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Being Accused Of This Just Gets Me Fed Up

by jamawebinc
31 replies
So I am selling a $1 product...its a bundle of 5 lessons...

I also give an Optional Free Bonus of a 3 day trial to my members area. Here is the actual quote from the salesletter...

----
I'll tell you what. I'll even let you even have the option of taking a free trial of the Personal Instruction Program. And remember, it's optional

You can remove it from your shoppingcart if you want, so you are not forced to take this bonus, but it's there if you want it.

If you like the Personal Instruction Program, do nothing and you will be billed $29.99 per month starting after your free trial ends. You can cancel at any time.

Remember, this is just an added bribe to get you to try the oil painting express package. It's there if you want some more lessons, for free...but you're under no obligation to take this free bonus.
----

And then when they leave it in their shopping cart, an autoresponder gets sent to them giving them a URL to go choose their own username and password for the members area...and they are again told How to cancel and they will be charged if they do not cancel.

----

So 3 days later, don't I get 2 emails from people accusing me of Tricking Them And Fraud and Illegal Activities, and threatening to call their credit card company because of the $29.99 that was charged to their card?

Telling me there is NO Link TO CANCEL...They Wanted To Cancel, But Didn't Know How, etc.

Couldn't find how to cancel, but Of course, they knew how to write the email to me accusing me of trickery.

If this is how it is with a membership site...if you have to deal with people, who frankly don't read what they agree to buy, or don't understand what they read...I really don't think it is worth the headache!!!
#accused #fed
  • Profile picture of the author Kris Turner
    Generally, the lower the price of your product, the lower the quality of your customer. This is what you get when you sell something for a dollar.

    I once had someone tell me they were going to report me to the office of fair trade here in the UK - trouble was, all she'd had was my free online course. So no trade had occurred. Silly woman (my point is, I get more problems from people who have free stuff than I do from people who buy $97 courses).
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    • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
      Originally Posted by Alex Taylor View Post

      Generally, the lower the price of your product, the lower the quality of your customer. This is what you get when you sell something for a dollar.
      That's an interesting point. Although some of them were past customers as well.

      It also proves that many many people do not read a webpage, but simply scan it and only really "read" a few parts.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kris Turner
        Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

        That's an interesting point. Although some of them were past customers as well.

        It also proves that many many people do not read a webpage, but simply scan it and only really "read" a few parts.
        You're right about people not reading websites.

        I've had at least 5 people complain that they were duped into ordering an ebook when they were lead to believe it was a physical book.

        They always disappear though when I show them the 9 or 10 times on the sales page and order page where I tell them it's a digital product to be downloaded seconds after ordering.
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        • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
          Originally Posted by Alex Taylor View Post

          You're right about people not reading websites.

          I've had at least 5 people complain that they were duped into ordering an ebook when they were lead to believe it was a physical book.

          They always disappear though when I show them the 9 or 10 times on the sales page and order page where I tell them it's a digital product to be downloaded seconds after ordering.
          I have a similar experience. When I show them all the proof...how it's clearly explained on the product page, how it repeated in the email that was sent to them, I show them a screenshot of how their shoppingcart looked and how easy it was to remove it if they chose, etc...they all seem to say...well, ok, but cancel me now and don't charge me again.

          Which leads me to believe they now have a bad taste in their mouth about doing business with me and I can forget them ever being a repeat customer.

          Bu, perhaps if they are a "low quality" customer they wouldn;t have bought a back-end product to begin with,
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Those people didn't see it as buying a backend product - they were looking at a $1 product only.

            At some point, test the promotion another way.

            Turn it around - offer a 3 or 7 day membership trial that clearly states it will charge at the end of the trial period. Play up the membership as the important product and GIVE away the $1 product as a bonus for giving the membership a try.

            kay
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  • Profile picture of the author Inbound
    Business man, it's all part of business. :-) There's always a few that go off the deep end for no reason. I have had clients do the same type of thing with me and I said no problem. Send them their money and two days later email me back asking why there article isn't posted. Bahaha, sometimes I think they are just so worried about getting ripped they go overboard, which is understandable in this game.

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  • Profile picture of the author JonathanBoettcher
    There's also a bad apple in every barrel.... you do what you can to keep them away, but inevitably one or two will always slip in.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Oops - posted then reread what you said and I had read it wrong.

    If they have to email to you to stop the charge, it's possible that your email is getting eaten by your spam filter or not making it to you for some other reason. 3 days isn't much time to straighten out such a mistake.
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  • Profile picture of the author mormel
    Hi,

    You'll have these sorts of things with every product you sell, every list you send emails to, every membership site you put up. Some people are just dumb, plain stupid and/or unwellwilling. Don't let their angry mail spoil your day, just send them their money back, don't argue, scrap them off your list and make sure they'll never get on it again. That's better for your peace of mind.

