If you want to quit your job, then...

12 years ago

Well said. The one thing so many people seem to forget is that planning is key. Good thread I would imagine that it won't be very popular because most people don't like to do this part. Nor do they now how important it actually is.

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phil.wheatley 12 years ago

Originally Posted by bilkat19

Good thread I would imagine that it won't be very popular because most people don't like to do this part. Nor do they now how important it actually is.

Haha, very true. Actually, as I was writing it, I thought "Hmmm, what a boring thread I'm creating lol". It's a shame people don't do this, because while it's boring, the money made from taking this first step isn't boring. Also, what a lot of people don't realise is Internet Marketing is full of boring tasks which you just do over and over again...at least until you get to the point of outsourcing.

Cheers
Phil
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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by phil.wheatley

but so many people DO'NT do this

Why do you say that?

It's about the most basic thing you would think of when trying to work out how to make money - isn't it?

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phil.wheatley 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Why do you say that?

It's about the most basic thing you would think of when trying to work out how to make money - isn't it?

Hi Andy

Yeah, sorry, I don't have anything to back that statement, and it does seem a basic thing to do, but I'm pretty sure a lot of people don't work this out. It probably seems more obvious to you as you are much more experienced. I'm just hoping newer people can benefit from it if they are not doing it.

Cheers
Phil
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Bill Hugall

12 years ago

It is no secret that you guys from the UK are leading the way in this field. So when I say that most people don't do it, I am referring to North Americans. We are simply no taught to think ahead. Anyone who wants to dispute this fact can simply look at how well positioned we all are to retire by 60 well. We need more people to think like this. While it is commons sense, it doesn't mean they teach it in school.

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Rick Britton

12 years ago

If you are making $4000 net from a j.o.b you would need to be making much more than $4k to quit

In my job I had a car, phone, lap top, paid holidays (25 days), pension contributions, sick pay, private health insurance and a private gym membership

Only problem was getting laid off - still haven't replaced the income

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magicash

12 years ago

It really is that simple too. I've made attempts through the years to "make my stand" with my own online business, spending countless hours and more money than I care to admit on how-too's and tools to do it. I would either fail miserably or just get below average returns.

So I switched gears and started working doing freelance web development which was great because I was finally making an ok income from home, but I was still "working for the man". Then I figured out a similar equation that Phil started with: How much do I need, whats my product, how many sales do I need.

So I just made one simple product (an ecommerce template - I'd been blindly building tons of them for other people instead of making them a resellable product, DUH!), figured the number I needed to sell, and BAM - the clouds parted, fog lifted. No complicated methods or instructions, just a simple plan put into ACTION.

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Alex Mensah

12 years ago

Thanks for sharing Phil many people try to make a million dollars online but in reality if you can make a dollar online then you can make a million just by scaling up from what method you used to make that dollar.

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phil.wheatley

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Mensah

Thanks for sharing Phil many people try to make a million dollars online but in reality if you can make a dollar online then you can make a million just by scaling up from what method you used to make that dollar.

Oh man, Alex, you hit the nail in the head. People try and hit it out the park with one product, and when it doesn't make a ton of cash, they move onto something else. I know that for sure becasue I did the same for years!! I learned from Travis Sago that if you even start making just a sale or two with a product, then you are onto something. In fact, you may have hit gold. Then you just have to start digging. Again, seems obvious, but most people move away from that spot and start digging somewhere else.

Cheers
Phil

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mindreaderwriter Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by phil.wheatley

People try and hit it out the park with one product, and when it doesn't make a ton of cash, they move onto something else.

So true, Phil. With my solid experience working in the BPO industry (when I was still an employee), I learned to do the root-cause analysis whenever we're not hitting our KPIs (Key Performance Indicators), or whenever we're just hitting the passing level, and not exceeding it. It's vital that we find the "big rock" whenever we fail on something. It's a matter of thinking what was done right, what went well, and what could have been done better.
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Daniel Thompson

12 years ago

Originally Posted by phil.wheatley

Oh man, Alex, you hit the nail in the head. People try and hit it out the park with one product, and when it doesn't make a ton of cash, they move onto something else. I know that for sure because I did the same for years!! I learned from Travis Sago that if you even start making just a sale or two with a product, then you are onto something. In fact, you may have hit gold. Then you just have to start digging. Again, seems obvious, but most people move away from that spot and start digging somewhere else.

