Membership Sites - I've Had It With Customers Who Don't Read And Blame ME

27 replies
So I am selling a $1 product...its a bundle of 5 lessons...

I also give an Optional Free Bonus of a 3 day trial to my members area. Here is the actual quote from the salesletter...

----
I'll tell you what. I'll even let you even have the option of taking a free trial of the Personal Instruction Program. And remember, it's optional

You can remove it from your shoppingcart if you want, so you are not forced to take this bonus, but it's there if you want it.

If you like the Personal Instruction Program, do nothing and you will be billed $29.99 per month starting after your free trial ends. You can cancel at any time.

Remember, this is just an added bribe to get you to try the oil painting express package. It's there if you want some more lessons, for free...but you're under no obligation to take this free bonus.
----

And then when they leave it in their shopping cart, an autoresponder gets sent to them giving them a URL to go choose their own username and password for the members area...and they are again told How to cancel and they will be charged if they do not cancel.

----

So 3 days later, don't I get 2 emails from people accusing me of Tricking Them And Fraud and Illegal Activities, and threatening to call their credit card company because of the $29.99 that was charged to their card?

Telling me there is NO Link TO CANCEL...They Wanted To Cancel, But Didn't Know How, etc.

Couldn't find how to cancel, but Of course, they knew how to write the email to me accusing me of trickery.

If this is how it is with a membership site...if you have to deal with people, who frankly don't read what they agree to buy, or don't understand what they read...I really don't think it is worth the headache!!!
#blame #customers #membership #read #sites
  • Profile picture of the author quiescen
    Hi Jack,

    Just took a look at your site and it seems straightforward. I've run a membership site for over 7 years now and only one person thought I ripped them off. I try and be as clear as possible (while still using "sales" language."
    Signature

    Play Piano in Just 1-Hour! Free Lesson Shows You How!
    Online Piano Lessons by Quiescence Music

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905012].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Michael J Ottman
      I'm getting ready to open my first membership site and this is a good post because I really want to be able to give quality service and not be blasted by some people who think they get ripped off.

      Unfortunately though, there are many people like this who it does not matter how well you explain it to them. It's proof that they are so focused on the "free" or "$1 trial" that they completely forget to what they agreed to.

      I've heard Mike Filsaime say that when people do this he refunds their money and bans them from ever joining any of his lists or products ever again. It's not worth the hassle for these people.

      Even when Mike was giving away 15,000 new copies of the Butterfly Marketing Membership Script, people complained and caused havoc even before they could officially order the script due to the server crashing.

      These kind of people will always be on the net but nevertheless membership sites are still the way to go in order to have automation and continuity.

      Michael J Ottman
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905030].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Jamawebinc,

        I wouldn't try to tell you how to run your membership, but I'm not at all surprised at the response from your customers.

        IMO, giving them a 3-day trial (which, if I understand correctly, they need to opt out of at the time of purchase) is way too short a period and is just asking for trouble.

        I'd experiment with a longer trial time.



        Frank
        Signature


        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905057].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author quiescen
    Frank ... it doesn't matter. I've tried tons of offers. 1 day, 1 week, and even a month. And some still think I ripped them off.

    I finally settled on having them pay the full month up front. No worries anymore. Plus, and this is a big plus, when I was testing the trial offers, there was no significant increase in sign ups!

    Of course, this may be unique to what I offer, but if you reduce the value, i.e. $1 to try it out, people go in already thinking they're going to bale before the trial runs out.

    I'd really like to hear how others have handled this particular problem and what kinds of offers have worked the best.
    Signature

    Play Piano in Just 1-Hour! Free Lesson Shows You How!
    Online Piano Lessons by Quiescence Music

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905100].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
      Originally Posted by quiescen View Post

      I finally settled on having them pay the full month up front. No worries anymore. Plus, and this is a big plus, when I was testing the trial offers, there was no significant increase in sign ups!
      I'm curious - do you offer a refund now that you no longer have the trial offer?

