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Google Facing Bankruptcy for Privacy Violations?

by kindsvater
93 replies
Check out this article from the Wall Street Journal today about worldwide investigations of Google fraudulently circumventing the privacy settings on computers, phones, ipads, etc.

Google Faces New Privacy Probes - WSJ.com

Basically, government entities will be lining up, seeing how much money their budgets need, and demanding that Google write a check.

And then there will be the civil lawsuits ...

.
#bankruptcy #facing #google #privacy #violations
  • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
    Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

    Check out this article from the Wall Street Journal today about worldwide investigations of Google fraudulently circumventing the privacy settings on computers, phones, ipads, etc.

    Google Faces New Privacy Probes - WSJ.com

    Basically, government entities will be lining up, seeing how much money their budgets need, and demanding that Google write a check.

    And then there will be the civil lawsuits ...

    .
    All of the fines, will be lose change for a company like Google, they won't care.
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    • Profile picture of the author nicholasb
      Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

      All of the fines, will be lose change for a company like Google, they won't care.
      "$16,000 per violation, per day. Because millions of people were affected"

      that is $16,000,000,000 just for 1 million users for one day

      16 billion not exactly pocket change even for Google

      plus there is no telling how many millions if there were 2 million users that
      would be 32 billion dollars and so on.

      they also said per day, so this can easily add up to the hundreds of billions of dollars
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
        Originally Posted by nicholasb View Post


        they also said per day, so this can easily add up to the hundreds of billions of dollars
        And that's one country.

        Take that times 4 or 5 (or more) and Google is out of business.

        Rob
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        • Profile picture of the author wtd1
          Google's worth $199 billion, if anybody's curious - according to Google Finance.
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          • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
            Originally Posted by wtd1 View Post

            Google's worth $199 billion, if anybody's curious - according to Google Finance.
            Their is a difference between WORTH and cash in the bank.

            And worth can be calculated in all sorts of ways. I could easily say that my business is worth 1 million dollars, depending on how you add the numbers.

            However, cash flow is important to any business - and if they get slapped with a 20 billion dollar fine, that could decimate their cash flow, causing all sorts of catastrophic failures. (A big chain reaction)

            Rob
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            • Profile picture of the author JeremiahSay
              haha interesting.. if google goes down, most of the IMer will follow.. I don't know how true is that, but i'm pretty sure it's gonna at least affect 1/2 the IMers out there.

              I'm just saying..

              Originally Posted by Rob Howard View Post

              Their is a difference between WORTH and cash in the bank.

              And worth can be calculated in all sorts of ways. I could easily say that my business is worth 1 million dollars, depending on how you add the numbers.

              However, cash flow is important to any business - and if they get slapped with a 20 billion dollar fine, that could decimate their cash flow, causing all sorts of catastrophic failures. (A big chain reaction)

              Rob
              Totally agree.. There's a real difference between WORTH and cash in the bank. Google name is WORTH $199 Billion, and many out there thought that as long as the government don't fine google more than $199 billion, google would still be running and be in business..

              But that's certainly not true, give google a $10 billion fine and they will "shack". $10 billion fine may not seem a lot to google, but that is definitely gonna affect their cashflow.

              And if that happens, google will be in very bad mood.. and what happens if google is in bad mood, it's gonna affect ALL of us IMers.

              Haha just kidding, but seriously.. Don't piss google off, because they will go hard on their updates, and their updates as most of us know, are gonna affect us in many ways.

              Again, I'm just saying..

              Jeremiah
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              • Profile picture of the author nik0
                Banned
                Originally Posted by JeremiahSay View Post

                But that's certainly not true, give google a $10 billion fine and they will "shack". $10 billion fine may not seem a lot to google, but that is definitely gonna affect their cashflow.

                And if that happens, google will be in very bad mood.. and what happens if google is in bad mood, it's gonna affect ALL of us IMers.

                Haha just kidding, but seriously.. Don't piss google off, because they will go hard on their updates, and their updates as most of us know, are gonna affect us in many ways.

                Again, I'm just saying..

                Jeremiah
                I think you are totally wrong here. Google makes it hard on us now cause they can afford it. If they get a $10 billion fine they gonna need all of us small publishers more then ever. Who cares about best websites on the top of Google that aren't publishing advertisments from Google? Google is having a luxury problem and thats why they are able to get rid of us small niche site publishers.
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              • Profile picture of the author kwanchen
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                • Profile picture of the author azmanar
                  Originally Posted by kwanchen View Post

                  Yes, multi-billion-dollar international corporations make business decisions based on revenge. :rolleyes: What happened? LKY got you kicked out of grammar school or something? :p

                  Using American slang does not make you look cool. Quite the opposite. :rolleyes:
                  Kwan,

                  Stop poking him and be kool..

                  Frankly, this topic of Privacy Violation is a serious one.

                  Seems there are more companies doing it and we still don't know about it until the next "breaking news".

                  What Google did is not the first time in the industry. Just shows that many "beloved" companies cannot be trusted and steal our data in stealth mode.

                  Microsoft was doing it when they were at near monopoly of the OS market. They were stealing data through Windows and IE. They got slammed real hard by consumers. That exploded and triggered the Open Source movement.

                  Apple did it through iPhone. We're still waiting for the full impact of what Google did. Maybe Facebook and eBay next.

                  This looks really like a rampant practice by many companies, until they get noticed.
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      • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
        Originally Posted by nicholasb View Post

        "$16,000 per violation, per day. Because millions of people were affected"

        that is $16,000,000,000 just for 1 million users for one day

        16 billion not exactly pocket change even for Google

        plus there is no telling how many millions if there were 2 million users that
        would be 32 billion dollars and so on.

        they also said per day, so this can easily add up to the hundreds of billions of dollars
        Google is only worth $100 Billion, so unless they want to bankrupt Google, lose loads of Jobs and training centre. THEY WON'T.

