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Unread 19th May 2012, 05:35 PM   #1
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Default Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

I purchased a marketplace script a while back. I spent over a week combing through the software, installing it, trying to make customizations to it, etc. After this time had passed, I came to the conclusion that I was not proficient enough in php programming to make effective use of the software.

I emailed the seller asking for a refund. For some reason they have a no refunds policy. I stated that to use the software, my knowledge of the required coding language was insufficient, they still refused. I found this odd since they use a remote licensing platform to verify/shutoff/etc non valid licenses. So I couldn't steal the software or use it in any form after my license was terminated.

So I submitted a claim with paypal which was denied. Reason stated:
After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time.
The item is ineligible for PayPal Buyer Protection because it is intangible.



Is there anything further I can do? Or, am I just stuck with this $250.00 software I can't use?

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Unread 19th May 2012, 05:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Well, why should you be entitled to a refund? The software works, you just aren't capable of using it.
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Unread 19th May 2012, 05:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

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Originally Posted by RyanGillam View Post
Well, why should you be entitled to a refund? The software works, you just aren't capable of using it.
Because the sales page didn't specify directly that proficiency in php coding was a requirement for basic customizations. It only said "Highly customizable".

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Unread 19th May 2012, 05:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

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Originally Posted by Premier Plugins View Post
Because the sales page didn't specify directly that proficiency in php coding was a requirement for basic customizations. It only said "Highly customizable".
Fair Enough!
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Unread 19th May 2012, 05:43 PM   #5
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Its not the seller's problem if you didnt have the required programming knowledge.. you still can outsource it. especiallyif they dont have a refund policy.

You cant disoute a service/digital product on paypal. PayPal will always decide on the Seller's favor on digital products\services purchases.

There is absolutely nothing you can do in this case. you may want to contact the seller for some help or outsource the programming part


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Unread 19th May 2012, 05:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

If they don't have a refund policy, they don't have one. Many software companies don't have one and Paypal often denies claims for "intangibles", so none of this is surprising. Outsource some customizations or sell your license if you're able to sell it (ask the developer).

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Unread 19th May 2012, 05:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Hi

If you are stuck with it, have you gotten support? How is support from the vendor?

If it is a popular program maybe you can find someone of WF or odesk to give you a hand.

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Unread 19th May 2012, 05:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

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Originally Posted by Zak Meftah View Post
Its not the seller's problem if you didnt have the required programming knowledge.. you still can outsource it. especiallyif they dont have a refund policy.

You cant disoute a service/digital product on paypal. PayPal will always decide on the Seller's favor on digital productsservices purchases.

There is absolutely nothing you can do in this case. you may want to contact the seller for some help or outsource the programming part
So, with this logic in mind, anyone could market a digital product (ebook/plugin/whatever) through paypal that is absolute junk and as long as the sales page is mostly truthful, the seller can simply laugh at all the buyers when they start initiating claims?

How does that even make sense?

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Unread 19th May 2012, 07:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

The problem with a digital product is that it can't be returned - What if a thousand people bought your ebook, and every single one wanted a refund for XYZ reason? Then 1000 people would have the ebook, and the seller would have nothing. Unless the seller has lied in the sale page, I see no reason to provide refunds.
If I were to buy an ebook that was junk, I'd blame myself for not researching properly, asking questions before I buy etc

But - $250 is a lot and I wouldn't be happy either. If you're still interested in customising it, send me a PM - I'll help sort it out for you (won't charge you either)..
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Unread 19th May 2012, 07:26 PM   #10
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Thanks for the replies and the offer, but I'm simply going to write this off as a loss.

In order to effectively utilize the software with long term maintenance in mind, I'd be required to learn to code. I simply don't have that kind of time at the moment and I've no interest in further investing time nor money into something that will be at the mercy of outsourcing.

I'll simply accept this as a $250 dollar lesson about Paypal, the company I purchased from, how Paypal handles digital products, and how I can leverage this information in the future.

I honestly wasn't aware that this was their stance on digital products and I've browsed this forum a LOT. If anything, this has definitely made me much more cautious about purchasing any form of digital product/service through paypal, knowing, that it will be extremely unlikely to refund if the product is not portrayed accurately.

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Unread 19th May 2012, 07:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Most software and scripts have demos or trial versions, and it's quite normal for these kinds of products to be non-refundable.

Ebooks are a different category of product, and most payment processors and merchant accounts will require refunds to be offered because they are high risk products. If you try selling a junk ebook without a refund policy your processor will probably shut you down pretty quickly.