      Refunds with membership sites have always seemed a bit sketchy to me - if you used a months worth of service then you should pay for the month, shouldn't you? But of course the buyer needs a recourse if the site turns out to be junk (I'm not in any way implying that yours is, I'm sure it's great).

      That's why I like the idea of a free or 1 dollar trial - give someone a week to decide if the site or service is right for them. I feel that if they decide at this point that the site is worth the monthly subscription fee then you shouldn't have to deal with refunds after that.

      The 1 dollar trial would probably scare away the freebie seekers, you could always offer to refund that!

      Just curious as to how you approach this.

      Bill
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905123].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Darla
      Originally Posted by quiescen View Post

      Frank ... it doesn't matter. I've tried tons of offers. 1 day, 1 week, and even a month. And some still think I ripped them off.

      I finally settled on having them pay the full month up front. No worries anymore. Plus, and this is a big plus, when I was testing the trial offers, there was no significant increase in sign ups!

      Of course, this may be unique to what I offer, but if you reduce the value, i.e. $1 to try it out, people go in already thinking they're going to bale before the trial runs out.

      I'd really like to hear how others have handled this particular problem and what kinds of offers have worked the best.
      Well said!! I agree with that view 100%. I just started a membership site and I will NOT offer a trial period. Either they want in and will pay from day one, or they don't. If they do sign up and later decide its not for them, they can always cancel the subscription. I am just not convinced that trial memberships are worth the hassle and headaches of dealing with "freebie seekers".
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905151].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
    I have not seen your site but I find many many sites membership and static one time sales missing "Terms Of Service" "Privacy" "FAQ's" "Contact Support" "Disclaimers" - You should have every one of them as they are designed to protect you from people like this.

    It is fine your sales letter says such and such but at a legal stand point of view your TOS, Privacy, FAQ's, Contact Suuport, Disclaimers will protect you a great deal more than one simple line of text on a sales page that has 10,000 other lines of text...

    James
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905116].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author stonerpreneur
    People are idiots, and you have to assume they are idiots and make it as easy as possible for them to cancel. Hopefully your business will grow enough that it won't be YOU personally that has to deal with the whiners in the near future. Good luck with the headaches
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905133].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by stonerpreneur View Post

      People are idiots, and you have to assume they are idiots and make it as easy as possible for them to cancel. Hopefully your business will grow enough that it won't be YOU personally that has to deal with the whiners in the near future. Good luck with the headaches
      Hmmm. Before we all get carried away with the antics of those "stupid" customers, let's just examine the offer as outlined in the OP.

      First, the customers only decided to purchase a bundle of 5 lessons for $1.

      Then, when purchasing, they were told that they also had a 3-day trial to a full membership. This was described as a "free bonus".

      They had to opt out of this bonus before checkout.

      If they failed to opt out, just 3 days later their card was charged an additional $29.99.

      Now, I'm not suggesting there was any attempt to mislead on the part of the OP. I fully accept that the terms were clearly written out for the customers to see.

      But it's also easy to understand how a customer, who only intended to purchase an item for $1, could feel a bit miffed with the sales process.

      That might explain the high refund rate.



      Frank
      Signature


      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905246].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author quiescen
    Hi Bill,

    I do offer a refund. And so far no one has asked for one. Why? Because I offer a free sample lesson first. They know what they're getting before they sign up.

    The thing with the free trial offers and the $1 dollar offers is they have to be set up just right. Most will go in with the intention of baling before the regular rate comes into play. That's just human nature.