        No, people didn't even notice, all of the data was collected didn't have any personal information, just web stuff. If you think they'll even fine Google, your in the wrong niche.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
        Originally Posted by nicholasb View Post

        "$16,000 per violation, per day. Because millions of people were affected"

        that is $16,000,000,000 just for 1 million users for one day

        16 billion not exactly pocket change even for Google

        plus there is no telling how many millions if there were 2 million users that
        would be 32 billion dollars and so on.

        they also said per day, so this can easily add up to the hundreds of billions of dollars
        Well you can always make payments and work something out:p
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  • Profile picture of the author agc
    Wow. And Google negotiated this penalty for themselves as part of getting their chestnuts out of a different fire.

    This just might be the nuclear warhead that hits Mountainview.
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  • Profile picture of the author agc
    "Last year, the FTC charged Google with deceptive practices related to its rollout of another social-networking service, Buzz. The commission alleged, among other things, that users who agreed to join Buzz weren't adequately informed that the identity of the people they emailed most frequently would be visible to others by default. "

    Seriously? What genius thought THAT was a good idea?
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  • Profile picture of the author hellow0rld
    Google would just keep them in courts until the governments went broke. That's how it's done, right?
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    Nothing much to say. This video explains it all.

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  • Profile picture of the author Kung Fu Backlinks
    Hmmm take Google out and you'll see a major blow to the economy. How will I decide where to eat or which dentist to use? :O

    Seriously... Google's the ultimate online business facilitator. Google practically IS the Internet. It can't die.
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Originally Posted by Kung Fu Backlinks View Post

      Hmmm take Google out and you'll see a major blow to the economy. How will I decide where to eat or which dentist to use? :O

      Seriously... Google's the ultimate online business facilitator. Google practically IS the Internet. It can't die.
      no it's not...

      people are the Internet...

      social media is the Internet...

      Google is big, but they can be replaced.

      This is all just my humble opinion, of course.
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    • Profile picture of the author ryanmilligan
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      Originally Posted by Kung Fu Backlinks View Post

      Hmmm take Google out and you'll see a major blow to the economy. How will I decide where to eat or which dentist to use? :O

      Seriously... Google's the ultimate online business facilitator. Google practically IS the Internet. It can't die.
      It will be replaced almost instantly.

      + it's not the only search engine out there.
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      • Profile picture of the author StunningWarrior
        Originally Posted by ryanmilligan View Post

        It will be replaced almost instantly.

        + it's not the only search engine out there.
        Google search will be replaced almost instantly yes. Very few people have not heard of another search engine.

        And the advertisers will only take a few days to go to other ad networks.

        But Google Apps? What happens to businesses if Google Apps gets switched off? This is a nightmare scenario. You're a 10,000-employee company without MS Office on your desktop any more. Your word processing and spreadsheet applications have been removed. And all your documents are on servers that are no longer accessible, and you don't have a clue where the backups are. This could create thousands of bankruptcies.
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        • Profile picture of the author sofus
          This article is worth reading as well:
          Google Gives Search a Refresh - WSJ.com
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          • Profile picture of the author azmanar
            Originally Posted by sofus View Post

            This article is worth reading as well:
            Google Gives Search a Refresh - WSJ.com
            Hi,

            Thanks.

            Eventhough it is not relevant to Google's Privacy Violations against Safari users but it is definitely worth reading.

            As usual, they are thinking on ways to LINK 3 IMPORTANT MATTERS as fast and as relevant to Searchers' intentions, i.e. PEOPLE-PLACES-THINGS.

            That really means a new set of algorithm, SERP page make-over and more space for advertising.

            And guys, about 20% of the existing websites indexed in Google will be affected ( also mean a lot will be kicked out ). A new mark-up language will be introduced for those who want to be indexed or META-zized.

            Good news for WSO-makers. Bad news for tight-wads ... lol . And I speculate that would mean a lot of work for IMer's to re-align themselves to Google's new engine demands.
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        • Profile picture of the author Robby54
          Well hopefully this is a blow to googles monopoly on things.. This would give leverage to smaller search engines link bing, yahoo, etc..

          I just hate monopoly's since all that power usually ends up going to their head.
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        • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
          Originally Posted by StunningWarrior View Post

          Google search will be replaced almost instantly yes. Very few people have not heard of another search engine.

          And the advertisers will only take a few days to go to other ad networks.

          But Google Apps? What happens to businesses if Google Apps gets switched off? This is a nightmare scenario. You're a 10,000-employee company without MS Office on your desktop any more. Your word processing and spreadsheet applications have been removed. And all your documents are on servers that are no longer accessible, and you don't have a clue where the backups are. This could create thousands of bankruptcies.

          which is why you never rely on free third-party sites to host your valuable documents. Smart businesses/people make backups. For less than $100 you can have a 500G to 1TB external hard-drive to backup all your documents. Most companies that I know of do daily back-ups.

          a 10,000 employee company who does things that way you described is just plain dumb.
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          • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
            Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post


            a 10,000 employee company who does things that way you described is just plain dumb.
            Or put another way, would not have a 10k employee payroll if they did things those ways.

            BIG companies and corporations have large amounts of redundancies to protect against catastrophic failure.

            Rob
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          • Profile picture of the author StunningWarrior
            Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

            which is why you never rely on free third-party sites to host your valuable documents. Smart businesses/people make backups. For less than $100 you can have a 500G to 1TB external hard-drive to backup all your documents. Most companies that I know of do daily back-ups.

            a 10,000 employee company who does things that way you described is just plain dumb.
            Google apps is not free for businesses, it's $5 per month per user. And presumably part of the service is a backup of the files - I never actually looked to find out but can't imagine it is not included. But if Google goes bust, you're relying on the administrators to retrieve your backups. And their top priority is most definitely not getting you your backup so that you can walk away and find another solution.

