Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Profile picture of the author Premier Plugins by Premier Plugins Posted: 05/19/2012
I purchased a marketplace script a while back. I spent over a week combing through the software, installing it, trying to make customizations to it, etc. After this time had passed, I came to the conclusion that I was not proficient enough in php programming to make effective use of the software.

I emailed the seller asking for a refund. For some reason they have a no refunds policy. I stated that to use the software, my knowledge of the required coding language was insufficient, they still refused. I found this odd since they use a remote licensing platform to verify/shutoff/etc non valid licenses. So I couldn't steal the software or use it in any form after my license was terminated.

So I submitted a claim with paypal which was denied. Reason stated:
After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time.
The item is ineligible for PayPal Buyer Protection because it is intangible.



Is there anything further I can do? Or, am I just stuck with this $250.00 software I can't use?
#claim #denied #paypal

  • Profile picture of the author RyanGillam
    RyanGillam
    Well, why should you be entitled to a refund? The software works, you just aren't capable of using it.
  • Profile picture of the author Premier Plugins
    Premier Plugins
    Originally Posted by RyanGillam View Post
    Well, why should you be entitled to a refund? The software works, you just aren't capable of using it.
    Because the sales page didn't specify directly that proficiency in php coding was a requirement for basic customizations. It only said "Highly customizable".
  • Profile picture of the author RyanGillam
    RyanGillam
    Originally Posted by Premier Plugins View Post
    Because the sales page didn't specify directly that proficiency in php coding was a requirement for basic customizations. It only said "Highly customizable".
    Fair Enough!
  • Profile picture of the author poweraff
    poweraff
    Its not the seller's problem if you didnt have the required programming knowledge.. you still can outsource it. especiallyif they dont have a refund policy.

    You cant disoute a service/digital product on paypal. PayPal will always decide on the Seller's favor on digital products\services purchases.

    There is absolutely nothing you can do in this case. you may want to contact the seller for some help or outsource the programming part
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    sbucciarel
    If they don't have a refund policy, they don't have one. Many software companies don't have one and Paypal often denies claims for "intangibles", so none of this is surprising. Outsource some customizations or sell your license if you're able to sell it (ask the developer).
  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    onSubie
    Hi

    If you are stuck with it, have you gotten support? How is support from the vendor?

    If it is a popular program maybe you can find someone of WF or odesk to give you a hand.

    Mahlon
  • Profile picture of the author Premier Plugins
    Premier Plugins
    Originally Posted by Zak Meftah View Post
    Its not the seller's problem if you didnt have the required programming knowledge.. you still can outsource it. especiallyif they dont have a refund policy.

    You cant disoute a service/digital product on paypal. PayPal will always decide on the Seller's favor on digital productsservices purchases.

    There is absolutely nothing you can do in this case. you may want to contact the seller for some help or outsource the programming part
    So, with this logic in mind, anyone could market a digital product (ebook/plugin/whatever) through paypal that is absolute junk and as long as the sales page is mostly truthful, the seller can simply laugh at all the buyers when they start initiating claims?

    How does that even make sense?
  • Profile picture of the author minion
    minion
    The problem with a digital product is that it can't be returned - What if a thousand people bought your ebook, and every single one wanted a refund for XYZ reason? Then 1000 people would have the ebook, and the seller would have nothing. Unless the seller has lied in the sale page, I see no reason to provide refunds.
    If I were to buy an ebook that was junk, I'd blame myself for not researching properly, asking questions before I buy etc

    But - $250 is a lot and I wouldn't be happy either. If you're still interested in customising it, send me a PM - I'll help sort it out for you (won't charge you either)..
  • Profile picture of the author Premier Plugins
    Premier Plugins
    Thanks for the replies and the offer, but I'm simply going to write this off as a loss.

    In order to effectively utilize the software with long term maintenance in mind, I'd be required to learn to code. I simply don't have that kind of time at the moment and I've no interest in further investing time nor money into something that will be at the mercy of outsourcing.

    I'll simply accept this as a $250 dollar lesson about Paypal, the company I purchased from, how Paypal handles digital products, and how I can leverage this information in the future.

    I honestly wasn't aware that this was their stance on digital products and I've browsed this forum a LOT. If anything, this has definitely made me much more cautious about purchasing any form of digital product/service through paypal, knowing, that it will be extremely unlikely to refund if the product is not portrayed accurately.
  • Profile picture of the author rondo
    rondo
    Most software and scripts have demos or trial versions, and it's quite normal for these kinds of products to be non-refundable.

    Ebooks are a different category of product, and most payment processors and merchant accounts will require refunds to be offered because they are high risk products. If you try selling a junk ebook without a refund policy your processor will probably shut you down pretty quickly.



    Andrew
  • Profile picture of the author mindreaderwriter
    mindreaderwriter
    Originally Posted by minion View Post
    The problem with a digital product is that it can't be returned - What if a thousand people bought your ebook, and every single one wanted a refund for XYZ reason? Then 1000 people would have the ebook, and the seller would have nothing. Unless the seller has lied in the sale page, I see no reason to provide refunds.
    If I were to buy an ebook that was junk, I'd blame myself for not researching properly, asking questions before I buy etc
    This is the same reason why providers require an upfront fee. Without dropping a name, I had a discussion with a client one time as to why I acquire 100% upfront on my writing services. He said that if I run away with his money, not to mention it's just a few dollars, he's at a loss. I told him that he need to bank on our reviews, our reputation in Warrior Forum, and our participation in the community (I'm here not only to get some business but also to make some business with fellow Warriors) for him to get a feel of our worth in handling his business. It's the responsibility of the buyer to do a sound research on the factors that contribute to the trustworthiness of the provider. I'm saying this to myself also when I am on the buying-end. With those high-end sales copy pages out there, you need to do your "homework" to weed out the ones that are just too good to be true.

