The Biggest Myth About The Warrior Forum

[Ron Douglas]

Someone mentioned in another post that you can learn everything you need to know to succeed online right here on the Warrior Forum.

I'd like to hear what others think about this.

Can you really learn everything you need to know by reading posts here and never buying any courses or specialized training?

Are there really no "secrets" that are worth paying for?

Here's my opinion:

I'm a big fan of this forum and I've learned some things here which have taken my business way past the low 6-figures I used to earn. So this is not a knock on the forum.

That being said, the real learning comes from experience. You can read every post in this vast database, and still not make money online. Trial and error is the real guru.

The most that information can do for you is cut down your learning curve and give you a system to follow. Or it can just lead to information overload, mistrust of the people who claim to be making money, and lots of wasted time.

The one thing that is not free here or anywhere else is hands on coaching which requires you to take action to complete. This can help you dramatically.

Once you start taking action, you'll see that it's easy to earn $500 a month but more difficult to earn $5,000+. Unless you have a fantastic idea and some high-powered contacts, you may never make it by just sitting at a computer doing everything yourself.

To make a living online, you have to learn how to manage projects, people, and ROI. And you can't be afraid to invest in your own business. Inexperienced marketers always look at the cost of a product or service, while experienced marketers focus on the quality and the longer term return they will likely get.

These are things you will only learn from experience. And experience doesn't magically come to you overnight.

Thoughts?

[Doug McIsaac]

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

That being said, the real learning comes from experience. You can read every post in this vast database, and still not make money online. Trial and error is the real guru.

The most that information can do for you is cut down your learning curve and give you a system to follow. Or it can just lead to information overload, mistrust of the people who claim to be making money, and lots of wasted time.

The one thing that is not free here or anywhere else is hands on coaching which requires you to take action to complete. This can help you dramatically.

Once you start taking action, you'll see that it's easy to earn $500 a month but more difficult to earn $5,000+. Unless you have a fantastic idea and some high-powered contacts, you may never make it by just sitting at a computer doing everything yourself.

To make a living online, you have to learn how to manage projects, people, and ROI. And you can't be afraid to invest in your own business. Inexperienced marketers always look at the cost of a product or service, while experienced marketers focus on the quality and the longer term return they will likely get.

These are things you will only learn from experience. And experience doesn't magically come to you overnight.

Thoughts?

I couldn't agree with you more Ron, no forum, book, seminar or DVD has ever made anyone any money except for the people who own and sell the forums, books, seminars and DVDs. The people who take action, pay attention to what works for them and make adjustments are the ones who truly make it.

Doug

[Andyhenry]

Hi Ron,

You can defininitely be successful without buying any information products - especially IM ones, as most of them contain very basic marketing and business info at best.

The things that make you successful are not the things other people can give you.

Persistence, action, a purpose - these are the things that make the difference.

Whether you do that by selling stuff on ebay, running memberships, selling software, or whatever - the approach and mindset are what will make the difference ultimately.

It's as easy to earn $5k a month as it is to make $500 - the problem most people have is that they have such low expectations for their results that they choose models that live up to those expectations.

If you want to earn a million dollars a year, would you really start out with article marketing or adsense sites?

You can make money with almost every model - but some people are so desperate to earn 'anything' or 'something' that they'll listen to any advice and try anything - which results in 'some' results rather than something with the potential to get the results they truely want.

This forum and the information you have access to is more than enough for most people to have what they need information-wise.

Andy

[Nathan Hangen]

I agree with you. It wasn't until I started investing in my business and stopped worrying about wasting money that I started making money and figuring this IM thing out. I don't know if it was a paradigm shift or if the courses opened my eyes, but there's something to be said about investing in your own business.

[artwebster]

Ron,

What a fallacious post.

Yes- You can learn everything you need to know by searching through these forums. That is a simple fact.

Yes - You do need to take action but one has nothing to do with the other although you try to make it sound like an 'either or' proposition.

Learning all you need to know is necessary before you can take effective action but learning all you need to know does not imply that you WILL take action - it only implies that if you do, you will have a good idea of what you are up to.

[Kenneth L]

Truthfully no-one should buy ANYTHING until they first...

Read ALL John Carlton's, Gary Halbert's, Gary Bencivenga's, Clayton Makepeace's, Ted Nicholas's, Bob Bly's free stuff and get a really good understanding of 'salesmanship in print'.

Then investing in a couple of course and software programs would be a good idea like Perry Marshall's Adwords Course and Aweber/Getresponse etc to get specific information and the tools necessary to implement the strategies which work.

After you've learned marketing and copywriting you should be making money and CAN invest in subsequent courses.

I DO agree entirely that most of the marketing stuff being sold in this niche is very poor and everyone is far better learning from the 'old school' guys almost every time.

Kenneth

[Ron Douglas]

Originally Posted by artwebster

Ron,

What a fallacious post.

Yes- You can learn everything you need to know by searching through these forums. That is a simple fact.

Yes - You do need to take action but one has nothing to do with the other although you try to make it sound like an 'either or' proposition.

Learning all you need to know is necessary before you can take effective action but learning all you need to know does not imply that you WILL take action - it only implies that if you do, you will have a good idea of what you are up to.

I respectfully disagree Art. You can't learn everything you need to know until you actually try things yourself and gain experience. As an experienced guy yourself, I'd think you'd agree that many things you will only learn from experience.

Which would you choose to run your business - an MBA student with no practical experience or a college grad with years of industry experience?

