Are some People on this forum too obsessed with SEO

54 replies
Hi fellow warriors i have been noticing that many people on this forum seem to be almost obsessed about seo and getting top google rankings for their sites and keywords without trying to build a sustainable long term business model. By long term business models i'm referring to list building, creating quality products which answer people's needs and problems, article syndication etc.

I am not trying to have a go at people especially newbie's, indeed i until recently was focussing too much of my attention on this method to generate traffic and revenue, only for penguin to cause my rankings and many many other's to drop off a cliff.

The point is i learned from that experience and have moved more into product creation, list building etc. to try and build a proper sustainable business model, but, other warriors some of whom have been here many years are still trying the same things.

To bring my point out even clearer there are some people who were doing well with seo pre panda/penguin, then lost their rankings almost overnight having used one seo provider, and then the provider shuts down for a time, re opens using "new methods" to rank and then same people are back again subscribing to the same providers service. I find that really strange, i mean surely that's a warning sign that this isn't the way forward in the long term. Does anyone here think that people should be made more aware about this, and to stop chasing a short term buck over long term sustainability and credibility, indeed why are some people doing this?
I am interested in other warriors views on this!
Kind regards Joel
#forum #obsessed #people #seo
  • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
    N.B I think the title should have been - are some people on this forum obsessed with seo!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462417].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JFrenty
    Originally Posted by affilliate pro View Post

    The point is i learned from that experience and have moved more into product creation, list building etc. to try and build a proper sustainable business model, but, other warriors some of whom have been here many years are still trying the same things.

    To bring my point out even clearer there are some people who were doing well with seo pre panda/penguin, then lost their rankings almost overnight having used one seo provider, and then the provider shuts down for a time, re opens using "new methods" to rank and then same people are back again subscribing to the same providers service. I find that really strange, i mean surely that's a warning sign that this isn't the way forward in the long term. Does anyone here think that people should be made more aware about this, and to stop chasing a short term buck over long term sustainability and credibility, indeed why are some people doing this?
    I am interested in other warriors views on this!
    Kind regards Joel
    I think SEO is not a bad thing as such given you can find trustworthy provider. List building is alternative of course, but you need quite a big and responsive list to make good income. Product creation is important in any case, so it's not an alternative to SEO.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462485].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      Thanks for your input, but my thoughts here are that seo just isn't a viable long term business model whereas list building, product creation etc. are. To put it into context i had a site where there was a $20 k deal resting on it retaining it's rankings which it had for a long time, and due to the penguin update it lost them suddenly overnight, so i lost the deal.
      Ultimately, had it kept it's rankings and the sale completed would it have been worth it? The answer is: short term - yes, long term - no, which is my exact point here, this isn't sustainable long term!

      Originally Posted by JFrenty View Post

      I think SEO is not a bad thing as such given you can find trustworthy provider. List building is alternative of course, but you need quite a big and responsive list to make good income. Product creation is important in any case, so it's not an alternative to SEO.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462528].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      I also respectfully don't think you read my whole thread to be honest!
      Originally Posted by JFrenty View Post

      I think SEO is not a bad thing as such given you can find trustworthy provider. List building is alternative of course, but you need quite a big and responsive list to make good income. Product creation is important in any case, so it's not an alternative to SEO.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462541].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SchenkerF
    It depends...
    There are business models where SEO brings a long term income.. for example:
    You create sites, rank them, generate 3-6 month of income, sell it.
    That is a business model that is long term in my opinion.. you need to generate as much traffic as possible within a short time frame and with the least amount of money..
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462542].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      Welcome to the forum btw! That's a fair point and is a business model of sorts i guess. However, i am not convinced that this is a long term business model. For example, if you had spent those months of time, effort and money into let's say product creation and building a list in the process surely you're better off in the long run than building these sites up, selling them, hopefully realising a profit overall, but you now are left with nothing (apart from maybe some cash from the sale)!
      Originally Posted by SchenkerF View Post

      It depends...
      There are business models where SEO brings a long term income.. for example:
      You create sites, rank them, generate 3-6 month of income, sell it.
      That is a business model that is long term in my opinion.. you need to generate as much traffic as possible within a short time frame and with the least amount of money..
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462567].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author SchenkerF
        Thx
        I totally agree with you!
        I wouldn't do this business model alone, it is some kind of part-time.
        Creating Products or Authority Sites with lots of high quality content takes a lot of time. If you can do both, you have a guaranteed income from your "sales" plus the passive income from your other projects like products and authority sites.

