How To Start A Profitable Online Forum. Period. The "Real" way.

42 replies
Some guy asked this in another thread and got some really terrible advice. His quandary was that "Why will anyone participate if they see no other members active?"

I thought it was worthwhile to share my take on this with a bigger audience since I see this question alot, and because I have some experience. I actually started with no knowledge of these things really (much like most things I have done well with...) , and learned this along the way... So rather than type a bunch , I will just share with you my answer to him, and it will help some, if you want advice from a forum owner who's forum produces income:


Dear OP,

Give a free report on your subject matter to `1000 people, and hold a mastermind discussion on the subject at your forum, where readers can come participate and you will have a few hundred people creating activity within a short time frame. Keep doing it. Mine first had a hundred members, then I celebrated when it hit 500, then I "SWORE" it would have two thousand by the end of the first year, and then I swore it would double, and two years later it has....but even with more members its less active, and there are reasons.

Stay active on your forum until it hits 10k members or so or activity will die down. You have to work hard to have a good forum.Even when you have 2000 members, the only active ones will be the ones who are active at the time, and that changes in cycles, so until you hit a certain mass, activity doesnt necessarily increase with memberships.

Also, there is NEVER going to be a time when all members are active at once, so if you dream "Im going to get it to 5k members and then start charging monthly- Quit dreaming, because the time you get to that number, you are only going to be able to reach the currently active ones with your message.

Here is the biggest key:

"YOU" being present to help people in real time, is the only difference between your forum and a million others.

Forums are definitely not automated success, you have to be present offering valuable help like a soup kitchen every day, it may be a labor of love for awhile but it eventually pays off.

UNLESS, you stop being active before you hit critical mass, up to that point it only pays if you are working it hard every day.

My forum made 100k its first year because I was working on it balls to the wall 24/7 answering each question practically in real time. I had made it into a real time help center...and it only did about 60k its second year, because my activity there slowed down.

When you arent on your forum regularly, the members feel betrayed, and you lose loyalty from your members, however if you are ON IT like white on rice all the time, they see your dedication to them and they support your causes.

However, depnding on your standards of living, making 75-100k in a year for running a realtime online help center isnt bad. You just have to be available at all times to answer, none of this clocking out at 5pm stuff.

Ps. The way NOT to make it work is to start a thread at the warrior forum asking for help starting a forum, any member that joins on such a solicitation will know that you dont have very good control over what you are doing. Thats why spam is pointless, it just lets real marketers know that you dont know what you are doing when you spam.

Originally Posted by JustinDupre View Post

Try to create a couple of dozen accounts yourself and have those accounts post topics to make the forum look active......
Sorry, but this is the most grotesque advice I have ever heard, and this type of thinking is why nobody can get any quality out of the internet, or at least they have to dig through a ton of crap.... This what you just said, is the crap they are having to dig through to get to real quality stuff.

Take my advice above and get some actual authentic activity happening.
#forum #online #period #profitable #real #start
  • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
    Banned
    Try to create a couple of dozen accounts yourself and have those accounts post topics to make the forum look active
    This. Do this once and it'll be your first hi and goodbye.
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    • Profile picture of the author LetsGoViral
      Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

      This. Do this once and it'll be your first hi and goodbye.
      Not necessarily. There are marketing forums that have become quite popular and also applied this tactic in the beginning.
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  • Profile picture of the author lovboa
    Banned
    Really good information. Thank you for taking the time to write this.

    I know the thread you are talking about. I don't have the first clue of creating forums so I too gave the advice of creating threads with multiple accounts to get the ball rolling

    Obviously not a great method, and a little embarrassing to say that that would be your business strategy.

    P.S.
    I don't know if you and Justin are friends or have other issues with each other, but I think that is a little harsh to single his reply out like that. There were many poor answers given in that thread, mine included. Maybe your intentions aren't bad, but it really does look like a public ridiculing.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by lovboa View Post

      Really good information. Thank you for taking the time to write this.

      I know the thread you are talking about. I don't have the first clue of creating forums so I too gave the advice of creating threads with multiple accounts to get the ball rolling

      Obviously not a great method, and a little embarrassing to say that that would be your business strategy.

      P.S.
      I don't know if you and Justin are friends or have other issues with each other, but I think that is a little harsh to single his reply out like that. There were many poor answers given in that thread, mine included. Maybe your intentions aren't bad, but it really does look like a public ridiculing.
      Is it harsh to correct someone for giving bad advice to the 50,000 newbies who may read that post over the years? I dont think so....what we have here are blind leading blind, only people who KNOW should try an answer these things. Otherwise we are just increasing our post count and creating more trash for people to wade through.