    I've seen Ray Edwards do a $1 webinar where the whole sales pitch is getting you to opt in for $1 and get tons of stuff. Can't tell you how this is working for him though.
    Signature

    Play Piano in Just 1-Hour! Free Lesson Shows You How!
    Online Piano Lessons by Quiescence Music

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905134].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
      Originally Posted by quiescen View Post

      I do offer a refund. And so far no one has asked for one. Why? Because I offer a free sample lesson first. They know what they're getting before they sign up.
      I'm trying to figure out how to do the same thing except with a service (as opposed to a product). The 1-week trial seemed like a reasonable idea, with some restrictions applied so that someone couldn't just subscribe to an infinite number of 1-week trials. Otherwise I'm not sure how you could "sample" a service.

      What is your refund policy -if someone who subscribed for 4 months quit and asked for a 4 month refund would you give it, or do you limit it to a month?

      Bottom line - how do you give an honest deal to honest people while keeping the scam artists from taking advantage of you?

      Bill
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905304].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author quiescen
        Originally Posted by mywebwork View Post

        I'm trying to figure out how to do the same thing except with a service (as opposed to a product). The 1-week trial seemed like a reasonable idea, with some restrictions applied so that someone couldn't just subscribe to an infinite number of 1-week trials. Otherwise I'm not sure how you could "sample" a service.

        What is your refund policy -if someone who subscribed for 4 months quit and asked for a 4 month refund would you give it, or do you limit it to a month?

        Bottom line - how do you give an honest deal to honest people while keeping the scam artists from taking advantage of you?

        Bill
        What I offer is a service as well. Here's my refund policy:

        Our Risk-Free Guarantee: Your satisfaction is completely guaranteed. If you aren't convinced these piano lessons are the smartest investment you've made to further your piano playing pleasure, just let me know within the first month. You'll get a prompt refund of your $19. And you can still keep the course workbook with my compliments.

        I use an opt in form to get their email. They get a free lesson illustrating the "flavor" of what they are going to get. It's a video. But they don't get the step-by-step instructions unless they become a member.

        Plus, I have a fantastic offer (I think so anyone) which is really the second most important thing to sell the membership.
        Signature

        Play Piano in Just 1-Hour! Free Lesson Shows You How!
        Online Piano Lessons by Quiescence Music

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905320].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
        Originally Posted by mywebwork View Post

        I'm trying to figure out how to do the same thing except with a service (as opposed to a product). The 1-week trial seemed like a reasonable idea, with some restrictions applied so that someone couldn't just subscribe to an infinite number of 1-week trials. Otherwise I'm not sure how you could "sample" a service.
        Simple they signup and have access but not access to everything, limited access...

        Originally Posted by mywebwork View Post

        What is your refund policy -if someone who subscribed for 4 months quit and asked for a 4 month refund would you give it, or do you limit it to a month?
        This is a service, do not offer any refunds.. I sure do not offer any refunds because my site is a service, tools, they use the tools - Why would I offer a refund.. Before you answer that read below..

        Originally Posted by mywebwork View Post

        Bottom line - how do you give an honest deal to honest people while keeping the scam artists from taking advantage of you?

        Bill
        Be 100% honest on your sales page, no hype, no misleading stuff, no bloated statements, real testimonials from real people, and etc...

        Also along with the above as I have already explained ... TOS, Privacy, FAQ's, Disclaimers, Support Contact - All 5 of these things should be on the main site not in the members area.

        The members area should contain their own help and faq's section that is just for members.

        James
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905330].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
    Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

    So I am selling a $1 product...its a bundle of 5 lessons...

    I also give an Optional Free Bonus of a 3 day trial to my members area. Here is the actual quote from the salesletter...

    ----
    I'll tell you what. I'll even let you even have the option of taking a free trial of the Personal Instruction Program. And remember, it's optional

    You can remove it from your shoppingcart if you want, so you are not forced to take this bonus, but it's there if you want it.

    If you like the Personal Instruction Program, do nothing and you will be billed $29.99 per month starting after your free trial ends. You can cancel at any time.

