Sex Sells But Who's Converting?

[gr8tocre8]

I would love some advice on this - this is what's happening:

Months ago, as a test, I wrote an article on ezinearticles in the Sexual Relationship category. Somehow, it took off like wildfire, and without me having done anything in months now, it's currently one of the most viewed articles in the whole category, as well as number 1 in google for its keyword, producing around 100 unique url click-throughs per day.

However, the Sex Advice market has taken a major plunge, seemingly along with the bad economy. I've tested my url with 5 different products over 2 months, from several different aff networks, including Clickbank and Paydotcom.

Conversions are pitiful. On average, it takes around 1500+ unique url clicks just to make one sale (avg price of products I've tried is around $30). The products I've tested with are all highly targeted, with great sales pages.

I've spoken with all the owners of the sites I've tested, and they all report the same problem - virtually non-existent conversions.

My question to you is this:

1. Does anyone know of an affiliate site I can send my traffic to that has decent conversions in this category, and if not:
2. Do you have any ideas on how to turn 100 unique click-throughs into money, given the above information?

I feel like I'm throwing money out the window here - if you have a targeted site which is converting well, let me know!

[Ron Killian]

This is just a thought, but maybe try selling your own product? Reason I say that, you would know how it's converting and could tweak it for better performance. Could be the programs you've tried selling do not have the best converting sales pages? Or did they sell before and it just dropped off?

Many things sell besides Sex... I guess the statement "Sex Sells" would all depend upon your morals and values, personally myself I would not sell anything related to this category.

I agree with Ron though, why not create your own products...

James

[jmidas]

Have you tried any CPA/per lead offers that are free to the customer? Maybe even a low pricepoint of $30 is too high. Maybe free will work??

[honestbizpro]

Originally Posted by jmidas

Have you tried any CPA/per lead offers that are free to the customer? Maybe even a low pricepoint of $30 is too high. Maybe free will work??

Yes you can apply some CPA and Dating signups....everyone wants to hook up eventually. And everyone knows things do not work out...thats why Travis the Bum Marketer has an affiliate ebook on "Making up".

You just need to be a little creative and see the subniches in Relationship Dating.

Have you thought about SpyGear, spy cams, GPS, thumbdrive and cell phone smartchip copier affiliate programs?

[gr8tocre8]

Originally Posted by Ron Killian

This is just a thought, but maybe try selling your own product? Reason I say that, you would know how it's converting and could tweak it for better performance. Could be the programs you've tried selling do not have the best converting sales pages? Or did they sell before and it just dropped off?

I actually thought about it, but I don't know the first thing about writing a book on this topic, lol. I just happened to luck out on one of my articles.

Oh, and those sales pages did convert well up until about 6 months or so, but they all dropped.

[gr8tocre8]

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Many things sell besides Sex... I guess the statement "Sex Sells" would all depend upon your morals and values, personally myself I would not sell anything related to this category.

I agree with Ron though, why not create your own products...

James

If you read my article you'd see that there's nothing immoral about it - it's sex advice - like "how to be better in the bedroom", etc.

[Marty S]

Capture - email. Stop trying to convert for the sale. Don't send them anywhere but to your aweber. If you dont want to bother with this, then at the very least put an adsense banner on the page. You will make $5/day.

[Jonathan 2.0]

Originally Posted by majidmaskat

i always knew that the darkside is very profitabe...now i am just waiting for the system that will allow me to use the darkside for a profit!!!

Nothing dark about sexual relationships. I don't see anything wrong with teaching people this topic.

[gr8tocre8]

Originally Posted by Marty S

Capture - email. Stop trying to convert for the sale. Don't send them anywhere but to your aweber. If you dont want to bother with this, then at the very least put an adsense banner on the page. You will make $5/day.

Wow, great advice, thanks! I've never built a list before (I must have some strange resistance to it), but I love both that idea and the adsense idea. Thanks again, you rocketh!

[monopuff]

You may be getting a lot of younger traffic, teenagers and such that are just not in a position to buy a product.

good points about the list building .. very very important .. build a relatonship with your list, don't try to sell them until weeks , maybe months later .. obviously your writing style catches enough attention to put you in the top position you mentioned, so give them more of that.. quality free content

[gr8tocre8]

Originally Posted by jmidas

Have you tried any CPA/per lead offers that are free to the customer? Maybe even a low pricepoint of $30 is too high. Maybe free will work??