      Ps. I dont have any problems with Justin, and it isnt personal, its speaking to the "advice" given, however. peoples lives and investments are on the line, giving inexperienced or bad advice knowingly, just to take up forum space, should be reprimanded. The post I am referring to was in OT not the main discussion, and Justin was the only one on that thread giving this advice. I wasnt singling him out.
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      • Profile picture of the author lovboa
        Banned
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Is it harsh to correct someone for giving bad advice to the 50,000 newbies who may read that post over the years? I dont think so....what we have here are blind leading blind, only people who KNOW should try an answer these things. Otherwise we are just increasing our post count and creating more trash for people to wade through.

        Ps. I dont have any problems with Justin, and it isnt personal, its speaking to the "advice" given, however you just openly admitted to giving advice in areas where you arent experienced, so perhaps I singled out the wrong post. I dont see why we would handle such things with kids gloves. Peoples lives and investments are on the line, giving inexperienced or bad advice knowingly, just to take up forum space, should be reprimanded.
        Correcting somebody in the original thread is one thing. Copy and pasting their quote into a new thread and describing it the way you did is another.

        Bad advice is given everyday on this forum. People like to share and participate their thoughts and opinions. If they are going to be ridiculed for it by people like you every time they say something that isn't the right answer, then the activity on this forum would surely die down. People wouldn't feel welcome to participate in conversations.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by lovboa View Post

          Correcting somebody in the original thread is one thing. Copy and pasting their quote into a new thread and describing it the way you did is another.

          Bad advice is given everyday on this forum. People like to share and participate their thoughts and opinions. If they are going to be ridiculed for it by people like you every time they say something that isn't the right answer, then the activity on this forum would surely die down. People wouldn't feel welcome to participate in conversations.


          ...................Okay. And what you are saying is why so many people are broke and cant make money for months. You are reprimanding me for correcting someone for sending newbies down a wrong path. So, in the process of that, your values have become clear as well.

          I dont care. All I know is the advice in my OP is solid, and whoevers name it is doesnt matter thats being called out, fact is , its terrible advice.

          People spend their childrens grocery money on these things, and they put off getting jobs... only to get advice that leads them down the wrong path and takes money from their family's table. I stand on my words and havent got one single iota of apology in me for them.

          Any person who makes up advice on the spot that isnt workable, just to fill up forum space SHOULD be called out. However my point wasnt to call anyone in partuicular out, it was to say what John Romaine said "Build the list first, then send them all to your forum in a single motion- I will add...then "STAY THERE" and answer questions in real time to keep activity going.

          Justin's post just happened to provide the perfect polarity to clarify my point. And Yes I do have a profit producing forum, so I do know.

          Or release a free report that leads interested people to your forum all in the same week...create a discussion about the report. The people who read your report will want to come into the discussion and participate.

          Ps @ Lovboa, I see you thanked me for this post, then renigged and took it back. So in YOUR world, thanks are political and personal, and not based on what information is good or not. You thanked me for good info, then took it back because I didnt appease your ego.

          In my world, its about spreading awareness of authentic ideas that really work...not kissing up to whoever is popular or politically correct.
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  • Profile picture of the author cloudstrife
    It's a shame that an argument developing out of such a small part of the Op's post is distracting from what is an otherwise quality post. Yes, you may or may not agree with how John has approached the issue of the incorrect nature of a previous response.

    However, that should not dilute from what is, all in all, a quality post. I am personally not into online forums for income generation. I simply opened this post as I like to get information on new things.

    I like discussions/arguments, but I like them even more when they add to the knowledge base.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thank you Martin. Hopefully it hasnt destroyed anyone's opportunity to see truth in this. And I have no horse in this race, but I will be glad to help anyone who would like to ask about it. Being one who DOES own a forum, as well as one who does use his real name...its not in my best interest to speak completely in depth as far as monitization...However I will be glad to answer any questions regarding how to start one, get activity going, create a buzz, increase memberships...

    Not saying this just because it happened to fall into my favor, but I always enjoy your objective expressions. Never seemingly pointed, and that is appreciated.

    -JD
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  • Profile picture of the author DaveWarrior
    Nothing wrong with fake accounts to start up a forum. I've done that in the past and it works. It's the most common way to start a forum and much quicker than the way you describe which requires 1,000 upfront leads.
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    • Profile picture of the author webmonopoly
      Originally Posted by DaveWarrior View Post

      Nothing wrong with fake accounts to start up a forum. I've done that in the past and it works. It's the most common way to start a forum and much quicker than the way you describe which requires 1,000 upfront leads.
      Im doing this right now... i was a bit sketched out after reading the first few posts tho, shoud i be answering peoples questions on my forum as admin instead?
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by DaveWarrior View Post

      Nothing wrong with fake accounts to start up a forum. I've done that in the past and it works. It's the most common way to start a forum and much quicker than the way you describe which requires 1,000 upfront leads.
      Sure if it doesnt bother you to make your customers look like idiots talking to themselves and a bunch of fake names, or if you have sociopath tendencies....

