Are business photographers a dying breed?

12 years ago

My spouse is a very well known photographer (Tamara Santana - Photographer), who was probably one of Los Angeles' premiere wedding photographers. She actually has a degree in photography from Brooks (so there must be something more to it than taking a picture, I thought). Her and I have had this discussion a lot and it seems clear that a camera phone doesn't make a photographer, but the digital area does require a different kind of marketing and messaging. She continues to stay on top of the latest techniques and trends and even wrote a book. Now she is branching out into coaching other photographers on how to break into the business and actually make a living as an artist. Its pretty cool to see how she does it. The art clearly lies in the trained eye and the way she can frame a shot. Yes, I admit I'm a bit biased because I love my girl, but I am also a business man and can assure you that would rather hire a pro than have someone screw up my professional image, if I wouldn't see that she absolutely knows what she is doing. I really do believe that for professional images and events you need to hire the best photographer you can get instead of asking a friend with a Nikon (you can do that in addition). You can absolutely see the difference every single time. Just my 2 cents because I feel that good photographers deserve much more credit than they are getting.

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Young Financier

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MillionairesMentor

My spouse is a very well known photographer (Tamara Santana - Photographer), who was probably one of Los Angeles' premiere wedding photographers. She actually has a degree in photography from Brooks (so there must be something more to it than taking a picture, I thought). Her and I have had this discussion a lot and it seems clear that a camera phone doesn't make a photographer, but the digital area does require a different kind of marketing and messaging. She continues to stay on top of the latest techniques and trends and even wrote a book. Now she is branching out into coaching other photographers on how to break into the business and actually make a living as an artist. Its pretty cool to see how she does it. The art clearly lies in the trained eye and the way she can frame a shot. Yes, I admit I'm a bit biased because I love my girl, but I am also a business man and can assure you that would rather hire a pro than have someone screw up my professional image, if I wouldn't see that she absolutely knows what she is doing. I really do believe that for professional images and events you need to hire the best photographer you can get instead of asking a friend with a Nikon (you can do that in addition). You can absolutely see the difference every single time. Just my 2 cents because I feel that good photographers deserve much more credit than they are getting.

I'm also a Photographer (on a hobby basis) and I have to agree with all of this. There's a huge difference between someone snapping pics with a cellphone or a small digital cam and a lighting setup with the perfect shutter speed, apertures, etc. It takes a lot of work to get those professional images. The key for the photographer is to target those people who know the difference and who actually cares about the difference.

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WebPen

12 years ago

I think that it just depends.

As Ben pointed out- there's more to it than just speed. Sure, cameras can get photos uploaded to Facebook fast- but are those really the ones you want in the wedding or graduation albums?

A good photographer will take high quality photos that you can be proud of forever. A camera phone operated by someone who doesn't know what they're doing... probably not so much.

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Quentin

12 years ago

I agree for weddings and business photography and I thought it would be so for the graduation but only 10 sales and he took some great photos. He said he was seeing this more and more and thinking of going into a different field

I guess what I was hunting for is a way to help him.

Maybe a digital album or something like that.

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bokeh 12 years ago

I agree that for the most part, a photographer business dying.

About 5 years ago, I bought a setup of photography gear. Thinking I would photographs local events, then offer sales of the photos.

It seemed to me once cell phone cameras were getting better, at snapping a quick pic, and seeing it on their phone was satisfying enough for most.

In no way does the picture quality of a cell phone come close to a DSLR, or even film. But that quality and service isn't really needed anymore for this quickly changing instant gratification society.

About a year after I bought the gear, I sold it.

You can easily spend $10k to get a decent starting setup for calling yourself "pro". then what..?? your cost as a pro is too high, and the average customer don't need to pay that premium anymore to satisfy their wants.

There will always be room for professional photogs in weddings, model photography, sports, and photography for large ads, but your average local photographer isn't needed for that.

one place I see a demand, is the people who are photographers themselves, and then sell books, videos, and seminars to wannabe pro photogs.
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tedw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Quentin

I agree for weddings and business photography and I thought it would be so for the graduation but only 10 sales and he took some great photos. He said he was seeing this more and more and thinking of going into a different field

I guess what I was hunting for is a way to help him.