        Originally Posted by affilliate pro View Post

        Welcome to the forum btw! That's a fair point and is a business model of sorts i guess. However, i am not convinced that this is a long term business model. For example, if you had spent those months of time, effort and money into let's say product creation and building a list in the process surely you're better off in the long run than building these sites up, selling them, hopefully realising a profit overall, but you now are left with nothing (apart from maybe some cash from the sale)!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462629].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
          Good at least you are providing some diversification to your businesses. However, i am not too sure about the "passive income" thing. There's so much talk about trying to achieve this, like with adsense with blogs etc. but anything that is worth it in life requires hard work, it won't come easy which the sellers of seo want people to think that it will!
          Originally Posted by SchenkerF View Post

          Thx
          I totally agree with you!
          I wouldn't do this business model alone, it is some kind of part-time.
          Creating Products or Authority Sites with lots of high quality content takes a lot of time. If you can do both, you have a guaranteed income from your "sales" plus the passive income from your other projects like products and authority sites.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462822].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author SchenkerF
            It depends what you call "passive income" i think.

            For me, if i outsource everything, it still is "passive income" as I don't have to put time into it.

            Let's make a simple calculation:

            You create a site for 50$ including articles, domain, SEO, ...
            The site will generate an approx income of about 10 to 15$ per Month. With totally ignoring the fact that you already make money during the 6 month, you will be able to sell the site for 80-150$ (depends on niche, ...).

            Minus Investment: +30 to 100$. I'm not that optimistic so let's say 30.

            I know that you can't sell 300 of those per Month as every market is limited but you can sell 20 which is 600$ without a lot of work...

            I do think that this is a viable business model.

            Doing this in addition to products and authority sites leaves you with 3 different kind of income streams..

            Originally Posted by affilliate pro View Post

            Good at least you are providing some diversification to your businesses. However, i am not too sure about the "passive income" thing. There's so much talk about trying to achieve this, like with adsense with blogs etc. but anything that is worth it in life requires hard work, it won't come easy which the sellers of seo want people to think that it will!
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462967].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author WinstonTian
    lol I think of it as pretty wasteful, because you can easily
    do much more by mastering PPC. PPC attacks the paid ads,
    while SEO attacks the organic listings, both of which are
    on a targeted search engine listing page.

    SEO is a good venture if you really know what you're
    doing. If you're a total newbie, and can't even rank in a
    competitive niche within a week, then maybe you should
    switch to other types of methods like PPC/media buys
    which are far more newbie-friendly and less "volatile".

    Winston Tian
    Signature

    Cheers,
    Winston
    The Beginner's Doctor

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462596].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author rob9482
    The trouble with seo is it can generally become all consuming taking up most of your time and you start to slightly obsessed about ranking for particular terms.

    I was very much like this when I first started out and many years ago you didn't have to worry so much about Google updates because they didn't happen that often and there would generally be a quick fix but as Google and algorithms are getting smarter it is getting harder to maintain a stable ranking.

    After being punished by a few updates in the past I have looked towards building traffic from many different sources such as youtube twitter Facebook and of course list building.

    Unfortunately it seems no matter how many times people tell you not to rely on one traffic source until you get caught out and lose a lot of your traffic you don't really listen and generally learn the hard way like I did.

    If someone had told me years ago that I wouldn't be using seo for my main traffic generation I would have laughed in their face as it was my main traffic source and I couldn't really see things changing.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462605].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      Great post Rob thanks for setting it out as it truely is. The strange thing is like i said earlier there are some really experienced warriors who have used a big seo provider here, lost their rankings which he built artificially for them, and complained about it. He then shuts the service down, comes back with a "new way to rank" and the same people are back for more. I find this staggering, and for newbie's i certainly don't think the way to go!
      Great post though.
      Originally Posted by rob9482 View Post

      The trouble with seo is it can generally become all consuming taking up most of your time and you start to slightly obsessed about ranking for particular terms.

