30 Day Refund - Customer wants refund after 45 days

[Steve Mount]

I received an email last night from a customer who wants a refund for one of my products. They did not give me a reason, but I located their purchase and found out that it was 45 days ago that they bought it.

I emailed back and told them that I have a 30 day refund policy. The guy emailed back and basically told me I lost a customer... etc.. so now I'm wondering if I should have just sent the refund or not.

So ease my mind.

Even though I clearly have a 30 day refund guarantee on my sales page, should I have just sent him a refund anyways, or do I stick to my 30 days and have a pissed off customer?

[Chris Kent]

The problem is that he could try a credit card chargeback.

As much as this guy is being an idiot when the rules were clear, I would just give it to him.

Some disgruntled customers are crazy too and will try to track you down!

15 days over is not too bad. Isn't there someone on here who heard from a customer like 3 years later??? lol!

[radhika]

Which payment processor you use? Usually CB, 2CO offers 8 weeks refund policy to be implemented by merchants. In this case refund it back.

If it is your own merchant account then deal with it saying the product is offered with 30 day refund policy only. He will go for charge back? He may ...

.

[Steve Mount]

Sorry, this was a product sold through PayPal on my own website.

[Brad Gosse]

Give the refund, you will have headaches otherwise

[ebizman87]

An Unhappy Customer = Will Destroy Your Good Reputation + Create BAD Publicity + Lose NEW Potential Customers= Revenue Loss

[Steve Mount]

But the thing that I don't understand is, why put a limit on the refund policy then? Shouldn't we all just say "guaranteed refund - any time"?

Refunders with attitudes are my pet peeve!

[kieljo]

Steve,

There are a lot of reasons why people want refunds so don't take it personal. I had one guy want a refund because he had the product sitting on his desk for a month and felt that he shouldn't have to pay for something that he wasn't using. I gave him a refund anyway. I wouldn't concentrate on your policy as much as getting rid of the dead weight so to speak. I usually send an email with their refund telling them that I'm sorry that I couldn't help them and then ask them if I can help them in any other way. They are satisfied and, as for you, this is just a part of doing business and hopefully retain a customer for future products.

John

[radhika]

Originally Posted by Steve Mount

But the thing that I don't understand is, why put a limit on the refund policy then?

In the hope that it will stop some refunders I guess.

But paypal won't support digital products. So he can submit a dispute. right?

.

[Kay King]

If you already told him no - I'd stick with that answer.

If he's refunding he's no longer a customer and if your 30 day refund period was clear on your sales page, I wouldn't second guess myself on my decision.

A friend who buys a lot of stuff online (but seldom uses it) told me recently she had requested refunds on "some ebooks I bought in the past few months". When I asked about the refund policies she said she needs money now and "some of them might give me my money back".

kay

[markph]

Personally I would refund him. people like this you don't want to deal with on any level.
It is customers like this you don't want. probably took them 45 days to read it!

Let me tell you a brief story. A friend of mine was selling his own product. this guy asked for a refund and it was his own clickbank product. So he told him to go through clickbank. End of story right...Wrong. This person turned up at his house just to complain and get his money back in person!

Moral of the story is give them refunds and use a box address on your autoresponder!

[Mark Dulisse]

I tried to get a refund at Walmart last week after 40 days, I couldn't do it..lol.

[Ivancho]

If I were you I will stick up with my refund policy... The guy should read before purchase ...

[LB]

Just give it and move on.

Some people will file chargebacks or complaints with their attorney general just out of spite.

Think of the energy wasted dealing with this guy, posting on the forum and stressing over what to do now. Just refund.

The answer to your question, "why set a refund term at all?" is that 99% of people will abide by it and the 1% who don't wouldn't no matter what. People ask for refunds even when the page states clearly "no refunds" and will just do a chargeback if they don't get it.

[RayAndLisaJ]

Do to it being past the 30 day term I would have inquired as to why they wanted a refund and let the answer to that guide me to a response. I get that you want to make people happy but at this point you inital no already lost the customer so me, I would stick with my decision.

