So you think it's unreasonable to charge higher prices?

It's never unreasonable to charge higher prices so far as you provide commensurate returns in terms of services rendered. But asking me to pay you 3 or 4 digits in fees on the first business with you might meet a brickwall.

It's always important to build trust and make your clients feel you've massively overdelivered first, before asking for the cherry. It makes the job a lot more easier, just saying.

I argue with people all the time about this, specially ones in this forum.
You need to charge what you are worth.... and stop undervaluing everything you... and i do

Rule of thumb is typically things are worth what people will pay, but with that sad sometimes less is more, in that selling for cheaper will ultimately make you more.

I confess I know squat about selling internet things but I do know a good bit about sales in general and IMO you are looking at it a bit from the wrong direction.

Its not about how much or how little you charge for a product - in the end, it is what that product will do for your customer. For short term success, a fantastic salesman can indeed sell ice to eskimos but that success will be short lived when the eskimo cant figure out what to do with the extra ice - EVEN IF HE STILL FEELS GOOD ABOUT BUYING IT.

No, the real success at any sales is to create a product that will MAKE or SAVE the customer FAR MORE than you are asking for it. While in offline sales, emotional contentment may be the payoff for the customer, such as selling life insurance, cemetery plots or a flashy red car to the guy in a midlife crisis - in IM, the payoff is clearly MONEY. If you have a product that will make them or save them a bundle of money - and it really works, you will not need to worry about raising your prices.

The price can be lifted to reflect the amount the average customer will make or save from it - less a "belief factor" discount. If I had a button that I could sell you, that 70% of my customers were saying made them $1,000 just by pushing it - what would you pay for it? It wouldn't be on fivver

The reason stuff is cheap MOST of the time - is because the perceived value is not high enough - and the reason their perception is that way (over a period of time), is not because because you arent selling it well enough but because the product doesnt really DELIVER a HIGH amount of value. You cant get Mercedes prices when you are delivering Yugo cars - at least not very long. Now it is true that a customer may at first not have enough experience with cars and thus not appreciate the difference - and THAT is where your selling/educating them makes a big difference.

My point - while being good at the game of changing the customer's perception is important - first make sure you are delivering high end goods and then even if you are charging high end prices, people will beat a path to your door (and if you are a good IM you will build a nice path for them).

Well, Apple certainly is a success story. At the time the IPOD came out, however, it was by far the smallest player available - and it was a very sleek design. There is no question that Apple's marketing of their products are absolutely of legendary quality - but the fact is that they first developed a product that was WAY AHEAD of others - and thus they could charge a LOT more for it. Even now, IPADs sell for more than their competitors - its not just because Apple is better at marketing it but because the IPAD is better than most things out there.

Now, you can also look at Xerox PARC who never invented a product which they couldn't screw up by bad marketing. Great Scientists - Piss poor marketers. That wont work for anyone either.

Great Product + Poor Marketing plan = get gobbled up by someone else (who will market your product better than you do)
Great Marketing Plan + Poor product = almost every MLM that crashes and fails with all those poor victims wallowing in the debris

In the end, I dont want to be PARC Xerox but being Bernie Madoff is not so great either.

And look, every product doesnt have to be super expensive - only that it gives great VALUE for whatever price I am charging for it. Salesmanship can help build that value a bit but unless it is building on a solid intrinsic framework the results will crumble into dust in the end.

Olorin:

Ryan is providing commentary on Warrior Forum service providers (and buyers, really). It seems it's a fast race to the bottom. Somebody offers a service for $50 and somebody comes by and offers the same service for $45. Next thing you know, the service is being given away to get subscribers on a list.

Drastic and embellished scenario, but that's what he's referring to.

Your points are spot on in general, but it's an unusual microcosm here.


Edit: Dammit, I was saving my 300th post (up here on the 1st floor) for something more elaborate...Eh, I'll just wait until #400.

If you are providing a service, then put your fees up as you gain more clients. The ones that appreciate your service will be happy to pay the higher price, especially if you tell them the reason for increasing your fees.

--> "Yes, I have increased my fees, Mr Client. I was finding I was attracting too many clients and was not able to give the quality of service I wanted, purely because of having less time in which to do it. My quality of life was suffering too, as I was working more and more hours and spending less and less time with my family, which just made me stressed and lowered my enthusiasm and the standard of service I was providing. I value myself highly and the service I provide my clients, and have decided to charge more. I know a number of my clients will choose to go elsewhere, Mr Client, and should you choose to do so, I will happily recommend a number of colleagues who will provide you with the level of service you have been getting from me of late at a similar fee to that which I have been charging you. If you choose to accept my higher fees and stay as a valued client of mine, I would certainly appreciate it, since I will be able to spend more time on your projects giving you much higher level of service. With fewer clients, I will have more time for myself and my family, and will thus be much happier in my work for you. So, Mr Client, are you happy to remain a client of mine?"