Cheers
Phil

As you were stating above - I know that if you find a process online that makes a sale or two fairly easily, you almost certainly have struck gold!

Especially if it is in an area that you enjoy writing about or participating in discussions about. That is called Heaven....

The point I thought I would bring up here is this:

Most people who get into IM or come to the warrior forum are from the "job" world. They are used to working for a boss that provides them work to do and a paycheck at regular intervals. And they've learned to accept and even appreciate working conditions that end up changing them into unproductive and less valuable people.

The worst habit for these "regular" people is the desire for money to come in at reguar intervals-- that is if they are desirous of converting over to a lifestyle of IM or other self employment.

Just about anyone following IM has heard the term, at least once- "Money loves speed". If you finally find that great combination of offer and conversions where you invest $20 of advertising and within 5 days you have profited $100 - you will have experienced it for yourself! Unless you just hate making money, you will invest every extra dollar you can to promote that offer.

You can make tens of thousands of dollars on the offer before returns start dropping off. And if your offer is really unique and hard to replicate by "me-too'ers" (possibly in a difficult to learn niche) you may have something that has legs for years!

That is how money is really made in the IM business. In chunks!

There is always a functional life for any product, and the greatest value for IM products are usually at the beginning - right after it has just been released. The WSO is a perfect example of a typical life of any product in IM. Tons of traffic is sent to the best WSOs (based on payout and other considerations for Joint Venture mailers), the bulk of all possible interested individuals ends up with their eyes on the offer and they have the choice to get it or not.

With a diminishing number of fresh eyes on the offer day after day, returns drop off to a stagnant few, and the WSO stops getting bumped to the top anymore.

Here is the good news. WSO creators have made $50K or more from one WSO alone. John Thornhill is well-publicized to have made more than $100K from just one wso after upsells and downsells are considered.

The bad news is much the same as it is for people who are actors. Feast or famine.

Unless you do lots of little launches that don't take a lot of effort, that bring in a few $1000 each time. Problem is, you are working all the time, probably more than when doing a straight job.

My whole point was: acknowledge to yourself that IM is nothing like "real" work. It can (and very likely will) pay off very well, but not like the job you want to leave.

Daniel Thompson

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phil.wheatley 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Thompson

The bad news is much the same as it is for people who are actors. Feast or famine.

Hey Daniel

Cool post, thanks. I can offer one exception to this, and that's monthly membership sites, I think that is why they are so popular, it's as close as you can get to regular money, and you don't have to keep pitching to that person every month.

Cheers
Phil
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iamandregil 12 years ago

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- pers1t 12 years ago
  
  Also it is important to know that internet constantly changes, methods evolved, and what worked for you 1 month ago won't bring a single penny now. So it is very important not to rely on 1 income stream after leaving a job.
  
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bmokranus

12 years ago

Very nice thread, to make living with internet marketing we have to think SIMPLE, and that's how people can do it

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Noel Cunningham

12 years ago

Very nice post indeed...and you know what it all does start with a little Planning. You need that Blueprint or Roadmap to Success.

If you have this plan and implement it bit by bit then you have a good chance of making progress and (may be) one day being able to fire your boss. I think far too many people think "I'm gonna make money online" and just jump into it too soon without giving it the necessary thought and consideration.

If after all your goal is to make enough money to leave your day job then you HAVE to treat it as a Real Business. And all businesses Plan, but not only plan they also implement and take action... Sure it can be a long road but it is doable like Phil outlined above.

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phil.wheatley 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Noel Cunningham

If after all your goal is to make enough money to leave your day job then you HAVE to treat it as a Real Business.

Hey Noel

People need to read what you've said there many times over. As you know, there are people making money out of telling people that IM allows you to jack off all day, or sit on the beach having massage oil rubbed on your botty (lol, sorrym not sure where that came from)......but it's true, it does invlove work, and it can be pretty dull at times.

Even Frank KErn admited on a video a while ago that actually, most days he is working hard, and then he can take the odd day to mess about. Of course, there comes a point where you can pay for really good writers to create content, and then pay a VA to do all the uploading and all that stuff. I have one VA, but even so, I still have to work hard at it every day. Sorry, not very inspiring to talk about I know, but if people really want the truth, then that is it.

Looking back, if I had my time again and wanted a short cut, I would have soent more time building relationship with people, network etc. Trying to do it alllll alone is something that has cost me time and money.