[Najat Engineer]

don't give it to him if you already said you won't

but next time don't waste your time with people like him,
you know you don't need their money, so just give it to them..

[JamesPenn]

I'd give the refund.

About three years ago I was selling some eBooks on eBay. I had one customer buy one of the eBooks for like £2. This customer had an issue with downloading so he added me on MSN and we sorted it out. About 12 months later this guy starts talkingg to me and says he's in financial difficulty and would really appreciate a refund on the £2 product. I couldn't believe he was actually asking for a refund, but I gave it to him anyway.

[CmdrStidd]

I am still fairly new to IMing so please bear with me on this but as I read your post, Steve, I noticed that the gentleman did not give a reason for the refund. It seems to me like the best approach would have been to email him back and demonstrate your interest in helping him, then ask him why he is requesting the refund? It might have been something that the two of you working together on could have solved without losing a customer or giving the refund. However, if they start to act the fool then it is always best to just give them a refund and move on. That is how I did things in my printing business and I never had any complaints.

[Nathan Hangen]

You have to draw a line somewhere, and Kay is right...stick with your word.

He already wanted a refund, so what kind of customer was he really?

45 days is plenty of time and I think you'd win a PP dispute in this case.

There is a difference between customer service and being abused by customers.

[ChristineC]

From my offline experience I'd say forget the angst and refund, it's not worth your time or energy to get upset about it. Sometimes unhappy customers become "best" customers as well, so it's worth maintaining cordial relationships.

This might be a really good opportunity to quiz someone why they want a refund, and find out more about their feelings about your product .... or not. I think you should ask them why they are refunding regardless of whether that will influence your refund decision.

One thing a stipulated time limit for a refund does is it encourages them to read or use their purchase while they are still excited about it, rather than them setting it aside until they have moved on to the next thing.

Christine

[GopalG]

Give a conditioanal guarantee asking for some proof before you issue the refund. Thats what the smart marketers do. This will stop them from coming back for a refund. But when people come asking for a refund, give them.. Thats how an info prodcut business is to be run

[terryrayburn]

I would take a tip from Covey's <i>7 Habits...<i>

"Seek first to understand, then to be understood." Ask him *why*. Try to understand it from his viewpoint.

If I was a buyer, and I was asking for a refund for <b>what I considered</b> a valid reason (even after the deadline), and the seller said "no", I would never trust that seller again, and would likely tell my friends that.

But if I were that same buyer, asking for a refund for <b>what I considered</b> a valid reason, and the seller said "yes", my heart would throb at the wonderfulness of that seller, and I would be sure to buy from him in the future, and sing his praises to anyone who cared.

Doesn't that really answer the question?

[tommygadget]

You gave an answer so stick to it. If they keep hounding you, consider giving a refund if they are polite and if you feel like doing so. Also, don't sweat it unless it was a product over $100. One of the warriors who bought my WSO issued a chargeback without even contacting me first. And it was 3 months later. I can count on ONE hand the number of refunds and one of those was a chargeback from someone who didn't even ask me for a refund. That simply proves you can't make everybody happy.

TomG.

[Michael Mayo]

Originally Posted by Steve Mount

But the thing that I don't understand is, why put a limit on the refund policy then?

Hi Steve,

Having a refund policy on your site is like putting a lock on your shed.

It keeps the honest people honest and slows down some of the others
although, it won't stop everyone from getting in.

15 days was not that bad although you're well with in your rights to say
no however, depending who this person is and the resources they have
available could directly effect your future sales.

Another thing to look at prior to deciding on if you should refund the
person is if the person has purchased from you in the past.

If they have and did not ask for a refund then, I would send them a
refund to keep the customer.

If they haven't purchased from you in the past then your really not loosing
a customer, only a prospect.

Heck flip a coin!

Have a Great Day!
Michael

[Woody C]

You have to come from a bigger place than him. Yes, the refund requested was 15 days over your 30 day guarantee, so is it really worth it to lose a potential customer. Maybe he needs that money back now, but one day he will give you more in return, maybe not.