      BTW Thanks Dave, for the tip- I will never be your customer. That is- unless I already AM one and I just think your name is bob or angie or something... See what you guys do to even GOOD marketers. It casts suspicion on EVERYONE. That cannot be good for IM kind in any sense.

      As for me, I cant imagine what my customers would think if they ever thought I have 10 profiles and that when they joined my forum they thought they were talking to ten people but it was all me just pulling a big scam on them.

      If you can live with that then go for it. But I also do not agree that its a faster way. I just gave out a thousand copies of a report within two weeks time.... and to have all of those people coming back to your forum for discussion in that amount of time isnt long at all.

      I fail to see what talking to yourself on a forum does to draw any traffic. I can see how it would create the APPEARANCE of activity, but not how it would help you gain many new members as quickly as the method I described, can you create 200 profiles and give it convincing dialogue as quickly as I can get 200 new members?

      I would bet you right now that you couldnt, and Im not interested in watching you scam people enough to take you up on that bet.

      Further more, I cant see how the conversation could come off as very dynamic at all unless you are that serious of a sicko who could pull something like that off.

      I WILL tell you that a marketer I respected once told me to hire someone else to play as myself on my forum instead spending all my time doing the trivial, interacting with my people- And I have never spoken to that person since. They lost all respect. I dont even trust their Name being real after that.

      Its one thing to make marketing mistakes, its entirely another to DELIBERATELY insult the people who support you.

      There are alot of unbelievably "acceptable" practices, but that doesnt make them the wise ones, or the most effective ones, or the best ones.

      Aside from that, you dont learn any real business in the process, you just progressively become a more deeply troubled scammer. You practice bad habits....and you never learn the right ones. So how can you teach anything other than the same? What can you truly offer people except to show them how to scam and pretend they are girls and things?

      In the end, I just think that more than likely, none of the people giving this advice have very sizable forums, nor make 6 figures at it, especially their first year... becauase the mere notion of "cutting these kinds of corners" tells me that they dont have the core qualities to be original or create any kind of real success anyway.

      Do it the RIGHT way. Thats my advice. Not just from a moral standpoint but from a MONEY stand point, the kind that will last long term because you developed as a true business person in the process.

      Using myself as an example...; many posers have tried to take me down, and they end up changing their usernames from humiliation because they cant keep facade in the presence of a true business person. You develop that and all these posers voices will sound like tingling bells and whistles, while a guy like myself can speak with true conviction and not have to hide behind a fake name.

      That means you can withstand storms, and all weather, because you developed in the process....

      Anyway, I dont think these guys are successful at it, I think they are feeding you with what they MIGHT do...but you will never know if they actually did because they all use fake names and you will never even get the honor of knowing who they really ARE. They even show you that in the advice they dispense.

      Maybe thats my take, but I cant see insulting your customers by creating 12 fake profiles and talking to yourself LOL. Its laughable. But its also a warning sign of what kind of people we are dealing with on the internet when we see this kind of advice.

      However I also know that many people giving this advice are shrude teenagers with little empathy, and they dont really understand how to create true business and so they rely on these false things.

      I think you made my point again in my thread title, its about doing it the "real" way. Some people are just natural born posers I guess, and I dont apologize for calling them that because when you do such things you are SCAMMING your customers and making idiots of them.

      Call me naive but I started mine two years ago and a BAD month to me is better than a GOOD month for most of the people who would advise such things.


      -JD
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        I'm not a forum owner nor do I ever plan to be in the future, but I am a forum member and would like to give my opinion from a member's point of view.

        Personally, if I joined a forum and had conversations with members only to find out later on down the line, they weren't really who I thought they were, but were all the admin or forum owner, I would feel betrayed and like an idiot for not realizing it.

        At that point, I undoubtedly would leave with no desire to ever return.

        I'm not saying either point in the great debate here is right or wrong as they are both opinions and everyone is entitled to one. I just thought that perhaps shedding some light from a member's perspective may help in the over all decision a new forum owner just starting out may take into consideration before deciding whether to be multiple personalities or not.

        Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    Getting old n grey I stay away from arguments as best I can, I can't seem to find the original thread but regardless over a few years I have read and studied many people responses to forums, what not to do and what to do etc, and each and everyone says they are right so i wont argue as to what is or is not.

    Asking here should not be a bad thing as it is mentioned so long as people are prepared to give help in the soup kitchen of on line money, and many many people with out thinking start forums as much as people start any other type of on line activity and as such get stuck and want a hand, so the asking is not really a problem, there is no stupid question.

    The answers given unless spam are also correct for the person giving them and even on the subject of creating many persona, you will find many varied and interesting responses. I for one could not even create 2 of me, there would be ship fight and no one would win and I would just end up confused, and so would many people, and why it is not probably the best idea, but that said I have also seen and spoken with people who are very experienced with many many years experience who can do this very well.

