Taking your friends and family to the TOP with you...doable or stupid pipedream?

20 replies
Have you ever thought "I want to take my family and friends along with me for my success", maybe by hooking them up with jobs, or money, or whatever.

It SOUNDS good in theory but how does it play out in real life when you try to incorporate your loved ones into your business life?

I think we could all benefit from some wisdom on this topic! Please share your thoughts...
#family #friends #pipedream #stupid #taking #top #youdoable
  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    That situation all comes down to your skills as a personnel evaluator. Can you cut through the bias that comes with them being close to you and make an objective decision as to whether they are talented enough? Many cannot, so a majority of the time I would recommend against it.

    There are always exceptions though.
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  • Profile picture of the author rooze
    One of the toughest days in my business life was having to fire the wife. She's never let me forget it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by rooze View Post

      One of the toughest days in my business life was having to fire the wife. She's never let me forget it.


      You brave man.
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      • Profile picture of the author rooze
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post



        You brave man.
        'twas in jest,
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        • Hire a friend to work for you, in a business you care about.

          You'll never have to ask that question again. The answer will be burned in your retinas.

          fLufF
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          • Here's what a "friend" did in my business:

            -Was never there on time. Then would call on the way in and offer make amends by bringing lunch, invariably from a place where the food is non-vegan. (I was vegan at the time and she bloody well knew it.)

            -Lied on her time sheets.

            -Collected unemployment checks while working for me. (Granted, that's more of a character issue.)

            -Wouldn't do anything I asked her to do, but chose her own tasks according to what she felt like. (If I didn't watch her like a hawk, she'd spend an hour working on a $1 item when I was paying her $12 an hour.)

            -Complained that the equipment was not what she was used to. (Hey, hon, that's what "start-up" means.)

            I tolerated this crap for way longer than I should have and when I did let her go, she got angry.

            Never never never never again.

            fLufF
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            • Profile picture of the author vtotheyouknow
              Sorry to hear that! I knew SOMETHING was up based on that first, rather nebulous response you made lol

              But I can definitely see the moral of your story and thanks for generously sharing it; I imagine how you must have felt in that situation and hopefully your experience can help some other folks avoid similar situations.

              By the way, I noticed you're in SF! Are there any meet ups for Bay Area warriors that you can recommend?

              Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

              Here's what a "friend" did in my business:

              -Was never there on time. Then would call on the way in and offer make amends by bringing lunch, invariably from a place where the food is non-vegan. (I was vegan at the time and she bloody well knew it.)

              -Lied on her time sheets.

              -Collected unemployment checks while working for me. (Granted, that's more of a character issue.)

              -Wouldn't do anything I asked her to do, but chose her own tasks according to what she felt like. (If I didn't watch her like a hawk, she'd spend an hour working on a $1 item when I was paying her $12 an hour.)

              -Complained that the equipment was not what she was used to. (Hey, hon, that's what "start-up" means.)

              I tolerated this crap for way longer than I should have and when I did let her go, she got angry.

              Never never never never again.

              fLufF
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  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    I myself like to separate family and friends from business. What happens when you run into problems?

    Now you have a problem with someone you can't really have a problem with.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan Parker
    Never hire friends. This is what I stick to.

    Also, unless you own a family bakery, family members and business usually don't mix well in the online business world. There are exceptions though - if you have a sibling who's very interested in what you're interested in and has the same drive/vision as you do, you may have found yourself a decent partner.
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  • Profile picture of the author sonicadam123
    This is something that I've always wanted to do but I have serious reservations.

    I know that when the crap hits the fan it can get messy where friends and family are involved.

    You really need to know your friend or family member well if you're going to consider it .. not just whether they have the knowledge or you can teach them what they need to know .. but all those little parts of their character that could make things employing them a chore and potentially explosive situation or could make employing them a great experience all round.

    I know I have friends that I couldn't employ in the future .. but other friends I could .. just depends how well you know them .. but also there are occasions when you "think" you know someone and then you get a shock which happened to me when I got one of my friends a job and I put a good word in for him and was hired on that basis and after that I couldn't get any other deserving friends a job where I worked at the time.