Maybe a digital album or something like that.

What about finding a way to get him to "embrace" the digital age by suggesting that he submit some of his work to stock image websites and sell them there?

I don't know what sort of percentage cut the sites take but they get a huge amount of website traffic. He might even think of selling them below cost price with a RF license on craigslist or through fiverr.com or other free to advertise classified sites?

I haven't tried this just floating ideas

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Don Schenk

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tedw

What about finding a way to get him to "embrace" the digital age by suggesting that he submit some of his work to stock image websites and sell them there?

He would need a signed model release from everyone appearing in the photos - or their parents if they were under the age of 18.

I owned a photo studio for 38 years before selling it to one of my employees 4 years ago. It sounds like you hired either an amateur photographer calling himself a professional or someone very new to the business.

He was photographing on speculation that people would buy his images. Pros soon learn this doesn't work unless the photographer can have a completely controlled situation such as at a high school prom.

Forty years ago, before digital and before autiomatic cameras with automatic flash, "shooting on spec" worked, because the photographer was the only person "taking" pictures.

Having a camera does not make one a pro photog anymore than having MS Word on a computer makes one a professional writer.

As MillionaireMentor alluded, it takes years to learn the art. Photo means light, graph means to draw. The real tool is the lighting. Any camara can capture an image, the pro photog controls the light - even outdoors - with gobos, scrims, reflectors, and flash.

I loved it when photography became digital. I and another fellow across town were the first two photogs to "go" digital in Cincinnati. We can do so much more with digital than we could with film.

That said though, as the amature cameras became "idiot proof," more people entered the field. The number of members in the pro photo trade associations doubled, and for every new photog who became a member, there was another new photog who got into the business but didn't join. Essentially the number of photographers photographing weddings and portraits has trippled over the past 8 or 9 years!

:-Don

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Steve Wells

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Don Schenk

He would need a signed model release from everyone appearing in the photos - or their parents if they were under the age of 18.

I owned a photo studio for 38 years before selling it to one of my employees 4 years ago. It sounds like you hired either an amateur photographer calling himself a professional or someone very new to the business.

He was photographing on speculation that people would buy his images. Pros soon learn this doesn't work unless the photographer can have a completely controlled situation such as at a high school prom.

Forty years ago, before digital and before autiomatic cameras with automatic flash, "shooting on spec" worked, because the photographer was the only person "taking" pictures.

Having a camera does not make one a pro photog anymore than having MS Word on a computer makes one a professional writer.

As MillionaireMentor alluded, it takes years to learn the art. Photo means light, graph means to draw. The real tool is the lighting. Any camara can capture an image, the pro photog controls the light - even outdoors - with gobos, scrims, reflectors, and flash.

I loved it when photography became digital. I and another fellow across town were the first two photogs to "go" digital in Cincinnati. We can do so much more with digital than we could with film.

That said though, as the amature cameras became "idiot proof," more people entered the field. The number of members in the pro photo trade associations doubled, and for every new photog who became a member, there was another new photog who got into the business but didn't join. Essentially the number of photographers photographing weddings and portraits has trippled over the past 8 or 9 years!

:-Don

Light makes photography. Embrace light. Admire it. Love it. But above all, know light.
Know it for all you are worth, and you will know the key to photography.

George Eastman

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Steve Wells

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Quentin

I agree for weddings and business photography and I thought it would be so for the graduation but only 10 sales and he took some great photos. He said he was seeing this more and more and thinking of going into a different field

I guess what I was hunting for is a way to help him.

Maybe a digital album or something like that.

Maybe he could bundle his photography with other related services that people would like that could not be done with just an iphone or ipad camera.

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stew77

12 years ago

I think business photographers are an evolving breed not dying. Everyday people stay in their lane for the most part and that means when you want an event covered professionally you call in a pro. A canon 5d Mark 3 with a EF 35mm f/1.4L lens will run circles around an Ipad, Iphone, etc. Plus it's like Don said, its an art and a pro will learn his craft, perfect it, and make a living from it.