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Unread 19th May 2012, 08:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by minion View Post
The problem with a digital product is that it can't be returned - What if a thousand people bought your ebook, and every single one wanted a refund for XYZ reason? Then 1000 people would have the ebook, and the seller would have nothing. Unless the seller has lied in the sale page, I see no reason to provide refunds.
If I were to buy an ebook that was junk, I'd blame myself for not researching properly, asking questions before I buy etc
This is the same reason why providers require an upfront fee. Without dropping a name, I had a discussion with a client one time as to why I acquire 100% upfront on my writing services. He said that if I run away with his money, not to mention it's just a few dollars, he's at a loss. I told him that he need to bank on our reviews, our reputation in Warrior Forum, and our participation in the community (I'm here not only to get some business but also to make some business with fellow Warriors) for him to get a feel of our worth in handling his business. It's the responsibility of the buyer to do a sound research on the factors that contribute to the trustworthiness of the provider. I'm saying this to myself also when I am on the buying-end. With those high-end sales copy pages out there, you need to do your "homework" to weed out the ones that are just too good to be true.

Just my two cents though.
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Unread 19th May 2012, 08:55 PM   #13
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Quote:
So, with this logic in mind, anyone could market a digital product (ebook/plugin/whatever) through paypal that is absolute junk and as long as the sales page is mostly truthful, the seller can simply laugh at all the buyers when they start initiating claims?

How does that even make sense?
It makes sense because paypal isn't the seller - it's only a payment transfer site. PP doesn't make the decision to buy, vet the product or make certain you buy only what you can use. Paypal states there is no guarantee for digital products.

Just hire someone to customize it for you and you can use it.


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Unread 19th May 2012, 09:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Why would you ask for a refund on a software product? Hey, I should also ask for a refund on my Windows 7 operating system because I think it sucked bad. Since Windows 8 will soon be released, I might as well recover my money on that crappy Windows 7. LOL.

I would also like to know if the products listed in your store allow refunds.
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Unread 19th May 2012, 10:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

I can't see the problem. You purchased from a merchant that has a no refund policy, and then you try to very unethically try to overrule them by submitting a claim through PayPal? That's not what the PayPal claim is for, that's for dealing with fraud, unauthorized transactions and scams - you cannot abuse it to gain a refund, when you clearly purchased the product under the no refund policy.

Sorry mate, but you are pretty way off here. Is it completely impossible to get it working? Perhaps you know people who are into PHP a bit more, after all its not a very difficult language at all - wouldn't take you long to improve your own skills.
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Unread 20th May 2012, 01:02 AM   #16
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Premier Plugins View Post
Thanks for the replies and the offer, but I'm simply going to write this off as a loss.

In order to effectively utilize the software with long term maintenance in mind, I'd be required to learn to code. I simply don't have that kind of time at the moment and I've no interest in further investing time nor money into something that will be at the mercy of outsourcing.

I'll simply accept this as a $250 dollar lesson about Paypal, the company I purchased from, how Paypal handles digital products, and how I can leverage this information in the future.

I honestly wasn't aware that this was their stance on digital products and I've browsed this forum a LOT. If anything, this has definitely made me much more cautious about purchasing any form of digital product/service through paypal, knowing, that it will be extremely unlikely to refund if the product is not portrayed accurately.
Paypal has nothing to do with it. If you went to a big box store and bought some software, opened it, and tried to return it, they'd laugh you out of the store.

The lesson you should learn is to not treat every vendor like they were WalMart, and do your due diligence to determine if the product meets your needs and that you're actually able to use it BEFORE you go plunking down 250 clams on it.
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Unread 20th May 2012, 03:13 AM   #17
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Premier Plugins View Post
So, with this logic in mind, anyone could market a digital product (ebook/plugin/whatever) through paypal that is absolute junk
This is news to you?

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Unread 20th May 2012, 03:18 AM   #18
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

The no refund policy got you.

My suggestion: learn some php, it's not all that hard. By the way, is there a support forum where you could contact other members? Perhaps they could help you with it.

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Unread 20th May 2012, 06:08 AM   #19
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

I've already stated earlier that I'm taking this as a $250.00 lesson. Must we keep repeating the same things over and over? Let this thread die already.

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Unread 20th May 2012, 06:18 AM   #20
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Premier Plugins View Post
I've already stated earlier that I'm taking this as a $250.00 lesson. Must we keep repeating the same things over and over? Let this thread die already.
You posted it for discussion, so it's being discussed - you just don't like the answers you're getting.