    Just my two cents though.
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Kay King
    So, with this logic in mind, anyone could market a digital product (ebook/plugin/whatever) through paypal that is absolute junk and as long as the sales page is mostly truthful, the seller can simply laugh at all the buyers when they start initiating claims?

    How does that even make sense?
    It makes sense because paypal isn't the seller - it's only a payment transfer site. PP doesn't make the decision to buy, vet the product or make certain you buy only what you can use. Paypal states there is no guarantee for digital products.

    Just hire someone to customize it for you and you can use it.
  • Profile picture of the author Dazzling Content
    Dazzling Content
    Why would you ask for a refund on a software product? Hey, I should also ask for a refund on my Windows 7 operating system because I think it sucked bad. Since Windows 8 will soon be released, I might as well recover my money on that crappy Windows 7. LOL.

    I would also like to know if the products listed in your store allow refunds.
  • Profile picture of the author Chrisbroholm
    Chrisbroholm
    I can't see the problem. You purchased from a merchant that has a no refund policy, and then you try to very unethically try to overrule them by submitting a claim through PayPal? That's not what the PayPal claim is for, that's for dealing with fraud, unauthorized transactions and scams - you cannot abuse it to gain a refund, when you clearly purchased the product under the no refund policy.

    Sorry mate, but you are pretty way off here. Is it completely impossible to get it working? Perhaps you know people who are into PHP a bit more, after all its not a very difficult language at all - wouldn't take you long to improve your own skills.
  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    SteveJohnson
    Originally Posted by Premier Plugins View Post
    Thanks for the replies and the offer, but I'm simply going to write this off as a loss.

    In order to effectively utilize the software with long term maintenance in mind, I'd be required to learn to code. I simply don't have that kind of time at the moment and I've no interest in further investing time nor money into something that will be at the mercy of outsourcing.

    I'll simply accept this as a $250 dollar lesson about Paypal, the company I purchased from, how Paypal handles digital products, and how I can leverage this information in the future.

    I honestly wasn't aware that this was their stance on digital products and I've browsed this forum a LOT. If anything, this has definitely made me much more cautious about purchasing any form of digital product/service through paypal, knowing, that it will be extremely unlikely to refund if the product is not portrayed accurately.
    Paypal has nothing to do with it. If you went to a big box store and bought some software, opened it, and tried to return it, they'd laugh you out of the store.

    The lesson you should learn is to not treat every vendor like they were WalMart, and do your due diligence to determine if the product meets your needs and that you're actually able to use it BEFORE you go plunking down 250 clams on it.
  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Premier Plugins View Post
    So, with this logic in mind, anyone could market a digital product (ebook/plugin/whatever) through paypal that is absolute junk
    This is news to you?
  • Profile picture of the author brunom
    brunom
    The no refund policy got you.

    My suggestion: learn some php, it's not all that hard. By the way, is there a support forum where you could contact other members? Perhaps they could help you with it.
  • Profile picture of the author Premier Plugins
    Premier Plugins
    I've already stated earlier that I'm taking this as a $250.00 lesson. Must we keep repeating the same things over and over? Let this thread die already.
  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    BIG Mike
    Originally Posted by Premier Plugins View Post
    I've already stated earlier that I'm taking this as a $250.00 lesson. Must we keep repeating the same things over and over? Let this thread die already.
    You posted it for discussion, so it's being discussed - you just don't like the answers you're getting.

    Even your final decision to just write it off doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but it is your loss.

    Meanwhile, other members may learn something from the thread.
  • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
    Gerald Arno
    Originally Posted by Premier Plugins View Post
    I purchased a marketplace script a while back. I spent over a week combing through the software, installing it, trying to make customizations to it, etc. After this time had passed, I came to the conclusion that I was not proficient enough in php programming to make effective use of the software.

    I emailed the seller asking for a refund. For some reason they have a no refunds policy. I stated that to use the software, my knowledge of the required coding language was insufficient, they still refused. I found this odd since they use a remote licensing platform to verify/shutoff/etc non valid licenses. So I couldn't steal the software or use it in any form after my license was terminated.

    So I submitted a claim with paypal which was denied. Reason stated:
    After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time.
    The item is ineligible for PayPal Buyer Protection because it is intangible.



    Is there anything further I can do? Or, am I just stuck with this $250.00 software I can't use?
    Probably not.

    You definitely want to discuss this with the software providers as much as you can.

    Well, the reasons you stated are just not enough for PayPal to decide the claim in your favor.

    If you had already countless claims submitted to PayPal it becomes less and less likely for you to win any of those, especially if the seller has solid stats.

    I highly suggest to avoid submitting claims under all circumstances because it only leads to problems, time wasted, and eventual problems with your PayPal account.

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