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Need Some Advice About Template Theft

by TelZilla
14 replies
Some time back I decided to build an article directory and chose ArticleMS v1.3 for the script (2.0 wasn't out yet). Since I wanted a unique design for the directory, I spent some time creating one. I posted a link on the ArticleMS showcase forum just to get some opinions on it.

Here's my site: Top Ezine Articles

I haven't really done anything else with it due to time constraints and other projects, but I have approved a few articles people have submitted. It gets a few hundred uniques per month and a small amount of adsense revenue.

Today I decided I would submit a few articles to my site that I've written, and also upgrade the site to v2.0. While I was at the ArticleTrader website downloading the new version, I jumped over to their forum to see what was up. I saw that one of the users had updated her theme site, so I clicked on the link.

Lo and behold, my no longer unique template is for sale on her site.

ArticleMS 2.0 Skins | ArticleMS 2.0 Templates | ArticleMS 2.0 Themes | ArticleMS 2.0 Designs

First row, second skin.

I checked the source of the template, both html and css, and she didn't really change anything. Things that I had commented out in the css are still there.

To say that I am annoyed is an understatement.

I would recommend if anyone on this forum has purchased this template for ArticleMS, to demand a refund from her immediately.

Now, the advice I need?

What should I do next?
#advice #template #theft
  • Profile picture of the author TelZilla
    I just sent them an email via their contact form. I can't wait to see how they respond. LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    When you purchased the template, was there any discussion of resale rights?
    (If there wasn't, and you purchased their design services, I would assume only you have a right to the template)
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    • Profile picture of the author TelZilla
      Originally Posted by dvduval View Post

      When you purchased the template, was there any discussion of resale rights?
      (If there wasn't, and you purchased their design services, I would assume only you have a right to the template)
      I didn't purchase the template. I created it.

      They stole it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
        Yes, after looking at the source codes for both templates, it's obvious they borrowed your code and modified it a lttle. A jury of 3rd graders could determine that.

        Now, this is just something you could look into, I don't know for a fact that it would help...but if you could "CopyScape" (.com) your template you may be able to search for copies of your template.

        Again, this is just speculation based on experience, and not legal advice, but the offending party has changed your template enough that they may be able to offer it to the public if they delete the comments code lines and any other extranious code that doesn't affect the browser display. It doesn't take a whole lot of design changes to effectively change a design enough to where the 'new' version is not in violation of design protection. (This is why design patents are almost worthless for physical products.)

        I certainly hope you get satifaction from the offending party, but it may not be worth the time, energy, and money to persue legal action if they ignore your demands.

        I guess you'll have to wait for their response to see how this plays out. Hopefully, you come out on top.

        KJ
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        • Profile picture of the author TelZilla
          Originally Posted by Killer Joe View Post

          I guess you'll have to wait for their response to see how this plays out. Hopefully, you come out on top.
          KJ
          I understand what you're saying, and unfortunately I have to agree with you. There have been changes done to the template, mainly a different way of doing the date and article display at the bottom. These may be enough to warrant them saying it's a unique design, even though visually it's the same.

          Whether or not I come out on top isn't the whole point of this. If this person would have contacted me, I would most likely have a) sold it for a reasonable price or b) GIVEN them the code for a percentage of each sale.

          All I've been doing is letting the domain age for awhile before I flip the site. Of course I'll end up doing a complete design, etc before the flip, but the only reason I developed that template was to learn how to create them for ArticleMS.

          This just severely annoyed me.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
            Originally Posted by TelZilla View Post

            I understand what you're saying, and unfortunately I have to agree with you. There have been changes done to the template, mainly a different way of doing the date and article display at the bottom. These may be enough to warrant them saying it's a unique design, even though visually it's the same.
            Changes would constitute a derivative work, not a new or unique work. So, if they copied your template and made changes, they cannot claim a new copyright on it. They may be able to claim a copyright on their changes, but that's not going to do them any good without rights to use or sell the original work (yours) upon which it is based.
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            • Profile picture of the author TelZilla
              Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

              Changes would constitute a derivative work, not a new or unique work. So, if they copied your template and made changes, they cannot claim a new copyright on it. They may be able to claim a copyright on their changes, but that's not going to do them any good without rights to use or sell the original work (yours) upon which it is based.
              Thanks Dan for reminding me of this.