            Plenty of businesses rely upon cloud-based services - think of how many companies use salesforce.com for example, or EC2 which is very popular with IMers.

            While the service provider is alive and kicking and you have a good relationship then this approach can often be very cost effective. But if the supplier dies or you have a dispute ...

            It's part of the risk analysis that you go through as a CIO. You do the same for non-cloud outsourcing, for example.
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      • Profile picture of the author SeoKnightsInc
        Originally Posted by ryanmilligan View Post

        It will be replaced almost instantly.

        + it's not the only search engine out there.
        So who is gonna replace it ?

        Bing ? A historic search engine still finding it hard to get any ground..
        Yahoo ? A search engine which borrows its search results from another failure search engine

        or wolframalpha ? which know only how to calculate

        may be ask jeevs a shop with only advertisements and almost no results...

        i think will instantly replace Google right ???? loooool
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        • Profile picture of the author THK
          Originally Posted by pbbiet View Post

          So who is gonna replace it ?

          Bing ? A historic search engine still finding it hard to get any ground..
          Yahoo ? A search engine which borrows its search results from another failure search engine

          or wolframalpha ? which know only how to calculate

          may be ask jeevs a shop with only advertisements and almost no results...

          i think will instantly replace Google right ???? loooool
          Yes. Any or all of them can replace Google.

          You are missing the point. The question of replacing Google will come only if Google disappears. And if it is not around, it won't matter if rest of the search engines are as good or anywhere near. People will have to settle for the second best.

          FYI, I am not suggesting that Google will disappear anytime soon. They are like self taught expert in the art (crime!) of privacy breaching. They will settle it without anyone knowing it.

          Tanvir
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    • Profile picture of the author zerofill
      Originally Posted by Kung Fu Backlinks View Post

      Seriously... Google's the ultimate online business facilitator. Google practically IS the Internet. It can't die.
      You weren't around much during the days of search engines coming and going I am guessing?

      Google just like Facebook or anything else online... can always be replaced. All it takes is for a vast number of the user base to one day switch to something else...

      A law suite won't kill Google. They can hide their money in other shell companies etc and still exist.

      But that doesn't protect them and cement their legacy from the public changing their mind.

      The internet is just like real estate... it moves in cycles. When something comes a long that really is better... people jump ship.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Don,
        But that doesn't protect them and cement their legacy from the public changing their mind.
        That's true, as far as it goes. Google has something going for them that none of the earlier players in that cycle had, at least not to anything like the same degree: A huge userbase with a financial or personal investment in their continued success.

        The AdWords/AdSense folks want Google to stay a force. Everyone who uses Gmail, Google Docs, etc, want them to stay around at least for those functions. And, while they're on those sites, they're likely to do their searches on Google.

        There are a lot of other interactions there that have similar effects.

        The only reason Yahoo is still a player of any real force is that they got similar things going before the Google phenom killed them off. Yahoo Mail, News, Personal, Messenger, My Yahoo, etc.

        A lot of other things enter into it, like Google's unprecedented access to consumer information, but the "stickiness" of the sites is the key any more. Otherwise, Bing would have bumped Google off the top of the hill by now.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author zerofill
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          A huge userbase with a financial or personal investment in their continued success.
          True... I actually feel the personal investment is much more of a win for them in the long haul then those who have a financial investment. Since we know many of them (financial investors) wouldn't have a problem jumping from one ship and investing in the next one.

          I often wonder how many people/businesses have documents, spreadsheets, etc... with no actual copies on their own computers.

          Personally the last thing I want is Google having access to my ideas, financials, joint venture negotiations, etc. that easily. At least make them work for it a bit lol. Kinda like my stance on Google analytics, webmaster tools and gmail.

          But that doesn't stop a lot of people from trusting them.

          So I feel that personal investment is probably more substantial then the financial investment in the end.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Don,
            So I feel that personal investment is probably more substantial then the financial investment in the end.
            Very likely true, except possibly the AdSense folks. A lot of them might have a hard time converting to another contextual ad network. But generally, I'd suspect you're right on that.
            Personally the last thing I want is Google having access to my ideas, financials, joint venture negotiations, etc. that easily. At least make them work for it a bit lol. Kinda like my stance on Google analytics, webmaster tools and gmail.
            Preach it, Brother Don!

            Facecult, too.


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  • Profile picture of the author domainarama
    Is it time to short GOOG? Not yet. The legal battle will take years no matter who prevails.
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  • Profile picture of the author MaryK
    Very interesting post. If Google dies, there will be others, already waiting in the wings, to take over. Maybe it's what's needed as a monopoly in any line of business isn't satisfactory.

    Even so, Google will probably manage to get out of it's current situation, by claiming "it was all a mistake, we didn't do it intentionally' - which of course is hard to credit but would probably hold up in court.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by MaryK View Post

      Even so, Google will probably manage to get out of it's current situation, by claiming "it was all a mistake, we didn't do it intentionally' - which of course is hard to credit but would probably hold up in court.
      Hopefully they'll be held to the same standards as everyone else where ignorance is no excuse.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Oh well....back to infoseek.com
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    There's a lot of Chicken Little sky is falling hysteria in
    this thread. LOL. Google isn't going anywhere. There
    will be no multi-billion dollar fines that will bankrupt them.

    If they are, in fact, guilty there will be a global settlement
    that will encompass all interested parties and business will
    move forward.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      There's a lot of Chicken Little sky is falling hysteria in
      this thread. LOL. Google isn't going anywhere. There
      will be no multi-billion dollar fines that will bankrupt them.

      If they are, in fact, guilty there will be a global settlement
      that will encompass all interested parties and business will
      move forward.

      Yep. That is how corporations survive wrong doing. They negotiate penalties, write them off, and move forward.

      Many of the people now rejoicing on the future corpse of Google may find that a vacuum left by the disappearance of Google would have a negative impact on all online commerce.