[Kenneth L]

Originally Posted by artwebster

Ron,

What a fallacious post.

Yes- You can learn everything you need to know by searching through these forums. That is a simple fact.

Yes - You do need to take action but one has nothing to do with the other although you try to make it sound like an 'either or' proposition.

Learning all you need to know is necessary before you can take effective action but learning all you need to know does not imply that you WILL take action - it only implies that if you do, you will have a good idea of what you are up to.

Action isn't all it's cracked up to be by some people on this Forum.

Once upon a time Tony Robbins said "Take MASSIVE Action" and everyone takes it as gospel because he said it. Like everything else the guy says. Woo Hoo!

Doing the right things is the secret.

Picking one hot passionate underserved market and marketing effectively using scalable strategies like PPC and an Affiliate Program will do more for you than taking LOTS of action doing the wrong things.

Knowledge is power. Yes, you've got to act on it. But you can't act on the right thing until you know what the right thing is. You either find it out by trial and error or expedite it by getting proper training.

That's why it CAN be so powerful paying for information.

Kenneth

[Trent Brownrigg]

I think it takes a combination of things. However, you can learn MOST of what you need to make a lot of money online right here on this forum, for free.

Actually I have spent a ton of money on ebooks, courses, videos, and everything else over the years... But almost everything that has truly helped me succeed online was free information I got from forums, blogs, and mentors. Go figure!

[ShayRockhold]

There is enough info on this forum to help newbies get started without buying anything else. There are certain threads that have more info than some WSOs.

That being said, I think the best thing this forum offers is it helps the newbie get enough information to focus. They are read enough to see a method that appeals to them. Then they can get more specialized info about that particular method.

The alternative is for a newbie to buy a haphazard array of materials and get overwhelmed.

As someone grows and learns, they can branch out and develop different methods.

[ShayRockhold]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

It's as easy to earn $5k a month as it is to make $500 - the problem most people have is that they have such low expectations for their results that they choose models that live up to those expectations.

If you want to earn a million dollars a year, would you really start out with article marketing or adsense sites?

Andy

Andy, can you elaborate on this?

If someone wants to shift from the $1000-3000 a month range to the seven-figure range, what is your advice?

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by ShayRockhold

Andy, can you elaborate on this?

If someone wants to shift from the $1000-3000 a month range to the seven-figure range, what is your advice?

I don't want to hijack this thread. The answer is similar to my previous comment about the model you're working. If you choose a model that at best can only get you to a few grand a month, expecting more is unrealistic.

Most IMers don't take a realistic look at what they can achieve with the model they're working and they just do things that make 'something' and because they hear that others make a lot of money, they think that doing more of the same is all they need to do, but sometimes they're working models that just don't have the potential to get the results they want and need to either adapt it to expand its potential or realise this and supplement it with addition projects that in combination can get them there.

Unfortunately when most IMers realise their current efforts aren't going to get them there, they either ditch the model to start over again with a different one (thus negating all their previous efforts) or they just get disillusioned with IM and stop trying as hard (obvious what effect that will have).

To make more money you just need to be working a model that can scale and leverage many integration points with other revenue streams and potentially result in a long customer lifetime and value rather than just going for one after the other one-time sales and trying to keep the plate spinning - building on what you have, leverage and scalability are what make all the difference if you're already making a few hundred bucks regularly and want to ramp it up.

Andy

[jasonl70]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

It's as easy to earn $5k a month as it is to make $500 - the problem most people have is that they have such low expectations for their results that they choose models that live up to those expectations.

If you want to earn a million dollars a year, would you really start out with article marketing or adsense sites?

Andy, you really nailed it there!

I got into affiliate marketing 1 year ago fom this month. I think I made around $800 that first month.

And it wasn't by the rage at that time: bum marketing.

I looked at what the really heavy hitters were doing at that time.. and it was squeeze pages.

ie, building a list.

Think about this: when there's a product launch, are there any threads here complaining about all the articles that Frank Kern or Jeff Walker and the others are flooding the article directories with?? are they spammng craigslist,etc ??? are they forum spamming??

lol..nope. everyone complains about getting swamped with emails

<light bulb>

So I simply followed in their foot steps and started building lists.

I set everything up in 1 night. aweber, squeeze page, and yes - ppc.

The next morning, I believe I had spent $20 on adwords, had around 20 opt-ins, and $35 in sales. Heck - at the time I was only hoping to break even, so my list building would be free

Here's the thing - I had no desire to chase after pennies.. I worked as an IT consultant and made $75-100 per hour sub contracting under companies like IBM.

Whatever I did in IM, it had to be worth my time, and it couldn't simply be replacing my hours for dollars - otherwise I could just work an extra hour a day at my J.O.B.

I had higher expectations, higher goals, and hence pursued avenues that where in line with this.

[A8ch]

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

Someone mentioned in another post that you can learn everything you need to know to succeed online right here on the Warrior Forum.

I'd like to hear what others think about this.

Can you really learn everything you need to know by reading posts here and never buying any courses or specialized training?

Are there really no "secrets" that are worth paying for?

Thoughts?

There is probably sufficient useful information floating around this forum to equip someone for online success. The problem is, it's disjointed, jumbled and scattered all over the place, like pieces of a puzzle strewn on a table.