              God, I'm getting a headache.

              This is why I have an attorney handle this stuff. My head would explode otherwise.
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              • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                Originally Posted by TelZilla View Post

                Whether or not I come out on top isn't the whole point of this. If this person would have contacted me, I would most likely have a) sold it for a reasonable price or b) GIVEN them the code for a percentage of each sale.
                Why would they do that?

                By stealing it, they got to keep 100% of their ill-gotten gains rather than sharing legitimate profits with you.

                The only reason they didn't get away with it is pure bad luck on their part. Had you not stumbled over their feedback request, they'd have got off scot-free.

                I hope you at least get them to squirm a little...
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                • Profile picture of the author TelZilla
                  Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                  Why would they do that?

                  By stealing it, they got to keep 100% of their ill-gotten gains rather than sharing legitimate profits with you.

                  The only reason they didn't get away with it is pure bad luck on their part. Had you not stumbled over their feedback request, they'd have got off scot-free.
                  Yep. They would have gotten away with it if I hadn't of stumbled on it. It must be a karma thing.

                  I hope you at least get them to squirm a little...
                  That is my intention.
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                  • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
                    My experience has been that applying copyright to a stylesheet for things like color choices, font choices, page layout and such is largely futile exercise (graphics are a different story though). Since your design and their's are both derived from a common, public domain, source, this would make your case more difficult.

                    It's probably lucky for you that they were too lazy to even remove your comments and rename a few variables. Otherwise you would have no proof at all. They could still easily change it though.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMChick
    If this template is your original creation, and you know that you can prove it (if asked in the future) by file creation dates in your server, etc, it has been stolen.

    You'll need an attorney in intellectual property to send a cease and desist letter (the C&D) to the offending parties & their web host.

    It won't prevent them from slamming it onto another website and selling it from there, but you'll be able to get it off this site.
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    • Profile picture of the author TelZilla
      Originally Posted by IMChick View Post

      If this template is your original creation, and you know that you can prove it (if asked in the future) by file creation dates in your server, etc, it has been stolen.

      You'll need an attorney in intellectual property to send a cease and desist letter (the C&D) to the offending parties & their web host.

      It won't prevent them from slamming it onto another website and selling it from there, but you'll be able to get it off this site.
      This template is an original creation, and I can certainly prove it. I have every site I've ever designed on my local server with the original file creation dates, and they are also backed up to DVD weekly.

      I sent them an email asking them to remove it. If it hasn't been removed by Monday, I'll contact my attorney and let him handle it. It just caught me by surprise to see it for sale on another site.

      If they had asked first, we may have been able to work something out.
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  • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
    Darryl you have my sympathy, as a developer myself I know how frustrating that would be.

    Is there is a distinguishing feature on the ArticleMS version of the template (such as a backlink or a "designed by" statement in the footer) that you might be able to use in a Google search? You could query this and find out how many sites have bought and implemented the stolen template, and then contact them and explain the situation. The negative feedback and demands for refunds that they would give ArticleMS may be enough to get them to pull the template from their site.

    You're doing the right thing by posting here as well, as many of their potential customers are probably reading the Warrior Forum. and will now think twice before dealing with them.

    Best of luck

    Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Buchinski
    I haven't been in this situation but I've read a few times on this
    forum and others, that if you contact the host with your copy
    information, they will either shut down the site or at least
    communicate with the owner, and more communication is a good
    thing in a situation like this, right? Of course more squirming if the
    person is really guilty.

    best wishes, lloyd
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