      I may not rely on Google, but some of my traffic sources might... So I would certainly see some pain when they go into the dust bin of history.

      Besides that... Has anyone tried to SEO for Bing successfully? It is much, much harder to do.




      More interesting to me is how the "violation" came to pass.

      Google used cookies and somehow got around the privacy settings of the Safari browser.

      Now I am a part-time programmer, and this really has me thinking hard...

      If Google dropped some kind of code to force bypassing of Safari's default settings, then how could they say it was a mistake?

      If Google really did do it inadvertently, then Safari is probably coded wrong, therefore enabling anyone to bypass its privacy settings. If that is the case, then perhaps anyone who uses cookies on a website is also guilty of this "privacy breech".

      If the second possibility is the right answer, then Google is actually innocent -- for people who care about that kind of thing, and the failure of Safari to handle cookies correctly could be considered to be entrapment of Google by Apple, which owns the Safari browser.

      Since I do use cookies on some of my sites, I could also be in the process of being entrapped by Safari, although no one is going to come after me concerning the violation of Safari users privacy.

      If I need to validate the browser before using cookies, then I am "inadvertently" doing it wrong too.

      The reality is that as far as my programmer brain can see, either Google is lying about doing it on accident, if they coded something to force passing cookies to Safari users... OR... Apple has entrapped Google by building faulty software...
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      • Profile picture of the author agc
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        Besides that... Has anyone tried to SEO for Bing successfully? It is much, much harder to do.
        Yanno, I was thinking about that the other day. I have pages of keywords working their way up through single digit pages on Google... and NOTHING on Yahoo or Bing.

        I think it partly has to do with freshness. G would rather serve trivial fresh content than informative old content. Y and B appear to me to have the opposite preference.
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        • Profile picture of the author sonicadam123
          Sky isn't falling yet, it's just an investigation, so keep your hats on

          Originally Posted by agc View Post

          Yanno, I was thinking about that the other day. I have pages of keywords working their way up through single digit pages on Google... and NOTHING on Yahoo or Bing.

          I think it partly has to do with freshness. G would rather serve trivial fresh content than informative old content. Y and B appear to me to have the opposite preference.
          Even just getting indexed by bing takes a while these days.

          I still find old & rubbish content at the top of serps in G all the time though lol.
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          • Profile picture of the author SeoKnightsInc
            Originally Posted by sonicadam123 View Post

            I still find old & rubbish content at the top of serps in G all the time though lol.
            !!! Not worth to comment
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      • Profile picture of the author ahlexis
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        Yep. That is how corporations survive wrong doing. They negotiate penalties, write them off, and move forward.


        More interesting to me is how the "violation" came to pass.


        The reality is that as far as my programmer brain can see, either Google is lying about doing it on accident, if they coded something to force passing cookies to Safari users... OR... Apple has entrapped Google by building faulty software...
        If they have been entrapped by Apple, then that means the penalty could fall on APPLE, could it not? And therefore, the affordability goes even HIGHER???

        After all, is not Apple valued to be a $500 billion company? Especially now, with iPad 3 just hitting stores today?

        Personally, I think this is just a matter of 'EVERYONE'S BROKE', government style. When people cannot pay their bills, they file bankruptcy and reorganize, or do things to increase their income. When governments are broke, do they not also do things to increase their income? And is not taxing and fining the s**t out of people one tactic a government gets to use in order to increase its income?
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      • Profile picture of the author StunningWarrior
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post


        More interesting to me is how the "violation" came to pass.

        Google used cookies and somehow got around the privacy settings of the Safari browser.

        Now I am a part-time programmer, and this really has me thinking hard...

        If Google dropped some kind of code to force bypassing of Safari's default settings, then how could they say it was a mistake?

        If Google really did do it inadvertently, then Safari is probably coded wrong, therefore enabling anyone to bypass its privacy settings. If that is the case, then perhaps anyone who uses cookies on a website is also guilty of this "privacy breech".

        If the second possibility is the right answer, then Google is actually innocent -- for people who care about that kind of thing, and the failure of Safari to handle cookies correctly could be considered to be entrapment of Google by Apple, which owns the Safari browser.

        Since I do use cookies on some of my sites, I could also be in the process of being entrapped by Safari, although no one is going to come after me concerning the violation of Safari users privacy.

        If I need to validate the browser before using cookies, then I am "inadvertently" doing it wrong too.

        The reality is that as far as my programmer brain can see, either Google is lying about doing it on accident, if they coded something to force passing cookies to Safari users... OR... Apple has entrapped Google by building faulty software...
        I don't think that is what the article is saying. I think it says that Google deliberately placed cookies on the surfer's machine but inadvertently tracked the surfer. So maybe somebody forgot to activate an

        IF cookie_type=forced_safari THEN track_user:=FALSE ELSE track_user:=TRUE


        type of statement, or forgot to check the status of "track_user" before tracking.
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        Yep. That is how corporations survive wrong doing. They negotiate penalties, write them off, and move forward.

        Many of the people now rejoicing on the future corpse of Google may find that a vacuum left by the disappearance of Google would have a negative impact on all online commerce.

        I may not rely on Google, but some of my traffic sources might... So I would certainly see some pain when they go into the dust bin of history.

        Besides that... Has anyone tried to SEO for Bing successfully? It is much, much harder to do.

        More interesting to me is how the "violation" came to pass.

        Google used cookies and somehow got around the privacy settings of the Safari browser.

        Now I am a part-time programmer, and this really has me thinking hard...

        If Google dropped some kind of code to force bypassing of Safari's default settings, then how could they say it was a mistake?

        If Google really did do it inadvertently, then Safari is probably coded wrong, therefore enabling anyone to bypass its privacy settings. If that is the case, then perhaps anyone who uses cookies on a website is also guilty of this "privacy breech".

