert

12 years ago

You need it to be a standard to work, it's like a catch 22 situation.

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lingmag

12 years ago

Even if there is no way to verify income results, with screen shots being faked and all, I think someone setting up a review site should at least post his/her receipt or receipt email showing that s/he actually owns the product being reviewed.

That would stop alot of this. A problem is that even the gurus that teach affiliate marketing teach newbies to get started by setting up review sites and just posting text from the original ads. I'm willing to bet that at least 95% of review sites are put up by people who don't even own the product.

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usabids 12 years ago

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- Kay King 12 years ago
  
  Stop believing what you see or hear.
  
  I'd add - and stop expecting others to provide perfect solutions for you.
  
  On the left side of the fence are thousands of "make money" products. Many of them work well if you put in the effort and learn the system. Many of them are crap - but you have to buy and try before you figure that out.
  
  On the right side of the fence are hordes of "marketers" asking "where can I buy a system to make money". Oh - it has to be cheap/fast and easy, too. These folks want big money - and they want to buy "the answer" that guarantees results.
  
  In this case the left hand knows exactly what the right hand is doing - they are waiting to be led. And sellers make a lot of money leading them. If you haven't figured that out yet - it's time you did.
  
  kay
  
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  Dear April: I don't want any trouble from you.
  January was long, February was iffy, March was a freaking dumpster fire.
  So sit down, be quiet, and don't touch anything.
  
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  RichardDean 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  I'd add - and stop expecting others to provide perfect solutions for you.
  
  kay
  
  Are you referring to sellers ?
  
  If you are they should be perfect or darn close to it.... because -
  
  If you're a seller then perfect it before you take it to market.
  
  Too many times I see half ass'ed products take Butterfly Marketing Script still does not work and Mike has no intentions of making it work like it should. like the sales page said... Rush to market then screw everyone who bought it...
  
  This is where the FTC should step in people who do stuff like this lock them up.
  
  But he sure did take everyone's money... and people say he is a guru my ass.
  (that's another story)
  
  Before you sell something make sure it does what you say it will.
  
  Richard
  
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- traffic2 12 years ago
  
  Like I said above, I am not new to Internet Marketing. I have been doing it full time since 2006. I have always developed my own tools. Mostly automation bots. I have never shared any of my tools outside my people. Everything I will put on WSO will do exactly as it says it will do on the sales page. I know I dont have any credibility on the forum yet but that will soon change. Im not on WF to make money really. I have all my revenue channels working around the clock. I joined WF to share a few of my Automation Bots (I developed by the way) and build a reputation.
  
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Tadresources

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Martyn Wilson

The internet just seems to be so saturated with money making systems that are being sold by people who have never made a penny from their own advice.

I know there are review sites out there for various sytsems, but half of the time these are run by the very people who are selling the systems.

My idea would be to set up a website where IM's are invited in to prove their sytems to independant judges selected at random from places like the Warrior Forum. If they cannot prove what they say then they should pay $100 to a worthwhile charity. The charities would make a fortune if anyone actually volunteered.

How many of you would be willing to step up and put your money where your mouth is?

That's an interesting idea, but I don't see how the logistics would work. Too many variables that could be manipulated.

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I'm thinking of starting a "PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS" website!

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