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How far is WAY to far ???

by add2it
24 replies
How far can a customer go that asks for a refund after the guarantee period and is offered a partial refund to get this resolved?

Can he leave this on your blog and voice messages of similar content on your answering machine... ?



Would you agree that this is a response he deserves... ?



What do you think?
  • Profile picture of the author theyoungmarketer
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author add2it
      Originally Posted by theyoungmarketer View Post

      I'm certain that's illegal.. maybe you should hire someone to spam his blog
      I agree it's illegal to make threats like that... that's why I reported him including his full name, full address and phone number to the FBI.

      But doing the same on his blog would just lower me to his level... don't think that's the solution.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mangozoom
    Think they want a refund ...
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    • Profile picture of the author add2it
      Originally Posted by Mangozoom View Post

      Think they want a refund ...
      Of course... in this case, he wants a refund of $77 for a script ($27) and the installation service ($50). The refund period that expired was 90 days. The script was installed on his server and works fine. The reason he wants a refund is because his web host doesn't allow him to email 500 subscribers in one go.

      I offered to install it again for free on a different web host without such limitations or refund the script only ($27).

      Not fair enough after the refund period expired?
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      • Profile picture of the author dwshoup
        Originally Posted by add2it View Post

        Of course... in this case, he wants a refund of $77 for a script ($27) and the installation service ($50). The refund period that expired was 90 days. The script was installed on his server and works fine. The reason he wants a refund is because his web host doesn't allow him to email 500 subscribers in one go.

        I offered to install it again for free on a different web host without such limitations or refund the script only ($27).

        Not fair enough after the refund period expired?
        I would say that you have been more than fair. He doesn't deserve a refund after the guarantee period is over and if you performed the service he paid for, offering the price of the script is quite generous.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dixiebelle
          Hey Frank: I just checked and worshipwithyou.com is down. Could have just happened or could have been connected to the 500 minimum mailing.

          It's good that you informed the authorities. When a crazy person starts threatening your family, that's serious. I hope this nut doesn't live in the same city as you and your family.

          Dixie
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Frank,

          If he left them on your answering machine, get the phone company to collect the data and report him to the phone company in his area. It's a crime to make threats like that over the phone system, assuming he's actually in the US. (I have some doubts about that, but you have to check.)

          Get his IP address from your blog, and report him to his ISP.

          Report him to his web host.

          If he used Skype or some other VOIP system to place the calls, report him to them.

          There are other things you can do, but start with these. Any responsible ISP will make sure he's not making threats through their service again. If he starts losing other online accounts, he'll get the message. Or he'll turn full-blown psycho stalker, in which case you want to collect every shred of data you can on him, and use it against him.

          Save every detail of every contact, and start saving all your email and web logs.

          Don't give him a dime back. He's removed himself from human consideration with this behavior.

          Anyone who publicly cautions that people like this should be refunded in order to avoid backlash needs to be beaten senseless. You're encouraging the *******s.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author freecashman
            You appear to have offered sound business judgment in dealing with his problem. He demand for a refund is ludicrous and should not be honored.
            However, I have learned in business and life, that some things are not worth the hassle as compared to one trying to stand on principle or truth.

            Make your decision from there. He may be in a financial jam and have a great need and thus his stupid comments. Then again, maybe he just needs to check out the science of getting rich. Little joke there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mangozoom
    yeah ... tell him no

    You have been more than fair

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author Eric Stanley
    Hey, just issue a refund. Obviously it isn't worth the hassle. It's $77, nothing big.
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    • Profile picture of the author jmidas
      Howard sounds like such a nice guy. You would think with an email address like his, he would be of the kinder/gentler ilk.

      Anyway, normally I say give a refund no matter what in order to preserve your reputation.

      But, I'd tell this guy to pound sand.
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  • Profile picture of the author add2it
    @Mangozoom: That's what I thought.

    @Eric: The 77 bucks is not the issue... the issue is that I don't negotiate with terrorists!

    If he would have talked like a normal person, in a way you would expect from somebody owning WorshipWithYou.us, then we wouldn't be where we are right now.

    Where do we get if all you need to do is to threaten your families life verbally to get what you want? I don't think that's an example we want to set.

    Or would you want to?
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  • Profile picture of the author add2it
    @jmidas: I agree with you... and normally I do give refunds for any reason (dog ate the digital software that you delivered).

    But I believe this guy crossed the line, or didn't he?
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    • Profile picture of the author Sonni
      It sounds like he's not the sharpest tool in the shed and yes he crossed the line with his bully tactics. However, you have to figure out if it's worth it to your peace of mind to fool with him at all.

      If it were me I would give him money I hate drama it's like a vampire sucking life out of you. This is your call though.
      Sonni
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      • Profile picture of the author Colin Klinkert
        I work with Frank on his helpdesk for a different site and see all the tickets Howard leaves, it is sometimes 5 a day and they are all as abusive or more abusive.

        Simply amazing and yeah Frank, you are right not to give a refund for the $50 of your time, as you say its not about the money, it is about this guys attitude.

        If you give in, he will continue to act like that, and yes his domain name gives me even more reason to say that he must get stuffed!

        Well done in FINALLY reporting him, this has been going on for many weeks now, I hope you gave them all the info and painted the picture as bad as it is
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  • Profile picture of the author Habitat
    @worshipwithyou.com and he's talking like that?

