6 replies
I was just reading the thread on paying for mentor who guarantees income. (It was just closed, not sure why...)

(And yes, I understand that a coach/consultant is different from a mentor. But in business/IM, the terms are often used interchangeably, so let's just go with it. Coaching/consulting is a very valid business model and way to make money.)

As others stated, the only way a mentor can guarantee income is if they do they work themselves. I'd view any mentor or coach who guarantees income VERY skeptically. No one can guarantee your income if they're not doing the work FOR you. Too many factors come into play: the time and effort put in, skill level, knowledge/understanding, commitment, etc.

As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Which is why a mentor can't guarantee your income!

I understand the fear of getting "taken." Been there, done that. Which is why there needs to be a high level of trust between you and your mentor. You not only need to trust that they know what they're talking about and have gotten results for themselves. You also need to trust that they care about you and your success. That's why integrity and genuine care/concern for your clients is so important.

I'm currently in a 6-month coaching program I paid $7K for. It's the most I've ever paid, but I've been in her programs before (at $3K) and really liked them. I also like her and have a HUGE respect for her both personally and as a businesswoman.

A lot of people worry about getting taken in a mentoring/coaching program. But before you pay someone, be very clear about what you expect. There are no guarantees in business OR life. Understand that you may very well NOT recoup your investment before then end of the program. But look at it as a lifetime investment and ask yourself: Is what you're learning worth the investment over your business life?

For me, what I'm learning from my mentor IS worth the investment over my business life. So I went in with the full understanding that I may NOT make my full investment back at the end of the 6 months. In fact, I don't expect to, simply due to the fact that I'm in startup and startups take time to gain momentum. But her guidance and help for 6 months is still worth the $$$$.

I also wouldn't pay so much money for very basic business skills. I prefer to learn that on my own, mostly through self-study home study courses. You may do better learning basic info with someone to guide you along the way. That's fine. Just understand that and accept it. Don't look at it as "wasted" money.

Realize that any skill you learn you now own -- FOR LIFE. And no one can take that away from you. Ever. So it's very valuable.

Years ago, I learned a very specific plan to manage my personal finances and get out of debt. And I DID get out of all debt! So I KNOW it works. That's a skill I now own -- for life. A very valuable skill. And I'm very grateful to the woman I learned it from.

Now I'm applying that same principle to business. Because it's business and I'm in startup, it's taking longer. But I'm doing something much bigger than paying off debt. So I understand and accept that. The skills a mentor/coach teaches you are worth FAR more than they charge over your business life.]

I rarely look at the price tag of a coaching/mentoring program and say "It's too expensive." I either have the funds at that time or I don't. That's life. But it's rarely "too expensive."
#mentor #paying
  • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
    I agree. I personally mentor/coach internet marketing individuals in all levels and never would PROMISE SPECIFIC INCOME. I do help with some of the work, but at the end of the day... it's my client's company and thus up to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author lotsofsnow
    I do like to help but I have never really considered offering coaching or mentoring.

    Main reason: I don't know what I should charge for it.

    A guarantee of income is always a red flag.

    Yes, I can teach people how to launch a WSO but that does not guarantee income.

    I can teach how to write a sales letter or I can show how to build a business but even if I made $120k per month with a certain business does not mean that somebody else would make the same amount or even any money at all.

    A guaranteed income would only be possible if I would commit to hiring somebody at a given salary. But even promising that would be shady as admittance to a certain school would not include guarantee of graduation and only graduation of a school and the ability to apply the skills learned would result in a certain income.

    Any way you look at it: a guaranteed income as a result of a coaching program in not possible.

    Another story would be this: If I look at a business that is already running I could very well guarantee that I could increase revenue by a certain percentage and I would be willing to work only in exchange for a certain percentage of the added revenue or profit.

    For example: lets say you have a business that makes $1 million profit per year and you just live off new customers. Meaning you do not have a system in place that lets you contact your existing customers. This is very often the case for car dealers or car repair companies, even for larger ones. They just advertise and get new customers but very often they do not market to existing customers.

    I could walk in and make a deal where I would get paid a percentage of the increased profit if I would coach then to implement for example an email marketing system that captures the email addresses of their existing customers and sends out emails on a regular basis.

    The cost would be very limited and it would for sure result in more business if it would be implemented. I guess you could increase the revenue of any business by probably 10% with just some simple thing like this.

