[HELP!!!] One Hour Campaign With 552 Unconfirmed Subscribers

12 years ago

Is anyone has solution to this problem or do you have a better way for making them confirm their subscription?

Regards,

Ross

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Simmeon

12 years ago

Too much text.

Show the product, say confirm email to recieve.

Simple CTA.

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Venturetothetop

12 years ago

Although your confirm page could be better (I have no idea what You'll be very happy when you see them. is supposed to be about and you say the same thing multiple times) - i doubt it has much to do with your issue because it seems good enough and not enough to warrant 90% unconfirm rate.

I would look into where you subscribers are coming from. I'm guessing it some form of paid promotion right? (500 in an hour is a lot for natural sources). It probably has more to do with the type of subscribers you are getting or the fact that they may not even be getting the confirmation email. Email a few of them directly and simply ask if they wanted to be on the list and if so what the issue is that is stopping them.

I had over 300 subscribers to my email list last week, which is quite high considering how little my promote my blog. Of those 300 nearly 90% unsubscribed after 30 seconds of downloading my free gift.

I was certain it was not the gift as many people on this forum have given me praise for the ebook.... so I messaged a few of them asking what the issue was.

Turns out someone in a paid course, was telling them to read my book as 'must read' but also telling them to sign up and then unsubscribe instantly ....

Stuff happens. You have to stop making assumptions and ask those who are directly involved, it will give you a much better insight then anyone could 'guess' here.

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princecapri

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Venturetothetop

Turns out someone in a paid course, was telling them to read my book as 'must read' but also telling them to sign up and then unsubscribe instantly ....

Wow, that's a little unethical! Did you find out what paid course it was? Can't believe how insecure some marketers get!

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Wow, that's a little unethical!

It's rude, but I'm not seeing the ethical issue. What am I missing?

Can't believe how insecure some marketers get!

[chuckle] I had someone pirating one of my free giveaways. The justification was something along the lines of, "Great book. Get it here without the subscription."

Welcome to a Bland New World.

Paul

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princecapri 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

It's rude, but I'm not seeing the ethical issue. What am I missing?
Paul

I think any method that immorally promotes misusing a set of rules for a short-term benefit is unethical (in my book). It is rude, of course, but it is also unethical, as the marketer is *conniving* with his list to avail an opportunity but not actually stick around for longer term benefits.

Let me put it this way, what the marketer said to his list sounded like this: "There is a cool product out there, I want you to go check it out...but I don't want you to stay with him because he is a competitor. So just use his stuff, unsubscribe, and come back to me. I love you." Its unethical because you are convincing people to unsubscribe, when really, it should be there own choice.

Ah, I digress.
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Steve Wells

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

It's rude, but I'm not seeing the ethical issue. What am I missing?[chuckle] I had someone pirating one of my free giveaways. The justification was something along the lines of, "Great book. Get it here without the subscription."

Welcome to a Bland New World.

Paul

Paul I think this is where the ethics part comes into play....

Ethics

that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

Steve,

I know what ethics is.

I make a pretty clear distinction between ethics and etiquette. One can be perfectly ethical and decidedly rude at the same time. An example would be the person who honors a refund policy and insults the person they're sending it to in the same message. Acceptable ethics, bad manners.

Of course, the reverse is also possible.

As a general thing, I don't see a large ethical problem with the original example that prompted that part of the discussion. That could change if the action was likely to happen in sufficient numbers to create a real financial cost to the "target," without the normal level of potential gain that would come with the same number of downloads.

I have significantly larger ethical concerns about the casual way some people advise folks to do things they know are both unjustified and harmful to others. And, in some cases, outright illegal. Casual refunding, fraudulent account creation, link spamming, trademark infringement... I could go on.

For me, this isn't a theoretical issue. The freebie I give away is a real 100+ pages of useful info. I don't care all that much if people sign up, download it, and unsubscribe.

If they think like that, I don't want them staying around anyway.

Paul
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- Ross Dalangin 12 years ago
  
  I like that Paul, at least you know that your subscribers like what you're sending.
  
  Ross
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  I don't care all that much if people sign up, download it, and unsubscribe.
  
  If they think like that, I don't want them staying around anyway.
  
  Paul
  
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Ross Dalangin 12 years ago

Originally Posted by princecapri

Wow, that's a little unethical! Did you find out what paid course it was? Can't believe how insecure some marketers get!

Looks like that marketer like the product but don't want to share his subscribers. Something like sending the free gift to his subscribers without and telling them I didn't send this to you guys Or go to his shop and steal it...don't leave a foot print.