    Pretty difficult decision really IMO.
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  • Profile picture of the author rooze
    I hired (under duress) the son of the wife's best friend to work in the shipping department. The kid was only 22 years old but I've seen more work in a sick note. His feet never left the ground, he'd 'shuffle' everywhere like some two-legged snail.
    'Course I couldn't fire him as life wouldn't have been worth living.

    I had to remind myself daily that he was tax-deductible and accountable in much the same way as a charitable donation
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  • Profile picture of the author IMHunter
    I tried but had bad experiences. They don't take the work seriously. They are not on time. They don't finish the work on deadlines.
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    • I know that when the crap hits the fan it can get messy where friends and family are involved.

      Want to know how messy? Learn from the story of Gallagher, the (watermelon) comic:

      In the early 1990s Gallagher's younger brother, Ron Gallagher, asked him for permission to perform shows using Gallagher's trademark Sledge-O-Matic routine. Gallagher granted his permission on the condition that Ron and his manager made it clear in promotional materials that it was Ron Gallagher, not Leo Gallagher, who was performing. After several years, Ron began promoting his act as Gallagher Too or Gallagher Two. In some instances, Ron's act was promoted in a way that provided no clue to prospective attendees that they were not seeing the original Gallagher.

      Gallagher initially attempted to stop his brother from performing these activities by requesting that he not use the Sledge-O-Matic routine. These efforts proved futile, as Ron kept touring as Gallagher Too and using the Sledge-O-Matic routine. In August 2000, Gallagher sued his brother for trademark violations and false advertising. The courts ultimately sided with Leo Gallagher, and an injunction was granted prohibiting Ron from performing any act that impersonates his brother in small clubs and venues. This injunction also prohibited Ron from intentionally bearing likeness to his brother.

      What this doesn't tell you is that Gallagher's own family sided with Ron, who repaid his brother's assistance by stealing his routine and impersonating him. The last I heard Gallagher was estranged from his family.

      fLufF
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  • Profile picture of the author SandyWF
    It depends on the family member or friend you're looking to help out. What is their work ethic like? Remember that some will take advantage of the fact that they're your "mother, sister, brother, father, uncle, friend, etc." and slack off. BUT and I have to add the but my sister works in my bakery part time after school and she's an amazing asset!
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  • Profile picture of the author PowerEdge
    Originally Posted by vtotheyouknow View Post

    Have you ever thought "I want to take my family and friends along with me for my success", maybe by hooking them up with jobs, or money, or whatever.

    It SOUNDS good in theory but how does it play out in real life when you try to incorporate your loved ones into your business life?

    I think we could all benefit from some wisdom on this topic! Please share your thoughts...
    That's like basically saying that their dreams have to be YOUR dreams. What happens in real life, is people feel burdened by the shadow your success casts upon them, and they feel like you are expecting far too much of them.

    They may love you, so they will probably try to fulfil your expectations, heck, they may even think it would be good or great; but what will happen, is they will buckle underneath the pressure.

    You may not feel like the pressure is there, especially if you are doing most of the work for them, or if you are helping them; BUT the pressure is there even more, because everything they do upon accepting that from you... has to be up to a par.

    That par may not be set by you, but by them, assuming and thinking they have to be this certain person now, otherwise you will be disappointed, or think they are not appreciative etc...

    It also cuts out the whole process of a person readying themselves mentally and emotionally for a certain situation, by working toward it themselves, or by creating the goals and dreams themselves. What happens, is the person is immersed in something which they cannot even handle, though maybe great, it is still beyond their threshold of management in that point and time.

    Therefore their inability to do what they want to be able to do in that situation makes them feel now like a failure, and they become "hyper-aware" of disappointing everyone around them now... especially you.

    Not only this, but due to the fact that a natural process is cut out, is this even something the person wants? Sure it sounds great, BUT, it ONLY sounded that way, AFTER you brought it up. It was not something this person naturally is trying to attain, as a main goal in their life; most likely.

    EVEN if this same person whines about having no money, or having bills to pay; that whining may have only been a simple letting off of steam, and not a real cry for help at all. Even if this person needs a great job, or money, or some kind of something you could offer... they are simply just going to feel so trapped when you do give it... because now you are so clearly, asking them to maintain it, and make more of it etc...etc... etc....