      I was very much like this when I first started out and many years ago you didn't have to worry so much about Google updates because they didn't happen that often and there would generally be a quick fix but as Google and algorithms are getting smarter it is getting harder to maintain a stable ranking.

      After being punished by a few updates in the past I have looked towards building traffic from many different sources such as youtube twitter Facebook and of course list building.

      Unfortunately it seems no matter how many times people tell you not to rely on one traffic source until you get caught out and lose a lot of your traffic you don't really listen and generally learn the hard way like I did.

      If someone had told me years ago that I wouldn't be using seo for my main traffic generation I would have laughed in their face as it was my main traffic source and I couldn't really see things changing.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462623].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      You have either learnt fast in your first month of joining this forum, or are an experienced marketer from before you joined. Either way i wish more people on this forum read your post and listened to it!
      Originally Posted by rob9482 View Post

      The trouble with seo is it can generally become all consuming taking up most of your time and you start to slightly obsessed about ranking for particular terms.

      I was very much like this when I first started out and many years ago you didn't have to worry so much about Google updates because they didn't happen that often and there would generally be a quick fix but as Google and algorithms are getting smarter it is getting harder to maintain a stable ranking.

      After being punished by a few updates in the past I have looked towards building traffic from many different sources such as youtube twitter Facebook and of course list building.

      Unfortunately it seems no matter how many times people tell you not to rely on one traffic source until you get caught out and lose a lot of your traffic you don't really listen and generally learn the hard way like I did.

      If someone had told me years ago that I wouldn't be using seo for my main traffic generation I would have laughed in their face as it was my main traffic source and I couldn't really see things changing.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462782].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    Warriors putting too much value, time, and effort into a fickle traffic generation technique that is capable of wiping out their business at any moment because they put all their eggs in one basket? I've never heard of such a thing, and would certainly never accuse anyone of it. :rolleyes:.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462617].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author WinstonTian
      Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

      Warriors putting too much value, time, and effort into a fickle traffic generation technique that is capable of wiping out their business at any moment because they put all their eggs in one basket? I've never heard of such a thing, and would certainly never accuse anyone of it. :rolleyes:.
      Well, I do have reason to believe that people chase
      after SEO for reasons of feeling "accomplishment"
      for being on top of the world for a search result.

      It does feel pretty satisfying.



      Winston Tian
      Signature

      Cheers,
      Winston
      The Beginner's Doctor

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462631].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
        Yep i suspect that "accomplishment" is a part of it and after the google update comes, ego makes people come back for more seo to get them ranked again!
        Originally Posted by WinstonTian View Post

        Well, I do have reason to believe that people chase
        after SEO for reasons of feeling "accomplishment"
        for being on top of the world for a search result.

        It does feel pretty satisfying.



        Winston Tian
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462657].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      LOL great post Joe!
      Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

      Warriors putting too much value, time, and effort into a fickle traffic generation technique that is capable of wiping out their business at any moment because they put all their eggs in one basket? I've never heard of such a thing, and would certainly never accuse anyone of it. :rolleyes:.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462636].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
    No. SEO is just another way to build a brand, reach new prospects and get conversions. Some people do more SEO than others, which depends entirely on what their business model is.

    Obsessed? I don't think so. SEO is a huge industry. People you described in the OP - they aren't SEO's. They're opportunists/backlink buyers. The same thing happens in every niche - PPC, media buys... there will always be people looking to make a quick buck (which almost never happens).
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462634].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      Your point is correct, i guess it depends how it is approached, however, there are many warriors who seem to spend most of their time and money on this, just waiting for a google update and bang they're back to ground zero again, not very smart. Even more scary is the experienced warriors who don't seem to learn, i wonder how much of it is ego!
      Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

      No. SEO is just another way to build a brand, reach new prospects and get conversions. Some people do more SEO than others, which depends entirely on what their business model is.