Even your final decision to just write it off doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but it is your loss.

Meanwhile, other members may learn something from the thread.
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Unread 20th May 2012, 06:30 AM   #21
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Premier Plugins View Post
I purchased a marketplace script a while back. I spent over a week combing through the software, installing it, trying to make customizations to it, etc. After this time had passed, I came to the conclusion that I was not proficient enough in php programming to make effective use of the software.

I emailed the seller asking for a refund. For some reason they have a no refunds policy. I stated that to use the software, my knowledge of the required coding language was insufficient, they still refused. I found this odd since they use a remote licensing platform to verify/shutoff/etc non valid licenses. So I couldn't steal the software or use it in any form after my license was terminated.

So I submitted a claim with paypal which was denied. Reason stated:
After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time.
The item is ineligible for PayPal Buyer Protection because it is intangible.



Is there anything further I can do? Or, am I just stuck with this $250.00 software I can't use?
Probably not.

You definitely want to discuss this with the software providers as much as you can.

Well, the reasons you stated are just not enough for PayPal to decide the claim in your favor.

If you had already countless claims submitted to PayPal it becomes less and less likely for you to win any of those, especially if the seller has solid stats.

I highly suggest to avoid submitting claims under all circumstances because it only leads to problems, time wasted, and eventual problems with your PayPal account.
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Unread 20th May 2012, 08:42 AM   #22
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Why would you write off good software you paid for?

$25-50 bucsk would probably hire an outsourcer to configure it for you. That would be a BUSINESS solution.

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Unread 20th May 2012, 09:23 AM   #23
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Get genesis and child the View Post
Sounds like they must have run a Credit Check??

You will get an email from them telling you your funds are available for withdraw in about 160 days. Then just log in a put in a bank account and withdraw or request they mail you a check.
One wonders, if you even bothered to read the thread. If you had, then you would know this answer is totally irrelevant.

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Unread 20th May 2012, 09:45 AM   #24
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Premier Plugins View Post
Because the sales page didn't specify directly that proficiency in php coding was a requirement for basic customizations. It only said "Highly customizable".


I get your concern i really do but you are playing on a thin line here.
Anyhow, its about the same as :
I bought a computer but i dont know how to use it so i want my money back.
Can you resell it ? If so just do it, at least you will get some of the money back.
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Unread 20th May 2012, 10:44 AM   #25
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

You can always learn php. Then, apparently, you have a great piece of software you can customize yourself. Or, you can hire someone proficient with php to do that for you now.

Lesson learned: always read the TOS. Too many people just assume they can buy something, try it out, and then because "they" have "issues" that are no fault of the script creator they are entitled to a refund. That is not the way the world works.

For instance - you buy a car, try it out for a few weeks, then want to return it because you cannot figure out a stick shift and want an automatic.

My suggestion: take the time to learn php so you can customize the script yourself. This is a path I took. In the long run, you will be very happy because there is so much you can do with php.

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Unread 20th May 2012, 12:34 PM   #26
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Premier Plugins View Post
Because the sales page didn't specify directly that proficiency in php coding was a requirement for basic customizations. It only said "Highly customizable".
It didn't specify that proficiency in php was NOT a requirement, either. "Highly customizable" does not equal "easily customizable if you don't know PHP".

I'm sorry you feel you have to take a complete loss, considering your other options, but perhaps this will help you to remember to ask questions before purchasing next time.

It doesn't sound like you were misled by the sales copy, except in your own mind, so I don't see as the seller has done anything untoward here.


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Unread 20th May 2012, 01:40 PM   #27
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

No refunds... means no refunds...

Opening a dispute is just wrong at that point.

If someone opens a dispute on us... we ban them for life using JV Zoo and they cant buy another product from us again.

Opening disputes should be a last resort... after you tried to work it out with the seller... but if they stated no refunds... then you really have no right to open a dispute. You can do it... but its not good manners in my opinion.

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Unread 20th May 2012, 02:02 PM   #28
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

PremiumPlugis,

I feel your pain! That's an expensive lesson, but perhaps, as others have suggested, you can find a programmer who can teach you how to use it. Good Luck.

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Unread 20th May 2012, 03:44 PM   #29
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Default Re: Paypal denied claim. Anything else I can do?

I'm rubbish with php and coding too. But if I need to get stuck in and customise the code, I use google and support forums to find the tweaks I need. It drives me demented sometimes, but I usually get there in the end.

When it frustrates you - which it clearly is doing right now - you need to walk away and do something else. Then when you come back to it, it won't seem to bad.


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