As a result, the complete novice who is attempting to make any sense of it all would more than likely give up prematurely out of frustration, for a variety of reasons:

1. she would have no clue about what the puzzle picture is supposed to look like.
2. there'd be no frame of reference against which to guage the accuracy of the disparate bits of information.
3. she wouldn't be able to determine how current or effective that information is.
4. she wouldn't necessarily know where one piece of information belongs in relation to other pieces.

And that's just for openers.

There is also a significant difference between theoretical knowledge and experiential knowledge. Having one without the other is like trying to clap with one hand. Plus the true benefit of acquiring knowledge is to apply it, otherwise what's the point?

And as far as "secrets" go, they are none! To the recipient it's simply "new" information that (hopefully) enhances what they've already got in their knowledge base. Quite often it's nothing more than a different way to perceive something they may have known all along. There's nothing wrong with paying for those "secrets" if they will fast track you to success.

Ebooks, courses and other teaching/learning tools are designed to accomodate the learning process by focusing on one discipline or system and providing a perspective of where it belongs in this fantastic puzzle. It decreases the learning curve.

The most important factor in all this is the person who is attempting to succeed online by reading posts in the Warrior Forum exclusively. Their passion, skills, ability, discipline, persistence, commitment, drive and all the qualities that support success have to be considered.

To my way of thinking, that is the wildcard element.

Hermas

[nick1123]

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

Are there really no "secrets" that are worth paying for?

I think that this a time vs money issue. If you have lots of money and no time then there are things that are worth paying for.

[Kenneth L]

Originally Posted by jasonl70

Andy, you really nailed it there!

I got into affiliate marketing 1 year ago fom this month. I think I made around $800 that first month.

And it wasn't by the rage at that time: bum marketing.

I looked at what the really heavy hitters were doing at that time.. and it was squeeze pages.

ie, building a list.

Think about this: when there's a product launch, are there any threads here complaining about all the articles that Frank Kern or Jeff Walker and the others are flooding the article directories with?? are they spammng craigslist,etc ??? are they forum spamming??

lol..nope. everyone complains about getting swamped with emails

<light bulb>

So I simply followed in their foot steps and started building lists.

I set everything up in 1 night. aweber, squeeze page, and yes - ppc.

The next morning, I believe I had spent $20 on adwords, had around 20 opt-ins, and $35 in sales. Heck - at the time I was only hoping to break even, so my list building would be free

Here's the thing - I had no desire to chase after pennies.. I worked as an IT consultant and made $75-100 per hour sub contracting under companies like IBM.

Whatever I did in IM, it had to be worth my time, and it couldn't simply be replacing my hours for dollars - otherwise I could just work an extra hour a day at my J.O.B.

I had higher expectations, higher goals, and hence pursued avenues that where in line with this.

This should be mandatory reading for all Internet Marketers.

Cheers,
Kenneth

[jan roos]

I think by just reading the Cash Cow Thread By David Preston Is more than enough to get anybody making serious cash online. Yes It is online marketing doesnt matter which way you look at it.

Offline gold aside, Yes I think between the free info on here, the war room and the WSO section, there is more tha enough info for anybody to ake money online. If you want to buy products, buy the products of successfull people on here like , Steven Wags and the likes.

Cheers

[Ron Douglas]

Originally Posted by jan roos

I think by just reading the Cash Cow Thread By David Preston Is more than enough to get anybody making serious cash online. Yes It is online marketing doesnt matter which way you look at it.

Offline gold aside, Yes I think between the free info on here, the war room and the WSO section, there is more tha enough info for anybody to ake money online. If you want to buy products, buy the products of successfull people on here like , Steven Wags and the likes.

Cheers

So you would tell a newbie to read the Cash Cow, the War Room, a bunch of WSOs, and buy Steven's products and that's enough for them to be making serious cash online? I have to disagree with you. I'm willing to bet that there are people on the forum who have done just that and are not making any money.

[Daniel Molano]

I had to vote "No".

Yes, the warrior forum is an extremely valuable resource but there is also loads of misleading information.

With that being said, do you really think people (including myself) share every single one of their most valuable secrets and also give away for free all their achievements which they had to learn the hard way through trial and error?

Don't get me wrong here, I'm a big fan of sharing value and giving quality back to the community, but I'm not going to post for free my entire business model, which would probably take about 500 pages if I were to explain it clearly.

I would much rather sell it for $2,000 a piece, considering the time and effort it would take me to put in paper so that everyone understands it, and also the thousands of dollars I spent on testing, tracking, failing, improving, tweaking etc...

I have to agree with Ron on this one, there is no better mentor than trial and error.

You could have Warren Buffet coaching you 24/7, but if you don't take action on it and also FAIL while you are at it, you will never gain the experience on how to improve and do things right in the first place.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Fascinating topic.

Here's my 2 cents on it with a disclaimer. It is only my opinion based on my
own personal experience.

I started out trying to make money online because I had no choice. I lost
my job and was too old to get another one, not when kids would do what I
was doing for half the money.

So I turned to the Internet.

I did so knowing nothing.

When I say nothing, I mean literally nothing. I will bet every dime in my
bank account that I knew less than every person on this forum right now.

I remember going to the search engines and looking up "make money from
home." That is how I started. I didn't know from lists or pay per click or
digital products or anything. I just wanted to make money from home. Hell,
I didn't even know that the Warrior Forum existed. Maybe if I had, things
might have been different. I honestly don't know.

As a result, my searches led me to things like...

paid to read emails
ramdomizers
mlm schemes
paid to post ads
paid to take surveys

The list of crap went on forever. But at the time, I had no idea it was crap.