        If the second possibility is the right answer, then Google is actually innocent -- for people who care about that kind of thing, and the failure of Safari to handle cookies correctly could be considered to be entrapment of Google by Apple, which owns the Safari browser.

        Since I do use cookies on some of my sites, I could also be in the process of being entrapped by Safari, although no one is going to come after me concerning the violation of Safari users privacy.

        If I need to validate the browser before using cookies, then I am "inadvertently" doing it wrong too.

        The reality is that as far as my programmer brain can see, either Google is lying about doing it on accident, if they coded something to force passing cookies to Safari users... OR... Apple has entrapped Google by building faulty software...

        hmmm, definitely food for thought, there.

        For the record, I doubt Google is going anywhere, but unlike many people, I don't bow down to them and I don't rely on them 100%.

        What happens to monopolies? Competition happens, and soon, they are no longer a monopoly, which to me, is a good thing.

        Google has become very aggressive lately because of Facebook's success, I think. I believe that social media is threatening their bottom line. Let's face it, no one really needs to buy their Adwords to make money, because social media marketing is so viral, if done properly.

        I may be way off base here. Who knows? What I do know for sure is that the lawyers on both sides stand to make a killing with this.
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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

          Google has become very aggressive lately because of Facebook's success, I think. I believe that social media is threatening their bottom line. Let's face it, no one really needs to buy their Adwords to make money, because social media marketing is so viral, if done properly.

          Google is being pressed hard on all sides.

          One thing that is happening that I see few marketers acknowledge is that Bing is actually chipping away at the strength of Google.

          I admit the last time I checked was about 3 months ago, but Bing has increased its market share by about 10% in the last 2 years.

          Who are they taking that market share from? You betcha... Those users are coming directly from Google's user base.
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    • Profile picture of the author InternetSuccess001
      1. I agree, this does sound a bit like the 'sky is falling' type of thing... Unlikely they would pay 16 'billion', or even close to that. They are being targeted because they are big, and and easy target. And I think the title of this thread inappropriate, just designed to get commentary. Unlikely google would go 'bankrupt'.

      2. "Cookies", in terms of privacy, are relatively insignificant to other potential privacy breaches. You pick any website on the internet, and it could be found to 'violate' privacy, open to someone else's interpretation. The article almost seems to be written with a bit of fear mongering. (If anyone should be concerned about 'privacy', it is things like the fact that your gmail is never really 'deleted', or having google analytics installed on all your websites so 3rd parties can see where your competition is. Not a tiny eensy weensy cookie that says joe smith likes football, so time to show more football ads). The only thing -- which the article did *not* go into - was *what* information was stored. If it indeed was a "cookie", then google no more was getting access to any information then it could through other means.

      However, this could be a small step towards helping to ensure privacy is not abused.

      3. Google is a big company, with a lot of smart people working for it. It will still be around for a while yet, just like Microsoft.

      John

      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      There's a lot of Chicken Little sky is falling hysteria in
      this thread. LOL. Google isn't going anywhere. There
      will be no multi-billion dollar fines that will bankrupt them.

      If they are, in fact, guilty there will be a global settlement
      that will encompass all interested parties and business will
      move forward.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    If google needed to violate privacy to make that cash flow - slapping them so they can't breech privacy is going to hurt even before the fines.

    They got power hungry. Nobody wants their privacy violated, and they said "tough noogies, we can so we will and you have no say if you want us to list you". Well, guess the hell what? So google goes under - Bing it, Yahoo. If google isn't there, searchers will use what is. Maybe that will change the way we do things a little bit - but it's not going to hurt that much in the long run. "Too big to fail" only works when people are naive enough to believe it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      If google needed to violate privacy to make that cash flow - slapping them so they can't breech privacy is going to hurt even before the fines.

      They got power hungry. Nobody wants their privacy violated, and they said "tough noogies, we can so we will and you have no say if you want us to list you". Well, guess the hell what? So google goes under - Bing it, Yahoo. If google isn't there, searchers will use what is. Maybe that will change the way we do things a little bit - but it's not going to hurt that much in the long run. "Too big to fail" only works when people are naive enough to believe it.
      There was a time when that may have been true, but with the rise of reality TV, Facebook, and YouTube, I think fewer people care about privacy. They are willing to give up their privacy, if they even think about it at all, in exchange for their 15 minutes of fame.

      Privacy IS an important issue, but one that the masses are apathetic or complacent about. Perhaps the amateur fame seekers only think about their privacy after their fame comes to an end.

      We may care about privacy, but I'm quite sure that is no longer the majority view.

      All the best,
      Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        I think fewer people care about privacy. They are willing to give up their privacy, if they even think about it at all, in exchange for their 15 minutes of fame.
        Or $15. Just think of Target's red card - get 5% off for waiving your privacy.

        Unless a government official or attorney offers $15.01, and then they decide their privacy is really important.

        ---

        This issue is of course important for people who value their privacy.

        Or adults who are concerned that Google is intentionally breaching privacy settings on their child's computer or phone and collecting information about their child that is permanently being stored in Google's vast databases.

        Any "consent" from a child is likely unenforceable.

        This is really dangerous territory what Google is doing. Data collected is data that is used. Or potentially hacked. Or stolen. Think Wikileaks.

        .
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        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          This is really dangerous territory what Google is doing. Data collected is data that is used. Or potentially hacked. Or stolen. Think Wikileaks.
          Brian,

          I'm going to throw a new twist into the discussion, and before I get accused of being a tin foil hat wearing lunatic let me just state for the record I don't care what I'm called as long as I'm not called late for dinner.

          I'm sure most of us are familiar with Wired Magazine. It's a reputable source and I've included a link to one of their articles dated March 15, 2012. Here's the link...

          The NSA Is Building the Country's Biggest Spy Center (Watch What You Say) | Threat Level | Wired.com

          Now, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if this current bending over the barrel Google is being subjected to has something to do with LEVERAGE. Specifically leverage to force them to cooperate with the aggregation of data by the agency mentioned in the above article.

