Let's Screw Some Newbies Who Don't Know Any Better!

[Christian Chan]

Joining Cody Moya's list is probably the biggest mistake you ever done in your entire IM career. He gives you tons of useless PLR content. And you could never unsubscribe from his list.

Originally Posted by Powertreb

My advice to newbies is this:

• yada yada yada
• Join Cody Moya's list. For God's sake, don't actually buy anything from him. But I get TONS & TONS of PLR content and all kinds of bonuses from Cody Moya's list. He offers many, many products for download. It's free for the first month, but $97 each month thereafter.
• yada yada yada

[thinkrich]

Thanks Tim,

Thanks for having the coconuts to post this.

Truth is, it's been happening for years.

By the way, good choice of headline. It certainly got a few reactions.

A couple of points, if I may indulge:

1. Same crap, different package. Some of the "BRAND NEW" stuff is actually 5 years old, in a different wrapper.

2. Guru-bashing - am all for it (apologies to those who DO write their own material...you know who you are). Particularly when it wasnt even written by them. Trouble is that the person who did write it also comes in for a bagging.

3. PLR = Open slather. PLR ebooks, PLR article, PLR this...PLR that...
PLR = Print Lots (of) Rubbish! Then package it all up and turn around and sell it under a different label for 100x what it cost. Good marketing? NO, its greed!

4. Outsourcing. Very popular these days..until an issue arises, then you may be left on your own to deal with it. Get a lawyer - FAST!

5. Non-guru publications. Have the coconuts to market it yaself. If it's good enough, then you will get testimonials from happy customers.

On another note... I recently joined a "guru" site that promised heaps and delivered nothing!

Not one damn thing I could do with the site, unless I forked out $97.

All I got was an affiliate link to try to con others. Pass.

I'm over it.

[yomimedia]

I know some people who do these kind of business. another bad thing is an eBook can be rewritten several times so its like making a profit from the works of others.

[Steadyon]

Regarding selling information to people about how to make money online, I DO have a problem with people who do this, who haven't actually made any money online. Or they have only made some by telling others how to do it. I think this is objectionable.

[Rich Mann]

Originally Posted by Megas

Good post Tim.
The only thing I can think of is buy products with a money back guarantee and if you don't get the results promised, get your money back!

It's sad that this happens but a fact though.

Unfortunate as it is, a guarantee is only as good as the guarantor. I know many people see a 100% money back guarantee as some sort of testament to the quality of the product. But not only does it not ensure the quality of the product, there's no assurance that you will get your refund either.

[James12C]

Originally Posted by Tim Whiston

In retrospect maybe I should reconsider the term "newbie". It does sort of dehumanize that target group of people.

Food for future thought on my end I guess.

Fair point, Tim, and a great thread. Thanks.

[Powertreb]

I think you underestimate some of Cody's free stuff. I've gotten some useful software. I've also gotten plenty of ebooks that are useful to give away as signup bonuses. Common sense tells me what's useless and what's not. I also have over 20,000 PLR articles from him that I use for rewriting.

Not all his ebooks deal with IM. I've gotten plenty of decent ebooks about health & wellness and network marketing which I use as freebies on my sites.

I know his lists are unsubscribable. To each his own. When I feel I no longer want to receive his free offers, I just set his messages to get trashed automatically. No biggie for me.

Originally Posted by Christian Chan

Joining Cody Moya's list is probably the biggest mistake you ever done in your entire IM career. He gives you tons of useless PLR content. And you could never unsubscribe from his list.

[Fernando Veloso]

Guess this is usual in all markets. Don't you think? Even "health" gurus do the same, "Dating" gurus do it too... Heck, maybe everybody is doing it.

[Kay King]

I wonder if there's anything anyone can do about it.

You can take charge of your own buying decisions. You can stop believing every dream of easy or fast money "if you just use my system" that you read. How many newbies reading this thread quickly went to the one source Tim recommended to check it out?

You can't protect people from their own dreams of easy money, fast money, or quickly attaining "guru status" themselves. We all make some poor decisions but those who succeed take credit for their own mistakes and do better going forward.

There is no market online or offline with popular products where there are no knock offs or shabby products offered. Part of getting over "newbieness" is learning to recognize hype when you see it. A good percentage of those new to working online make the same mistakes - joining mlm's, signing up for freebies everywhere they find them, buying useless lists of email addresses, thinking moya and jerk are something new.

Some make those mistakes and then get on track and build for themselves - others never get it. That won't change.

kay

Originally Posted by Christie Love

Tim,

I'm sure this happens somewhere in the internet world, but please do not judge all writers.

Certainly not. I tried to be clear about this but i'm happy to revisit the point as many times as needed because it is an important one.

I'm foremost a writer myself though I rarely sell my services (tried it - hated it - now only for occasional high profile gigs)

I respect fellow writers and understand those who sell their services are putting food on the table. I further understand that a good writer when given appropriate material by a client can turn out superb authority material.

The targets of my rant are specific cases where no guidance is provided to writers and the resulting material which I have seen for myself is nothing close to authoritative content.

I hope this clears things up for you and other writers who are checking in.