Thanks
Phil
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MaryP002

12 years ago

Originally Posted by phil.wheatley

Hey Fellow Warriors

If you do this, or know this already, ignore me, but so many people DO'NT do this, and wonder why are finding it hard to get anywhere. Normally, if you get in a car to go on a journey, you know beforehand where you are going, and how to get there. However, in Internet Marketing terms, many never bother to work out what the break down is regarding how many sales you would need to make. If you do just a simplified version below, you are ahead of most people.

Step 1: Look at what your monthly gross salary is (before tax). Let's say for example it's $4000.

Step 2: Look at the commision of the main product you are promoting, either as an affiliate or it could be your own product. Let's say you are getting $27 per sale.

Step 3: Divide your gross salary by the sale value, so $4000 / $27 = 148. This is the number of sales you need to make per month.

Step 4: Divide that by 30 days to give you a rough figure for the number of sales a day you need to make. So, 148 / 30 = 5 (4.9 rounded up). So, you now know you need to make around 5 sales a day.

These are of course rough figures, you all know some days you make more sales, some days less. Also, you may have up sells, down sells and so on. If not, you should do ;-)

Anyway, the point of all this, is if you are currently getting one sale a day, look at what is working to get that sale, i.e traffic source, and then do more of that. It could be more video marketing, or more articles, more blog posting or whatever.

Also, it might be time to look at tweaking your landing page / sale page. Even just changing your headline can double your conversion!

Hope this all helps some how.
Thanks
Phil

Then how would it be? As an IM newbie, it takes around 1 to 2 years to make the first sale?

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peewhy

12 years ago

@Marypoo2 This might sound as if I'm lookinmg for an argument but I'm merely trying to understand your post....why would it take 1 to 2 years to make a sale?

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CyborgX

12 years ago

Nice thoughts. But its very tough to continue a steady income for a long time in this competitive market. There is no way to roll the dice and see what happens.

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honestim

12 years ago

Hey Phil

Thanks for this very useful thread. I am sure it did start out dull for many of us but that does not change the underlying truth embedded in the post. Even Robert T Kiyosaki (Rich Dad fame) said making money is a simple, repetitive and boring process and that is one of the major reason why most of us will never get rich. Because we need to find something new and exciting to do every other day.

Cheers
HonestIM

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phil.wheatley

12 years ago

Originally Posted by honestim

Hey Phil

Even Robert T Kiyosaki (Rich Dad fame) said making money is a simple, repetitive and boring process and that is one of the major reason why most of us will never get rich. Because we need to find something new and exciting to do every other day.

Cheers
HonestIM

Yeah, it's a sad fact, but true. As long as you come into this with the right mindset then you have some chance of making it. The mindset needs to be things like: sticking at one thing for long enough, not expecting to be making lots of money after 3 months, treating it like a business and not "I need to make some money quickly to pay the bills"...type thing.

Cheers
Phil

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MattBrighton

12 years ago

i always like working like this, when you break things down more simply, everything becomes easier.

At first, saying to yourself, "I need to make $4000 a month online" and even when you say, oh I need to make 148 sales a month, but when you break it down to 5 a day, it makes it sound that little more easier!

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FrankWellington

12 years ago

Very insightful post!

Thank you,
Frank

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Sarevok

12 years ago

Planning is key.

If you don't have a plan, I can probably guess your bank balance within a few hundred dollars.

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imkaren

12 years ago

I think after plan in detail, most of people will rather stay at work. In fact, working is much more easier than making own online business. That's my opinion.

But I like to do what I am interested, so working is not an option for me..

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mindreaderwriter

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by imkaren

I think after plan in detail, most of people will rather stay at work. In fact, working is much more easier than making own online business. That's my opinion.

Let me get off the topic a bit.

I will have to agree on you, Karen. Let me give an example based on my experiences. Here in my country, the Philippines, most needy people act and feel busier (as if they're really busy) than those who are well-off. There's this one time that I volunteered in our village to invite people who would want to learn and do business - an MLM business. I didn't require them to pay a dime. It's purely an educational class - you come, you sit, and you eat (at my own expense). Needless to say, it's really a non-profit session for me but to those who will attend. I laid down on the table the proofs of earning of those who tried the business, I showed some pictures of luxury cars bought from the money earned through the business, and one thing just happened.

They don't want to try the business because they prefer staying at home selling street foods in front of their house or working in a factory. I was like "What the heck?! I already showed and made you feel some cheques as proofs of earning together with the cars and actual/live statements of earnings of members and yet you're acting as if you're busier than I?"