    Don't give him a damn thing back you don't deserve to have your family threatened. You offered him a partial refund which is even generous of you.
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  • Profile picture of the author aekaplan
    I'm pretty confident it's illegal to threaten to KILL someone's family. Good thing you called the FBI, call your local police as well. Don't take things lightly like this! We live in America, people have guns.....
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    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
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      Originally Posted by aekaplan View Post

      I'm pretty confident it's illegal to threaten to KILL someone's family. Good thing you called the FBI, call your local police as well. Don't take things lightly like this! We live in America, people have guns.....
      99% of the time people who write stuff like that are weak as ****. I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest. Gotta give them credit for the most creative and amusing refund request though.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        This is not a "terrorist" - it is a threat against you personally and against your property - and he put it in writing.

        At whois.net you will find his full contact information. Reporting him to the FBI is fine - but I would also call the police department in HIS town and report his threats. Report it as a threat against your life and property - and he might be surprised to find a blue uniform at his door.

        Easy thing is to refund him but that will tell him this way of approaching a problem works and he'll use it again on the next person he deals with. There is no guarantee he won't harrass you further even if refunded.

        He's a bully - or a bit unhinged. Someone can tell you they hate you, call you names, etc - and that's their opinion. When they threaten to harm you or your property, it's not the same.

        You decide what to do - and let us know how it comes out.

        kay
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    Frank,

    OK... you are dealing with an "Internet Tough Guy"... who obviously likes to flex his virtual muscles. Yes, they certainly crossed the line, but I would strongly reccomend issuing a full refund and blocking this certain person's IP address (if you feel compelled enough, send the IP address to the FBI or FTC) and never do business with them again.

    Don't try and fight someone who is crazier than you... it never turns out good.

    Jared
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Personally, I would send something like this:

    Dear Howard,

    I would have expected better from someone who runs a supposedly "Christian" web site. If you are a believer, then I guess you can look forward the the warm, temperate climate of Hell.

    I have withdrawn the offer to refund ANY of your money, and sent your information on the FBI, as well as contacted the local police. Please note that any and all information that you have, or will send me is being logged for the inevitable point where the authorities will ask for it.

    Had you been nice, and well-mannered, you probably would have gotten a complete refund. Since you have been rude and aggressive, you get nothing.

    Warmest regards,

    -Frank

    See how that one goes

    -Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Faber
    Anybody who would make threats like at all, much less over $50 has a fargin' screw loose. I'd almost hang on to the $50 just to keep him pissed off, he deserves to live with himself in a pissed off mood. On the other hand, slide him the 50 and get him out of your life. The FBI ("You ask for miracles, I give you the F-B-I.") was a great idea. Since he threatened with explosives, you could report him to the ATF as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
    Terrorist?

    Probably some 14 year old who just trashed his mom's basement, and got grounded for "eternity".

    I've seen worse language and threats in the ABC news comments section.

    I wouldn't give this clown another keystroke of attention...

    Just my view...
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  • Profile picture of the author kahndoit
    Hey Buddy,

    A Whois shows the following info

    Name: worshipwithyou.us
    IP: 69.72.132.42
    Domain: worshipwithyou.us

    Querying whois.nic.us for worshipwithyou.us...
    Domain Name: WORSHIPWITHYOU.US
    Domain ID: D9275564-US
    Sponsoring Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.
    Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 146
    Registrar URL (registration services): whois.godaddy.com
    Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited
    Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited
    Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
    Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited
    Registrant ID: GODA-016305652
    Registrant Name: Howard Goldberg
    Registrant Organization: Unknown
    Registrant Address1: PO Box1521
    Registrant City: Kingston
    Registrant State/Province: Oklahoma
    Registrant Postal Code: 73439
    Registrant Country: United States
    Registrant Country Code: US
    Registrant Phone Number: +1.5805641784
    Registrant Email: mailto:Howard@MAGICUNICORNS.US

    As Godaddy is the registrar their TOS include the following

    "You agree that Go Daddy, in its sole discretion and without liability to You, may refuse to accept the registration of any domain name. Go Daddy also may in its sole discretion and without liability to You delete the registration of any domain name during the first thirty (30) days after registration has taken place. Go Daddy may also cancel the registration of a domain name, after thirty (30) days, if that name is being used, as determined by Go Daddy in its sole discretion, in association with spam or morally objectionable activities. Morally objectionable activities will include, but not be limited to: activities designed to defame, embarrass, harm, abuse, threaten, slander or harass third parties; activities prohibited by the laws of the United States and/or foreign territories in which You conduct business; activities designed to encourage unlawful behavior by others, such as hate crimes, terrorism and child pornography; activities that are tortious, vulgar, obscene, invasive of the privacy of a third party, racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable; activities designed to impersonate the identity of a third party; and activities designed to harm or use unethically minors in any way. In the event Go Daddy refuses a registration or deletes an existing registration during the first thirty (30) days after registration"

    Perhaps you might consider reporting them and see what happens
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  • Profile picture of the author MarieReyes
    I am the assistant of Mr. Frank Bauer. I handle the support emails and tickets at the helpdesk, and this guy so far is the most 'difficult' person to deal with.

    Whenever I ask him for full details needed for him to receive a refund if warranted under the circumstance, he would just send abusive replies full of profanities. I was shocked at first because the domain with which he is associated with appears to be a religious one. To make the long story short, we received lots of daily emails and tickets with: 'I wont (reads: 'want' ) a refund, etc. or I will kill you' with all the cursing and wrong spelling on it. :p As a customer support personnel, how can I effectively assist him if he acts and talks that way?

    We're real people, not just a bunch of autobots that reads and replies to their concerns and we do our very best to address each trouble ticket when we can and even issue a refund if warranted.
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