The ego will say that he is wrong and that you must stand your ground. Coming from a higher perspective, you would say that it is one customer and that you are not really losing that much in the long run.

Just don't make it look like you are backtracking like you should have given it to him in the first place. Apologize for not going through with it at first but that you understand he probably needs the money for more important matters. Then let him keep the product and wish him good luck. That way he doesn't feel like he has pulled one over on you and it turns any "guilt" back to him. Reciprocity gives you a strong leveraging advantage.

As for having a refund policy, it should be used to regulate the time period that a person has to test out the product, but not a strict time to refuse a refund. You have to understand how many people will not ask for a refund compared to how many will (especially after the guarantee period ends). Just ask them not to tell anyone because you want to stay respectable and make them feel like they are getting special treatment. This is very powerful.

[Shane Natan]

I'd probably give the refund anyway, mainly because of the various reasons that have been stated already in the above posts.

However, it pisses me off that situations like this can't just be fair for everyone -- including (and especially) the merchant! For instance, if he had requested the refund within the 30 days, you would've been a gentleman and refunded him promptly.

But, since he missed the 30 day period...he should not be eligible for a refund.

Retail stores use this SAME policy in many scenarios. If it's past 30 days...sorry, against company policy.

In the end it's up to you, but it might be best sometimes to just refund.

Best,
Shane

[TeamGlobal]

Originally Posted by Steve Mount

I emailed back and told them that I have a 30 day refund policy. The guy emailed back and basically told me I lost a customer... etc.. so now I'm wondering if I should have just sent the refund or not.

Hi Steve,

I have to agree with others who said that you should keep your word and stick to your refund policy.

Your customer is angry because they did not get a refund after the refund period was over, not because of anything that you have done wrong.



All The Best,


Tony

[koolwarrior]

I say let him go my friend.

My belief is 'once a refunder, always a refunder'. I've seen some people who constantly ask for refunds on my own list. So, I've gotten into that practice of just removing them after the first refund request. If it's someone who's been on my list a while, and who contacts me often, I won't do it. I can tell it's a legitimate request.

But you'll have people who are like the 99% of lazy sh**s who pay for an ebook to do miraculous without their intervention.

They LOVE to refund, just to snag your product, and get it for free.

Besides, they must not be all there if they didn't realize that it was a 30-day refund policy. Unless it wasn't mentioned on your page, then you're not to blame. That's the stipulation, that's the law.

Although, if it was done via Clickbank or Paypal, they have 60 days regardless, and can go around you to do it.

So...my suggestion, screw him. He'd probably do it again if you give him the opportunity. I know many on this forum will strongly disagree with what I'm saying, but I'm thinking from a practical and economical point of view for HIM.

Trust me, my friend...you're going to get a lot more people just like HIM along this journey...especially if you expect to do BIG numbers online.

More money, more problems.

It's just best to get rid of the 'problems' as they come along by removing them from further correspondence.

In this tough economy, they'd probably ask you for a refund again anyway. So don't allow them to rob you of future earnings as well.

[meldave]

I also would stick with the refund policy. Since you had stated it in black and white the person has no reason to complain. It is their own fault that they procrastinated and did not get back within the 30 days.

David

[shinmenx]

Originally Posted by ProductCreator

Some disgruntled customers are crazy too and will try to track you down!

This is why you use private registration on your domains.

[zeurois]

Get used to it man.

There are people who live from getting stuff for free abusing the refund opportunity. Even if you state you won't refund the money, they can still get it back from the bank claiming a fraud. It happened to me as well, even after 3 months. I couldn't do anything, it was a digital product so paypal gave him the money back.

The only way you can prove it's an abuse is to demonstrate you've "shipped" the product, or maybe somehow prove that the guy still uses it (therefore if you sell a software, make sure it has a footprint)

Just a thought, do what you think it's best for you and take into consideration what others before me said (bad publicity, etc).

[Johnny Slater]

You know, this comes up quite often here. Personally I think it's pretty simple.