          And for those who take the time read the article you'll see any misgivings you have about Google invading your privacy will pale in comparison to what is actually in the cards if that article is correct.

          ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author jessiepadgal
    I'm sure Google will prevail.

    Otherwise, c'mon Duck Duck Go!
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  • Profile picture of the author King444
    Well, Google is using itself black hat technique, but penalize webmasters if they use black hat techniques..Ridiculous
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  • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
    I am not sure what the whole fuzz is about. No one above the laws.

    If Google Violates people privacy, he should start paying off.

    Google knows more about me today than my wife.

    16 billion dollar is not pocket change, but the hell Google can afford it even if we multiply it in 10

    FTC didn't start investigating Google for no reason. Google has been playing unfair, and some fine from time to time, may set the records straight lol
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    • Profile picture of the author MattCatania


      Originally Posted by onegoodman View Post

      16 billion dollar is not pocket change, but the hell Google can afford it even if we multiply it in 10
      I'm sure Google may be more than a little worried if they had to cough up 160 BILLION dollars.

      Will all this even amount to fines in the billions of dollars? Your guess is as good as mine.

      My advice: Keep your eye on what's happening, but don't let it distract you from continuing to build your business, especially if you're diversifying your traffic away from SEO.
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      Logic outweighs all.

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  • Profile picture of the author johnweyer
    lets see, Google has a list of every site that every government official has accessed for the last ten years or so. hmm, could be interesting. methinks G holds all the cards here and this will go away.
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  • Profile picture of the author BestSEO
    If you honestly think that Google is going to pay more than a hundred million in fines, which is NOTHING really to them, you are nuts!
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  • Profile picture of the author Wilcox
    Ahhh so this is how the world ends.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Wilcox View Post

      Ahhh so this is how the world ends.
      LOL, yeah that indeed what they meant with the Maya calendar, Google go's down
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan Joseph
    Wow this article is very interesting. If Google's company is in Jeopardy then we all know which likely search engine will step right up in front. BING. ie: Microsoft.
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    "Success comes when people act together; failure tends to happen alone." -- Deepak Chopra

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  • Profile picture of the author Myri
    GOOGLE, GOOGLE, I guess we all have to keep an eye on their stock - GOOG - and see what Wall Street feels about it
    GOOG: Summary for Google Inc.- Yahoo! Finance
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    • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
      A lot of people seem to enjoy the idea of Google going down.

      Let me say this:

      I LOVE GOOGLE - they have been sending real prospects to my money making sites and my services for more than 10 years now.

      For free.

      If I had to pay any type of advertising to get the same targeted leads and customers, my business would have been much less profitable.

      Ralf
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Ralf Skirr View Post

        If I had to pay any type of advertising to get the same targeted leads and customers, my business would have been much less profitable.

        Ralf

        But it would have still been profitable...

        And if not, you would have raised your prices a bit to make sure it was, right?
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        • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          But it would have still been profitable...

          And if not, you would have raised your prices a bit to make sure it was, right?
          That's twisted thinking.
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          • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
            [DELETED]
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            • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
              1. Yes, and the profit is significantly higher if I don't have to pay for the leads. I have products where PPC would eat 80% of the profit compared to free leads. (That's not true for all my products, but for some, where I tested.)

              2. I'm also making money from things that would not be profitable when based on advertising. That's a good thing, as it means passive income with almost no investment and almost no work involved.

              I'm not saying that I could not get clients with other ways, but thanks to Google it's easier, less time consuming, and significantly more profitable.

              Who would not want that?

              Some people would rather lose that, just for the feeeling that Google is bad and deserves to go down?

              Let me add that I do not put much work in SEO. I have always had my keywords in mind when writing content, but that's about it. The work I put in backlinking and stuff like that amounts to maybe 30 minutes per month.
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              • Profile picture of the author tpw
                Originally Posted by Ralf Skirr View Post

                Some people would rather lose that, just for the feeeling that Google is bad and deserves to go down?

                I am not one of those people.

                My point was that successful business owners are successful because they don't passively stand around waiting for Google to send them free traffic.

                Instead they are successful, because they figure out what it takes to make a profit, then they make it happen.

                Maybe I mistook your for a real business person... Forgive me if I was wrong... :rolleyes:
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                • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
                  Originally Posted by tpw View Post

                  I am not one of those people.

                  My point was that successful business owners are successful because they don't passively stand around waiting for Google to send them free traffic.

                  Instead they are successful, because they figure out what it takes to make a profit, then they make it happen.

                  Maybe I mistook your for a real business person... Forgive me if I was wrong... :rolleyes:
                  No, I'm not a real business person. I'm a smart person and take the free money Google sends me.

                  If they stop doing that (I know this can happen any second by dialing the algo switch) I start being a business person.

                  Let me put that back on track:
                  All I'm saying is: Google is good for business, so don't hate it.
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                  • Profile picture of the author tpw
                    Originally Posted by Ralf Skirr View Post

                    No, I'm not a real business person. I'm a smart person and take the free money Google sends me.

                    If they stop doing that (I know this can happen any second by dialing the algo switch) I start being a business person.

                    Let me put that back on track:
                    All I'm saying is: Google is good for business, so don't hate it.

                    See, that is the thing... I don't hate on Google, and I often defend it and its right to earn a profit.

                    So, are you saying that if there were no Google or Google didn't love on you anymore that you would adapt to the new realities of making money without Google's freebie leads?

                    To do so would not be twisted.

                    I get 15k unique visitors per month from Google. But if Google kicked me out of their search engine, I would still have 29k unique visitors per month.

                    Google kicking me to the curb would hurt, but not kill my business.

                    And if it hurt too much, I would seek more traffic from elsewhere, even if I had to pay for the leads.