    Yours, peacefully, Ed
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  • Profile picture of the author IMChick
    Take them off your list and give the cancellation refund immediately. Then move on. If this is happening too often, a large percentage of sales for instance, you should change the offer substantially because this $1 offer with continuity 'tested' to not work well for you.

    Don't feel too bad about it--I keep reading about the absolute outrage on these threads that people feel they are being tricked into continuity programs--mind you, it would appear that someone posting on the WF was actually into marketing or IM, and this is also their mindset.
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  • Profile picture of the author shane_k
    Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

    So I am selling a $1 product...its a bundle of 5 lessons...

    I also give an Optional Free Bonus of a 3 day trial to my members area. Here is the actual quote from the salesletter...

    ----
    I'll tell you what. I'll even let you even have the option of taking a free trial of the Personal Instruction Program. And remember, it's optional

    You can remove it from your shoppingcart if you want, so you are not forced to take this bonus, but it's there if you want it.

    If you like the Personal Instruction Program, do nothing and you will be billed $29.99 per month starting after your free trial ends. You can cancel at any time.

    Remember, this is just an added bribe to get you to try the oil painting express package. It's there if you want some more lessons, for free...but you're under no obligation to take this free bonus.
    ----

    And then when they leave it in their shopping cart, an autoresponder gets sent to them giving them a URL to go choose their own username and password for the members area...and they are again told How to cancel and they will be charged if they do not cancel.

    ----

    So 3 days later, don't I get 2 emails from people accusing me of Tricking Them And Fraud and Illegal Activities, and threatening to call their credit card company because of the $29.99 that was charged to their credit card.

    Maybe it is just me, but I had to read your post 3 times before I got what was going on. I don't think your instructions are clear enough, from what I read in this post.

    I saw $1 product, a FREE bonus, then I see the $29.99 charge but in the next paragraph I see this, "It's there if you want some more lessons, for free...but you're under no obligation to take this free bonus."

    So it confused me, It made me think again it was free.


    I think your instructions are not clear and it is your job as an internet marketer to make them clear.

    And I find it interesting that everyone is so quick to jump to the conclusion that it is just a bad customer.

    Don't forget you as an experienced Internet Marketer might think that your instructions are clear, but that is just because you know what to look for, and where to look on the page.

    Your customers might not be experienced online shoppers, and you have to take that into consideration. Heck they might even be first time internet shoppers.

    Even if they have shopped online before they more than likely will not catch that recurring billing.

    The only reason I caught it was because I just learned about recurring billing last week. I bet you two weeks ago I wouldn't have caught it.


    Shane_K
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    Here's what you ought to do instead next time.

    Offer a 3 day $1 trial of the membership site, and sell people on the value of that instead.

    Then throw in the bonuses just for trying out the offer.

    Now you're doing it right.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Mormel,

      It's interesting how many people call others 'dumb' or 'stupid' for missing the finer details.

      Perhaps they were in a hurry?

      Perhaps they weren't in a silent, locked room at the time and were distracted?

      Perhaps 1000 other things that don't mean that they are dumb or stupid.

      Hi Jamawebinc,

      If you are going to write a sales letter, and then find that the buyer has rushed the order process and missed some of the finer details, perhaps you should congratulate yourself for writing a sales letter that is performing exactly as it was intended to.

      If this is how it is with a membership site...if you have to deal with people, who frankly don't read what they agree to buy, or don't understand what they read...I really don't think it is worth the headache!!
      Your salesletter is meant to put your customer in the frame of mind where they will miss certain things on their way to the buy button. So as well as missing logical reasoning and financial accountability they are also missing the finer details of the purchase.

      You could solve your headache by changing things, but you might also lose the sale as well. Get rid of the emotionally charged buyers and there might not be any buyers at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author GreatBiz
    Hey, people don't always read the terms and content on your salespage entirely which is why they can easily miss things out. I have a squeeze page that offers a free report and once they opt in, they will see an offer on the download page which they can take up or simply scroll down and download the free report.

    Even though the main header shouts out loudly that "For your free report, please scroll down to download. But before you do so, here is an offer you cannot miss", there is a fellow who still accused me of cheating him and told me that he needs to pay for the report even though I said it is free. Come on! READ!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    Anyone using the forced continuity system should
    expect to receive complaints from people who miss
    reading the phrase..

    Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

    they will be charged if they do not cancel.
    Sometimes it's in the smallest of print and sometimes
    it's writ large and obvious.

    When folks have "read" your sales copy and they are
    in the buying state, they want the shortest route to
    gratification.. they're not interested in anything that
    slows their progress.

    When they see the credit card charge they get a big
    helping of buyers remorse.

    The trick is to manage expectations and follow up sfter
    the sale with timely reminders. So the credit card charge
    doesn't come a such a surprise.