    You may not see it that way, because you are just trying to help... you want to do some good for people. But it gets into this vicious cycle, where the person suddenly begins to depend on you, more and more, emotionally and financially now; because you are showing them to basically get, without any real process or effort from their end, and ESPECIALLY without themselves having come up with the idea to begin with.

    Now they look to you, for what is right and wrong. Now they look to you, to solve their problems. You are that successful guy. Now you are like their mentor, and they can't help but feel inferior, and as if you know more, because you are showing them such great things you did... your way....and everyone should do it too... so they look to you to get those answers.

    The huge problem therein, is you can't full fill those expectations that will arise either.

    I am explaining this from a long-term perspective, if you actually did what you are saying. I am talking about actually getting seriously involved in other people's lives, to help them accomplish some kind of big goal...with your mentor-ship, your money, or anything like that.

    There is so much going on, when you step down that road, that NO ONE is prepared for. Your role would feel like a parenting role by the end of it, and you would feel drained from all the spoon feeding. The other person too, would feel hurt for somehow becoming so dependant on you, and no one would really be able to piece together anything, except an acknowledgement of INTENSE disappointment.


    A possible solution is to ask for an investment from the other person, and ONLY do something if the person themselves have clearly mapped out and planned out their goals, and have already begun trying to reach them; but they are maybe hitting a road block that you can help them over.

    That is a case where the other person is leading, and you are not saying "hey do this, or why not that... or you can become successful if I get you that job"...

    It is more beneficial that way to both parties, that way the seed was always planted by the other person, and the expectations are now coming from the other person, upon themselves... therefore they can learn on their own what they like, and should want... and all of those natural and good things.

    Never forget that you had struggles too, and you had hard times. If everyone went in there and saved you every moment you felt a little bit of pain; you'd be pretty damn spoiled, and worse... unable to really function without utterly depending on everyone else.

    Do a bit of tough love... you can give the love, you can help; but do the tough part too.

    ~Sincerely... someone who has been there, and it was beyond painful!
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    • Profile picture of the author vtotheyouknow
      Good stuff, man.

      You really got into the nitty gritty and I agree with what you said. It would probably sound like a good deal to THEM until they realize that they're doing it more for extrinsic reasons but 9 times out of 10, would lack any sort intrinsic motivation to write your copy, or manage your affiliates or whatever.

      Anyway, real great psychological probing in your response, I bet you write great copy!

      Originally Posted by PowerEdge View Post

      That's like basically saying that their dreams have to be YOUR dreams. What happens in real life, is people feel burdened by the shadow your success casts upon them, and they feel like you are expecting far too much of them.

      They may love you, so they will probably try to fulfil your expectations, heck, they may even think it would be good or great; but what will happen, is they will buckle underneath the pressure.

      You may not feel like the pressure is there, especially if you are doing most of the work for them, or if you are helping them; BUT the pressure is there even more, because everything they do upon accepting that from you... has to be up to a par.

      That par may not be set by you, but by them, assuming and thinking they have to be this certain person now, otherwise you will be disappointed, or think they are not appreciative etc...

      It also cuts out the whole process of a person readying themselves mentally and emotionally for a certain situation, by working toward it themselves, or by creating the goals and dreams themselves. What happens, is the person is immersed in something which they cannot even handle, though maybe great, it is still beyond their threshold of management in that point and time.

      Therefore their inability to do what they want to be able to do in that situation makes them feel now like a failure, and they become "hyper-aware" of disappointing everyone around them now... especially you.

      Not only this, but due to the fact that a natural process is cut out, is this even something the person wants? Sure it sounds great, BUT, it ONLY sounded that way, AFTER you brought it up. It was not something this person naturally is trying to attain, as a main goal in their life; most likely.

      EVEN if this same person whines about having no money, or having bills to pay; that whining may have only been a simple letting off of steam, and not a real cry for help at all. Even if this person needs a great job, or money, or some kind of something you could offer... they are simply just going to feel so trapped when you do give it... because now you are so clearly, asking them to maintain it, and make more of it etc...etc... etc....