Originally Posted by jjpmarketing

Of course this thread leads me to the big question...

I don't even know if anyone has asked it yet.

Tim...

When are you selling your coaching program or membership site? I am not asking this to be rude or flame you... but history has proven more times than not... that when someone gets on here with some rant about this or that... they are basically getting ready to launch a product or sell an ebook... or whatever the case may be.

I can see how this would be an effective way to set the stage for such a product, but to be honest I'm a little burned out on the idea of selling B2B stuff. I still have one IM blog and ezine and some collaborations going with a few high quality B2B vendors but my days of focusing heavily on IM product development are over. I'm primarily following my calling as a spiritual and personal development writer from here forward, and of course will continue to play with any niched ideas that strike my fancy.

Great question though. Thanks for bringing it up.

[immick]

Hey Tim,

Great discussion you have here. When I use PLR, I use it more as an outline and substantially rewrite it before I use it. Some PLR content is total crap and I cannot imagine anyone reputable simply publishing "as is". But I know they do. I recently bought something from a well-known person and it is was full of grammatical errors and clearly not written by someone familar with English language. It was almost as if they wrote in their native tongue and used bablefish to translate.

[joe.marsh]

Tim... Your so correct

What your saying is so correct... I know of a warrior here on the forum that ghostwrites for a famous warrior even if they know nothing about the topic. This is a scary thought.

The writer asked if they had information concerning the subject or an outline and the client said no just write about it. It all comes down to the writer doing great research and hopefully from the right locations.

It is a scary thing and does happen.

It is something that we would all be better off if it did not happen.

Joe

[multimastery]

Hey Tim Thanks for the post! Someone needed to address these issues. Anything labeled 'EXPERT' needs to be written by the expert themselves - or thoroughly researched by the writer they hire. And even then, the end result should be thoroughly reviewed by the "Expert" in order to insure accuracy. Otherwise, as you've stated -- It would be shady at best!

[tulsatech]

I agree. If I had a smiley icon clapping I'd put it here.

Originally Posted by thinkrich

On another note... I recently joined a "guru" site that promised heaps and delivered nothing!

Not one damn thing I could do with the site, unless I forked out $97.

All I got was an affiliate link to try to con others. Pass.

I'm over it.

I don't think you mean you're quitting the whole game of IM but this does bring to mind the fact that many people do walk away with a bitter taste in mouth after being sold crap. Another reason selling bogus authority info is detracting from the greater good.

Originally Posted by joe.marsh

The writer asked if they had information concerning the subject or an outline and the client said no just write about it. It all comes down to the writer doing great research and hopefully from the right locations.

It is a scary thing and does happen.

More confirmation. I really think the issue is rampant.

I believe it will pass as our species evolves and the Web becomes less of a shiny new toy. Bur I'd love for this to be sooner rather than later.

Originally Posted by Illumination

1. What is ok?

Ok, we know what is not ok. It's not ok to know nothing at all about a subject, then pass yourself off as an expert, get someone who knows nothing about the subject to help you write something which you claim is expert-advice.

But let's say, you put up a site about something. And you know nothing about the niche you are going into, but you're willing to learn. As the time goes by, you read and learn, and write. So I guess that it is ok, because you're not passing yourself off as an expert, and you are not charging any money... Right?

2. Is it ok to sell information products if you are not an expert?

Well, I guess you don't really have to be an expert in something to sell information about it. As long as you are selling good information, and you don't pass yourself off as an expert on a subject.

3. What is an expert?
How do you define the word expert? Is it a person who is at the top of their field? A person who know more information about the subject that the average person? Or a person who knows more about the subject than the average person in your neighbourhood? When can you label yourself as an expert?

I think you did a good job of answering your own questions but just to chime in with my opinion on these...

I don't believe you need to be an expert to sell products, even information. I've sold loads of cell phones online and I'm definitely no expert there - I just found a product I like/believe in and promoted the affiliate program.

Even info can be sold ethically by non-experts. My problem is when people who are positioned as experts are selling info that's not expertly developed.

And PLR can be used well. In fact we see this happen all over the traditional retail world; think vitamins and store brand cereal for instance. I love a good PLR product I can spin and resell but I want to be sure the final cut is quality and that I endorse any methods or insights within.

What is an expert? Great question with probably many answers.

I think there are many levels of expertise, and it can be said to be relative to the knowledge of your audience. For example if you're an orange belt in Karate-do with six months training experience you have some expertise to share with someone who is brand-spanking new to the whole process and can't hit the bag without hurting their wrist. (off the cuff example)

[joyce1022]

Thanks for getting this discussion going Tim. I agree with the others who have recommended joining the War Room. I have learned so much there, and you soon learn who really knows what they are talking about. Then, when they come out with a WSO, I have no fear in buying it, because I know I will find out something new.

[AffiliateMax]

Excellent thread. Along the same lines I would recommend this blog post:
Internet Marketer: Will You Sell Me Your Integrity? : Internet Law and Business Blog

As well as the Internet Marketing Sins pdf (free download):
Internet Marketing Sins: An Open Letter to All Internet Marketers