Each "scheme" said it was an easy way to make tons of money, or at least
a full time income from home.

I'm sure this garbage still exists.

Well, after 5 months of doing all this crap, I made $28.

Had I not accidentally stumbled onto a few people who took enough pity
on me to help me personally, I would still be making $28 every 5 months
or given up by now.

Gradually, taking the things that they taught me about ad writing, article
writing, list building and so on, I started to build a business model that at
least had some chance of success. No, it wasn't going to make me a 7
figure income, and I pretty much could see that going in as I couldn't see
the real growth potential if I was going to do all these "little things." But I
did see how it would at least make me $50,000 a year if I worked real
hard.

Well, it took me about 4 years to make that $50,000 a year level. And then
I reached the next level by simply creating more products, hitting more
niches and putting in more hours.

Yes, I worked like a mule, but it was all I know.

Andy, I understand what you're saying in your post about scalability and
all that stuff, but here is the problem.

I know I'm not a genius but I'm not an idiot either. You're talking about
terms and business models in your post that the average person isn't
going to understand.

So where does he go to learn about a business model that can be scaled
to make 7 figures. He's not going to learn that from the Warrior Forum. I'm
not really sure where he'd learn it from, but certainly it's not going to come
from reading a bunch of posts.

You're talking about concepts that I'd argue you'd need to at least go to
a certified school to learn properly. We're not talking about running a fruit
stand here. We're talking about running a 7 figure business.

From forum posts?

From free info scattered over the Internet?

I seriously doubt that.

You need some structure. You need somebody to show you how to put
it all together, unless you really are so bright that you can figure it out
on your own.

Now that I've reached 6 figures (finally) I have a pretty decent idea of
what it will take to reach 7. There isn't just one way to do it, but regardless
of what path I were to choose, I know it would involve a boat load of
outsourcing in website setup, salescopy writing, graphic design, content
creation and so on, if I want to get enough sites up in enough niches
(after doing the research on which niches would give me the most chance
of success) to be able to reach that 7 figure mark.

It's simply a numbers game of duplicating whatever you're doing now that
is successful, X number of times over.

How many people have the bucks to do that?

How many people have the business savvy to watch over all those
outsourced outlets to make sure they all deliver on time and what's needed?

How many people have the patience to oversee an operation like that or
the nerves to deal with all the potential problems that can pop up, such
as hacked sites, customer complaints, affiliate complaints and so on?

I know enough to know that the last thing, the very last thing I EVER want
to do is be responsible for a 7 figure a year business.

I can just about handle what I'm doing now.

And no, it's not about the work. I know that I'll actually be doing less work
with all the outsourcing I'd be doing. I just don't need the aggravation of
having to look over all these people.

Hire somebody to do that?

Sure, I could do that. But then it has to be somebody I know I can trust
who isn't going to screw me behind my back...like that doesn't happen in
everyday life.

Point is this...some people are content with their business model as it is.

But...some people just don't know how to get to the next level. They
don't have the smarts and reading forum posts or for that matter buying
info products isn't going to give them the smarts.

Unless you truly are self motivated AND can figure things out on your own
(the latter is what I couldn't do) then you need somebody to take you
by the hand, sit you down and tell you exactly what you need to do.

In my opinion, there is no way around that.

At least there wasn't for me.

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

I had to vote "No".

do you really think people (including myself) share every single one of their most valuable secrets and also give away for free all their achievements which they had to learn the hard way through trial and error?

I would much rather sell it for $2,000 a piece, considering the time and effort it would take me to put in paper so that everyone understands, and also the thousands of dollars I spent on testing, tracking, failing, improving, tweaking etc...

I have to agree with Ron on this one, there is no better mentor than trial and error.

Not many - but YES, there are some.

Most people would rather sell it, but that doesn't mean everyone feels the same.

Also - there seems to be some thinking that learning from the information means you're not taking any action and learning by trial and error - Obviously if that was the case you're going to need more than any amount or quality of information alone would give you.

The action you take is the ONLY component you really have complete control over and is as important as anything, but taking action alone will usually not be enough unless you've educated yourself about what your intended plan will be and how realistic it is for getting you the results you want.

Andy

[jan roos]

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

So you would tell a newbie to read the Cash Cow, the War Room, a bunch of WSOs, and buy Steven's products and that's enough for them to be making serious cash online? I have to disagree with you. I'm willing to bet that there are people on the forum who have done just that and are not making any money.

As long as the newbie don't let him self be a victim of info overload, he'll have more than enough info to make money online. I actually think that there is too much info on this forum that can easily pull a person in different directions. Pick a method, study it and then apply what you learn consistently then the money will come. We all know that. If that method don't work for you, pick another one and do the same untill you find what works for you.

It's taking action as others has said that will decide if you make money or not. And yes it takes a lot of trial and error but thats what gives you experience.

The question was if there is enough info on this forum to make serious cash online and I say 100% yes.

Cheers

[Chris W. Sutton]

There are no secrets BUT there ARE things you may not have learned yet.

Since internet technology is ever-evolving, you will never learn everything you should know but the WF does have the info that will enable anyone to make a living online.

Really, there are only two things that are stopping people from taking this info and becoming successful... doubt and a lack of action!

A lot of people doubt that the methods work so they only give a half-hearted attempt to make something work. You have to approach this as a business and work at it. You can't just make a stab at it and then go on to something else.