Ross
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bchez

12 years ago

The only time I confirm is when I really, really want something, and you have to confirm to get it.

I switched to single opt-ins on my own site for this reason. There are a million reasons to not do single opt in, but I haven't had any problems. Yet.

I think the idea of putting in a photo of what they are supposed to get is a good idea. Remind them of what they want. And yeah, that's a lot of text. "Confirm your email to get (name of item)" is usually what I see.

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Ross,

Change "Thank You For Your Subscription!" to "Please check your email." Include the subject line in the first paragraph. For example, "Within a few minutes (in most cases), you'll receive an email with the subject line, "Confirm your request from Ross."

The "Thank you" line suggests the process is over.

The "Please" before asking them to check their email is significant. Don't leave that out.

As Dee points out, the source of the traffic might be an issue. It may be something unusual, as he experienced, or it may just be spammers hitting a web form or email address. Or, more likely, traffic from a group that isn't used to the confirmation process. A very big chunk of those subscriptions can be properly completed with simple instructions like the ones above.

That is not a lot of text for the confirmation reminder page, by the way. I use a little more than that and more than 80% of the people who sign up for my list confirm their subscriptions.

It could be clearer, though.

Paul

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Ross Dalangin

12 years ago

Hi Dee,

I actually using getresponse and seems they are really good. I've noticed most are yahoo and gmail emails. Hotmail emails are quite few.

Yes, it's a paid promotion and I'm using my squeeze page with high conversion that's why I stick to it. I just didn't understand why this happen today that's why I suspect it's because of my confirmation page. I use the default confirmation before and experience a high confirmed subscribers but the problem is, I want to add an offer before they land on the thank you page that's why I created this confirm page as a test. Thanks!

Regards,

Ross

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

Ross,

I've noticed most are yahoo and gmail emails. Hotmail emails are quite few.

Even in the IM space, where a lot of people have their own domains, this is normal. If you get into the consumer space, it's even more common.

Most people don't bother learning how to set up emailers to use their ISP-provided addresses, and stick with webmail because all they need is a username and password. Plus, it's easier to just abandon an address at a free webmail service if it gets too much spam. Then there's the question of multiple people in the house, mobile devices, etc.

Paul
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- Paul Myers 12 years ago
  
  Ross,
  
  I want to add an offer before they land on the thank you page that's why I created this confirm page as a test.
  
  Missed that the first time.
  
  If you go that route, put the offer on the page they reach after confirming.
  
  Paul
  
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Ross Dalangin

12 years ago

I really appreciate your help on this issue Paul. I already modified the page btw. Thanks!

Ross

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Ross,

I really appreciate your help on this issue Paul. I already modified the page btw. Thanks!

Let us know if it helps, and roughly by how much? This sort of case study data can be more useful than all the theory in the world.

If the traffic is only confirming at 4%, there are other factors you need to optimize for, assuming it's not just a source issue. Shouldn't be that, though, unless it's spammers hitting the form, or a paid ad being gamed by the seller. If those are real people signing up, they ought to be confirming at a lot better than that rate.

Paul

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Ouch. Just looked at the new page. That's way too busy. It will probably improve the results some, but not to the level you want. It looks like a sales page.

Here's the exact language from my confirmation reminder page:

Please check your email

In a few minutes, (assuming things are running as usual), you're going to receive an email with the subject line, "TalkBiz News - Please confirm your subscription." To complete your request, you'll need to open that email and click on the link in it.

This is done to make sure that it's really you that requested the subscription, and not someone else using your email address. I genuinely hate spam, and I have no desire to send anyone anything they haven't asked for.

As soon as you confirm that you are the one that requested the book and newsletter, I'll get an email to you with the download link.

Enjoy!

That drives a confirmation rate that is consistently in the 83-86% range. No fancy graphics, no distractions. Just the next step they need to take to get to the download.

Paul

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Ross Dalangin

12 years ago

Oooooppps, simplicity...that was great...thanks again!

Ross

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Ouch. Just looked at the new page. That's way too busy. It will probably improve the results some, but not to the level you want. It looks like a sales page.

Here's the exact language from my confirmation reminder page:That drives a confirmation rate that is consistently in the 83-86% range. No fancy graphics, no distractions. Just the next step they need to take to get to the download.

Paul

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Ross Dalangin

12 years ago

You are right, it's so alarming that's why I tried to check what are the causes why this happens. Another thing that suspect me is the confirmation email template that I am using.