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      I usually hate to pile on, but...

      Even though you do mention the continuity up front, you keep calling it a free bonus. If you still want to pursue this course, I'd spend more time playing up the idea that they have THREE WHOLE DAYS to explore, try things and decide if they want to continue.

      Keep telling me that the membership is a free bonus, and I'm going to remember "free".

      I'm certainly neither dumb nor stupid. And I'm one of those twisted souls who actually reads software licenses, privacy policies and such. I drive brick and mortar people crazy as I sit in their shops and offices, reading contracts before I sign them.
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  • Profile picture of the author JonathanBoettcher
    I'd echo what John just said - I think you've stressed it a little bit too much in your copy. Mention it, yes, and as clearly as possible, but I wouldn't harp on it.

    Selective reading is just as common as selective hearing, and free sure is one of those things people select frequently...
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  • Profile picture of the author Samuel Lee
    Some good points made, and I think the people buying didn't see it as buying a product - they saw it as a $1 product only. It seem like you might have to offer something different to entice and test it, say a 2-5 day membership trial run that states implicitly that they will be charged full price at the end of their trial. Probably try emphasizing the membership more as the main product and then give a little fanfare to your $1 product as additional bonus. Taking the emphasis off it. Hope this helps!
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    • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
      Originally Posted by Samuel Lee View Post

      say a 2-5 day membership trial run that states implicitly that they will be charged full price at the end of their trial.
      I did this in the salesletter and in the email sent to them that gives them the link to go sign up with their own username and password.

      Some of themeven clicked this link and chose a username and password and then accused me of making an un authorized charge.

      What I think this proves is that many people simply DO NOT READ every word written. Either in a salesletter or email.

      I also state in some salesletters --- product usually leaves our shipping dept within 5 - 7 business days.

      And, of course, some people email after 5 days, not even business days and say they haven't gotten their product yet...
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  • Profile picture of the author ElysiaB
    Hi Jama

    I can understand your frustration!

    I think you mention the cost enough times for it to be obvious, but perhaps I am just well versed in sales pages?

    Without dulling the exciting "FREE" element I can't see how you could word the sales copy differently to end the confusion.

    Perhaps try putting it in red font so at least you've made the best attempt to draw their attention to it without dampening the sales copy?
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    • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
      The thing is, how come there are plenty of other people who read what the free bonus was and either removed it from their shoppingcart or contacted me to cancel during the free trial? They clearly understood the offer.

      How similar is this to when you pay a credit card bill late and they hit you with something like a $39 late fee?

      Do you call up the credit card company and say, "what is this charge for $39? You never told me I would get a late fee if I paid late" I mean, you might do that, but if you didn't read all the terms...whose fault is it?

      How about a site like wordtracker who has a free trial and states in smaller than normal writing and a lighter than normal color about being charged $59 a month after the free trial ends.

      How about a famous internet marketer whose initials are MF who, during a seminar, tells an audience he recommends never using PayPal for recurring billing because they keep telling the customer everytime they get charged and hey make it too easy to cancel.
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  • Profile picture of the author AndyBlackSEO
    You can not keep everyone happy. All you can do is provide the best service possible. I have found with my online store that occassionally i'll receive an email with someone threatening legal action, and saying they post bad press on the internet... because their order never turned up 'this morning'. They get their back up straight away, even though there could be a delay with the post etc. At the end of the day, sometimes it is better to refund the person and remove them from your list. The most important thing is to not take it personally and get it down... or more importantly, let you doubt yourself.

    Simply move on and concentrate on getting more sales from happy customers who actually appreciate your products!
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  • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
    So, just an update...

    I received an email from someone who accused my of withdrawing money from her account that she didn't authorize.

    After I returned her email with a detailed explanation of how the offer was not hiding any charges and how many times she had to cancel as well as how many times it was explained to her that she was going to be charged...she answered with this.

    "I missed the information about the monthly charge. And it was a surprise for me today when I knew that you had charged me.
    Besides, there were so many info-letters from your mail box that I didn't read all of them very attentively."

    Which I think goes to prove my point that the people who yell the loudest want to hold ME accountable because THEY did not read carefully.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

      The thing is, how come there are plenty of other people who read what the free bonus was and either removed it from their shoppingcart or contacted me to cancel during the free trial? They clearly understood the offer.
      Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

      Which I think goes to prove my point that the people who yell the loudest want to hold ME accountable because THEY did not read carefully.
      Okay, I get it now. You were not really looking for feedback. You wanted someone to commiserate with. Here you go...

      Yup. You are right. People are stupid and you are totally justified in being mad because everyone who gave you their money didn't understand the offer.

      That and $2 gets you a cup of coffee.

      Now that you know first hand that some of your buyers will react this way, you have a decision to make.

      Are the rewards worth the aggravation?