    So rather than what is good or not good it is more how something is applied and at what level of professionalism that is more important.

    I like the idea of the give away and that is pretty well stock standard with many forums to create that, but that along can also be a little difficult with a chicken / egg type situation, and there really is not many forums the same each one has its own persona a bit like a human ( which i suppose is portrayed through the owner )

    One thing that is in common is that a forum is one of the hardest gigs you will do on line, so unless your ready to bunker in and play long term long hours long pockets its probably not for you.

    some good resources are here for starting up Admin Forum - community for blog and forum admins see download a the top and here for making money [Must read] Monetizing Online Forums | Admin Forum - community for blog and forum admins both written by long term people in the game.
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  • Profile picture of the author MovingAround
    Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

    Some guy asked this in another thread and got some really terrible advice. His quandary was that "Why will anyone participate if they see no other members active?"

    I thought it was worthwhile to share my take on this with a bigger audience since I see this question alot, and because I have some experience. I actually started with no knowledge of these things really (much like most things I have done well with...) , and learned this along the way... So rather than type a bunch , I will just share with you my answer to him, and it will help some, if you want advice from a forum owner who's forum produces income:


    Dear OP,

    Give a free report on your subject matter to `1000 people, and hold a mastermind discussion on the subject at your forum, where readers can come participate and you will have a few hundred people creating activity within a short time frame. Keep doing it. Mine first had a hundred members, then I celebrated when it hit 500, then I "SWORE" it would have two thousand by the end of the first year, and then I swore it would double, and two years later it has....but even with more members its less active, and there are reasons.

    Stay active on your forum until it hits 10k members or so or activity will die down. You have to work hard to have a good forum.Even when you have 2000 members, the only active ones will be the ones who are active at the time, and that changes in cycles, so until you hit a certain mass, activity doesnt necessarily increase with memberships.

    Also, there is NEVER going to be a time when all members are active at once, so if you dream "Im going to get it to 5k members and then start charging monthly- Quit dreaming, because the time you get to that number, you are only going to be able to reach the currently active ones with your message.

    Here is the biggest key:

    "YOU" being present to help people in real time, is the only difference between your forum and a million others.

    Forums are definitely not automated success, you have to be present offering valuable help like a soup kitchen every day, it may be a labor of love for awhile but it eventually pays off.

    UNLESS, you stop being active before you hit critical mass, up to that point it only pays if you are working it hard every day.

    My forum made 100k its first year because I was working on it balls to the wall 24/7 answering each question practically in real time. I had made it into a real time help center...and it only did about 60k its second year, because my activity there slowed down.

    When you arent on your forum regularly, the members feel betrayed, and you lose loyalty from your members, however if you are ON IT like white on rice all the time, they see your dedication to them and they support your causes.

    However, depnding on your standards of living, making 75-100k in a year for running a realtime online help center isnt bad. You just have to be available at all times to answer, none of this clocking out at 5pm stuff.

    Ps. The way NOT to make it work is to start a thread at the warrior forum asking for help starting a forum, any member that joins on such a solicitation will know that you dont have very good control over what you are doing. Thats why spam is pointless, it just lets real marketers know that you dont know what you are doing when you spam.



    Sorry, but this is the most grotesque advice I have ever heard, and this type of thinking is why nobody can get any quality out of the internet, or at least they have to dig through a ton of crap.... This what you just said, is the crap they are having to dig through to get to real quality stuff.

    Take my advice above and get some actual authentic activity happening.
    I have read that forums are not good ways to make a lot of money, they are not good monetizing tools.

    Now, I asked somethign similar to this and I am down for being a 24/7 help desk for my members if good money is to come (and I understand that it takes about 2 years for a good forum to make money).

    What would be good forum monetizing options in your opinion? I have read that Adsense is not good (I have it on my sites and it is poor, forum would be same niche as sites) so I was thinking some form of Amazon shop, selling others' products. What do you think of some form of VIP/exclusivity for paying members?

    How about traffic? What would be a good amount of traffic that would be the minimal to make a good income off the forum? From my research, forums with an alexa rank of 50,000 or lower are the ones making money and to be hitting the traffic needed for that rank is not easy at all (about 10,000 unique visitors per day minimum).
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    • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
      Originally Posted by MovingAround View Post

      What would be good forum monetizing options in your opinion? I have read that Adsense is not good (I have it on my sites and it is poor, forum would be same niche as sites) so I was thinking some form of Amazon shop, selling others' products. What do you think of some form of VIP/exclusivity for paying members?).
      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      cheers. /\
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    it seems funny many people here have different persona / pen names on many different sites they own, but use a pen name on a forum and your scum ? can't quite work that one out and second use a content writer on your blog and thats fine but use a content writer on your forum and your scamming people.

    a lot of 2 sided coins being flipped, and yes everyone is correct, not here to argue just observe responses.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      it seems funny many people here have different persona / pen names on many different sites they own, but use a pen name on a forum and your scum ? can't quite work that one out and second use a content writer on your blog and thats fine but use a content writer on your forum and your scamming people.

      a lot of 2 sided coins being flipped, and yes everyone is correct, not here to argue just observe responses.
      If you're referring to me, that is not what I said at all.