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JohnMcCabe 12 years ago

Ben: Your wife is an artist. I checked out the site you linked and she is fantastic.

Quentin: I think Don nailed it. In an age when 'good enough' rules many areas, and speed counts for more than quality, about the only time shooting photos on spec works is if the photographer is the only one taking pictures.

The two examples that come to mind are cruise ships and tourist attractions (think roller coaster photos and ski lifts).
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dsouravs

12 years ago

He can also start photo or video editing besides photographing. my 2 cents

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SteveSki

11 years ago

Hi Quentin, I often photograph on weekends in Brisbane and business has never been better. But I specialize in creating fantasy portraits that most people can't duplicate. I also supply the costumes that my subjects wear and I have everyone who enters our studio turn their phones off and have a half a dozen "Absolutely No Mobile Phones Or Cameras" signs posted on the walls and doors. Also, I'm just getting started with Googles Trusted Photographers program and you can't do 360 degree panoramas of businesses for use on Google+ Local pages without a considerable investment in equipment and taking Google's training and passing the test with at least a score of 90 out of 100.

But for many photographers, technology is hurting them. Any mom with a modern digital camera can now capture pretty decent photos without much training. So how do you compete with them?

Two ways... 1) Offer something they can't do themselves and 2) Organize them, teach them how to do what we do and earn off of their efforts!

You Tube Large

Cheers,
Steve

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squadron

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Quentin

I understand there is still a need for a good photographer for many different parts of the industry etc but are they feeling the pinch with all this new technology?

From what I've seen they are very much feeling the pinch. If you give most people a $400 digital camera set to auto and they snap away, just by blind luck and the programming in the camera some of the shots will be quite good.

Many people really can't tell the difference between a well framed, exposed and constructed photograph and a lucky shot from an automatic digital camera.

Where I do see an opportunity for pros is in photo editing and retouching. Take average photographs shot by clients and turn them into something special.

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JohnMcCabe 11 years ago

Originally Posted by squadron

Many people really can't tell the difference between a well framed, exposed and constructed photograph and a lucky shot from an automatic digital camera.

Especially if that lucky shot results in a well-framed, exposed and constructed photograph.

The difference you see with the pro is the ability to produce such lucky shots on purpose...
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NewParadigm

11 years ago

To sell professional photography is similar to selling insurance, sell fear and regret.

Marketing should be the same photo setting w/ pics taken with phone/dig cam by amateurs and photos taken by a pro, shown side by side so the consumer sees the difference. Any easy sale for any important life event. I'm sure if you asked, many people would submit their own pics and a testimonial of regret for not getting a pro.

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scrunchie 11 years ago

I got married on a shoestring budget 12 years ago. We didn't have a photographer, we relied on friends and family to take photos.

I was looking at those photos last week and there isn't a good one among them. There is not a single photo that I can frame and hang on the wall. We've got missing heads, funny angles, no centering, stupid shadows, horrid lighting etc. Even a photoshop expert would struggle to rectify them.

My biggest regret is not getting a professional for that day.

There is still a market out there. I think photographers just need to shout a little louder. Maybe one could start a site where people submit their worst photos and use it to push the message that special photos should be taken by proffessionals.
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mattflynn

11 years ago

I know two photogs and they are experiencing a very different business climate. One is a very talented guy, an artist really. He can add so much to the photo's uniqueness that people are willing to pay for that. His business, from what he says, is good. The other fellow is what I'd call more of technician/photog. He's competent, but there's no artistry in what he does. I know he makes a living at best. Just my two cents, but I think the 'tech-type' photogs are hurting. People can buy the technical, but they can't 'buy' artistry unless they hire it.

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winagain

11 years ago

Of course the market has changed, because all of us have a camera in our phones, so you don't really need a photographer if you are in a wedding with your date and just want a simple picture to post on facebook.
but if you are the one getting married, surely you will want a professional to do the job.