      Obsessed? I don't think so. SEO is a huge industry. What you described in the OP - they aren't SEO's. They're opportunists/backlink buyers. The same thing happens in every niche - PPC, media buys... there will always be people looking to make a quick buck (which almost never happens).
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462646].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by WinstonTian View Post

      It does feel pretty satisfying.
      Some people are easily satisfied. Doesn't mean they're earning anything :rolleyes:. I feel "accomplished" every time I hit another 1,000 posts on here; but no one has sent me a trophy, or money. But yeah, that great feeling is all that matters .

      Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

      No. SEO is just another way to build a brand, reach new prospects and get conversions. Some people do more SEO than others, which depends entirely on what their business model is.

      Obsessed? I don't think so. SEO is a huge industry. People you described in the OP - they aren't SEO's. They're opportunists/backlink buyers. The same thing happens in every niche - PPC, media buys... there will always be people looking to make a quick buck (which almost never happens).
      I'm surprised you don't see it as an obsession. I'm not saying that you personally are obsessed with it, you are one of the few in the SEO subforum that doesn't make me roll my eyes and sigh. But you see all the people that go in there screaming about zoo animals and how if they "just get to the top with a few 1,000 more backlinks" they'll be rich. They are definitely obsessed. The alternative would be to work.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462686].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
        I agree 100% with you Joe, i really don't think what people like Joe and myself are saying here is earth shattering, i think many people here don't want to accept this or change their approach. If only people tried to build a business and not "a magic solution" which doesn't exist then many more people would make a success in their businesses.
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        Some people are easily satisfied. Doesn't mean they're earning anything :rolleyes:. I feel "accomplished" every time I hit another 1,000 posts on here; but no one has sent me a trophy, or money. But yeah, that great feeling is all that matters .



        I'm surprised you don't see it as an obsession. I'm not saying that you personally are obsessed with it, you are one of the few in the SEO subforum that doesn't make me roll my eyes and sigh. But you see all the people that go in there screaming about zoo animals and how if they "just get to the top with a few 1,000 more backlinks" they'll be rich. They are definitely obsessed. The alternative would be to work.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462716].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author WinstonTian
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        Some people are easily satisfied. Doesn't mean they're earning anything :rolleyes:. I feel "accomplished" every time I hit another 1,000 posts on here; but no one has sent me a trophy, or money. But yeah, that great feeling is all that matters .
        lol it's funny what people sacrifice just to get
        that short fleeting moment of pleasure.

        Winston Tian
        Signature

        Cheers,
        Winston
        The Beginner's Doctor

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462961].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        I'm surprised you don't see it as an obsession. I'm not saying that you personally are obsessed with it, you are one of the few in the SEO subforum that doesn't make me roll my eyes and sigh. But you see all the people that go in there screaming about zoo animals and how if they "just get to the top with a few 1,000 more backlinks" they'll be rich. They are definitely obsessed. The alternative would be to work.
        I suppose you are correct. Just like some people are obsessed with buying WSO's. Or those obsessed with article syndication or any other method. I would say that, in general, some people on this forum are obsessed with instant gratification. Be it buying the latest WSO or winning a forum argument.

        My point is... I don't call them SEO's. To me, they are simpletons chasing the dream of push-button-overnight-riches. The same goes for serial WSO buyers. I don't call them internet marketers or businessmen. Or full time forum posters... they aren't experts.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6463049].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
          Yep, i did the same for a time, and i can assure those pleasure seekers, the down when google slaps your sites is far worse than the corresponding pleasure when it's going well.
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          I'm always amazed at the hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars, not to mention energy and angst, people will spend in the pursuit of "autopilot free traffic.":rolleyes:

          And for those of you who see "autopilot" as the holy grail, I have two words for you...

          Payne Stewart

          (Google it if you don't know...)
          100% agreed!
          Originally Posted by WinstonTian View Post

          lol it's funny what people sacrifice just to get
          that short fleeting moment of pleasure.

          Winston Tian
          Yep it is a business model to generate some extra cash, but should only be seen as that, not a full time income, or solid business model.
          Originally Posted by SchenkerF View Post

          It depends what you call "passive income" i think.

          For me, if i outsource everything, it still is "passive income" as I don't have to put time into it.

          Let's make a simple calculation:

          You create a site for 50$ including articles, domain, SEO, ...
          The site will generate an approx income of about 10 to 15$ per Month. With totally ignoring the fact that you already make money during the 6 month, you will be able to sell the site for 80-150$ (depends on niche, ...).