If you have a conditional refund policy of any kind, limited amount of time or specific conditions to qualify for a refund, then stick to your written policy.

If you have a no refund policy then dont give refunds.

If you have an unconditional refund policy then give the refund no matter what.

Too many people worry so much about losing one sale that they are blinded to the fact that if you go against your own policy you're not helping the customer. In that case you are proving to the customer that your word means nothing and you are not someone who can be trusted in the future.

In this online world what you do and what you say are very very important. Online we go mostly by trust and reputation. When we say that we will abandon our principles and abandon our own policies just to avoid a potential headache what are we really saying about out character?

If you have a written policy that the customer is aware of before the purchase then do not give the refund unless the request is within the confines of the policy that the customer agreed to by purchasing your product.

Is the prospect of making a few dollars really worth sacrificing your personal integrity? More people need to stop chasing the dollar signs like ambulance chasing lawyers and wake up to the fact that you lose more than you gain when you prove to the world that you don't have enough integrity to stand up for your own policies or that your word means nothing.

[Steve Mount]

Thanks for all of the responses to this! It's really given me a lot to think about. Johnny, your post was a real eye opener too.

Appreciate your thoughts everyone!

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by ebizman87

An Unhappy Customer = Will Destroy Your Good Reputation + Create BAD Publicity + Lose NEW Potential Customers= Revenue Loss

Cats and dogs sleeping together, etc. Seriously, hyperbole much?

The guy emailed back and basically told me I lost a customer... etc.

Oh no, how will you ever get by without this customer buying and refunding on his purchases, lol? The end is near for sure.

I wouldn't worry about it guy. And I wouldn't refund either.

[magneticweb]

You haven't mentioned how much money was involved here, although, as Johnny Slater says, it's not really about the money. But it would be interesting to know.

If it were me I would stick to my policy. If PayPal has a longer time period and gives him his money back anyway then so be it. Just make sure you remove him from your list so you never have to deal with him again. But you'll always get people like that from time to time. If you have to give them the money back just do so in the knowledge that you're really just buying your freedom from having to deal with people like that.

[eagleeye]

Even though your customer was clearly in the wrong I would have given him his money back and told him sorry it didn't work out for you but thanks for trying my product. Maybe he had a really good reason, or maybe he's just a deadbeat, who knows.

He could surprise the crap out of you in a month and say hey, this guy refunded my money and was nice about it so I should buy from him. That product could be $97.

I hate to even type this old cliche' but "The customer is always right", even if they are completely wrong.

Later,
Jeff Sargent

[JayStarr]

Issue a partial refund say 50% or there abouts.. but email him and say"

" look I have been considering your situation and although you no longer wish to remain a customer I do want to make sure your experience with us has been pleasant. As you agreed to before your purchase was confirmed we have strict 30 day refund policy, however I would like to help you out and give you a refund but I would like something back in return, your opinion on the product you bought. From my expereince many people get excited and buy products like ours on impulse but fail to implement the strategies we recommend and find the results are not what they hoped. If this is the case for you then I would like to offer you something I have never done before. I'll issue you a refund for half of your purchase price today (even though its against company policy) plus also give you my personal email address for some one on on email training...."

etc etc.. you get the gist.. build additional value into him staying and atleast you have saved half of the sale and kept a good relationship with one customer, you find the most difficult ones can turn out to be your most rewarding.. it may cost you a few emails and banter back and forth but you might also get more insights into how some of your customers think, plus then keep all the emails and the result and put it into a report to give a away or blog posts to build credibility with your customer base.. just a thought.. because if I was the customer i would be filing a chargeback if I felt ripped off even with a 30 day policy.

Good luck

[Clyde Dennis]

Give the refund and move on. You've got a business to run right?

[AndyBlackSEO]

Steve, I agree with Johnny on this. If you clearly state a 30 day refund policy then you should really stick to it otherwise what is the point of having one. Your customer had 30 days to test your product and decide whether it was for him or not.

Again though, this is down to your own discretion and it's upto you whether you want to refund. Have they bought other products from you?