      Now if one had multiple accounts here each with a different pen name, that would be more in line of what I was saying.

      If you weren't referring to me, carry on!

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post



        If you weren't referring to me, carry on!

        Terra
        Honestly no not refering to you in any way, it is more following the subject now over a very long time, and reading more replies than probably meals on the subject.

        sorry for the confusion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Woodward82
    After trying many times in setting up a forum with my father. I can confirm that those fake accounts dont do much. It finally came down to getting someone in the niche to make a post on there blog about forum which in turn brought over 100 members in a couple days or so.

    I also like the free report idea. Care to expnad on how you got the free report in the hands of 1k people. Also i am really interested in your monetizing as to bring in 50k to 100k a year.

    Great thread i will give thanks when i make it to my cpu.


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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thank you Woodward , and thank everyone for their responses. Okay Im going to give you the key, and if any of my members read this, then I will expect them to take it as me being me, just giving you the pure unadulterated truth like I always do....a truth that I hope every one of my own members uses to their advantage and not against me myself for sharing the valuable knowledge with you for free.

    Here's the deal.

    Until you have a gazillion members adsense and all that isnt going to make you any significant money.

    I will tell you that it didnt take two years for my forum to make money, it only took two WEEKS, and my first month netted five grand.

    Quickly I will teach you something from both my pitfalls and also my successes.

    You cant make (significant) money on adsense with just 1k members. But you CAN make significant MONEY with only 1k members. In fact I will tell you this; because my forum has four thousand members now doesnt mean I make any more money than I did when it had 1k, and the reason is because of what I stated in an earlier post:

    "Forum members hang out in cycles", your total forum is never accessible at one time, even through email, because half of them only joined because you were another bell or whistle they were chasing, they will probably come in and out and be members for life, but at any given time they may lack interest in your subject matter and be chasing another bell or whistle somewhere.

    So when you have 2,000 members, you still have about the same activity as when you had 1000, because the first cycle is off chasing bells and whistles again.

    Actually the drop off isnt quite that drastic, but you get the picture. Even though I have 4k members , the most who were ever online in a single day was 567. Most days it is about 30....and lately it has been below 20 because I have been here instead of there and it makes some feel betrayed that I share secrets here when they feel I should only share them with my own forum.

    So far does this make sense?

    Okay.

    Now "If" you are real with your forum, and IF you answer questions in real time, and IF you are dedicated to being there for your 1000 members, then the loyalty you achieve with your members will be nothing short of MIND BLOWING... Here you have 1000 people who joined because they love you or your reports....and now you have all of them corralled into one place and you are loving them back all day in real time....this creates something powerful.

    Now again, this can happen in 2-4 weeks, it doesnt have to take months.

    If you start to slack off and make those people feel unappreciated, then they phase out and you may get a 1000 more members but you will not have really grown because you are just constantly replacing a cycle.

    However IF you stay dedicated to your forum daily, then eventually you hit critical mass where a ton of people are active all the time, even though not EVERYONE is always active. You come to a place where not all pistons are firing at once, but you have so many life pistons that one is always firing... Im going to come to a point here.

    What happens when a person joins your forum?

    What do they also join?

    Now I wont wait for you to answer that.

    They join your forums mailing list.

    Only its BETTER than a mailing list because instead of just getting an email from you once per week, these people are interacting with you DAILY and you are there for them DAILY... its a [powerful bond.

    What happens when you are powerfully bonded with your list?

    More people open your email.

    Now I want to stop and make a point here- the amount of time you spend loving on your forum is in direct relationship at any given time, with the average number of "opens" you get when you send out an email.

    Forinstance, on a month when Im on my forum daily interacting I can send out a forum newsletter and get up to a 50% open rate, but on a month when I havent been on it and people are feeling betrayed because they see me post5ing at WF but not on my own forum...then I get a 10% open rate.

    So because of the interactive nature, the relationship you build with your forum list is better than the one you build with an aweber list.

    Here's the point, you can make thousands your first MONTH, but you wont do it dorking around with adsense. You have to realize that when people join your forum they also join your forums LIST, and thats where the true power comes from.

    Now if you have been loving on your forum, then when you do a WSO lets say , 50 of your members come rushing to it and buy immediately and they create a ton of great reviews about you and activity and your WSO blows up and you make $20,000, but if thats not the case and you havent been on your forum, 10% of the people will still love you, and you do a WSO and you send your list to it, and it may do bad by your standards, but you still make 5-6k...