                    And if I had to pay for the leads, I would adapt my business to make it profitable again, even if that meant I had to raise my prices, lower my costs or both.

                    Some people run businesses, and the business owners are committed to doing what it takes to succeed.

                    Other people make money online, and they are willing to roll over and die when Google stops loving them.

                    Honestly, that is the way it is, and it is not a twisted point of view.
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      • Profile picture of the author THK
        Originally Posted by Ralf Skirr View Post

        ...

        I LOVE GOOGLE ...

        Ralf
        Of course you love Google. If I were you, I would marry Google.

        A business relationship is normally formed for the mutual benefit of all parties involved. In your case you are the one getting all the benefits and Google getting nothing from you. You love them because you are getting a lot of business without having to pay for it, nothing to do how "great" or "generous" the company is.

        You are correct when you said that everyone would want that. But not everyone gets it though. There are people who has exactly the opposite experience than yours and their feeling about Google is also exactly the opposite. So no point hating the haters either.

        People love or hate Google for their own selfish reasons, it has no reflection of the company itself.

        Wish you all the success and hope you keep getting those free leads for decades to come

        Tanvir
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        • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
          Originally Posted by THK View Post

          Of course you love Google. If I were you, I would marry Google.
          Nah, don't mix business and bedroom.
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          • Profile picture of the author THK
            Originally Posted by Ralf Skirr View Post

            Nah, don't mix business and bedroom.
            lol...yea...I think that's the way to go.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
    Is this the Google B**ch slap coming up? lol.

    Google is at it's peak right now. I can only dream of the day when Google is too busy fighting court cases to worry about me making a few bucks on line.
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  • Profile picture of the author Farish
    The government will settle with google just like it did before. It is too costly and takes too long to fight a court battle, then realize that if you fine google too much, the government might have to give them back the money in the form of a bailout.

    The only way google will get hurt is if somebody comes along and comes out with a real competitor search engine to fight them.
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    • Profile picture of the author sherys
      Originally Posted by Farish View Post

      The government will settle with google just like it did before. It is too costly and takes too long to fight a court battle, then realize that if you fine google too much, the government might have to give them back the money in the form of a bailout.

      The only way google will get hurt is if somebody comes along and comes out with a real competitor search engine to fight them.
      None of the others come close to Google, they really need a strong competitor to crush their ego's.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    class action anyone?
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  • Profile picture of the author azmanar
    Hi,

    Google's business is not only the Search Engine.

    Everyone knows these as well:
    -> Google is giving out ANDROID OS for free to lots of DEVICE makers, and these device makers are selling hundreds of millions of devices worldwide and in turn Google is raking in billions from Google Play android apps ( previously Market ).

    -> We have Google Checkout to handle billions of transactions a day in several areas of ecommerce other than Google Play.

    -> Google has acquired Motorola and will be defining the market very very soon.

    So what Google now has:
    -> The biggest money making SE
    -> Super-huge software market
    -> A huge Payment Gateway
    -> A great hardware company

    These involve HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF WORKERS and spurring the economy.

    So, would a GOV really want to SHUT GOOGLE DOWN and cause damage to themselves in return ?

    They are just reigning in Google to not encroach people's privacy ( because .... ONLY GOV Agencies CAN DO THAT ! ..... lol ... lol ).
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  • Profile picture of the author marketwarrior06
    Banned
    Yes its may be a great deal for Google but we also have to remember about their total business revenue per year
    Which is far far far higher. So i don't think they are thinking about it deeply.
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  • Profile picture of the author SeoKnightsInc
    No problem will be there with Google this kind of lawsuits are regular for such big international companies. Google will be fine, its the best on internet those who think it can be replaced are little less aware of number Google products and its quality.
    GOOGLE IS NOT JUST A SEARCH ENGINE NOW.
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  • Profile picture of the author jacksonlin
    I have mixed reactions. Although Google really pisses me off because they change the rules on you all the time, I do need them to be around to give me traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author michaelcorvin
    They are not going bankrupt...Most of these big companies deal with crap like this all the time. It is part of being in America. You start making money and "govt regulators" are looking for BS suits to get their money.

    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author gojiberryman
    Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

    Check out this article from the Wall Street Journal today about worldwide investigations of Google fraudulently circumventing the privacy settings on computers, phones, ipads, etc.

    Google Faces New Privacy Probes - WSJ.com

    Basically, government entities will be lining up, seeing how much money their budgets need, and demanding that Google write a check.

    And then there will be the civil lawsuits ...

    .
    Ha ha ha ha! Do you know how many times Google gets itself into a cesspool and rises up out of it like nothing ever happened? Google can get itself out of any kind of mess and will continue to do it. Why? Well, because Google is the next best thing to the invention of the "Internet" its King Kong of the web world. People actually fear Google, its the government of the internet.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eduard Stinga
    Never thought I'd see "Google" and "Bankruptcy" in the same sentence
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Eduard Stinga View Post

      Never thought I'd see "Google" and "Bankruptcy" in the same sentence

      It was only hype to get you to read the thread. :p
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    • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
      Originally Posted by Eduard Stinga View Post

      Never thought I'd see "Google" and "Bankruptcy" in the same sentence
      Would almost make one think Brian is as good a marketer as lawyer "-)
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  • Profile picture of the author azmanar
    Hi,

    When iPHONE was tracking the users' locations, plotting every movement from end-to-end, was anybody upset about this?
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    • Profile picture of the author Tony Marriott
      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

      Hopefully they'll be held to the same standards as everyone else where ignorance is no excuse.
      Not a snowballs hope in hell.
      Google ('s lawyers) will expect to offer all the legal and moral mitigation it can and to argue the specifics of every legality. They will deal with the word of the law and circumnavigate anything they can by offering reasons why particular rules don't apply or have not been broken.

      In fact all the things that anyone, who Google feel are breaking their T&C's, are NOT allowed to do!