Testing my sales funnel is one of the things that I am really focus and I have to test them one by one to improve the conversion.

Ross

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Ross,Let us know if it helps, and roughly by how much? This sort of case study data can be more useful than all the theory in the world.

If the traffic is only confirming at 4%, there are other factors you need to optimize for, assuming it's not just a source issue. Shouldn't be that, though, unless it's spammers hitting the form, or a paid ad being gamed by the seller. If those are real people signing up, they ought to be confirming at a lot better than that rate.

Paul

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

Ross,

Optimizing the steps is the smartest way to build something that lasts. Too many people ignore that, and end up with a great funnel with a single bad element and can't figure out why they don't make any money.

The opt-in page conversion and the confirmation reminder page are the easiest places to create big increases. This has me a bit at a loss, though. I've never heard of a confirmation process that involved real humans signing up that didn't result in at least 15% confirmation rates. 4% is "off the charts" bad.

If you're paying for the traffic, check the IPs from a couple dozen of those unconfirmed sign-ups. Use this form: G E E K T O O L S

Punch the IPs in where it asks for domain names, and it will tell you the service provider(s). If there's fakery going on, they might be using proxies, which can be hard to spot even with experience. If there are an unusual amount starting with 116-124 or 180-184, you may be looking at forged subscriptions from a scam.

Paul
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winsoar

12 years ago

Are you using a CPA network to drive traffic? If so maybe a lot of the signups are fraud. Black hatters often sign up to a lead capture CPA offer then use services such as Microworkers to get people to sign up, thus making a profit - but the people who sign up have absolutely no interest in the offer.

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Ross Dalangin

12 years ago

No, I'm not using a CPA network on this campaign.

Ross

Originally Posted by winsoar

Are you using a CPA network to drive traffic? If so maybe a lot of the signups are fraud. Black hatters often sign up to a lead capture CPA offer then use services such as Microworkers to get people to sign up, thus making a profit - but the people who sign up have absolutely no interest in the offer.

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

Ross,

Okay. No CPA stuff.

Did you pay for a solo ad or other promo that guaranteed a certain number of clicks or sign-ups? Is there anyone else who would benefit from people filling out the form and not confirming their request?

Is the ad somewhere that would be likely to attract an unusually large percentage of pure freebie seekers?

Does the opt-in page make it clear they're signing up for an actual list - meaning, a subscription?

Paul
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- Paul Myers 12 years ago
  
  BTW... For me, in Firefox, rossgifts.com returns a page full of complete gibberish. Illegible nonsense that's clearly not what's supposed to be there. Same in Safari.
  
  In Internet Explorer, it just shows a "Share on Facebook" button. Nothing else.
  
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WF99

12 years ago

less those text ..
Show the product directly to the subscribers !!

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Ross,

Wow. You know how to make things more complicated than they need to be. Test this copy. Only center the headline, "Please check your email"

Leave the rest of this left-justified. Not centered. Centering multiple long lines of text makes it harder for some people to read, especially when it breaks in odd places.

Suggested copy:

Within a few minutes (in most cases), you'll receive an email with the subject line, "Please confirm your subscription to Make Money Online With Ross Dalangin."

To complete your request, you'll just need to open that email and click on the link in it.

We do this to make sure no-one else is using your address to sign you up for things. We hate spam as much as you do, and we don't want to send people anything they didn't ask for.

As soon as you open the email and click that link, we'll send you a note with the download link for your free report.

Get ready to have some fun!

Ross Dalangin

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Its unethical because you are convincing people to unsubscribe, when really, it should be there own choice.

It's still their choice. And the smart ones will probably stay subscribed.

Like I said... I see the rudeness, but I'm not seeing the ethical issue. There's no apparent fraud or force involved.

Well, I can see one potential issue. If the person offering the freebie is out of pocket in some way when too high a percentage of people sign up, download, and then unsubscribe. That could add an expense without the normal associated potential for a return.

Okay. Maybe.

I wouldn't do business with someone who used that sort of referral tactic, but that's a personal preference. But then, I don't really care that much if people sign up for my list and unsubscribe after they get the sign-up bonus, so I may not be as sensitive to it as others.

Paul

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Venturetothetop 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Like I said... I see the rudeness, but I'm not seeing the ethical issue. There's no apparent fraud or force involved.

Well taking advantage of poor people who are prepared to work for less is considered unethical. There is no fraud or force involves, so I guess ethics really revolves around some sense of moral code which is upheld by the masses.