LOL... There's one thing that should be worked on the people whom I gathered. I needed to help them develop their entrepreneurial mindset before I offer them some work.

From that day on, I promised to myself that I'll only teach those whose motivational level is like when you're soaked into the water until your last breath and you're about to see St. Peter. The problem of the people in my village (perhaps the entire country) is not about "skill" but "will."

I'd rather spend my time with a "willed" than a "skilled" person.

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cdwyland

12 years ago

This is such a basic concept that it doesn't really need an explanation, and the OP got it wrong anyways.

You can't say I make $X at my employer and therefore I have to make $X while self-employed.

You are neglecting the fact that your employer pays half of some of your taxes. Your employer also provides you with benefits such as health, dental, etc.

You have to make more self-employed than you do working for someone else to have the same standard of living.

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elzafonv

12 years ago

Originally Posted by cdwyland

This is such a basic concept that it doesn't really need an explanation, and the OP got it wrong anyways.

You can't say I make at my employer and therefore I have to make while self-employed.

You are neglecting the fact that your employer pays half of some of your taxes. Your employer also provides you with benefits such as health, dental, etc.

You have to make more self-employed than you do working for someone else to have the same standard of living.

Well said. These are my thoughts exactly.

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ryuchi

12 years ago

This is so true, a lot of people who are into internet marketing forgets about the figure. There should be a number basis when you work in order to have goals which can help you more productive.

Quitting your job should not be an option until you achieve the right amount of success in your field.

Ryuchi

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RichBeck

12 years ago

Originally Posted by phil.wheatley

Hey Fellow Warriors

If you do this, or know this already, ignore me, but so many people DO'NT do this, and wonder why are finding it hard to get anywhere. Normally, if you get in a car to go on a journey, you know beforehand where you are going, and how to get there. However, in Internet Marketing terms, many never bother to work out what the break down is regarding how many sales you would need to make. If you do just a simplified version below, you are ahead of most people.

Step 1: Look at what your monthly gross salary is (before tax). Let's say for example it's $4000.

Step 2: Look at the commision of the main product you are promoting, either as an affiliate or it could be your own product. Let's say you are getting $27 per sale.

Step 3: Divide your gross salary by the sale value, so $4000 / $27 = 148. This is the number of sales you need to make per month.

Step 4: Divide that by 30 days to give you a rough figure for the number of sales a day you need to make. So, 148 / 30 = 5 (4.9 rounded up). So, you now know you need to make around 5 sales a day.

These are of course rough figures, you all know some days you make more sales, some days less. Also, you may have up sells, down sells and so on. If not, you should do ;-)

Anyway, the point of all this, is if you are currently getting one sale a day, look at what is working to get that sale, i.e traffic source, and then do more of that. It could be more video marketing, or more articles, more blog posting or whatever.

Also, it might be time to look at tweaking your landing page / sale page. Even just changing your headline can double your conversion!

Hope this all helps some how.
Thanks
Phil

Phil,

An excellent post... But you are missing a few vital pieces...

Take step one...

Step 1: Look at what your monthly gross salary is (before tax). Let's say for example it's $4000.

You must also include the "hidden" (unreimbursed) expenses for working...

Automobile - gas, oil, maintenance, etc.
Clothing - suits, dry cleaning, etc.
Other Expenses - related to your specific profession

These could easily take $500 USD per month or more from your net income....

Using your $4,000 USD gross... You would probably net $3,000 after taxes...
Subtract the $500 for "hidden" expenses.....
Your net income is now $2,500 out of $4,000....

Now, for the "illusion" of "paid time off"... Most US companies give you four weeks off total with holidays, sick days and vacation....

I have never worked at a company where I have worked less than 240 hours per year of unpaid overtime.... That is 30 days or six weeks.... So, instead of "getting paid time off".... I'm giving them at least two weeks or 80 hours of "free work".....

You also have to factor in the hours you are commuting..... Those are unreimbursed hours as well.... Roughly 360 or more hours per year for me...

On to the medical and dental, if your employer offers it.... You need to compare the cost of buying it outright on your own instead of paying a portion and your employer paying a part... But, you can write these off as an employee of your own company......

Some food for thought....