Without a doubt, inconsistency and a lack of action are two of the biggest hurdles to overcome. A lot of people are information junkies and they learn a lot but they don't apply it. Those that do apply it are inconsistent and abandon what they are doing when the next greatest money-maker comes down the pike.

There are a lot of threads on ways to make money online. Find one that you want to implement. Once you have it implemented, stick with it and work it like you would any business. Given time and effort, it will start making money. Once you have it growing, build another one in another niche... then build another one in another niche... then build another one in another niche, etc.

[Ron Douglas]

Originally Posted by jan roos

As long as the newbie don't let him self be a victim of info overload, he'll have more than enough info to make money online. I actually think that there is too much info on this forum that can easily pull a person in different directions. Pick a method, study it and then apply what you learn consistently then the money will come. We all know that. If that method don't work for you, pick another one and do the same untill you find what works for you.

It's taking action as others has said that will decide if you make money or not. And yes it takes a lot of trial and error but thats what gives you experience.

The question was if there is enough info on this forum to make serious cash online and I say 100% yes.

Cheers

Good point. As in my original post, I'd still argue that it's the experience gained from taking action on that information that will be the real lesson learned. The information alone won't do it.

[Matt Maiden]

Originally Posted by Kenneth Rearden

Action isn't all it's cracked up to be...

The biggest problem that I see with a lot of people nowadays not just the ones here trying to make money is that they confuse activity with accomplishment.

I know people that are almost proud of the fact that they are stressed most of the day from all of the multi-tasking that they are involved with and when I ask them how much they have finished it's next to nothing.

Running around in circles talking on two iPhones, texting while in line, emailing all night, reading, writing...does not mean a damn thing if you don't get something finished.

You have to finish at least one thing before you can build on it.

I know people who have been working on their 25 page ebook for 2 years. I'm not exaggerating either.

Some folks use the phrase "I'm a perfectionist" as an excuse to avoid having their projects finished out of fear of being critiqued and judged.

If that's your problem then that should be your first project. Fix that then move on to that ebook. Do something.

Quit running around looking busy and complaining that this stuff doesn't work.

End of rant.

Matt

[jan roos]

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

Good point. As in my original post, I'd still argue that it's the experience gained from taking action on that information that will be the real lesson learned. The information alone won't do it.

Yes, we are on the same page. Info alone won't do it. But there is more than enough info on this forum to make a success of yourself online that's for sure.

Also someone else made a good point about taking the coaching route. That would definitely put anyone on the fast track to success but for those that don't have a couple of grand to drop on solid coaching I say there is no better place than this forum.

I owe everything to this forum and all of you guys.

Cheers

[Daniel Molano]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Not many - but YES, there are some.

Most people would rather sell it, but that doesn't mean everyone feels the same.

Also - there seems to be some thinking that learning from the information means you're not taking any action and learning by trial and error - Obviously if that was the case you're going to need more than any amount or quality of information alone would give you.

The action you take is the ONLY component you really have complete control over and is as important as anything, but taking action alone will usually not be enough unless you've educated yourself about what your intended plan will be and how realistic it is for getting you the results you want.

Andy

I agree, of course you need to know what you are doing in order to take action, otherwise it's just a waste of time.

The problem is when people take action on misleading education, which is often present in free sources due to the massive amount of information available.

If you are someone learning, you can take action on 10,000 free sources and quite possibly prove them all to be wrong, resulting in a huge waste of time and effort.

Whereas if I pay $2,000 for 1 respected marketer's product, the education provided is more likely (not necessarily) to be correct.

Not to mention that people are also more likely to take action on something that they payed $2,000 for than something they got for free, therefore you are actually helping more by providing quality with that price than to provide it for free (which most people will just ignore no matter how good it is).

The highest value is accomplished when people pay you a large amount of money and know they got what they payed for, not when they think "Oh look, another great freebie".

[jasonl70]

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

Not to mention that people are also more likely to take action on something that they payed $2,000 for than something they got for free,

I think you have a very good point there.. it just seems to be human nature.

[JohnMcCabe]

Ron, I had to vote "No" as well...

You almost nailed it when you said

That being said, the real learning comes from experience. You can read every post in this vast database, and still not make money online. Trial and error is the real guru.

Learning from trial and error is the real guru.

Until you pick something and try it, you simply don't know what you don't know.

Take article marketing...

You read a thread about making money by writing and posting articles, and you write and post some articles. Someone in the thread said something about checking your stats.

You find out that a lot of people are reading your article, but no one is clicking through your link.

Now you know you need to learn about getting readers to click your links. You search the forum, and find some good threads on that specific problem. You take what you read, and rewrite your resource boxes. You write and post more articles.

Checking your stats, you see that people are starting to click through...

Had you spent all your time scanning the forum, learning all there was to know about article marketing, you'd still be reading. You wouldn't have any articles posted. You wouldn't know how to write a resource box that doesn't work, or one that does. You would not know what you didn't know, so you wouldn't know where to start - or stop.

Of course there are resources worth paying for. Those resources either shorten of flatten the learning curve for something specific you want to accomplish. Buying things that pile one learning curve on top of another is counter productive.

[admin]

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

So you would tell a newbie to read the Cash Cow, the War Room, a bunch of WSOs, and buy Steven's products and that's enough for them to be making serious cash online? I have to disagree with you. I'm willing to bet that there are people on the forum who have done just that and are not making any money.

Hmm...I would disagree with that completely. Simply because you are assuming all 'newbies' are the same.

There are people online who have learned a lot less than what is contained in what you mentioned and are now millionaires.