    I would not state it as a guarantee but I would structure the deal in a way that aside from maybe some small cost factor they would not pay me anything unless they make more revenue and then they would pay me a percentage.

    But all this would not be coaching somebody how to make money but rather coaching an already existing business or business owner.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
      Good points!

      I find it interesting that Dan Kennedy charges a high fee for his work PLUS royalties. Talk about the best of both worlds...

      The Warrior Forum is an awesome resource for newbies and non-newbies alike, for different reasons. But I think it's a trap for many Warriors regarding mindset. Too many people here get stuck in the "I can't afford it." or "I'm being scammed." mentality.

      I had to get OFF the WF to find what I needed once I got past the very basic, beginner level in IM.

      People often cry "It's too expensive!" but as Jim Rohn says: "No, you just can't afford it!" And yes, there IS a difference.

      The $7K I paid is not normally something I can afford. I make a very modest income in my day job. But, like everyone else, I received some unexpected funds in Dec. and decided to put it to good use -- fast (before I spent it on something stupid, like a car. ).

      We ALL get unexpected funds from time to time. Maybe it's birthday or Christmas money. Maybe it's an unexpected refund or bonus.

      You WILL hear me say "I can't afford it." from time to time. The ebb and flow of money means I can't always afford things, but that's true for everyone. It's the nature of cashflow. But you'll rarely hear me say "It's too expensive." There IS a difference.

      I'm very picky about who I spend that kind of money with though and I can think of very few people I'd give that kind of money to.

      On the one hand, I sympathize with people who feel they're being scammed all the time. Getting taken is, on a certain level, the nature of things. We ALL buy something that's either an outright scam, or just didn't really live up to the hype from time to time.

      HOWEVER, if you're consistently being scammed -- and have been getting scammed for quite a while -- then I blame the buyer, not the seller.

      Yes, said it: I blame the buyer.

      We all have a choice in where to spend our money. Getting scammed is a valuable lesson in WHO not to buy from, or WHAT not to buy. The trick is to learn fast.

      I've rarely been outright scammed, although, like a lot of Warriors, I've bought junk products. It's rarely worth the hassle of pursuing a refund. (Fortunately, most junk products I've bought have been fairly cheap: $17-$37 or so.)

      I long ago found a small circle of people I learn from and buy from consistently. They've all been around for years and have high integrity. I look for testimonials, recommendations and endorsements from others.

      The bottom line is to make good choices. Learn who you can trust and then stick with them over the long term. Don't keep jumping from one product or person to the next.

      Michelle
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      • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
        Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post

        Good points!

        I find it interesting that Dan Kennedy charges a high fee for his work PLUS royalties. Talk about the best of both worlds...

        The Warrior Forum is an awesome resource for newbies and non-newbies alike, for different reasons. But I think it's a trap for many Warriors regarding mindset. Too many people here get stuck in the "I can't afford it." or "I'm being scammed." mentality......
        Dan Kennedy is incredible. Your not so much paying for his knowledge (in my opinion) as you are his contacts and ability to push your product under the recommendation of him. That is really worth the cost of what he is charging. However just looking for solid marketing content? You can find it elsewhere for much cheaper. Hell, some of it is the same marketing material (books) Dan Kennedy learned from himself.


        Yes the Warrior Forum is an amazing resource. But it also is something that needs to be taken with a grain of salt. This forum is made up by people giving their personal opinions, and because of such... anyone could be wrong or misunderstood. I do see some scamming (but it's usually easy to spot.... at least for us members who have been here for years posting). At the end of the day though you can only praise or blame yourself.

        -Brian Tayler
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  • Profile picture of the author HappyLuke
    I mentor people all the time, but I've never charged. i ask them to take me to lunch or do me a favor in return. instead I'm writing my manuals on life and i use my mentees as testimonials of what they've learned.
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  • Profile picture of the author braincandy7
    Thanks for another good post and very good point which we agree with whole heartedly.

    Anyone who guarantees and income is someone to be wary of. The purpose of a good mentor or coach is to help the students get the education and understanding of how to do things themselves.

    For that reason there can be no guarantees other than a guarantee that you will learn and that there will be someone there for them to ask question of when they get stuck or nudge them into action when they get frustrated or sidetracked.

    If said mentor or coach does all the work then whats the point. You have just hired somoene to do a job for you not teach you.
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