    Remember, this is just an added bribe to get you to try the oil painting express package. It's there if you want some more lessons, for free...but you're under no obligation to take this free bonus.
    ----

    And then when they leave it in their shopping cart, an autoresponder gets sent to them giving them a URL to go choose their own username and password for the members area...and they are again told How to cancel and they will be charged if they do not cancel.

    ----

    So 3 days later, don't I get 2 emails from people accusing me of Tricking Them And Fraud and Illegal Activities, and threatening to call their credit card company because of the $29.99 that was charged to their card?

    Telling me there is NO Link TO CANCEL...They Wanted To Cancel, But Didn't Know How, etc.

    Couldn't find how to cancel, but Of course, they knew how to write the email to me accusing me of trickery.

    If this is how it is with a membership site...if you have to deal with people, who frankly don't read what they agree to buy, or don't understand what they read...I really don't think it is worth the headache!!!
    Completely agree...

    And that is why you outsource... For less than $6 a day all of this headache can be avoided... I recently learned this lesson and I am sure it is bringing on the nest in me, now that such emails are a thing of the past.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905161].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
    Something else to consider is some people really just do not know how to cancel. I have had some email me and ask how do I cancel and I send them instructions on how to do it.

    Also had one member that cancelled and I know they did as I got the paypal email, come next month paypal charged them again. I asked her to check her account to make sure no subscriptions was pending and I will check mine. I explained to her as soon as she checks let me know so I can send the information onto paypal. In the meantime I refunded her money because I knew for a fact she cancelled.

    So while there may be "freebie seekers" keep in mind that there are also many that just do not understand. Again this is why you have tos and etc.. Many many membership sites do not even include a help section for members. Maybe if you included a help section it could cover "how to cancel"...

    Just a few thoughts...

    James
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905179].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    If you're getting a high percentage of "idiots" to your website, then that usually means that there's a lack of communication on your part. Now you will always get some idiots to your website no matter how well you communicate. But at some point if you keep attracting "idiots" to your site, you have to start looking at yourself.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905400].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author hitext2
    Oh, boy - does this sound familiar! No, people just don't read what they are signing up for, which makes any kind of trial membership with recurring billing a real problem. A chargeback nightmare...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905552].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Danny Turner
    I think the problem is with the process.You are actually selling two items in one go - the $1 lessons and the membership (with free 3 day ) trial - I can imagine people not reading the whole thing and thinking they are just buying the $1 lessons - If you put the membership as an OTO after the initial signup it would be much clearer -
    While I am sure it is not your intention, making people perform an action to avoid added costs does seam a bit sneaky - better they have to make an action to opt in to the membership - then it's clear what they are signing up for
    Cheers
    Danny
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905760].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    Interesting choice of words..

    Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

    You can remove it from your shoppingcart if you want, so you are not forced to take this bonus, but it's there if you want it.
    The reality is that the customer is being "forced" into
    a paid subscription.

    They have to take action to remove the option from
    their shopping cart rather than to choose to add the
    membership to their shopping cart.

    I'd run a test without forcing the choice.

    John
    Signature
    John's Internet Marketing News, Views & Reviews: John Taylor Online
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[905991].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author billyboy
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[906038].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MJ Schaefer
      I saw an excellent video featuring the behavioral economist Dan Ariely.

      He showed a graph displaying two groups of European countries. One group showed extremely high rates (90%+) of willing organ donors, while the other group showed extremely low rates (10%-) of willing organ donors.

      A cultural thing? No.

      The countries in the second group had received donor request cards asking them to check a box if they wished to become an organ donor after death, while the second group received cards which requested them to check a box if they wished to opt out of such a scheme.

      People are predictable (or 'predictably irrational', to use the title of Ariely's book)

      To that extent, I have little sympathy for your problem.

      It is all very well throwing the burden of responsibility at your customers, but I think that if you need to pull tricks like that then you are obviously not delivering a product that is good enough.