    Also owning a forum helps you keep your finger on the pulse of what your market is interested in, you can test thread ideas, you get FREE CLASSIFIED ads in your own forum that most others have to pay for, and as many as you want....and firther more, once you get to about 2k members, then relevent companies will pay you up to 3-4k per year for banner space, as my one banner customer does now.

    I dont want a forum fuill of banners but I could easily sell 5-10 more spaces like that...Not based on adsense or affiliate promotions- CASH UP FRONT.

    Two weeks after I built my forum I sold that spot for $750 per 6 months, now its up to 2k per six months...

    But in short, you are looking in the wrong place. You can make money your first month, but its in the list, and it works by one rule:

    A: Love on your forum and give it personal attention.

    It fails by another:

    B: Neglect your forum and dont give it attention

    It picks back up by another:

    C: Go back to loving on your forum and giving it attention.

    This is not a hard long plan, but it may seem that way as we break down the details. In short:

    Put out a product for free....make it the beginning report to an extended teaching that people can get more of by joining a mastermind thread at your forum.

    Get a thousand people there...love on them, and dont neglect them...teach them what you know unabashedly and exclusively.

    Start using your mailing list and create products based on what you share together at your forum.

    If you do it like I described, you will get my same results - $100k in YEAR ONE!

    So hows that for sharing?

    Ps. Some will get irritated from time to time about having to get forum emails... Hey, if they dont want to be on your newsletter then dont take advantage of your forum either is my thought, You have to also have some hard ball standards and be able to be a general when needed. You dont want to be on my list? Why are you on my forum? To steal content? Lol?

    So thats how you do it guys. Quit dorking with adsense, ylou are going to be broke for two years like that. You can more quickly build a forum following even than you can a mailing list.

    There is the secret I have held for two years. Building a forum list is quicker, more effective and more powerful than building an email list, and setting up a forum is as easy as setting up an aweber squeeze page. Actually CHEAPER too!

    Now go make some people happy, make some money, and dont make me sorry I told ya!

    and if you belong to my forum reading this, know that I love you guys and you have been a heck of alot more than just a mere income project to me. I think most of you know that though. Still YOU of all people I want to have this knowledge to empower yourselves above all others, so Im glad I shared it.

    I hope this post helps someone and now that I have let out the major secret, I may as well teach. I know ALOT about it so I will be glad to answer any direct questions here.

    PPs. While all the gurus are telling you to build mailing lists all these different ways, and many of them are true , because you cant really go wrong with that, think for a moment about what 60% of them do after they sell you a report....Whats the first thing they do?

    Get you into a mastermind group right?

    A forum is another word for that or "form" of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Roncone
    John,

    Let me first say that I invariably, once again, tip my hat to you.

    The type of quality information that you provide and the extent to which you provide it never ceases to amaze me.

    In fact -- I think I'm going to join your forum Even if just for the ****s and giggles, though I know that I, as well as anyone else who would join, will receive much more than that.

    Dealing with the quick-fixers and the artificial inflaters is a nasty byproduct of what honest men have to wade through when we're in this business. However, I feel that it eventually plays out to our favor.

    At least I like to think that there is so much fake crap out there that when someone stumbles upon an honest man's work, it gives off the aura of having genuine value. I've been pretty good about picking those diamonds out myself and can only hope that there are more people with the same talent (lest I lose faith in the business entirely)

    Before I ramble too much though, I'll end my post here. I just really wanted to thank you for the breadth of knowledge you poured out here today. Most people won't realize just how much you gave out for nothing in return.

    Best,
    -Mike Roncone
    Signature

    Founder & Web Strategist at Grae Web Strategies

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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Mike Roncone View Post

      John,

      Let me first say that I invariably, once again, tip my hat to you.

      The type of quality information that you provide and the extent to which you provide it never ceases to amaze me.

      ....I just really wanted to thank you for the breadth of knowledge you poured out here today. Most people won't realize just how much you gave out for nothing in return.

      Best,
      -Mike Roncone
      Thanks Mike, you are really great with words man! Not that they arent sincere because I receive them, but you express really well. I admire that.

      On another point, another secret, the secret that makes your free report get 1000 downloads, is in SHARING.

      Whether its indirect or direct, sharing ALWAYS comes back, and as I demonstrated above, when you hold back and dont share, that also has an effect...so sharing everything you know is really the safest plan in the world to attract money.

      I guarantee you that I wont take anyone up on it, but my pm box is going to get about 5 emails from people offering me money to coach them on this now...but I dont really do that... the point is that sharing is where its at.

      Sharing is why I have more thanks than I do posts...(Well maybe not after today lol), and what do you think that brings?

      Prosperity.

      Its not just hocus pocus, you can see how it works in rational terms.

      I appreciate your kind words.

      -John

      Ps. Yes I think if you share true experience genuinely you are absolutely a rarity in the forum world. Keep being that, and share where others with hold, the natural law will blow your doors down with blessing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        John,

        Good stuff, man!