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Karry

11 years ago

A friend of mine from college worked as an assistant to a well-known portrait photographer after graduation. She told me his photography skills were pretty much average, but he was an incredible salesman. Even to this day he's traveling the world doing portraits of the rich and famous.

My friend eventually opened her own studio. Her photography business is still growing after 20 years. She tells anyone who asks that photography is about art and business is about marketing. If you want to make money as a photographer, you have to be good at marketing photography.

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RichardDean

11 years ago

I find that the prices are way to high...

Example: My son's basketball photo...Team Photo 8x10 15.00

With IPhone or ( Galaxy s3 What I have )

The Samsung Galaxy S3 has a 4.8-inch HD Super AMOLED display with a screen resolution of 720 x 1280 pixels and a pixel density of 306 ppi.

8MP rear cameras, 3,264x2,448 pixels with LED flash, autofocus, image stabilisation . The Galaxy S3 has smile detection also. :-)

I can send it to Walgreens from my phone and have it ready to pick up right after the game for all for 3.99.

Point and Shoot or Cell phones are killing the average photographers

Now my friend over at Orlando Wedding Photographer is killing it because she takes the time to produce images that the average point and shoot or cell phone user can't.

Richard Dean

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Fraggler

11 years ago

There are so many different types of photography it's not funny.

From an IM sense: take a look at istockphoto and tell me how many of you can produce that quality with your phone or point and shoot? The amount of work and talent that goes into getting the lighting, exposure and composition right, plus the creative thought process will surprise many who know no better.

Scrunchie highlights the dangers of having to rely on amateurs for important and once off occasions. A team shot or a school photo is a totally different scenario as the photo is purely there to record a team - it's a static controlled shot too. It doesn't need to create mood, emotion, or tell a story; it is just a snapshot.

Check out some of the portrait work on 500px.com and see if you think just a bloke with a phone can create those types of work. It's the type of works that fill magazines and sell products - its amazing.

As with everything in business, if you can't beat them on price then create a product that they want to pay more to have. Photography as a business is more than safe.

My opinion as an amateur learning more and more everyday. :p 500px / Troy Steele / Photos

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Julia Russo 11 years ago

Amazing, I retired in 2004, as a Master Photographer, after 33 years of portrait photography. The top studio in my city, but after digital, a lot of life changes, and burnout, I moved away, remarried and settled into my next love--ecommerce.
I know that you can adapt to the times (and the technology) in any profession. You have to be better, market and sell better, and know what you are doing. A pro photog still in business does all of those--and so does someone in IM/selling online. Separating the wheat from the chafe (look it up), so to speak. The easier it is to do, the harder a real pro has work to stand out and create a more valuable product.
Scrunchie, I hear ya---I still have former clients call me and beg me to come out of retirement to photograph their kids. Most people "back home" have never been classically trained as I was to create a quality product. You can compare that to the many who think they can sell online because, hey "everyone" can do it. It is, again, those who are trained and talented that rise to the top.
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Steve Wells

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Fraggler

There are so many different types of photography it's not funny.

From an IM sense: take a look at istockphoto and tell me how many of you can produce that quality with your phone or point and shoot? The amount of work and talent that goes into getting the lighting, exposure and composition right, plus the creative thought process will surprise many who know no better.

Scrunchie highlights the dangers of having to rely on amateurs for important and once off occasions. A team shot or a school photo is a totally different scenario as the photo is purely there to record a team - it's a static controlled shot too. It doesn't need to create mood, emotion, or tell a story; it is just a snapshot.

Check out some of the portrait work on 500px.com and see if you think just a bloke with a phone can create those types of work. It's the type of works that fill magazines and sell products - its amazing.

As with everything in business, if you can't beat them on price then create a product that they want to pay more to have. Photography as a business is more than safe.

My opinion as an amateur learning more and more everyday. :p 500px / Troy Steele / Photos

Even people from 500px.com are not using a camera only, they are using photoshop or something very close to enhance their images.