Also, was his sale though an affiliate? If so then that would put a spanner in the works.

It's one of those things where whatever you do, you lose to some extent. At the end of the day though, you need to remember that you are right and the customer is being unreasonable, so it's just a case of how you handle this request.

[enterpryzman]

I feel strongly that you should just give it and forget about it. I have had a classifieds site for several years that charges 34. US for a 2 year ad. I have had a few request refunds after 7 or 8 months and I have done it....it's no big deal and is MUCH better than them causing a chargeback.

Enterpryzman

[BigCashDetective]

I feel your pain Steve, I have given my share of refunds but sometimes I feel like "word got out" and people are just taking advantage of me!

[cypherslock]

Stick to your policy. After all, if it were a brick and mortar store, they couldn't get away with this. If we cave to people like this, soon we won't have a business.

[Scott Burton]

Sorry for the delay in seeing this thread, I've been down for a couple days.

My perspective, as several people have mentioned is that the limitation on the refund is there to help keep honest people honest.

If I get a refund request after the deadline (but in a reasonable length of time) I'm likely to give the refund, but make them work just the tiniest bit for it. Not making them jump through hoops, but explaining that the refund period has expired, but in the interests of good relations and in the interest of providing the best product for them I can, advise that I am issuing a refund and I would appreciate their answering a survey about the product.

The survey is then just a few questions about why they wanted a refund, what did they not like about the product, were there areas the product could better meet their needs or expectations, etc.

A legitimate refunder can provide some unique insights into where improvements can be made in your products, and many of them will appreciate the opportunity to give their input.

You'll notice that the survey is not actually required as they are refunded right away, but in my experience, I get useful responses back from most of these people. Sometimes input I can't get back from people who DIDN'T ask for a refund.

A legitimate refunder can actually become a great customer. Personally with a little care, I've turned legitimate refunders into recurring customers.

I won't remove someone because of one refund incident. Because not every product is perfect for every customer no matter how well you target.

[chris8918]

My thought would be...what's more important? A customer who bought your product, decided he didn't like it, couldn't use it or implement it, for whatever reason OR sticking to your refund policy? Who knows, this customer may refer someone to you who would buy, after you have made an exception to your rule and gave him his refund OR he may come back and buy another product from you later on. I always look to leave in good standing with all my customers, even if means bending the rules a bit. Your call......

[Dellco]

I'm glad the replies here were mostly "aye."

In the same shoes, I'd refund and move on....

However, does the amount play a part? I can understand some of you saying you would refund if it was $10 or $20, but what if it's $200 or $300?

I know I still would refund....

[Mike Hill]

Here's something I picked up From The Internet Marketing Center and it works extremely well too.

When a customer requests a refund from you send them an email acknowledging that fact and that you can send them a refund immediately but first offer them a chance to get one of your other products (or multiple) instead of getting that refund.

It really works well if the product(s) you are offering in exchange are worth more than the original purchase price of the product he wants a refund for.

Not everyone will take this option but you'd be surprised how many that do and that saves a refund and leaves more money in your pocket.

Mike Hill

[Nomics]

I agree with Mike's advice. A company I used to work for, would automatically upgrade the person's cell phone, if they didn't want to continue past the free trial. Most of the time, they couldn't resist the value presented to them. It helps to "save" an interested customer.

[InternetMarketingCenter]

Mike,

Thanks for noticing!

[Shannon Herod]

I stick to my refund policy. And that means both ways.

If someone asked me for a refund within the given refund period, I will always give that refund.

But, if someone asked me for a refund outside of that refund period I will not give it.

I give a refund policy to take the risk off of the customers shoulders. But, I can only shoulder that risk for so long. So, if you ask for a refund after my refund period I'm not going to give it.

But, if you ask for a refund during my refund period I will always give it without question.

Regards,

Shannon Herod

[Stallion]

You have a choice...

Refund and your relationship is over

OR

Don't refund and have someone pissed off, that could quite possibly charge back on you, which will probably hurt you more.

I'd rather end the relationship, than have someone pissed off.