        Here's my $0.02...

        Put out the course. It will sell and you will prosper more because of it.

        If you don't want to put all the time in yourself, you could take one of those 5 or more people who are going to PM you with coaching requests and JV with them. Find the one who is going to do the work and make a case study out of them and go from there.

        Or just put it out on your own and you could always do a more in depth JV/case study deal down the line.

        But based on what seems to be popular in the WSO forum, a report/course about how you made six figures with a forum in the first year should sell quite well. Would probably do well on CB as well. Especially since you have a 'list building' angle to it.
        Signature
        "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
        ~ Zig Ziglar
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      • Profile picture of the author Les Blythe
        Hi John,

        One thing I believe I can recognize is quality advice when I see it and I have just seen it in spades. Thank you so much for being who you are and sticking to your principles.

        You are 100% correct about loving your forum. I am working with a very well respected and prosperous marketer at the moment (name withheld to protect the innocent) and I am observing the very mistakes you outline AND the forum is dying!

        Too many people looking for a quick buck I'm afraid and not prepared to put in fair or exceptional effort for fair or even exceptional reward

        Won't babble on too much but once again - thanks.
        Signature
        Find out how I've made $1,000s every month since 2011
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  • Profile picture of the author sovereignn
    Great thread John and I really appreciate the info.

    It looks like your forum is doing quite well and they've always sort of intrigued me.

    If you don't mind me asking is the forum you run a membership one?
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

      John,

      Good stuff, man!

      Here's my $0.02...

      Put out the course. It will sell and you will prosper more because of it.

      If you don't want to put all the time in yourself, you could take one of those 5 or more people who are going to PM you with coaching requests and JV with them. Find the one who is going to do the work and make a case study out of them and go from there.

      Or just put it out on your own and you could always do a more in depth JV/case study deal down the line.

      But based on what seems to be popular in the WSO forum, a report/course about how you made six figures with a forum in the first year should sell quite well. Would probably do well on CB as well. Especially since you have a 'list building' angle to it.
      Thanks Lance, I dont hang out in the main forum much, but 500 views in a day is popular?

      Thats cool.

      Actually one of the mods metioned to me today that this may be a good WSO subject but I turned the idea away because I wasnt going to share this for fear that it would offend my forum members, but maybe... I appreciate you making that okay because it wouldnt kill me to sell a report since I already let the cat out of the bag. lol

      I will tell you that being in the main discussion area at all can be intimidating even for myself because people are hardcore in here at slapping you down, but you guys on this thread have made me feel very welcome and that is greatly appreciated.

      Originally Posted by sovereignn View Post

      Great thread John and I really appreciate the info.

      It looks like your forum is doing quite well and they've always sort of intrigued me.

      If you don't mind me asking is the forum you run a membership one?
      Well , it has a gold membership area, but the key to becoming a gold member is through buying a particular wso of mine. There are also members who pay monthly , but not more than 30 or so...and they miss payments half the time... The money is in the powerful forum list. The thing is that basing it on a monthly membership model doesnt really work because of the come and go nature, and cycles of forums.

      When I first started I observed that Allen did it this way and didnt understand why, but I knew he was the best...and later I figured out why.

      The only membership model that works is allens, whereby you carge a one time lifetime fee....i know that busts alot of bubbles to hear, however it really is true. As I said you never really have all your members in one place at one time, so at any given time you are only reaching a percentage of them, just like with a mailing list.

      My own forum is really slow right now, because I have gotten off doing other things, but even so its still at around 60k without me really working in it much... I really intend to go back and be more dedicated to it though, just got off to chasing my own bells and whistles a little this year...It could probably do 200k if I worked as hard this year as I did the first one. The potential has grown but my participation has waned.

      There is a time when you reach critical mass, like Allen has here, and whether you participate or NOT , its big enough to roll on its own, but from my estimation that doesnt happen till it hits around 8-10k members. I could already have that if I was as dedicated as I was the first year, again thats my bad, and this thread is making me feel guilty as heck about it, and also making me think I could do it fulltime if I applied myself...

      The point here is this, people are getting CRAP everywhere they look...if you truly love your crowd and you are genuione with them in your sharing, and you arent a BOT or a VA, and you arent insulting them with fake usernames, that comes across, and it really is the difference that seperates you.

      The biggest thing I heard all the first year was "Wow this is a real forum, with realtime help" and people thought that was sooo unique.

      I didnt know it was unique, I just thought that was how it was supposed to be...till a guru told me how trivial it was wasting my time and tried to teach me their way of fooling their members into thinking they were posting...and it was really a VA- Then I thought "well, maybe this IS special".

      You can be the thing that makes the difference. It really isnt up to the winds...you really do have some control, you just have to be on your forum enough to get to know it and its cycles and rythems...even while you are learning all that though you can make money. Alot more than adsense.

      Hope this helps.