          Minus Investment: +30 to 100$. I'm not that optimistic so let's say 30.

          I know that you can't sell 300 of those per Month as every market is limited but you can sell 20 which is 600$ without a lot of work...

          I do think that this is a viable business model.

          Doing this in addition to products and authority sites leaves you with 3 different kind of income streams..
          Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

          I suppose you are correct. Just like some people are obsessed with buying WSO's. Or those obsessed with article syndication or any other method. I would say that, in general, some people on this forum are obsessed with instant gratification. Be it buying the latest WSO or winning a forum argument.

          My point is... I don't call them SEO's. To me, they are simpletons chasing the dream of push-button-overnight-riches. The same goes for serial WSO buyers. I don't call them internet marketers or businessmen. Or full time forum posters... they aren't experts.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6463126].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author benf
            The trick with SEO is to realize that it is what the military call a 'Force Multiplier'. By that I mean that if the website has no value, all the SEO in the worlds will not get good rankings, or at least not for long. However if you have a great site, but you are not using the same language (ie keywords) that your target audience is using, then your site will not be seen.

            In my opinion the optimum results from site building come when you spend 80% of your time adding great content, and 10% of your time working on the SEO (the other 10% is your free time to recharge your batteries ).

            And I agree that SEO is not the only way to get your site seen, or maybe not even the best way, but all these other techniques are also Force Multipliers and should be treated as such.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6463248].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
              Originally Posted by benf View Post

              In my opinion the optimum results from site building come when you spend 80% of your time adding great content, and 10% of your time working on the SEO
              I spend about 20% of my time writing and adding amazing content and dedicate the other 80% to off-site stuff which gets visitors to that amazing content. This doesn't necessarily mean SEO or link building.

              Once a site gets so popular that it's pulling in thousands of daily visits without any additional "help", I shift my focus to 80% awesome content/20% off-site work.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6463288].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author benf
                Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

                Once a site gets so popular that it's pulling in thousands of daily visits without any additional "help", I shift my focus to 80% awesome content/20% off-site work.
                Ahh! I am guessing that you start to leverage user generated content at this point. Am I right?
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6463410].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
                  Originally Posted by benf View Post

                  Ahh! I am guessing that you start to leverage user generated content at this point. Am I right?
                  In part, yes. Or simply start posting more. Established websites + tons of new content = incremental traffic growth. But it doesn't work this way when a site is new.

                  That's my experience anyways.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6463449].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
                    Originally Posted by benf View Post

                    The trick with SEO is to realize that it is what the military call a 'Force Multiplier'. By that I mean that if the website has no value, all the SEO in the worlds will not get good rankings, or at least not for long. However if you have a great site, but you are not using the same language (ie keywords) that your target audience is using, then your site will not be seen.

                    In my opinion the optimum results from site building come when you spend 80% of your time adding great content, and 10% of your time working on the SEO (the other 10% is your free time to recharge your batteries ).

                    And I agree that SEO is not the only way to get your site seen, or maybe not even the best way, but all these other techniques are also Force Multipliers and should be treated as such.
                    Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

                    I spend about 20% of my time writing and adding amazing content and dedicate the other 80% to off-site stuff which gets visitors to that amazing content. This doesn't necessarily mean SEO or link building.

                    Once a site gets so popular that it's pulling in thousands of daily visits without any additional "help", I shift my focus to 80% awesome content/20% off-site work.

                    Originally Posted by benf View Post

                    Ahh! I am guessing that you start to leverage user generated content at this point. Am I right?
                    Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

                    In part, yes. Or simply start posting more. Established websites + tons of new content = incremental traffic growth. But it doesn't work this way when a site is new.

                    That's my experience anyways.
                    Now i think this is actually a decent business model, as you are focussing on how to build and grow your business and not trying to game the algorithm. However, there are many here who don't focus on this and when the google update comes they go crying about it here and wonder why this has happened, only to find themselves trying to manipulate google a few months later with the same seo service. Mad if you ask me!
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6465094].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kayfrank
    Even google say you should let the search engines know what your page/site is about. Such as alt tags, title etc. Thats SEO.