The fact is, this whole thread misses the mark because of the wild variations in people, their natural abilities and how they take action.

It's really not a matter of what they learn and there are countless cases throughout history to prove this beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Allen

[Folusho Orokunle]

I agree with Ron,

The warrior forum is like a free college education. But just like when I got out of college, the real experience and education comes from "working" or taking action.

A good example is:
I've read on this forum and in many marketing books that a good or average conversion rate of a sales letter is 1%.

The problem is that this 1% is only an average. Once you set up a site with a sales letter, you'll see that sometimes your website will convert at 3% and sometime it'll convert at 0%.

So the only way you're going to see a real average is if you keep advertising your site and tweaking your sales letter.

Advertising, writing, and tweaking are all actions.

And yes, most of the people that are really successful have failed the most, that's why they're successful.

Most people that aren't making money just haven't failed enough yet, because failing causes us to learn from the "failed actions" that we have taken.

But just like the saying goes, "only a fool does the same thing over and over expecting a different result".

[pluto1]

Agreed with Ron. I have been a silent reader on this forum for a while, reading all the suggestions, questions and answers from the members. However, if the learnt knowledge is not implemented anywhere to good use, it is useless. Just like real college education. Attending all the classes won't matter if you can't use the knowledge in your job or business.

[LB]

There is a vast wealth of information in this forum, and certainly people have become wildly successful who don't even know a fraction of it.

The problem is separating the wheat from the chaff. If you've never had success then there's no way to tell what is true is what is not. The majority of posts here are opinion or at least the view from one angle of success.

The more success I've had, the more I can instantly recognize the value to be found here. When I was a struggling beginner I couldn't tell you what was real and what was theory or opinion. That is the problem.

Everything you need to build a house is inside Home Depot. But you still have to know how to build a house.

[Hesaidblissfully]

As a personal preference, I prefer buying a product that comprehensively outlines a process or strategy compared to hunting down individual threads and learning piecemeal what to do. I use forums mostly to "fill in the blanks" of whatever I can't find elsewhere or to ask specific questions.

Someone mentioned earlier that you need to know what to do before you take action, which is true. I'd add that you don't need to know anymore than is absolutely necessary in order to make money. A lot of people get stuck in the passive learning stage a lot longer than they should.

[Mark Riddle]

It could be that Ron isn't familiar with enough (or maybe any) people who DID get their launch from the warrior forum.

I have seen them come in, and "want to know how do you upload a domain name to your email", and not much later give focused accurate answers about the information that they are using to bring income to their house hold.

Not everyone here wants to go full time, there are plenty of people here that have a nice part time spare cash business, and that is all they are looking for.

Not only can it be done, it has already happened and continues to happen with enough frequency that as you read the threads, you can watch people grow and develop, from reading the warrior forum.

I recommend anyone in doubt, to take a look at some of the warrior forum promotional videos that were created last year, and see that several entries talked about the warrior forum being not only the source of their information, but also an encouragement when the surroundings were less that optimist about this internet marketing "scam stuff".

For me the problem with labeling building success through the warrior forum a myth, is that it ties into the fears of the uninformed.

Myths are things that will never happen because they are not true,

Remember the Myth of being able to run a 4 minute mile?
Remember the Myth of putting a Man on the Moon?
Remember the Myth of an African American becoming President of the USA?


Mark

[Magic Johnson]

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

Which would you choose to run your business - an MBA student with no practical experience or a college grad with years of industry experience?

Don't really mean either's more or less successful, does it?

Someone with the newest freshest knowledge and hunger may as well slice and dice a low preformer college grad.

See what I mean?

Johan "Magic Johnson"

[oneempowered]

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

So you would tell a newbie to read the Cash Cow, the War Room, a bunch of WSOs, and buy Steven's products and that's enough for them to be making serious cash online? I have to disagree with you. I'm willing to bet that there are people on the forum who have done just that and are not making any money.

That has nothing to do with the question you asked us. You didn't ask us what advice we would give to a newbie.

You didn't ask us if merely learning strategies from the WF (without applying them) was enough to make money. You also didn't ask if that was the best game plan, but rather, if it was possible.

You asked, "Can you learn everything you need to know to succeed online by reading posts on the Warrior Forum?" The answer is "Absolutely."

The right person could make money just by applying the info in this thread alone!

It depends on the person.

• Will everyone learn what they need to know? NO. Nearly any mentally healthy person COULD, but most WON'T.

• Will everyone correctly apply what they learn here? Of course not.

• Will they need to take action to succeed? Yes, of course.

• Will they need to pay attention to the results of their actions and learn from their experiences along the way? YES, of course! But, they learned that here at the WF too. You even reminded them in your post above.

• Are there "secrets" that are worth paying for? Yes. But, we're talking about whether it CAN be done without paying for them. It's also true that many so-called "secrets" are not worth paying for and a lot of the worthwhile "secrets" can be learned for free right here at the WF.

So, CAN THEY? Yes!

WILL THEY? Thats up to them.

Again, it depends on the person.


Though your points are valid, you are confusing taking action and learning from your experience with gaining the necessary knowledge to begin with.

Yes, you have to take action. We even learned from several on this thread that you should take "correct action." We could infer that taking "massive correct action" would be even better.

Yes, we should learn from our experience along the way, but everyone who takes action will learn things from their experience (provided they possess some cognitive aptitude and they are awake while taking action).