      There are no hard rules, I know that, but I do think it is ethical to give consumers the kind of template they are used to, instead of manipulating the process. IMO you should never have to opt out of a paid 'bonus' - it is something you should knowingly volunteer for.

      There has been more than one guru who has received a bashing on this very forum (from 'stupid' Warriors, I suppose) for models involving forced continuity, dodgy customer service, difficulty in cancellation etc. I just don't think that attempting to snare your customer around the neck is a particularly good way of doing business.

      If you provide a service that people want, you'll get the word-of-mouth, affiliates, and all the business you could ever need. I suppose it goes back to the time-tested cliche of "give and you shall receive" -- give value and you'll get rewarded.

      And as a final note: a lot of people do live close to the breadline, especially in these times. I know just as many people who work their credit cards to the max and pay off the minimum amount each month as I do those who pay it off in full each month. It should come as no surprise that a lot of people:

      a) take the freebies when they are on offer, and
      b) get anxious and scared after their card has been charged

      Call me old-fashioned, but I think providing transparency, value and respect is both the way to conduct yourself in business, and stands the best chance of building a blockbuster income.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[906087].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
    Wow, I forgot all about this thread. I didn't have 1 answer until a few months after I posted it.

    So I guess I should post another updated message in this thread.

    Speaking from a business point of view, it does not matter really who is right or wrong.
    All that matters is how things work.

    If people complain and you get chargebacks, that's the reality of the situation.

    If people get angry and post nasty posts in forums or the rip-off report
    you get bad press, even though you didn't deserve it.

    No matter who is right or wrong, and how clear you made it that people
    were taking a trial that was going to convert to a paid membership etc.

    The reality of the situation is how things work with chargebacks
    refund, complaints, etc. The advantage lies with the customer, not
    the merchant.

    Now the methods well known internet marketers are using to get people into
    their continuity program have clearly been progressing and changing over
    the past 6 months or so. This is evidence that they have had their share of
    problems as well.

    First there was true forced continuity. Where the business model of collecting
    money from a continuity program seemed to be more along the lines of:

    "do not make it easy for the person to cancel"
    "don't make it too obvious they were being added to a continuity program"
    "don't remind them they are being charged if they forgot"

    Almost a little of "hope to make money off people being lazy"

    ----------
    NOTE: Don't large stores do this when they offer a mail in rebate?

    You know...
    You pay $599 now but if you mail in this rebate in 30 days you
    will get $100 back.
    ----------

    This has changed over the past 6 months or so with PDF reports
    such as "The death of forced continuity" and so forth.

    Now the prevailing theory is to make it a clickable option for people to join
    a continuity program when people order another product.

    Or more along the lines of...just make everything an option to
    add to your shoppingcart.

    Although, it does seem somewhat disingenuous for the people who
    used to do it one way, talking down the way they did it for quite a while,
    which most likely led to big profits for some time.

    There are blog posts and products talking about how how forced continuity
    is now a wrong thing to do, etc.

    Ok, that's the reality of the situation and the only thing that really
    matters. No matter what the you think of the responsibility issue or
    moral issue of who is right or wrong.

    So Now - on the other hand, speaking from a morality point of view...

    I agree with a post I read by Jason Moffatt somewhere.
    ( I believe it was in the warrior forum somewhere).

    Basically it stated that people need to take responsibility for the product they order.

    If a product name in your shoppingcart is written in the following way...

    Item Order: Widget A with a 5 day trial to the widget membership program to be
    billed at $29.99 monthly if you do not cancel during the trial period.

    And you claim to not have known you were going to be charged, which
    party has responsibility for the $29.99 charge that goes on the
    credit card?

    A) The person who didn''t bother to fully read the product name, yet
    clicked the "finalize order" button

    or

    B) The merchant who sold the trial membership and explained that
    a charge of $29.99 would take place right in the product name
    on the shoppingcart

    This can be a touchy subject - such as when does the responsibility
    lie with the individual - that can get into political views...