Originally Posted by honestbizpro

Yes you can apply some CPA and Dating signups....everyone wants to hook up eventually. And everyone knows things do not work out...thats why Travis the Bum Marketer has an affiliate ebook on "Making up".

Have you thought about SpyGear, spy cams, GPS, thumbdrive and cell phone smartchip copier affiliate programs?

It's a bit tricky - because the article/resourcebox is very targeted (here's a link to my article - just scroll down to the call to action to see what I mean), so based on what I know, I'm limited to where I can send them in order to convert - or am I wrong about that perhaps?

[Chris Kent]

Depends. If it is sex advice like "different positions" then in the recession, people will be making less of these discretionary purposes.

On the other hand, if it is to cure sexual problems or fulfilling some emotional need then it should convert.

btw I run several websites on premature ejaculation and there has been a definite increase in the last 6 months that I attribute to the economic situation and men losing confidence in all aspects of their lives, including in the bedroom.

[Stanley Specks]

Ron has some good advice. Definitely if you're trying to make BIG money create your own product, I'm always looking for original stuff..

[I.M.Retired]

Tantra Sex topics seem to convert well.

[Ron Killian]

You could always outsource the creation process, though it's a gamble.

[gr8tocre8]

Originally Posted by ProductCreator

Depends. If it is sex advice like "different positions" then in the recession, people will be making less of these discretionary purposes.

On the other hand, if it is to cure sexual problems or fulfilling some emotional need then it should convert.

I never thought about it that way - good tip for future articles! I think my article has a little of both, so it falls somewhere in the middle.

[Emmanuel Betinis]

Originally Posted by gr8tocre8

On average, it takes around 1500+ unique url clicks just to make one sale (avg price of products I've tried is around $30).

Is it possible the publisher just isn't paying you? I'm almost certain Clickbank publishers can do this, but not sure about PDC & Co...

Not to point the finger away from you and onto the publisher - I'm merely trying to help you by keeping the mind open to any and all possibilities.

Originally Posted by gr8tocre8

Conversions are pitiful. The products are all highly targeted, with great sales pages.

Is it just me or is there a contradiction in that sentence?

[UndeniableSpirit]

First of all, there is absolutely nothing wrong with working within this market unless you are promoting something very gross and immoral.

Sex is a necessary part of life. Something which our society has put a fairly large taboo on with regards to talking about it any place other than the bedroom. But it really depends on your beliefs.

With that said, I worked within that niche for a fair amount of time (3 months at the beginning of last year). I created a product that costed $20 - for penetration pricing purposes - and my conversions were horrible. In that 3 months with tens of thousands of article views and url clicks I only had about $1500 profit to show for it.

I agree that this is a niche that one may save for the future once the economy has recovered and times are not as hard financially for the general population.

[markwinder]

Awesome thread here guys!

Gr8tocr8 - I think the best piece of advice you've received so far is to build a list. It's simple and effective AND you get to continually market to that list for as long as they remain subscribed. The key is to provide your list with an "ethical bribe" - ie, something you give them for free in return for them giving you their name and email.

And to make it even more effective for your... One key blunder that a lot of noobs make (guilty as charged!), is to give away the freebie too soon. Any decent autoresponder (and all web-based 3rd party A/R's - aka aWeber), require your list to be double opted in (ie, they've confirmed their email address). Just make sure that you don't send your new subscriber to the download page prior to them opting in for that crucial second time - otherwise you're left with a useless "half-sub" that you can't mail to...

I can give you a TON more information that might help you - just PM me if you want more (don't want to fill up this post with non-relavent info).

[mmpieri]

Try your own product to see how it converts. I'm saying this because I've just completed ebook about child's education. At the moment, I'm just testing it and I must say that it's selling very well. Probably, it could be because of what I'm offering with it as well.

If you're interested just take a look at Maximising Your Children's Success

[gr8tocre8]

Originally Posted by markwinder

Awesome thread here guys!

