What will you NOT do?

28 replies
We know that the definition of ethics, honesty, and integrity are different for everyone.

We also know that many people here and online do things that many of us find objectionable (personal judgment based on personal definitons).

For example many will:
  • Buy Facebook likes to make it look like they are popular
  • Share email addresses
  • Use bots to handle Captcha fields so that their bots can post fake comments or posts as they wish overriding the wishes of the site owner
  • Attack someone else with negative SEO
  • Copy articles from directories and change the author information
  • Fill in fake WHOIS information so they can appear to have legitimate backlinks
  • Send offer after offer after offer via email even though this was never disclosed condition for the free report
  • Exaggerate or lie about earnings or success to sell something they don't really know how to do
  • Not have a way to unsubscribe and/or ignore efforts to unsubscribe
  • Use free software which is intended and licensed for personal use not in making money
  • Download a paid course for free if they found it through Google because the author didn't properly lock things down
  • Etc. Etc. Etc.
What are your limits? You don't have to talk about what you will do if you don't want but what will you NEVER do because it crosses your defined ethics/honesty/integrity line?

Mark
  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Well, I am not in the IM niche so I am sure my ideas are going to be much more conservative than most IMers.

    For me, I try to never get involved in selling, marketing, or doing anything I would not be proud to sell or recommend to my sister. If I have to pitch a product in a way that I would not feel comfortable doing so to my sister, then I reevaluate what I am doing.

    My reason is simple. I am selling to someone's brother or sister every time I make a sale. If I can't in good conscious recommend a product to my sister, I have no business recommending it to your sister.

    I only wish more people felt the same.
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    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      I agree with Keith here, the key is to 100% believe in what you're offering people, as if you don't believe in it who will?

      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      Well, I am not in the IM niche so I am sure my ideas are going to be much more conservative than most IMers.

      For me, I try to never get involved in selling, marketing, or doing anything I would not be proud to sell or recommend to my sister. If I have to pitch a product in a way that I would not feel comfortable doing so to my sister, then I reevaluate what I am doing.

      My reason is simple. I am selling to someone's brother or sister every time I make a sale. If I can't in good conscious recommend a product to my sister, I have no business recommending it to your sister.

      I only wish more people felt the same.
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      • Profile picture of the author PCH
        It's great if you can take the sale and just feel good knowing that what you've sold was terrific value for money, and was something that will help them do whatever it is that it's supposed to do. Ultimately, I want to feel that, given the chance and choice, they would buy again from me happily.

        Cheers,
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  • Profile picture of the author casablancas
    There really aren't a lot of personal ethics in the IM world. There are enough rules and regulations to follow as it is that cover most people's boundaries.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Simple. I won't do something I don't want done to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by casablancas View Post

      There really aren't a lot of personal ethics in the IM world.
      I disagree wholeheartedly. There are people without ethics, but the industry as a whole does not lack them.


      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Simple. I won't do something I don't want done to me.
      This, pretty much. If I have to hesitate for a second and wonder about consequences, I will usually back off of said practice.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Simple. I won't do something I don't want done to me.
      This is also my leading principle, and not only in business but in life as well.

      Mark, I can to add something to your list.

      I do love to explore new things, and I found a delicacy. Some marketer gives a 30 day money back garantee on an expensive product that ceases on X month 22th, and the course will start on the next month 7th only.

      That's interesting, isn't it?

      Sandor
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Simple. I won't do something I don't want done to me.
      While I mostly agree with this, I think many of us who have worked online for a long time have learned to personally accept many things as "normal" that shouldn't be.

      Things like the "auto date changing scripts" and "only 3 copies left". I know some of us have just learned to live with those things. The danger there is that we get a bit desentized to them. As that begins to happen it gets easier and easier to do things that are more and more "grey".

      That is my reason for always trying to look at things from the perspective of someone I care about (my sister) who is not as desensitized as I am to many online marketing games and tricks.
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

        While I mostly agree with this, I think many of us who have worked online for a long time have learned to personally accept many things as "normal" that shouldn't be.

        Things like the "auto date changing scripts" and "only 3 copies left". I know some of us have just learned to live with those things. The danger there is that we get a bit desentized to them. As that begins to happen it gets easier and easier to do things that are more and more "grey".