      If yes, give them their refund and forget about them. If no, dump the project and move on to something else.
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      • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        Okay, I get it now. You were not really looking for feedback. You wanted someone to commiserate with. Here you go....
        Well, not exactly. I wanted to get an impression of what others thought, how others may have handled a similar problem, etc.

        And what I found out is, some people totally agreed with me that I was not at fault.

        Other people still seemed to think I was somehow at fault.

        In other words, just like everything else. Different people have different opinions. Some like apples, some like oranges.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

          Well, not exactly. I wanted to get an impression of what others thought, how others may have handled a similar problem, etc.

          And what I found out is, some people totally agreed with me that I was not at fault.

          Other people still seemed to think I was somehow at fault.

          In other words, just like everything else. Different people have different opinions. Some like apples, some like oranges.
          My comments came after watching you argue with anyone who didn't take your side.

          The reality is, some of your buyers perceive you as someone who tried to pull a fast one on them. And some portion of those are not shy about telling you so, in terms that offend your ego.

          Some of the people who replied to you could see how some, especially if they weren't paying attention, might make the mistake.

          Either way, "I'm not a crook, you're just stupid" is not a response that will win you a lot of fans...

          And as I said, you have a choice. You can change what you are doing to accommodate those people. You can give them their refunds, and go on with your life. Or you can decide it isn't worth it, and chuck the whole project.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Wilson
    I once had someone contact me that said something like this for a free trial I ran....

    "A a business owner I think it is disgraceful that you use these bait and switch techniques that give us a taste and then expect us to pay for the rest"

    Now the part that really got me was the "As a business owner"

    So I replied to the guy that I agreed and wondered if I could have a copy of all of his products for free since he probably didn't spend too much time working on them.....never heard back....
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  • Profile picture of the author profitgenie
    Does not matter if you are online or offline if you are running any sort of business you will run accross the w@nkers, sorry but there is no other way to say it. I have been running my own businesses now for over 8 years and every now and then i come across a real dimwit.

    There is always going to be someone unhappy who tries to get something for nothing

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    • Profile picture of the author FrankHaywood
      Originally Posted by profitgenie View Post

      Does not matter if you are online or offline if you are running any sort of business you will run accross the w@nkers, sorry but there is no other way to say it.
      Very true. It doesn't matter how careful you are, how polite you are, how understanding you are, there will always be someone who sees the world in a completely different way to everyone else.

      Of course variety is the spice of life, and if we were all the same life would be very boring.

      If it's any consolation (and as an example), I opened a second email from someone today who had previously said her hosting company claimed there was a trojan in one of my PHP scripts which is complete nonsense. I think in two and half years and 15,000+ users someone else would have noticed?

      In her email she said:-

      "I have not gotten a response from you. Shall I raise this issue in the forum? Maybe you will respond then?"

      The comical thing was she was replying to my reply to her original email...

      So not only had she not read my response or acted on my suggestions, she also used it to complain to me and threaten to post about it in my own forum. :rolleyes:

      I politely pointed this out, and I've yet to receive a response.

      You will always find people like this in life, not just in business. And moaning, whining and complaining is something we can all occasionally slip into when we're not careful to keep a close eye on ourselves.

      The good news is, it's a very small minority of people who are like this. 99.99% of my customers are good, well meaning and thoughtful, and when these particular traits shine through, I always try to reward it in one way or another. It helps everyone to reinforce good behaviour dont you think?

      All the best,

      Frank Haywood.
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      • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
        I found a blog post by Jason Moffatt talking about this problem when people complained about an offer of another marketer that included forced continuity.

        Mine isn't even forced, it's optional - or opt-out. You can remove it right from the shoppingcart before you complete your purchase.

        I think Jason Moffatt says it well...and I quote:

        " I think (internet marketer) did a outstanding job of alerting people of the monthly charges, and didn't try to be slick about anything. Yet, people still complain. And guess what? I'm pretty confident many of these folks would complain no matter what the offer is.

        I don't mean to be a hard ass, but people need to accept some damn responsibility and pay attention to what they are ordering. And in this case, it's dead simple to see what is going on. And if for any reason you don't want to continue your membership, all you have to do is call the phone number they provide in plain site on their website."

        Well Said! Especially the part about accepting some responsibility!

        I had another person complain to me this morning about un-authorized charges and tell me to not ship him anything as he will not accept it.

        Now, that's a new one. Not only is he complaining about paying for a membership he was repeatedly told about, he is telling me to not ship him the product as he will not accept it. Of course he fails to understand that he did not order a tangible product.

        There never was any mention of any tangible product being shipped anywhere. No mention of shipping, or shipping charges, etc.

        Yes, I think people need to take some responsibility and read and understand what they are placing an order for.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    Don't take it personal. Its business. Fix them, and move on.
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