The dictionary even described ethical as being akin to honourable so I guess in my case, what happened really is not honourable and thus perhaps even unethical.

Regardless, I do want to say one thing Paul...

You do like to pick on words and often that gives you a certain image on this forum (which until a few weeks ago I held too), however I never publicly thanked you for helping me out with an issue I had on this forum.

I never asked for you help, you simply saw an issue and took it upon yourself to get involved and 'negotiate' with the third party. It was totally unexpected but very appreciated.

For that you really did earn my respect and saved me a huge headache.. so thank you.

I also like how you have really taken the time to help a young warrior with conversion issues here on this thread, on a Sunday...

Oh Prince (Neeraj) - don't get into wording fights with Paul - he seems to love them, but he really is one of the good guys.

Those who know me , know I dont care about sucking up to anyone, I dont have the time or the inclination. So if I say something nice, I truly mean it.
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- princecapri 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Venturetothetop
  
  Oh Prince (Neeraj) - don't get into wording fights with Paul - he seems to love them, but he really is one of the good guys.
  
  I know, I know I like Paul's posts too, but being pedantic, its always fun to get into a healthy discussion!
  
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MattCatania

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

I don't really care that much if people sign up for my list and unsubscribe after they get the sign-up bonus, so I may not be as sensitive to it as others.

Paul

^^ This!

That's why you ALWAYS make sure that your "free gifts" are of the highest quality that you could possibly create (or outsource) so that they can do as you intend for them to; which could be persuading your target market or building yourself up as a trusted authority (or both).

Along with this, you could also subtly recommend products that would be beneficial to them within your free gift. At least this way, you stand a chance of making a sale or re-subscribing people who may have 'accidentally' unsubscribed from your list. This is also useful if more than 1 person reads the same copy of your report.

Being forthright is one of the building blocks for developing trust, and trust is crucial in list-building.

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Ross Dalangin

12 years ago

Now, with your permission, I'm using this now! I actually want to copy it but only with your permission. Thanks a lot Paul. Love it!

Ross

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

Ross,

Now, with your permission, I'm using this now! I actually want to copy it but only with your permission.

By all means, test it. That's why I posted it as a suggestion. It's not fancy, of course. Basic stuff. But it's along the same lines as what I use (posted earlier) and that works pretty well.

My only guarantee is that if it doesn't work, I'll return the money you didn't pay me.

Under normal circumstances, I'd expect that sort of copy to do a minimum of 40% confirmations, even in low-converting niches. There's something very odd going on with your funnel, though. 4% is just not within sane parameters.

Paul
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Ross Dalangin

12 years ago

Paul,

It's a PPV and I use both of my squeeze pages for testing which is better for PPV. I'll soon test it for SOLO Ad.

With the Gibberish issue, I just don't know why. I modified it already.

Regards,

Ross

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

Ross,

Hmmm. With the PPV system, do the visitors even see the page that comes up after filling in the form?

If not, that could affect things. And there'd be a delay between the time they filled it out and got to their email. Still, that's awfully low.

Paul
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Ross Dalangin

12 years ago

Yep, that's why I'm worried Paul. I'll create a campaign again to see what would happen.

Ross

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Randall Magwood

12 years ago

Any reasons you don't want to do single opt-in? I've tested both in my business, and trust me... i've gotten much better results from single opt-in. But like Bianca said... there are alot of reasons not to do single opt-in, but i think the same can be said about double opt-in..... one of them being low confirmation rates.

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Ross Dalangin

12 years ago

Hi Randall,

Many will tag you as spammer when you do that because most of them forget that they subscribed from you.

Ross

Originally Posted by Randall Magwood

Any reasons you don't want to do single opt-in? I've tested both in my business, and trust me... i've gotten much better results from single opt-in. But like Bianca said... there are alot of reasons not to do single opt-in, but i think the same can be said about double opt-in..... one of them being low confirmation rates.

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

Dee,

Well taking advantage of poor people who are prepared to work for less is considered unethical. There is no fraud or force involves

Sure there is. It's just not applied by the person taking advantage of it. Hunger is a very real force.

I realize some of the distinctions I make seem like nitpicking. I'm okay with that impression. They do matter, though. Without those discussions, the misuse of words like "scam" or "unethical" tends to spread, and we end up with even more people confusing "I'm not happy" with "I'm being victimized."

That doesn't help anyone. It's especially destructive for the people who believe it. Once they buy into those sorts of expressions, they give up the power to control their own lives.