        That is my reason for always trying to look at things from the perspective of someone I care about (my sister) who is not as desensitized as I am to many online marketing games and tricks.
        Fake scarcity, fake likes, fake followers... It all seems trivial, unimportant. If it's the bump that gets the sale, it's okay. I'm no angel and I'm not trying to hold myself out that way. Whether we like it or not "manufacturing" credibility is lying. Maybe it's a small lie, maybe not. If someone finds success with small lies they often move to larger lies. Before long, it comes to out and out deception, or whatever is necessary to get the sale.

        But that's not where I'm coming from either. Personally, I don't much care what other people do. I care about what I do. I've been around for a while. I was in business before the Internet was a viable market place.

        I've tried all the sneaky shortcuts. Some work well. But from experience I know that "whatever you do, you do to yourself." And if you're lying and cheating it will come back to you, often at the worst possible time. I know lots of people won't buy into this but you always reap what you sow, always. I've got the scars to prove it. I play fair because I want people to play fair with me. It's not some self righteous attitude, it's practical.
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  • Profile picture of the author louie6925
    I won't do anything illegal, and my biggest ethic in all 7 niches I work in including IM is one I stick very strictly to, and that is not to sell anything that I haven't personally purchased or been given to review!
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    Feel free to chat if you live in the UK I may have something for you!
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      As an example, the list you showed at the beginning of this thread. I have never done any of those, and I never would. But I don't think for moral reasons.
      In my late 50's, and in business for all of my adult life...I have just never seen a single example of someone becoming successful using low life tactics like the ones you describe.

      I'll use any advantage I can get. But LIE? No. Not because of moral reasons, but because the results are not there. How many times will you deal with a person you catch in a lie...any lie?

      I would never lie about results I've achieved, what they get when they buy from me, or what it will do for them. Not because I'm a moral guy, but because lying is a stupid thing to do.
      Bash a competitor or try to hurt their business? I've been tempted, after my content is taken and used as-is except with their links...but there are more profitable ways to spend my time.

      I sell a local online marketing service for several thousand dollars plus a monthly fee. Every time I speak to a group I turn down one or two people who apply for it. But only because I know that it's not a good fit, and it would be a bad decision for them.

      My rule is this; If I think it will generate a phone call I want to avoid...I don't do it.
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      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    On one level I would do anything.

    "The human heart is the most deceitful of all things,
    and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?"
    -Prophet Jeremiah

    On another level, I wouldn't do anything that go against my
    core Christian beliefs.

    -Ray Edwards
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    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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  • Profile picture of the author Invert Planet
    all is fair game. If I can get it for free, I will. If I can take the guy above me down, I will. Until the time comes that money is not what is traded in the market, I will do whatever it takes to put food on our plate and pay the bills.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Invert Planet View Post

      all is fair game. If I can get it for free, I will. If I can take the guy above me down, I will. Until the time comes that money is not what is traded in the market, I will do whatever it takes to put food on our plate and pay the bills.
      Good to hear. So when we find your product via Google, you're ok with us just taking it without paying ... right? You're also ok with a free, complimentary 50,000 link blast from xrummer or scrapebox or whatever to your money site.

      There's lots I wouldn't do, too many to think of and list them all, but a few are

      Fake income and/or other fake claims and fake testimonials
      Sell "cures" for incurable medical conditions
      Provide testimonials for products I don't believe in or sell them
      Share email addresses
      Attack someone else with negative SEO
      Copy articles from directories and change the author information
      Not have a way to unsubscribe and/or ignore efforts to unsubscribe
      Download a paid course for free if they found it through Google

      Become so money centered that ethics don't matter.
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  • Profile picture of the author erwin78
    Hello,

    I'm always looking for a positive things so I won't be talkig what I won't do.
    But I will do what is the best and good for all. At least I will try.

    I love internet and I will only use it to do good things to share love and positivness. And if everybody will try to do the same the world would be a better place.

    All the best and keep smiling.
    See you on top, Erwin.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheArticlePros
    Edit: After reading Mark's follow-up post, I opted to change my light-hearted answer to a serious one:

    In every business I have ever been a part of, I treat every single customer like I expect to be treated. My first real job was with Revco DS, Inc, a company that was bought by CVS Pharmacy in 1998. Revco had a big sign at the front of every store and it said:

    Every Customer, Every Time

    It was a very simple motto, but it's something I carried with me in everything I've done ever since. I pretend like each customer is me, and then I decide how I'd want to be treated in that situation.

    -- j
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    Posting About Life & Video Games:
    http://www.jarycu.com

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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Thanks for the responses - very enlightening. Of course the bad things people can and do do are not limited to my list nor limited to any one niche.