    I think people get obsessed about SEO and over optimisation. Italics, bolding, etc. I think thats going too far now with the penguin. It doesn't look natural and google wants natural looking sites and natural looking SEO. Oh dear am I obsessing here...... :-)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462650].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      You're right, google needs to know about your site/s for sure. However, outsourcing to seo providers to get them noticed by google fast, is more my point of issue, it just isn't the way to build a business, even if it works for some time!
      Originally Posted by kayfrank View Post

      Even google say you should let the search engines know what your page/site is about. Such as alt tags, title etc. Thats SEO.

      I think people get obsessed about SEO and over optimisation. Italics, bolding, etc. I think thats going too far now with the penguin. It doesn't look natural and google wants natural looking sites and natural looking SEO. Oh dear am I obsessing here...... :-)
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462667].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    Affiliate Pro,



    Triple posts are very unbecoming .
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462921].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      You're right Joe, i didn't even notice i had done a triple post, i know how to use the multi quote button, but thanks anyway, and double thanks for your informative posts and setting things as they really are.
      Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

      Affiliate Pro,



      Triple posts are very unbecoming .
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462942].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      I'm always amazed at the hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars, not to mention energy and angst, people will spend in the pursuit of "autopilot free traffic.":rolleyes:

      And for those of you who see "autopilot" as the holy grail, I have two words for you...

      Payne Stewart

      (Google it if you don't know...)
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6462953].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
    Yes people are definitely obsessed with SEO. I mean look at the Warrior for Hire section on this forum, or hell even the Social Marketing section on fiverr. Countless threads and services DEVOTED to search engine optimization.

    What has surprised me is the amount of .edu link services that have popped up over the last year. It's like a select few get this idea on how to rank quickly and easily and then boom its all over the net.
    Signature
    You're going to fail. If you're afraid of failure then you do not belong in the Internet Marketing Business. Period.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6463064].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    Obsessive SEO is the result of lifetime newbies producing bad content. It's as simple as that. It's no secret that quality sites that have never had any "forced" SEO tend to make more money than operations where SEO is the centerpiece.

    Another thing is that "SEO experts" selling their services are basically the idiots of online business. That segment has a way of attracting those types for some reason. If I see an SEO offering in a sig, that person's credibility is pretty much blown to me.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6465180].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      Great post, all you seo sellers watch out then LOL. Seriously i agree with you though, harsh but true!
      Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

      Obsessive SEO is the result of lifetime newbies producing bad content. It's as simple as that. It's no secret that quality sites that have never had any "forced" SEO tend to make more money than operations where SEO is the centerpiece.

      Another thing is that "SEO experts" selling their services are basically the idiots of online business. That segment has a way of attracting those types for some reason. If I see an SEO offering in a sig, that person's credibility is pretty much blown to me.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6465207].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Here is a quick question....

    How many SEO companies would exist if they only relied on SEO to market their business?

    If the primary method of marketing for an SEO company is not SEO, that should give you something to think about.

    When you see the owner of a Ford dealership driving a Chevy doesn't that make you go...HUM.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6465262].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      If the primary method of marketing for an SEO company is not SEO, that should give you something to think about.

      When you see the owner of a Ford dealership driving a Chevy doesn't that make you go...HUM.
      Not really... two entirely different things. You picked two totally random examples and somehow joined them together to make a completely illogical conclusion.

      It's like saying that all TV/cable channels should get their viewers through TV/cable ads. Makes no sense.

      Edit: here's another thing to consider... most companies look for ways to "increase business" or "get more visitors". They don't lurk on forum and don't know common terms, such as SEO. They would NEVER go to Google and type in "SEO company".

      Basically, it's just common business sense to go after high quality/high end clients in the more cost and time/effort efficient way. No different than ANY other business model or industry.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6465460].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
        Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

        Not really... two entirely different things. You picked two totally random examples and somehow joined them together to make a completely illogical conclusion.

        It's like saying that all TV/cable channels should get their viewers through TV/cable ads. Makes no sense.

        Edit: here's another thing to consider... most companies look for ways to "increase business" or "get more visitors". They don't lurk on forum and don't know common terms, such as SEO. They would NEVER go to Google and type in "SEO company".