Gr8tocr8 - I think the best piece of advice you've received so far is to build a list. It's simple and effective AND you get to continually market to that list for as long as they remain subscribed. The key is to provide your list with an "ethical bribe" - ie, something you give them for free in return for them giving you their name and email.

And to make it even more effective for your... One key blunder that a lot of noobs make (guilty as charged!), is to give away the freebie too soon. Any decent autoresponder (and all web-based 3rd party A/R's - aka aWeber), require your list to be double opted in (ie, they've confirmed their email address). Just make sure that you don't send your new subscriber to the download page prior to them opting in for that crucial second time - otherwise you're left with a useless "half-sub" that you can't mail to...

I can give you a TON more information that might help you - just PM me if you want more (don't want to fill up this post with non-relavent info).

Wow, thanks Mark, that was really helpful. I'm one of those IM'ers who's resisting listbuilding like the pest - mainly because it seems like a huge amount of work to set up...or am I way off here? I would actually love to have opt-ins on several of my product pages, but thus far, I seem to have convinced myself that it's a major hassle - but that's probably where I'm way off, lol.

[TimRobinson]

Definitely start building a list, then you can send them follow up information and multiple offers, rather than just the 1 sale and they are gone.

Build a huge autoresponder sequence and you're set

[jmidas]

After seeing the article/call to action, I agree - build a list.

Maybe you can do a free report that answer's your call to action (the free report can even be losely based on the product you are selling - something to hype it to make them want more of it...) - get visitors to opt in to get that so you have a list, then surround the page with other "somewhat" related cpa offers to at least possibly capture some dollars from visits. Then, once you have your list, you can build a bit more relationship, then sell whatever you want to sell.

[Emmanuel Betinis]

Originally Posted by gr8tocre8

I'm one of those IM'ers who's resisting listbuilding like the pest - mainly because it seems like a huge amount of work to set up...or am I way off here?

You're way off.

[gr8tocre8]

Originally Posted by anapest

You're way off.

Haha, I see! Good to know - I think it's time for me to get cracking with those lists.

[Ron Killian]

Originally Posted by mmpieri

Try your own product to see how it converts. I'm saying this because I've just completed ebook about child's education. At the moment, I'm just testing it and I must say that it's selling very well. Probably, it could be because of what I'm offering with it as well.

If you're interested just take a look at Maximising Your Children's Success

Not sure how this relates to the niche the marketer is in. More like self promotion.

[sylviad]

Originally Posted by gr8tocre8

Wow, thanks Mark, that was really helpful. I'm one of those IM'ers who's resisting listbuilding like the pest - mainly because it seems like a huge amount of work to set up...or am I way off here? I would actually love to have opt-ins on several of my product pages, but thus far, I seem to have convinced myself that it's a major hassle - but that's probably where I'm way off, lol.

gr8tocre8...

Ignore anapest (just kidding)

But it does take a fair amount of work. Setting up the system is not that difficult, but finding and/or creating a stream of messages for your AR is a huge amount of work. For best results, you'll want to start with around 30 messages to get you through several months on auto pilot. You can start with 7, which is easily achievable, but you will need to continually add more messages over time to keep in contact with your members.

Regarding your OP...

The news that your niche is not converting is a bit surprising, since it was revealed on some TV show the other day that during tough economic times like this, sex gets a boost. Supposedly, it's because people are so stressed they are looking for a release and sex has long been the answer.

Have you checked out the product you're promoting? Run it through Google Trends and see what it reveals. Look to see if the product is gaining in popularity or falling. Are there more or less affiliates marketing it? Look for a conversion rate. Get a peek at the product itself and see for yourself whether it has true value or not.

If products are bad or don't work, word will spread and they will not sell or they will bring a lot of refunds.

The other thing to consider is how many others are promoting it. Run a search for the product and see how many competitors come up. Check out their sites and see what they are doing and whether you can do something to top them.

How many similar products are coming up for your search term? It's possible there are too many products competing and taking the sales. Take note of which products come up when you search using your keywords (not product names, but topic keywords). Check how many top listings are the vendor sites and how many are affiliate sites.