    I think one of the phrases that I've heard a lot here over the years that really rubs me the wrong way goes something like "look you can whine and complain all day long about guru XXX doing YYY or you can do like him and be rich."

    I think for everyone who follows the crowd there are people who are successful despite purposefully NOT doing what the successful do. I have also been surprised at the people who buy into the tactics. I'll give you one example.

    There is a beloved man who has a huge following with books in the bookstore. You would know who it is if I said his name. A couple years ago (or at some point recently) he got involved with some gurus in the IM crowd doing cross promotions and such. Amongst other things he sells in the business market but is not in IM.

    All the sudden his server started crashing and his emails started going out wrong so they had to be resent and everyone became his best friend and basically started doing some of those things that many of us don't like.

    This guy, in my opionion, was the symbol of integrity before - he was someone you could trust. Now? He's just another guy using whatever tactics he can get away with.

    Now some people will point to his increase in sales as a result of these tactics and say that he's MORE successful today because of learning new things. In my personal opinion, he's LESS successful in my eyes because it's like his focus changed. The content is still good but the feeling just isn't the same.

    None of what he's doing is necessarily illegal, unethical, immoral, etc. but where as before almost anyone would let him in their house, now he's just another salesman.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author jaeger
    Nice guys never win
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    • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
      Originally Posted by jaeger View Post

      Nice guys never win
      That depends on your definition of "win".

      As for me,most of the above lists apply, but my pet peeve is software piracy.

      I am a reformed pirate. It used to be I wouldn't DREAM of paying for software, or anything digital for that matter, if there was any way I could get it for free. If I needed a software package to do something, it was off to the warez sites! Never thought twice about copyrighted images, all fair game as far as I was concerned...

      That all changed when I started programming/designing for a living - all of a sudden, it somehow didn't make sense for me to ignore copyright laws anymore.

      Funny, how your attitude changes when you start making a living from your own intellectual property
      Signature

      I just added this sig so I can refer to it in my posts...

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    • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
      Originally Posted by jaeger View Post

      Nice guys never win
      That's what we are told...

      However being an out and out ass in business will guarantee you don't win...

      Here is an interview from a "nice guy" that has made a few $$$'s:

      Richard Branson: Nice Guys Can Finish First | Entrepreneur.com
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  • Profile picture of the author yourreviewer
    Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

    [*]Buy Facebook likes to make it look like they are popular
    Interesting that you mention buying Facebook likes Mark. I advised my client strictly not to buy Facebook fans for his website.

    But he did not listen to me and ended up buying over 1000 Facebook fans on Fiverr. I told him he was just wasting his money.

    However this tactic worked for him. He displays his Facebook fanpage box in the sidebar of the website and everyday he gets atleast 10 genuine Facebook fans to his website and his traffic has definitely picked up.

    He got back to me asking me what I think now. I said that the only reason his tactic worked was because of the high quality content he had on his site and I still insisted that I wouldn't do it.

    He argued good quality content may be the reason, but the social proof is also equally important.

    I know this is quite different from what your question was which is more about ethics and not about what works and what doesn't but just wanted to share the story about Facebook likes.
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  • Profile picture of the author mike4470
    I like the golden rule.
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  • Profile picture of the author goindeep
    Will not lie, cheat or steal
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    Personal integrity is the ultimate test for everyone. What any one will do and not do depends on each one individually. No one else can make the decision for them.

    However if your not sure about something or have doubts about the particular action your going take; reach out to someone you trust. A different perspective can stop you from hurting yourself or someone else; including your customers.

    I have someone that I can reach out to, who is 19 years my junior, that I can discuss anything with. Fortunately his input gives me different angles to look at what I'm going to do. Many times his viewpoint has kept me from crossing a line I didn't realize I was going to cross.

    But the ultimate responsibility comes back on the person who made the decision.

    Ken

    The Old Geezer
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  • Profile picture of the author michaeljcheney
    I will not do anything that:

    - Puts money before people
    - Tries to "game" the search engines
    - Leaves a stain in my mind
    - Sacrifices long-term goals for short-term gains
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    Get Free Email Marketing Tips, Tactics and Strategies[URL=https://www.emailmarketingsecrets.org]
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  • Profile picture of the author Litherland
    I wouldn't go into buying backlinks or buying thousands of facebook likes and twitter/followers.
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    www.mywillsuk.co.uk UK Will Writing Service
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