        Basically, it's just common business sense to go after high quality/high end clients in the more cost and time/effort efficient way. No different than ANY other business model or industry.
        Yep i agree with your edit, there's plenty money and buyers on forums which would more than satisfy their business requirements, without needing google. It's interesting to know what David meant though!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6465547].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author David Keith
        Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

        Not really... two entirely different things. You picked two totally random examples and somehow joined them together to make a completely illogical conclusion.

        It's like saying that all TV/cable channels should get their viewers through TV/cable ads. Makes no sense.

        Edit: here's another thing to consider... most companies look for ways to "increase business" or "get more visitors". They don't lurk on forum and don't know common terms, such as SEO. They would NEVER go to Google and type in "SEO company".

        Basically, it's just common business sense to go after high quality/high end clients in the more cost and time/effort efficient way. No different than ANY other business model or industry.
        the question of the thread is "are people obsessed with seo?"

        My answer is that if seo companies are not obsessed about getting business from seo, then neither should your business be.

        Most buyers do not come directly from seo marketing. for every 1 company you can name that gets the majority of its buyers from seo, i can name 50 or more that don't get most of their buyers from seo.

        Heck even the powerhouse companies that dominate google results like amazon don't get most of their buyers from seo. Their buyers come from strategic partnerships, affiliates, and their branding. Not google searches.

        on a percentage basis, there are very few companies that can rely on SEO as their primary marketing avenue and do well.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6465596].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
          Thanks for clearing that up David, i understand exactly what you're saying, the upshot of it is as most seo companies don't focus their business models on it to generate business then people shouldn't focus their attentions on this. However, i feel unfortunately that many people who rely on these "services" don't have a viable business model anyway and are kind of gambling and rolling a dice hoping things will work out for them as soon aspossible, get the rankings and hey presto. Ahh if only this was the way to achieve business success.
          Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

          the question of the thread is "are people obsessed with seo?"

          My answer is that if seo companies are not obsessed about getting business from seo, then neither should your business be.

          Most buyers do not come directly from seo marketing. for every 1 company you can name that gets the majority of its buyers from seo, i can name 50 or more that don't get most of their buyers from seo.

          Heck even the powerhouse companies that dominate google results like amazon don't get most of their buyers from seo. Their buyers come from strategic partnerships, affiliates, and their branding. Not google searches.

          on a percentage basis, there are very few companies that can rely on SEO as their primary marketing avenue and do well.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6465618].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
          David,

          I was replying to this quote of yours:

          Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

          If the primary method of marketing for an SEO company is not SEO, that should give you something to think about.

          When you see the owner of a Ford dealership driving a Chevy doesn't that make you go...HUM.
          Then in your reply to me, you talk about something completely different:

          Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

          My answer is that if seo companies are not obsessed about getting business from seo, then neither should your business be.
          You are free to change your arguments at any time, but don't quote me out of context. I stand by what I said 100%.

          Also, every company has a slightly different business model. I never said that any of them are "obsessed" with SEO or get the majority of their business through SEO.

          Have a good night, I'm off for the evening!
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6465703].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author David Keith
            Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

            David,


            You are free to change your arguments at any time, but don't quote me out of context. I stand by what I said 100%.
            My argument is essentially the same. Seo companies use many marketing methods because SEO is not only super competitive, but there can only be a limited number of "winners" using SEO in any niche. They know this, thus they resort to other marketing methods.

            That is not the case with other marketing methods. If you chose to market using primarily affiliates, many businesses can essentially share 1 super affiliate or get lots of productive affiliates.

            But thats not how SEO works. Its a zero sum game when it comes to rankings. There can be only a relative few winners in any niche.

            SEO guys know this and choose not to concentrate their marketing efforts on SEO because they know that only a couple of them can be winners with high rankings.

            Again, the question was "are people too obsessed over seo".

            Again, my answer is yes, and you have to look no further than the way SEO companies themselves market their own services to realize that you should not be counting on SEO as your primary marketing method.