So, YES, it is POSSIBLE to learn enough here at the WF to succeed. It's also possible to learn TOO MUCH here, leading to information overload, spreading yourself too thin, or taking INCORRECT action.

[Popstar]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

If you choose a model that at best can only get you to a few grand a month, expecting more is unrealistic.

To make more money you just need to be working a model that can scale and leverage many integration points with other revenue streams and potentially result in a long customer lifetime and value rather than just going for one after the other one-time sales and trying to keep the plate spinning - building on what you have, leverage and scalability are what make all the difference if you're already making a few hundred bucks regularly and want to ramp it up.

Andy

In my opinion, this is really the way to scale a business and why I disagree so strongly with what Steven said...

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

So where does he go to learn about a business model that can be scaled
to make 7 figures. He's not going to learn that from the Warrior Forum. I'm
not really sure where he'd learn it from, but certainly it's not going to come from reading a bunch of posts.

Now that I've reached 6 figures (finally) I have a pretty decent idea of
what it will take to reach 7. There isn't just one way to do it, but regardless of what path I were to choose, I know it would involve a boat load of outsourcing in website setup, salescopy writing, graphic design, content creation and so on, if I want to get enough sites up in enough niches (after doing the research on which niches would give me the most chance of success) to be able to reach that 7 figure mark.

It's simply a numbers game of duplicating whatever you're doing now that is successful, X number of times over.

How many people have the bucks to do that?

How many people have the business savvy to watch over all those
outsourced outlets to make sure they all deliver on time and what's needed?

How many people have the patience to oversee an operation like that or
the nerves to deal with all the potential problems that can pop up, such
as hacked sites, customer complaints, affiliate complaints and so on?

I know enough to know that the last thing, the very last thing I EVER want to do is be responsible for a 7 figure a year business.

I can just about handle what I'm doing now.

And no, it's not about the work. I know that I'll actually be doing less work
with all the outsourcing I'd be doing. I just don't need the aggravation of
having to look over all these people.

While I have the utmost respect for you, Steven, this is exactly the type of model that puts a cap on most people's income. If that's what you want, that's okay. But it doesn't have to be a matter of having lots of sites in lots of niches...

... as Andy said, you find a niche that lends itself to a continuing backend with a high customer lifetime value. So before you take massive action, take a step back and think about your strategy.

Does the market you're choosing lend itself to a one-time sale or multiple sales? If it's only one-time, then choose another market.

Do your prospects have money or are they scraping for every dollar? It's a heck of a lot easier to make big money if you're selling to well-heeled customers.

Do you have to sell your prospects on the need for your solution or are they already presold when you find them? What I mean by that is... it's better to go into a market where people are actively looking for a solution to a problem and you just have to convince them that you're the person to provide it.

Finally... and to me, this can make the difference between success and failure. Are you trying to make potential customers come to you (through article marketing, blogging, or whatever) or are you making the effort to find out where a critical mass of your customers already hangs out?

Some of the best places to find your customers are the popular websites or other business establishments where they're already buying a complementary product. Then strike a deal with the website owner or even just advertise there.

There are a lot of ways to do it other than the traditional jv.

The point is to make your action count instead of wasting time on activities that bring you little to no money. I believe you should focus on a business that can scale easily instead of scattering your efforts across a bunch of different niches.

In my opinion, most of any marketer's success is determined before he or she ever enters the marketplace.

Debbie

[vvv12]

Andyhenry,

Yes, very true. There is probably enough information that some people would be able to grab some ideas, create new products, etc, while other people would be reading and wondering whether the methods would work and buy additional products and learning more before taking any action.

Veronica

[Sonni]

From a newbie perspective yes all the info is here, but how does one put it together? So that it makes sense and makes money. All the techie part is way over my head and I need step by step guidance or I'm lost. I'm better off than I was in the very beginning and I learn a lot here. However, I find myself saying " I wonder how you do that". And I say it a lot. Sometimes it makes sense and other times it doesn't.
Sonni

[shibbeymon]

I voted yes. What I've done is a perfect example of what a newbie goes through just from learning IM on the WF. If s/he applies action to what they learn!

A friend of mine was always talking at work about IM and how he was trying article marketing and PPC advertising (not making too much money, just a little bit here and there) and how he hung out here all the time and his family wasn't too supportive of him.

He and I always talked about it when we saw each other and last summer I joined the WF and bought my own domain, started article marketing (I was determined to not spend much to get started) and managed to make $10 in adsense from August 08 to January 09. Not a great start and I was an extreme victim of information overload. I took a month off due to family issues and decided to focus my efforts on affiliate marketing in February of this year. After some trial and error and learning ALOT here (Thanks Shannon for the resouce box idea!) I've made over $200 in sales in the last week and a half on clickbank. Now that money is going to be used to outsource things I'm not good at yet (keyword research, get MORE articles, etc) and make more money.

Not alot of money yet but I'm excited and I KNOW I can do this, thanks to the WF.

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by Sonni

From a newbie perspective yes all the info is here, but how does one put it together? So that it makes sense and makes money. All the techie part is way over my head and I need step by step guidance or I'm lost. I'm better off than I was in the very beginning and I learn a lot here. However, I find myself saying " I wonder how you do that". And I say it a lot. Sometimes it makes sense and other times it doesn't.
Sonni

That's what makes this forum so powerful.

It's not just a repository for information - it's interactive.

If you get stuck or need to know something - you can ask.

The tap into the experience of so many other marketers is amazingly powerful.

[GeorgR.]