I do not believe that an iphone photo can reach that quality even with photoshop enhancements, but a 4th generation ipad camera probably could with photoshop enhancements.

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Fraggler

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Wells

I do not believe that an iphone photo can reach that quality even with photoshop enhancements, but a 4th generation ipad camera probably could with photoshop enhancements.

You can get a good photo from anything, but an ipad doesn't offer the creative control of even a modern point and shoot.

As for photoshop, it's just a modern version of what photographers were doing in the darkroom. In most situations it's the end product that matters.

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Steve Wells

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Fraggler

You can get a good photo from anything, but an ipad doesn't offer the creative control of even a modern point and shoot.

As for photoshop, it's just a modern version of what photographers were doing in the darkroom. In most situations it's the end product that matters.

I understand that you cannot control many things on an ipad camera, but you can take any photo into Photoshop and if you know what you are doing make it look very professional with almost any effect that can be achieved with a DLSR or manual point and shoot camera.

There are so many photoshop actions out there nowadays and tutorials on how to do things with photography that all it takes is a little research and genuine effort.

Is it a good thing? Sure, but not for those photographers who are not willing to learn and change and adapt. Just like newspapers, they are dying out, unless those companies are willing to adapt to the new times and technology. And the new ways of marketing their product.

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Malcolm Thomas

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Quentin

The other day we had a graduation for our students and hired a photographer as you do.

The poor guy only got 10 sales as everyone was there with phones and pads and the photos and videos were on Facebook and google+ before we even finished the event.

I understand there is still a need for a good photographer for many different parts of the industry etc but are they feeling the pinch with all this new technology?

It could be on the way out but I doubt it. There will always be models, actresses, weddings, etc who all need photographers.

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John Rogers

11 years ago

Photography has become a highly competitive business, and I think many people are content to have digital pics now rather than prints to hang on their walls or save in albums.

Here's one exception that I have personal knowledge of.

My wife shows horses, and every Class A breed show she goes to has a "show photographer" who does win shots. The photographer also takes shots during the classes for those who ask. I believe that the photographer pays the show committee for exclusive rights to work the show. It's a very popular service, and judging by the prices and the number of people I see ordering prints, these photographers must be earning thousands per weekend.

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Fraggler 11 years ago

Originally Posted by John Rogers

Here's one exception that I have personal knowledge of.

And here's some more: Magazines; books; product catalogues; fine art; weddings; quality portraiture; journalism; advertising and marketing.

Like many skills and services, technology has made it more accessible to the masses but that doesn't change the need for a quality provider. It has become more competitive for the average photographer as it's now so easier to see what a decent one produces.
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OrangeBull

11 years ago

Maybe it's my age cohort or where I live, but I have a TON of Facebook friends who are making real money using social media to market their services as MODEL PHOTOGRAPHERS, or for posed model type photos these days and this is in small town USA.

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Heart Cardio

11 years ago

With so many people having their own equipment these days, there is just not a need for them as there once was. It is too bad for them.

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jgant

11 years ago

I suspect demand for photography is higher, but it's shifted to online imagery. If I were a photographer I'd shoot for making it big in stock photograph. The big sellers are doing very well and get to photograph whatever they want (assuming there's demand). Stock photography is like blogging ... start small but build up passive income.

There's also becoming proficient with Photoshop,which can be a decent business.

I think also more people go into the photography industry because many people with a decent digital camera think they can be a pro.

Overall, traditional demand for photography services is probably lower, but other avenues have opened up ... stock, bio photos, real estate photos, editing, etc.

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jgant

11 years ago

I suspect demand for photography is higher, but it's shifted to online imagery. If I were a photographer I'd shoot for making it big in stock photograph. The big sellers are doing very well and get to photograph whatever they want (assuming there's demand). Stock photography is like blogging ... start small but build up passive income.

There's also becoming proficient with Photoshop,which can be a decent business.

I think also more people go into the photography industry because many people with a decent digital camera think they can be a pro.

Overall, traditional demand for photography services is probably lower, but other avenues have opened up ... stock, bio photos, real estate photos, editing, etc.

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