You can easily put 50% on your fees, and yes you'll lose a few clients, but the likely-hood is those will probably be the clients that caused you the most hassle anyway, generally wanting everything yesterday and never being satisfied. Clients who pay higher fees will have more respect for you, and your time, and value the service you provide much more. In fact those are type of clients who tend to ask when is the best time for them to meet with with you, rather than you trying to work your schedule around them.

Basically, the higher you value yourself, the lower the number of clients you will need to support your lifestyle (you can also say no easier - which makes your service even more in demand; you'll never have to go looking for more clients, there will always be more on the waiting list) and the more time you will have for yourself, and indeed your clients.

Ironically, you will make a lot more money too, as you can command a much higher fee.

Yes, the quality and level of your service must be higher than average, but the interesting fact is so many people have a much lower opinion of themselves, their worth, and indeed the level of service they provide.

A friend of mine had this problem himself. In discussion with potential clients he was always over-delivering and giving away a lot of free, but highly valuable advice. Often as not the potential client would ask for help in implementing what he was suggesting.

They asked for his fee, and he gave it.

When a couple of clients said, "Wow, I was expecting it to be more than that." It didn't take him long to realise he was underestimating the value he was giving, and indeed the belief in his abilites. Very soon after, he doubled his fee. A couple of potential clients felt it was a little high and negotiated, so he would offer less at a reduced fee, but the majority simply asked how he wanted paying.

Quality clients recomend you to other quality clients too.

So, put your fees up, at the worst you'll have fewer clients, more time for yourself and family for pretty much the same income, though you'll probably be pleasantly surprised to find you'll have a higher income too.

And if you are still finding yourself with the same number of clients, and the same amount of free time, but of course a higher income, then you have a couple of choices.

1) Put your fees up again!
2) Invested some of that extra income in training up and outsourcing parts of your work that is mundane or repetitive to a VA to free up your time. Remember though, the point is to get more time but still keep as much profit as you can. Many people make the mistake of hiring staff, and renting a bigger office to accomodate them and attempting to grow their business that way. Wrong. Outsource your work to a VA.

I've had similar discussions with others, who were simply to scared to put their fees up in fear of losing custom. The truth of the matter was, they were undervaluing themselves, and it was too hard for them to see that.

In respect to the Warrior Forum? Sadly as has been noted earlier in this thread, there is a race to the bottom.

Some are literally being pushed out of the market.

I've seen a number of marketers recently selling off access to all of their past products for as low as $27 simply to pull in 1000's more prospects for their much higher priced new product/service. Sadly others selling a single product similar to one in the other marketers bundle won't stand a chance.

I've often given the analogy of going into a record store to check on the price of an album, only to find another store down the block is selling the artist's entire back catalogue for pretty much the same price.

The trick is to let those who want a race to the bottom get on with it - more room at the top for those charging much more!

Earlier replies mention Apple. Yes they are expensive products, the retail cost of the product is often twice the component parts and the making the product.

And Apple is never the first into a market, and will keep out of markets they no they can't be the best in. It's not just the product and its component parts you are buying, an yes you could say you are buyin ginto a lifestyle with Apple too, but here's something I learnt recently.

The size of and iPhone and it's screen isn't just by chance. It has been meticulously thought about about. Yes there are smart phones with bigger screens, but there are times you'll need to hands to use them.

The iPhone screen is that width and height specifically so it can be used to do anything with one hand. Gripping it in your palm, your thumb can reach pretty much the entire surface of the screen to launch any app, and you can even type with one thumb too, admittedly accuracy takes practice.

My point here is that Apple is more expensive because you are paying for things you didn't notice. if you'd noticed them, then they wouldn't have been designed right.

As an example go and see a show on Broadway, if the lighting is perfect, you won't notice it, it'll be part of the experience of the show. But if a lighting cue is a fraction late, you will notice the error.

I appear to have gotten a little carried away and written rather a lot. And admittedly this has been more about providing a service rather than a selling a product, but I would argue the same still applies.

I keep telling myself I should grab everything I written in different places, and for different people, and stick it all in an ebook and sell it.

Naturally, though, it won't be cheap!

Great advise, so would you recommend on the upsell is where you will gain the financial gains?