If the vendor site is at the top, there's a good chance it's doing well, whereas you could get lots of affiliate sites that aren't making sales. Track a few of the Adwords ads for awhile because if they are running over a period of time you can be pretty sure the advertiser is making sales.

Just a few ideas for you.

Sylvia

[Shane F]

Im a newbie but isnt it easier to do CPA and get $2-4 per "free signup" on these sites?

[markwinder]

Originally Posted by gr8tocre8

Wow, thanks Mark, that was really helpful. I'm one of those IM'ers who's resisting listbuilding like the pest - mainly because it seems like a huge amount of work to set up...or am I way off here? I would actually love to have opt-ins on several of my product pages, but thus far, I seem to have convinced myself that it's a major hassle - but that's probably where I'm way off, lol.

Actually - I have to say... your resistance is futile! LOL

Seriously - it can either be really easy or really difficult to set up your autoresponder list. The first time I did it, I was attacking it without a plan, and trying to figure it out as I went... THAT took a long time... I was using a server-based A/R that was relatively easy to use, but has its "quirks". But the ultimate issue was content - creating appropriate easy to follow content that had a flow.

Now that I've done it, I realized that I could have made my life a LOT easier if I had a plan BEFORE writing anything. SO, with that in mind, I created a template of my first 10 or so email subjects before writing the emails themselves. Then, it was a case of sitting down and writing them out in Text pad. From then, I decided to try aWeber, so I set up an account online.

Time spent:
+ planning the emails: roughly 30 minutes to draft up 10 - 12 subject ideas. You need at least 7 - more is better. The only key is - stay ahead of the first person in your autoresponder.
+ writing the emails: I cranked out 6 inside an hour. I was in a coffee house that was full of noise and distractions - probably could have done this sooner... but I'm pleased with the outcome. 6 more to go for the next round.
+ creating aWeber account - 15 minutes
+ inserting pre-written messages into aWeber - 20 minutes (tops).

Essentially, within 2 hours you can have your first 6 or so emails queued up in your autoresponder - if you space them a few days apart, you've now given yourself over 2 weeks of buffer before you need anything else in there.

Putting the forms on your page is SUPER easy. aWeber gives you the form code and all you do is drop it in your web page (any decent autoresponder does this). And if you use Wordpress - it's even simpler with the aWeber add-on. Because I wanted to see if I could do it, I actually dropped the Aweber code with a picture of my ebook givaway into one of the columns of my blog. Now with that one drop of code, it's on every page of the blog. Easy!

Now - don't get me wrong - having 30+ messages in your A/R is a fantastic idea. BUT, you don't need to worry about writing them all now - just get the first few in there and you're ready to roll!

Finally - I was talking to a friend of mine who's a super-affiliate. It took him a few years of no list-building before a mutual friend told him to get on the program. He figured he'd sent a million people to various pages... a lousy 1% uptake on an opt-in would have built him a list of 10,000 people. And that's with a lousy uptake... imagine what it would be like if you didn't have to re-buy that traffic? THAT'S why its a great idea to have a list...

PM me if you have any more questions! Happy to help!

[dndoseller]

I use the email subscription feature of feedburner to build my list.

Instead of an autoresponder I just write a quick blog post once a week.

This is so easy it's ridiculous. I have 500 subscribers in a couple of months.

[gr8tocre8]

Originally Posted by sylviad

gr8tocre8...

Ignore anapest (just kidding)

But it does take a fair amount of work. Setting up the system is not that difficult, but finding and/or creating a stream of messages for your AR is a huge amount of work. For best results, you'll want to start with around 30 messages to get you through several months on auto pilot. You can start with 7, which is easily achievable, but you will need to continually add more messages over time to keep in contact with your members.

Regarding your OP...

The news that your niche is not converting is a bit surprising, since it was revealed on some TV show the other day that during tough economic times like this, sex gets a boost. Supposedly, it's because people are so stressed they are looking for a release and sex has long been the answer.

Have you checked out the product you're promoting? Run it through Google Trends and see what it reveals. Look to see if the product is gaining in popularity or falling. Are there more or less affiliates marketing it? Look for a conversion rate. Get a peek at the product itself and see for yourself whether it has true value or not.

If products are bad or don't work, word will spread and they will not sell or they will bring a lot of refunds.