      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      There's a lot of Chicken Little sky is falling hysteria in
      this thread. LOL. Google isn't going anywhere. There
      will be no multi-billion dollar fines that will bankrupt them.

      If they are, in fact, guilty there will be a global settlement
      that will encompass all interested parties and business will
      move forward.
      Absolutely, these guys below all seem to still be doing OK..

      See THE TOP 100 CORPORATE CRIMINALS OF THE 1990's

      1) F. Hoffmann-La Roche Ltd.
      Type of Crime: Antitrust
      Criminal Fine: $500 million
      12 Corporate Crime Reporter 21(1), May 24, 1999

      2) Daiwa Bank Ltd.
      Type of Crime: Financial
      Criminal Fine: $340 million
      10 Corporate Crime Reporter 9(3), March 4, 1996

      3) BASF Aktiengesellschaft
      Type of Crime: Antitrust
      Criminal Fine: $225 million
      12 Corporate Crime Reporter 21(1), May 24, 1999

      4) SGL Carbon Aktiengesellschaft (SGL AG)
      Type of Crime: Antitrust
      Criminal Fine: $135 million
      12 Corporate Crime Reporter 19(4), May 10, 1999

      5) Exxon Corporation and Exxon Shipping
      Type of Crime: Environmental
      Criminal Fine: $125 million
      5 Corporate Crime Reporter 11(3), March 18, 1991

      Originally Posted by onegoodman View Post

      I am not sure what the whole fuzz is about. No one above the laws.

      If Google Violates people privacy, he should start paying off.

      Google knows more about me today than my wife.

      16 billion dollar is not pocket change, but the hell Google can afford it even if we multiply it in 10

      FTC didn't start investigating Google for no reason. Google has been playing unfair, and some fine from time to time, may set the records straight lol
      No one is above the law but some are better at avoiding the penalties than other and the bigger, more powerful and rich you are the better you can deal with it and in many cases the less you care.

      Extract from the article linked above

      .......Caveat two: Corporations define the laws under which they live.
      For example, the automobile industry over the past 30 years has worked its will on Congress to block legislation that would impose criminal sanctions on knowing and willful violations of the federal auto safety laws. Now, if an auto company is caught violating the law, and if the cops are not asleep at the wheel, only a civil fine is imposed.

      Caveat three: Because of their immense political power, big corporations have the resources to defend themselves in courts of law and in the court of public opinion.
      Few prosecutors are willing to subject themselves to the constant legal and public relations barrage that a corporation's well connected and high-priced legal talent can inflict.


      Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

      Brian,

      I'm going to throw a new twist into the discussion, and before I get accused of being a tin foil hat wearing lunatic let me just state for the record I don't care what I'm called as long as I'm not called late for dinner.

      I'm sure most of us are familiar with Wired Magazine. It's a reputable source and I've included a link to one of their articles dated March 15, 2012. Here's the link...

      The NSA Is Building the Country's Biggest Spy Center (Watch What You Say) | Threat Level | Wired.com

      Now, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if this current bending over the barrel Google is being subjected to has something to do with LEVERAGE. Specifically leverage to force them to cooperate with the aggregation of data by the agency mentioned in the above article.

      And for those who take the time read the article you'll see any misgivings you have about Google invading your privacy will pale in comparison to what is actually in the cards if that article is correct.

      ~Bill
      That's not as wild as one might imagine. Maybe it's not the original driving force but hey ..while you're there...
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    • Profile picture of the author agc
      Originally Posted by azmanar View Post

      Hi,

      When iPHONE was tracking the users' locations, plotting every movement from end-to-end, was anybody upset about this?
      Yes, plenty of people were upset, otherwise they would still be doing it.

      And Apple hadn't specifically negotiated a $16k per incident per day fine for such behavior in order to get out of trouble for such behavior in the past.

      And Apple wasn't doing it specifically for profit.
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  • Profile picture of the author ashishthakkar
    Well, Google is using itself black hat technique, but penalize webmasters if they use black hat techniques..Ridiculous
    I agree with that !

    Maybe they should be de-indexed or penalized for a while :p


    Regards,
    Ashish

    PS : Dont be evil !
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Lin
    Maybe facebook may initial a new search engine
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesW
    Serves them right for banning my totally clean Adsense account for no reason at all and effectively killing off one of my white hat sites this week by destroying the rankings of every single page. I have absolutely no sympathy at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author Henry White
    We'll just have to wait to see whether this is the RealDeal(tm) or something much, much different - a dog-and-pony show for the election season, another government shakedown, some eager-beaver out to make a name for himself, yada-yada-yada.

    Meanwhile, I can settle for 'karma' with more than a tinge of 'schadenfreude.'
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Ogbin
    I think that the FTC will negotiate with Google and even reduce the penalty dramatically. I don't know what to believe because the Google stock price increase almost 2%

    I think that Google could pay no more than $ M50.
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    Speedy Up - Jumping game that change your mood and put smile in your face :)
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  • Profile picture of the author warrich
    Google could have tried to save privacy of its users by taking some sufficient action but it failed to do so and if facing bankruptcy because of violating other's privacy. Google is a well known cyber giant among many users and could have maintained it's name by avoiding incidents like this because it affects people's minds and they move on to other sites like yahoo.
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  • Profile picture of the author ddev
    The day Google goes out of the game, be prepared cause everything would be like disneyland for IM's (like in the 90's) as the upcoming search engines would not have the filters Google already has (which took years to develop). Getting massive top ranks would be even easier (unless they're developing a separate engine and company - i'm sure they're doing so if they didn't do that already - to minimize risks).
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  • Profile picture of the author AustralasianLadyBoy
    OP - you've found your new niche - writing bs headlines to sell newspapers! Touchdown!
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    Stay tuned for my new 5r gig: "me so horny, me love you long time 5 dollar..."

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