            If SEO companies are not confident enough in their ability get #1 rankings and to compete for the top spot in google for their business, should you be confident they can rank your site number 1 in your niche?
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6466073].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ymest
    Hi Affiliate Pro,

    I used to be obsessed with it until I got the point that you can really bypass this obsession by producing good and relevant content etc! Nothing and no one is going to trick Google forever, nor should we! Plus, you will only grow your business gradually! I used to believe that writing articles and getting "backlinks" to them would help, but it was all wrong! That was a few years ago but things have changed- and are changing constantly!

    You are going to be better off concentrating on your client's needs and demands rather than Google's algorithms and "how to please" the mighty Google, because this won't happen! lol!

    To me SEO is a mix of many quality factors and it is NOT A RACE! :

    Hope this helps!

    Y.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6465572].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      Originally Posted by ymest View Post

      Hi Affiliate Pro,

      I used to be obsessed with it until I got the point that you can really bypass this obsession by producing good and relevant content etc! Nothing and no one is going to trick Google forever, nor should we! Plus, you will only grow your business gradually! I used to believe that writing articles and getting "backlinks" to them would help, but it was all wrong! That was a few years ago but things have changed- and are changing constantly!

      You are going to be better off concentrating on your client's needs and demands rather than Google's algorithms and "how to please" the mighty Google, because this won't happen! lol!

      To me SEO is a mix of many quality factors and it is NOT A RACE! :

      Hope this helps!

      Y.
      Absolutely does, great post, and all newbies and indeed experienced marketers could do with reading this and stop trying to gamble their way to success, which i feel is what these "seo services" effectively are.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6465585].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
    Banned
    Are some People on this forum too obsessed with SEO
    Are some people on this forum too obsessed with how others choose to run their business?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6465607].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

      Are some people on this forum too obsessed with how others choose to run their business?
      Not really i'm sick and tired of people wasting time and money on this garbage without at least letting them know what they're getting in for, and that this is not the way to do things. I mean heck there are some "experienced" warriors in this thread holding onto the seo myth being the way to make money online and build a business. However, i can see your point, i'm just trying to help others not make the same mistakes that i and many others on this forum have fallen into in the past, and some still keep falling into.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6465638].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    I think alot of people on this forum is obsessed with SEO. Google is a monster, but i get good results with Yahoo and Bing. Alongside that, i also find ways to rank high in Google indirectly. Plus... SEO is just one aspect of my business. I have other traffic sources that bring in alot of visitors for me.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6466646].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      I think alot of people on this forum is obsessed with SEO. Google is a monster, but i get good results with Yahoo and Bing.
      I'm not sure what this means to be honest, how do you find ways to rank indirectly through google?
      Alongside that, i also find ways to rank high in Google indirectly. Plus... SEO is just one aspect of my business. I have other traffic sources that bring in alot of visitors for me.
      I'm glad you are not solely reliant on google for your traffic and business.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6469206].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Charanjit
    if seo is done effectively then it can yield long term results, I think google will change its ranking factors on a growing scale and you need to be one step ahead, personally I think you can still make good money with long tail keywords just depends on the market, or their are all ways new things coming to light.
    Signature

    Want to learn more, read read and read more. http://www.mannusblog.com/index.php/...e-optimisation

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6466705].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author magnus1
    Hey Joel,

    I know what you're saying. I poured my heart and soul into "good" SEO when I started out. Did everything right (or so I thought). Good content, good on & off page SEO then a friggin great big Panda came and sucker-punched me followed by a cute little penguin with a two by four!

    Weird thing is they've climbed back up to where they were before, if not higher in rank now. But I'm done leaving my livelihood in Google's hands. I mainly focus on list building and paid traffic now.


    Cheers,
    Michelle
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6467439].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      Well done Michelle, i also poured everything into this only to get "penguined". This isn't the way forward.
      Originally Posted by magnus1 View Post

      Hey Joel,

      I know what you're saying. I poured my heart and soul into "good" SEO when I started out. Did everything right (or so I thought). Good content, good on & off page SEO then a friggin great big Panda came and sucker-punched me followed by a cute little penguin with a two by four!

      Weird thing is they've climbed back up to where they were before, if not higher in rank now. But I'm done leaving my livelihood in Google's hands. I mainly focus on list building and paid traffic now.


      Cheers,
      Michelle
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6468748].message }}

Trending Topics