The other thing to consider is how many others are promoting it. Run a search for the product and see how many competitors come up. Check out their sites and see what they are doing and whether you can do something to top them.

How many similar products are coming up for your search term? It's possible there are too many products competing and taking the sales. Take note of which products come up when you search using your keywords (not product names, but topic keywords). Check how many top listings are the vendor sites and how many are affiliate sites.

If the vendor site is at the top, there's a good chance it's doing well, whereas you could get lots of affiliate sites that aren't making sales. Track a few of the Adwords ads for awhile because if they are running over a period of time you can be pretty sure the advertiser is making sales.

Just a few ideas for you.

Sylvia

Wow, thanks Sylvia, that was really helpful!!

[gr8tocre8]

Originally Posted by markwinder

Actually - I have to say... your resistance is futile! LOL

Seriously - it can either be really easy or really difficult to set up your autoresponder list. The first time I did it, I was attacking it without a plan, and trying to figure it out as I went... THAT took a long time... I was using a server-based A/R that was relatively easy to use, but has its "quirks". But the ultimate issue was content - creating appropriate easy to follow content that had a flow.

Now that I've done it, I realized that I could have made my life a LOT easier if I had a plan BEFORE writing anything. SO, with that in mind, I created a template of my first 10 or so email subjects before writing the emails themselves. Then, it was a case of sitting down and writing them out in Text pad. From then, I decided to try aWeber, so I set up an account online.

Time spent:
+ planning the emails: roughly 30 minutes to draft up 10 - 12 subject ideas. You need at least 7 - more is better. The only key is - stay ahead of the first person in your autoresponder.
+ writing the emails: I cranked out 6 inside an hour. I was in a coffee house that was full of noise and distractions - probably could have done this sooner... but I'm pleased with the outcome. 6 more to go for the next round.
+ creating aWeber account - 15 minutes
+ inserting pre-written messages into aWeber - 20 minutes (tops).

Essentially, within 2 hours you can have your first 6 or so emails queued up in your autoresponder - if you space them a few days apart, you've now given yourself over 2 weeks of buffer before you need anything else in there.

Putting the forms on your page is SUPER easy. aWeber gives you the form code and all you do is drop it in your web page (any decent autoresponder does this). And if you use Wordpress - it's even simpler with the aWeber add-on. Because I wanted to see if I could do it, I actually dropped the Aweber code with a picture of my ebook givaway into one of the columns of my blog. Now with that one drop of code, it's on every page of the blog. Easy!

Now - don't get me wrong - having 30+ messages in your A/R is a fantastic idea. BUT, you don't need to worry about writing them all now - just get the first few in there and you're ready to roll!

Finally - I was talking to a friend of mine who's a super-affiliate. It took him a few years of no list-building before a mutual friend told him to get on the program. He figured he'd sent a million people to various pages... a lousy 1% uptake on an opt-in would have built him a list of 10,000 people. And that's with a lousy uptake... imagine what it would be like if you didn't have to re-buy that traffic? THAT'S why its a great idea to have a list...

PM me if you have any more questions! Happy to help!

Mark, thanks so much for taking the time out to write this - very helpful information!

[Daniel Scott]

It's definitely harder to sell in this niche due to economic climates, but certainly not impossible.

I'm in this niche, getting about 1% conversion rate at the moment - however I have only had about 200 clicks so far to my page since I changed to PDC (which is converting WAY better than CB) so it's not exactly statistically valid yet.

Gabrielle Moore (I'm pretty sure that's a pen name and "she" is actually a guy) had her affiliate manager contacted me who SAID their page is converting at 3%. I doubt this is accurate, perhaps 3% based on certain traffic sources. Personally I think the product is pretty crappy, and as I said I have my doubts about the accuracy of that statement, but that may be an option for you. Buy the product, see what you think, and if you're happy with it, promote it. Personally I thought it was crappy, but there are a lot of testimonials on her (his?) site.

Having said that, I am having my copy re-written by a pro from this forum, who guarantees a 2% CR. Should be done in a couple of weeks, so if you want to PM me I can give you some details and we can talk more.