    If the excuse is...the person doesn't read the whole sales letter,
    whose fault is that? Seems to me, the fault lies with the person
    who is ordering.

    If I think a product is $29.99 because I glanced at a sales letter
    and they mentioned something about $29.99 but the product really
    costs $400 and I didn't fully read the promotional material that told
    me the price, I think I am at fault.

    The excuse of "I didn't read it" is not an excuse...It's a reason
    why you did what you did.

    If you say, "Well, I didn't know I was going to be charged after
    my free trial" yet it stated in many places that this was going to
    happen including...

    The salesletter,
    the product name,
    the receipt page,
    the receipt email.

    Then "not knowing" because "people don't read the whole
    salesletter, or don't read their email, etc is a REASON.

    You ordered because you assumed something which only
    happened because you didn't bother to read.

    Claiming laziness (didn't read it all) , or ignorance doesn't
    relieve you of responsibility.

    Not in my eyes anyway.

    Here's an example.

    When I was in Venice, there is a method of payment for taking
    the water taxis. If you do not follow their system, you are charged
    an enormous amount of money if a worker catches you
    while you are on the taxi.

    I saw this happen. When the person ( not from Italy )
    claimed to not know the law or the system of payment,
    they were still fined and charged something like $50
    for a ticket instead of the regular $5.

    An excuse of "I didn't know" did not work to relieve
    them of the responsibility of having to pay the fine.

    Another example...

    When I was in Italy, people were allowed to smoke
    indoors. I am not sure if that rule applies today.

    But, if someone came from Italy to the USA and
    was indoors where a police officer happened to be
    and they lit up a cigarette, they could easily get
    a fine.

    If they claimed "I didn't know you can't do it" well,
    the police officer may let it go, but they also may
    still give them a ticket.

    As they say...Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

    So I do think the responsibility lies with the customer
    to know what it is they are paying for.

    Other people took the time to contact me during the
    trial period to cancel. So those people clearly understood
    what to do. They took responsibility for what they
    ordered.

    As long as you are making it very clear that someone will
    be charged by stating it in the product name, sending
    an email about it, and posting it in the salesletter, etc...
    the responsibility lies with the customer.

    If I purchase a product and there is a trial membership
    and and I do not cancel in time (which has happened)
    I expect to be charged. And I am. I don't complain.
    I don't file a chargeback.

    BUT...like I said before...

    That is my opinion and that does not matter. The reality
    of the situation is the advantage lies with the customer
    not the merchant.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[975944].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
      I agree; people ARE idiots. It sounds horrible, but it's true.

      I just posted this in another thread today:

      "After working in customer service, I don't have a lot of faith in the intelligence of the general public or their ability to read and understand basic sales letters and term and conditions. Sounds horrible, I know, but try working in a call center for a few years. :\. I never had this perception of the general public until I worked in customer service and I hate how I little I think of them these days. But that's what customer service has done for me. As someone said (was it P.T. Barnum?), "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the general public." (Or something like that.)"

      But as jamawebinc, at the end of the day, all that matters is how things work, not who is right or wrong. It can be hard to take the emotion out of it, but that's what we must do: separate ourselves from the emotion of it and look at it purely from a business persepctive.

      Michelle
      Signature
      "You can't market here. This is a marketing discussion forum!"
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[976206].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
        Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post

        I agree; people ARE idiots. It sounds horrible, but it's true.
        A little harsh, but I can understand your frustration, especially after working in customer service.

        I would go more along the lines of people are inherently lazy and look to do the least amount of work (including reading)
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[983498].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

          ----
          I'll tell you what. I'll even let you even have the option of taking a free trial of the Personal Instruction Program. And remember, it's optional

          You can remove it from your shoppingcart if you want, so you are not forced to take this bonus, but it's there if you want it.

          If you like the Personal Instruction Program, do nothing and you will be billed $29.99 per month starting after your free trial ends. You can cancel at any time.