God Bless,

Rich

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RedShifted

12 years ago

Originally Posted by bilkat19

It is no secret that you guys from the UK are leading the way in this field. So when I say that most people don't do it, I am referring to North Americans. We are simply no taught to think ahead. Anyone who wants to dispute this fact can simply look at how well positioned we all are to retire by 60 well. We need more people to think like this. While it is commons sense, it doesn't mean they teach it in school.

Lets not get too far ahead of ourselves.

I'll tell you my honest opinion. I believe people in the UK are able to work just a bit more effeciently than North Americans BECAUSE they REFUSE to work more than 8 hours a day.

I have outsourced TONS of work in the US, UK, China, India, Singapore, etc etc. I tend to get the best service from asian countries.

When it comes to UK or India, I can't tell you how many guys have outright just stopped working on one of my projects because they've worked their 8 hour day and refuse to work a minute more.

They will even say "I've worked 8 hours already and its time to go the pub now" with their UK accent.

People from the US, I never hear that.

Usually because so many americans work 10-14 hour days, and are always focused on MORE work rather than how they can finish the same amount of work in less time. Thats just what I've seen personally in my life.

But enough with the generalizations as thats not what this thread is about, just had to vent since I saw someone picking on us North Americans. =]

We work harder than any other country I can think of, and I'd like to say thats a fact. Working efficiently however may be another story.

-Red

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jjerryr3

12 years ago

One other small input.Do not get side tract on your journey, stay the course and keep trying until you get where your going.

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SergioFelix

12 years ago

I have seen this exact same strategy laid out by Frank Kern before only with a twist...

Instead of focusing on how much do you make a month, he focused on living a dream.

What car do you want to drive, how much does it costs?

Your house... how much would it cost?

He did the same for every single bit until he came out with a total figure.

He then divided that by 12, for each month, then divided that figure by 4 to get the weeks and finally the last result divided by seven to get the total amount you should earn in a day to have that lifestyle.

In case you haven't watch that video yet, I can tell you in advance that he was being really dreamy about all the cool things to have in life and the last figure for a day was very doable.

I believe it is just about proper focus and some massive hustling and you definitely can have anything you want.

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ezeway 12 years ago

The plan is the key, so if you fail to plan, then you plan to fail. I hope this makes sense guys I learned this when I was involved into the MLM... and its so god damn true...
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thebiwriter

12 years ago

This makes perfect sense. I'm just a mere article writer, but I know how much I need to make per day to pay my bills (not making it yet), and how much I would LIKE per day to really be set. But I'm so low on the pole that I'm asking for pennies. (I don't have a job to quit.) You guys have great information on this forum - thanks for sharing. Knowing where you want to go is the first step to getting there!

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Palusko

12 years ago

I disagree. Beside the fact that in U.S. your paycheck also covers medical, retirement etc, to base your business on number of sales of one product is shortsighted. One Panda and you are screwed. You need a real STRATEGY, and a real business model, not a simple earning calculation to do this full time for a long haul. A business needs more foresight than knowing how many affiliate commissions you need to earn to supplement your current income.

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JohnMcCabe

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Palusko

I disagree. Beside the fact that in U.S. your paycheck also covers medical, retirement etc, to base your business on number of sales of one product is shortsighted. One Panda and you are screwed. You need a real STRATEGY, and a real business model, not a simple earning calculation to do this full time for a long haul. A business needs more foresight than knowing how many affiliate commissions you need to earn to supplement your current income.

It doesn't even need to be a Panda.

Quick, tell me the number one seller of pagers...

How about the top-selling consumer Betamax machine?

For that matter, try buying a VHS VCR anymore.

A change in the technology can wipe you out, unless you keep your eyes open and have a plan in place.

If you're going to follow the 'Kern Model', make sure you add in things like retirement savings, medical insurance, any other insurance that makes sense for you (and if you have a family, that includes life insurance). Don't just add up the beach house and the sports car and the other toys.

The way most people run their "business", if they step in front of a bus, anyone they leave behind will be high and dry.

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cjreynolds 12 years ago

I'm still workin the 9-5... I want to do IM full time, but I don't think I'll be comfortable doing that until I have at least 2 (preferably 3) income steams each bringing in at or near enough money for the basics (food, bills, gas, etc.). I also, to my way of thinking, wouldn't want to rely heavily on Google, or any one traffic source for that matter. Same with monetization.

Maybe I'm just paranoid, or like one of the other posters mentioned, I'm too attached to the steady paycheck, but having to worry about an 'on-again, off-again' income would be worse than working a job
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