>>
[...] and never buying any courses or specialized training?
>>
the question is asked wrong.

It is not necessarily "buying"...but more about "acquiring knowledge."

Whether this happens by buying a course, or reading , or self-teaching via other means....the answer is:
Yes, its possible, as with any other profession or skill which can be learned.

You COULD hire someone and pay him good money to learn how to play tennis, or how to play the guitar, you could get training where you pay for. Or you can self teach and read up and trial/error on your own.

Is the forum enough to acquire all skills?

Probably. Its part of many other resources you have online, and a good one. Its more a matter of time and sorting all the wealth of information in your head

[arclight]

Yes, I think you can probably learn all you need to know in this forum. But, getting the mindset right and putting things into focused action is a real key. Also, getting a structured process in place is really important. There is some great information in here, albeit somewhat scattered around the place. Maybe the real benefit of the programs you purchase is that it is in most cases well structured and easy to follow from A through to Z.

Geoff

[AlexKaplo]

Hey there,

Although you can learn a very big percentage of how to succeed in a online business right here in the warrior forum, I have personally found that through all the years of just being "stuck" and just spending a lot of money on other products I didn't even really need because I had all the knowledge I needed to begin, was how I learned my lesson and kind of got a "slap in the face", especially when I was reaching close to $0 in my bank account and then seeing yours friends already with cars, expensive clothing, etc.

I do know how to explain this but when you truly reach rock bottom and you feel like sh*t ...you kind of build up an aggression and I don't know what happens in your head ...(or my head at least) but it makes you just say screw this I'm gonna give this my best shot now...

...That's at least what happened to me before I started getting real success online. But I truly know for a fact that if I would of kept in my wallet in my pocket and instead invested 2x more of my time here, I would of probably had much better results, because here you are truly surrounded by like minded individuals and it is very inspirational and motivating to see others succeed and give advice, sharing tips, etc.

Alex Kaplo

[morwanneg]

Though members of WF can give you several advices and tips, real learning comes from researching, critical thinking, and proper application.

[artwebster]

Hi, Ron,

I respectfully disagree Art. You can't learn everything you need to know until you actually try things yourself and gain experience. As an experienced guy yourself, I'd think you'd agree that many things you will only learn from experience.

I can see that in these forums it is very, very easy to be misunderstood.

Before any action can be taken there are things you need to know. This does not imply that you need to know every single damned thing about the process that you are embarking on.

The term "all you need to know" is quantitative - not absolute.

To paraphrase my original thought, knowing all you need to know about switching on a radio does not necessarily mean that you will switch one on.

Some people collect knowledge simply to be knowledgeable, others collect it to use it practically but neither is placed in the either/or position promulgated by the OP.

Just in case this also needs to be clarified, Knowledge comes in two major sizes - theoretical knowledge which gives you an idea of what might happen if you take certain actions and practical knowledge which is acquired by applying theoretical knowledge in the practical world.

[Ron Douglas]

Good debate overall. Nice to have one once in a while without it becoming personal.

Honestly, I think a good approach is to:

- Find a specific strategy to focus on based on your skills and goals
- Learn all you can about it from experts in the Warrior Forum
- Apply what you've learned and gain practical knowledge from experience
- Come back to the forum, ask questions, make contacts, and interact
- Keep taking action and fail quickly so that you can have your breakthrough sooner rather than later

When you're ready for more advanced information, consider the War Room and the Warrior Workshops.

Peace

[ExRat]

Hi,

Can you learn everything you need to know to succeed online by reading posts on the Warrior Forum?

I don't know, or really need to know. Why would someone choose to only learn from one place? But I do see that many smart and many successful people come here regularly.

What I do know though, is that instead of just reading at the warrior forum, if you also participate in the discussion and combine this with what you observe by reading, try to continually practice and get better at both in order to glean more from them, your gains will increase drastically and so will your understanding of the whole 'big picture'.

It's almost impossible to do this learning and participating, without learning about connected things that aren't directly related to your focus. Some would call this wasteful, but it's probably impossible to quantify the value of increased awareness of the 'big picture', and how this positively affects strategy, decision-making, brain-storming and one's ability to discover and navigate brand new avenues that may not have even been invented yet, but end up being walked further down the line.

Someone mentioned overleaf about how taking action without a strategy is pointless. Each person has to find their own balance - too far either way and they are not going to be optimally productive - whether working hard with a poor strategy, or strategising continually but failing to get started.

Hi Blog Browser,

most of the posters in this forum (or any other forum) are newbies themselves casting "expert" opinions left and right but without having the bottom line figures themselves to back up their opinions.

Very true, but so what? Look at it this way - should potential millionaires keep their mouths shut? Should they keep mum because they see themselves as newbies? They only have to learn how to offer their opinion as an opinion, rather than a fact, and backed up by some basis and they then allow themselves to test their knowledge against the best - even if it's not based on years of experience.

Having the guts to put their opinion out there and to also do the right things when they get it wrong, is pretty much the same as the process they'll have to have the guts to go through when instead of opinions, they are putting out products.

PS I used the 'big picture' while reading this post, to arrive at my conclusions

[jkatzenback]

I agree that you can learn a lot but with out your own "actual experience" it is just words.

The other thing is, it is easy to be mislead by someone with a lot of posts and consider them someone to listen to yet they may have a failing business and just spend all their time in forums. These people speak in "theory" because they have no idea what really works.

But all in all the warrior forum is certainly a place you can learn one heck of a lot.