          Remember, this is just an added bribe to get you to try the oil painting express package. It's there if you want some more lessons, for free...but you're under no obligation to take this free bonus.
          ----
          (Emphasis mine.)

          Item Order: Widget A with a 5 day trial to the widget membership program to be billed at $29.99 monthly if you do not cancel during the trial period.
          First off, there's a huge difference in your original text and the example you posted later.

          In the first, there are 7 instances of language that imply free, bonus, optional etc. There are 2 statements mixed in that detail the continuity.

          People may well be idiots. One of my old bosses used to say that no one ever went broke underestimating the general public. In this instance, though, the language may not have as clear as you thought it was.

          You know what you intended to say, so that's what you saw. On top of that, you probably saw that statement dozens of times, rather than once in the process of completing a different offer.

          I'm not saying you had anything but the best intentions, but I can see how someone might have missed it. And some people, especially the ones most likely to fall for something, have been scammed enough times and received lousy customer service so many times that there first reaction is to make accusations and threats. It's a defense mechanism, not a personal attack.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[983645].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            (Emphasis mine.)

            First off, there's a huge difference in your original text and the example you posted later.

            In the first, there are 7 instances of language that imply free, bonus, optional etc. There are 2 statements mixed in that detail the continuity.
            I should have included the second quote in my original example. For, this is the text that was listed in the persons shoppingcart when they checked out.

            Item Order: Widget A with a 5 day trial to the widget membership program to be billed at $29.99 monthly if you do not cancel during the trial period.

            It was another instance of trying to be as transparent as possible.



            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            (Emphasis mine.)

            You know what you intended to say, so that's what you saw. On top of that, you probably saw that statement dozens of times, rather than once in the process of completing a different offer.

            I'm not saying you had anything but the best intentions, but I can see how someone might have missed it. And some people, especially the ones most likely to fall for something, have been scammed enough times and received lousy customer service so many times that there first reaction is to make accusations and threats. It's a defense mechanism, not a personal attack.
            I can see what your saying. However it can be impossible to write something that everyone can claim to understand.

            Just yesterday, I was out having lunch in a diner. The waiter came by to fill up my water glass right in front of my eyes. I totally missed it and asked my wife "Did the waiter fill up my water glass?"

            Even though my head was looking forward, my brain did not notice him filling up the water glass.

            It was done right in front of me but if someone asked me if I needed more water, I would have said yes.

            And the waiter's action of filling up my glass is pretty self explanatory.

            Sometimes, people just miss things, don't read everything, don't pay attention while they are doing something, or just assume things and don't bother to read everything they should.

            I personally think the responsibility lies with the person ordering. In my example, if someone had to decide who was at fault for me not knowing my water glass had been filled - I think it is obviously my fault. But, someone could theoretically argue that the waiter could have done more such as announce to me "Sir, I am filling your water glass up now" in a loud voice and make sure I was paying attention to his action.

            One can always find fault with the merchant and say they could have even made it more obvious.

            However, like I stated in a message above...all that really doesn't matter for practical purposes. The advantage lies with the customer - at least for now as far as a payment processor or merchant account goes. And if that is the case, it seems to make sense to always make a continuity program a choice to opt-in or order separately.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[983877].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TheNightOwl
      Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post


      Although, it does seem somewhat disingenuous for the people who
      used to do it one way, talking down the way they did it for quite a while,
      which most likely led to big profits for some time.
      Couldn't agree more.

      Disingenuousness seems to be order of the day in this niche -- and, indeed, any other involving any kinds of sales and marketing.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[977557].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author AtomicFlipper
    WOW, a lot of talk about people being idiots!

    There is no such thing as an idiot, just uneducated, and that is the fault of the person conveying the message, just because you see it as easy to understand does not make it easy for others.

    If a message is not getting across to someone, then you need to change the way you write your message.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[983605].message }}

Trending Topics