Definitely build a list though. It's easy to do, and definitely worth the effort. Also, your list usually has much higher conversions than "regular" traffic. Plus you can survey them etc and figure out what you are doing wrong, or can do better.

-Dan

[gr8tocre8]

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

It's definitely harder to sell in this niche due to economic climates, but certainly not impossible.

I'm in this niche, getting about 1% conversion rate at the moment - however I have only had about 200 clicks so far to my page since I changed to PDC (which is converting WAY better than CB) so it's not exactly statistically valid yet.

Gabrielle Moore (I'm pretty sure that's a pen name and "she" is actually a guy) had her affiliate manager contacted me who SAID their page is converting at 3%. I doubt this is accurate, perhaps 3% based on certain traffic sources. Personally I think the product is pretty crappy, and as I said I have my doubts about the accuracy of that statement, but that may be an option for you. Buy the product, see what you think, and if you're happy with it, promote it. Personally I thought it was crappy, but there are a lot of testimonials on her (his?) site.

Having said that, I am having my copy re-written by a pro from this forum, who guarantees a 2% CR. Should be done in a couple of weeks, so if you want to PM me I can give you some details and we can talk more.

Definitely build a list though. It's easy to do, and definitely worth the effort. Also, your list usually has much higher conversions than "regular" traffic. Plus you can survey them etc and figure out what you are doing wrong, or can do better.

-Dan

Thanks Dan, great info!

[gr8tocre8]

All of your helpful responses really made me think - this is why I love this forum!

I ended up finding a directory of free e-books in the category of my article. I'm going to compile a few of those and re-write it into a product that is hyper-targeted. And of course, throw CPA aff links in the book. Plus I'll give them a bunch of the books I found as free bonuses. And do the opt-in list.

Considering that conversions in this niche are virtually non-existent these days, I'm thinking about selling the book for $4. At the same time, perhaps $2 is a better price - this is where I'm asking for some input again:

What is a price that "everyone can afford". In other words, if I set up a strong sales page, what do you think is the price that will bring in most profits - $2, $4, or____?

Experience with this, anyone?

Again, thanks for all your input so far - you guys seriously rock!

[Sticky Articles]

Maybe try getting your traffic into your autoresponder instead of
trying to sell them right away.

I'm seeing alot of sex related info products on the market now
in the whole seduction community and people still seem to be
buying.

[garyt]

Yes, it is extremely difficult to sell sex advice, whatever the economic situation. Been there, done that, what's next?

Guys just seem to think they are already too good and in any case, they can get free advice so why pay for it? So the work around is to sell something related, maybe a physical product or a dating service.

As for list building in this niche, I have tried that too. Maybe I did not try hard enough but spam filters get in the way because of the topic. Need to think about this one... ummm

Anyway, great advice you are getting here

[waltham]

you can find it all for free!

Plus people are more sensitive to the fact your tracking their every move...

offer up some details on your policy of keeping no details on your customers

secure purchasing via proxy!!!!

[Daniel Scott]

Originally Posted by gr8tocre8

All of your helpful responses really made me think - this is why I love this forum!

I ended up finding a directory of free e-books in the category of my article. I'm going to compile a few of those and re-write it into a product that is hyper-targeted. And of course, throw CPA aff links in the book. Plus I'll give them a bunch of the books I found as free bonuses. And do the opt-in list.

Considering that conversions in this niche are virtually non-existent these days, I'm thinking about selling the book for $4. At the same time, perhaps $2 is a better price - this is where I'm asking for some input again:

What is a price that "everyone can afford". In other words, if I set up a strong sales page, what do you think is the price that will bring in most profits - $2, $4, or____?

Experience with this, anyone?

Again, thanks for all your input so far - you guys seriously rock!

If this is your line of thinking, you may as well offer the ebook for free and try and make it go viral.

Dropping price doesn't guarantee more sales. In fact, often it can DECREASE sales because people think there is something wrong with your product (you are selling it ridiculously cheap after all).

The only point in making them pay such a low price is to have a list of "buyers", but even then I think you would get more benefit (since you're using CPA) to just get the ebook to go viral and have people click on the links.

-Dan

[Mangozoom]

Sex sells in the City where I live ... but that is another story.

Whilst you look for a product to sell why not put Adsense on your site.

John