      You may not see it that way, because you are just trying to help... you want to do some good for people. But it gets into this vicious cycle, where the person suddenly begins to depend on you, more and more, emotionally and financially now; because you are showing them to basically get, without any real process or effort from their end, and ESPECIALLY without themselves having come up with the idea to begin with.

      Now they look to you, for what is right and wrong. Now they look to you, to solve their problems. You are that successful guy. Now you are like their mentor, and they can't help but feel inferior, and as if you know more, because you are showing them such great things you did... your way....and everyone should do it too... so they look to you to get those answers.

      The huge problem therein, is you can't full fill those expectations that will arise either.

      I am explaining this from a long-term perspective, if you actually did what you are saying. I am talking about actually getting seriously involved in other people's lives, to help them accomplish some kind of big goal...with your mentor-ship, your money, or anything like that.

      There is so much going on, when you step down that road, that NO ONE is prepared for. Your role would feel like a parenting role by the end of it, and you would feel drained from all the spoon feeding. The other person too, would feel hurt for somehow becoming so dependant on you, and no one would really be able to piece together anything, except an acknowledgement of INTENSE disappointment.


      A possible solution is to ask for an investment from the other person, and ONLY do something if the person themselves have clearly mapped out and planned out their goals, and have already begun trying to reach them; but they are maybe hitting a road block that you can help them over.

      That is a case where the other person is leading, and you are not saying "hey do this, or why not that... or you can become successful if I get you that job"...

      It is more beneficial that way to both parties, that way the seed was always planted by the other person, and the expectations are now coming from the other person, upon themselves... therefore they can learn on their own what they like, and should want... and all of those natural and good things.

      Never forget that you had struggles too, and you had hard times. If everyone went in there and saved you every moment you felt a little bit of pain; you'd be pretty damn spoiled, and worse... unable to really function without utterly depending on everyone else.

      Do a bit of tough love... you can give the love, you can help; but do the tough part too.

      ~Sincerely... someone who has been there, and it was beyond painful!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5975701].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author st0ned
    DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT HIRE FRIENDS AND/OR FAMILY!!!!!!

    Once we make it I think it is a natural response to want to bring those closest to us to the top as well. I have done this on a number of occasions and EVERY time it has turned out bad. I will NEVER hire another person who I am currently associated with.

    One situation, I taught my best friend EVERYTHING. He got greedy over a couple of bucks when he was already making a solid income and completely ****ed me over. Not only did I lose a friend of 10 years, but I also lost a lot of my income due to him using my exact techniques to compete with me.

    While that was the worse of them all, every single time I mixed friendship and family with business it turned out negatively. Not worth losing your relationship with these people IMO.

    Some people manage to do it and get by with no issues. However you will find MANY who will advise against it.
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    • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
      Unfortunately, hiring friends and family isn't the only way to ruin relationships. I've known people who become successful, and lost friends just by virtue of being successful.

      People seem to be intimidated by, and even resentful of, anyone close to them that enjoys great success. Regardless of how nice you are, or how hard you try to keep success from changing you, they will say "He's different now that he's got money - he's not the same person".

      Even the generosity you show will often be demonized - "he just wants to show off, or make us feel inferior".

      Not that I'm tryin to rain on your parade, one of my fondest dreams is to be able to share my success with my friends and family But be prepared - it doesn't always turn out like you would think...
      Signature

      I just added this sig so I can refer to it in my posts...

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  • Profile picture of the author Des Lau
    I had a friend who we became business partners with some years ago. Never again.

    I ended up doing all the work (web design business) and at the end, I was single handedly managing clients, work and accounts, and picking up his slack. He even had the nerve to give me a guilt-trip of where the clients are coming from when I raised the issue that I'm doing everything, I remember being so angry at the time. I closed the business down and he turned on me figuring out ways to keep the business name/accounts and clients, even though it was a 50/50 partnership and from the beginning it was both or nothing.

    Needless to say, we are definitely not friends anymore!
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  • Profile picture of the author rmolina88
    Teach them how to do it themselves rather than hiring them on.
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