...thank you

Glad to. I'm just happy it was something that could be fixed. Sometimes there's nothing we can do to make it happen.

Paul
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bchez

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Ross Dalangin

Hi Randall,

Many will tag you as spammer when you do that because most of them forget that they subscribed from you.

Ross

If that's your reason, then you have bigger problems with what you are offering, if people don't even remember you, or that they wanted your product - that's a problem.

Users can mark you as a spammer, even with a double opt in, that doesn't keep them from reporting you. If they don't want what you are sending, a double opt in doesn't save you from being labeled as spam in email provider servers, if people so mark you.

A more legitimate reason is to have a cleaner list, and lower bounce rate. Not to be worried about being labelled as spam....

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Ross Dalangin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by bchez

If that's your reason, then you have bigger problems with what you are offering, if people don't even remember you, or that they wanted your product - that's a problem.

Users can mark you as a spammer, even with a double opt in, that doesn't keep them from reporting you. If they don't want what you are sending, a double opt in doesn't save you from being labeled as spam in email provider servers, if people so mark you.

A more legitimate reason is to have a cleaner list, and lower bounce rate. Not to be worried about being labelled as spam....

I already said what I have to say. You should do your research.

Ross

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Nixgan

12 years ago

Although I am a newbie, but up till now I have never faced a 90% unconfirmed rate. My opinion would be to go straight to the point and show them either the product or a video to get them to confirm. Or you could check your list to see if they are really getting any of the confirmation email or if they are even subscribers for your targeted niche. Some scams lead you to subscribers of different niches or not so targeted ones.

You might also want to change it to single opt-ins to get more results. Test and trial will finally see results. There may be other reasons, maybe some hackings or scams or even system problems. So just check out what is the cause and take this as a valuable experience.

All the best to you.

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eman1

12 years ago

Some of the best ways to make sure that those that opt-in also confirm is to 1-Make sure your free report or product is a very high quality one that people really want. 2-Be sure to show images of what they will get. 3-Send them to a video message page that reminds them to confirm.

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Asher

12 years ago

Wow...

Paul giving one on one advice. Consecutively in the
same thread... I don't think I've seen that in a while,
Mr Myers.

Ross, you are blessed to get the man to give you
advice like this.

My first impression on reading the thread would be to
turn off double optin and go single optin. If it's a paid
campaign you're doing and you have 500+ people who
didn't confirm... that'll be quite a big waste of good money.

Since you mentioned you are using GetResponse, they'll
filter out the bounced (fake) emails eventually. Some of
those emails may actually have forgotten to go to their
emails to confirm.

Asher

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

eman,

Quality of premiums has nothing to do with initial opt-in rates. The potential subscriber only knows what you tell them. Not what you're actually going to deliver.

Retention, on the other hand, is a function of follow-up.

Ross,

I like that Paul, at least you know that your subscribers like what you're sending.

That only happens when you decide up front who your target subscriber is. You need to know what your "perfect prospect" wants, and what they will trade to get it.

Truth in advertising isn't just the law. It's smart marketing.

Asher,

Paul giving one on one advice. Consecutively in the same thread... I don't think I've seen that in a while

Only happens when I have the time, and the experience to speak from. And when I happen to see a thread that fits when I'm not moderating.

So, yeah. Not that often.

Mr Myers

"MR Myers?" Lean over here so I can slap you...

Paul
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Ross Dalangin

12 years ago

Yes I am blessed ... Thanks to Paul. Maybe because of my lastname .... Dalangin in English means Prayer (Tagalog - Dictionary: dalangin).

I like that Getresponse feature to remove fake emails. For two days of my campaign, I happen to get 653 subscribers and Getresponse removed 105 right after I sent the first email. Maybe they are just temporary emails.

Ross

Originally Posted by Asher

Wow...

Paul giving one on one advice. Consecutively in the
same thread... I don't think I've seen that in a while,
Mr Myers.

Ross, you are blessed to get the man to give you
advice like this.

My first impression on reading the thread would be to
turn off double optin and go single optin. If it's a paid
campaign you're doing and you have 500+ people who
didn't confirm... that'll be quite a big waste of good money.

Since you mentioned you are using GetResponse, they'll
filter out the bounced (fake) emails eventually. Some of
those emails may actually have forgotten to go to their
emails to confirm.

Asher

Thanks

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[HELP!!!] One Hour Campaign With 552 Unconfirmed Subscribers

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