      Will try to answer the next posts on this one. BRB

      Originally Posted by Les Blythe View Post

      Hi John,

      One thing I believe I can recognize is quality advice when I see it and I have just seen it in spades. Thank you so much for being who you are and sticking to your principles.

      You are 100% correct about loving your forum. I am working with a very well respected and prosperous marketer at the moment (name withheld to protect the innocent) and I am observing the very mistakes you outline AND the forum is dying!

      Too many people looking for a quick buck I'm afraid and not prepared to put in fair or exceptional effort for fair or even exceptional reward

      Won't babble on too much but once again - thanks.
      Thanks Les,

      I feel like alot of these marketers grew up in a generation where there is a thin line between virtual reality and reality, and they are oblivious to the things some of us use to have to do to earn respect in business... In our world a lack of authenticty means a lack of morals, and in theirs it doesnt really have any meaning either way... But it DOES.

      I mean, how can faking out all the people who love and support you not be wrong?

      The result is that no one can make money because very few are really what they pose to be, and that means very few really have the experience to share any knowledge that is actually true and tested and experienced.

      Im not telling you here that I have ten forums and I make a million dollars per monthlol. Just telling you the truth, because I feel thats the only thing that really has the power to help anyone... and its the only thing that wont return bad karma to ME.

      Im no stranger to that either...if I am not walking straight my people let me know! lol And its okay... we can always get back on path, but some are so far off, they wouldnt even recognize the right path if they saw it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        If you changed your thread title to...

        I made $100,000 in YEAR ONE...How To Start A Profitable Online Forum. Period. The "Real" way.

        or something like that, your views would probably go through the roof.
        Signature
        "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
        ~ Zig Ziglar
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

          If you changed your thread title to...

          I made $100,000 in YEAR ONE...How To Start A Profitable Online Forum. Period. The "Real" way.

          or something like that, your views would probably go through the roof.
          Thanks Lance, thats brilliant. You know the funny thing is that you can plan and plan, and maybe all of your plans get foiled...but in the process you were in action, and somehow sometimes something hits you that you werent even trying to make anything out of.... In my case it reminds me that God is more in control than I am alot of times, but even moreso its the natural "laws" that are in control, which I personally believe were set in motion for purposes like these. In any event, they are absolute.

          I think that brings me back to the point of this thread...When you do things right, things will fall into place where they need to...but you cant do it right unless someone shows you how, or you somehow learn it. To me this thread is an opportunity to help some who struggle because they never learned it right.

          The best way to bring people to your forum , without any outside JV help...is by referring them through a report.

          When a person gets a report from you, no matter how thorough, it spawns alot more questions, they can either go find out on their own, or if they are lucky as a leprechaun then someone is there to offer more guidance...and when thats there word spreads faster... Starting a forum, which can be done via smf and hostgaotr for less than 20 dollars, is a way to provide that post report guidance, and adds more value to what you offer, and ultimately creates a list for you on autopilot.

          You see Im sharing here in the WF and maybe a few people are joining , who knows...but if I share on my own forum, then anyone who wants to particpate has to log in, and they cant log in without going onto my mailing list.

          So its way to build somewhat of an automated list just for hanging out in your own forum all day and releasing a free 10 page report here and there that leads people to your forum for post report support.

          Im not sure anything could be simpler than that.
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          • Profile picture of the author Lance K
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            The best way to bring people to your forum , without any outside JV help...is by referring them through a report.
            And you could even refer them through a report WITH the help of JV partners.
            Signature
            "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
            ~ Zig Ziglar
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  • Profile picture of the author Wade32
    Lot of information to process here. This took a long time to read! Thanks John for breaking this down. I get really sick of the same old generic answers on how to boost a forums postings, members, money, etc.

    Good to see someone who knows what they are talking about actually post some help on here!
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  • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
    What would be some advice for starting separate forums for specific neighborhoods? The challenge is it limits users to those of the neighborhood to discuss neighborhood specific issues. So I'd need a way for the forum to be sticky for 50-500 users(size of neighborhood).
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    In a moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing. The worst thing you can do is nothing. ~ Theodore Roosevelt

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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by NewParadigm View Post

      What would be some advice for starting separate forums for specific neighborhoods? The challenge is it limits users to those of the neighborhood to discuss neighborhood specific issues. So I'd need a way for the forum to be sticky for 50-500 users(size of neighborhood).
      You can set your forum up to where people have to wait to be approved for posting if you like.

      Once, at least with SMF, a forum is uploaded its pretty easy even for a newby to get in and mess with the permissions and settings. Its easier to upload and set up an SMF forum than it is even to design a static web site. I dont have the link but a good place to start is SMF for newby's. My forum is still SMF and I dont see the need to change that.... It only costs $4.95 USD for an SMF template, then you just FTP it to your domain...and once its up you can easily get in and manipulate the boards and permissions...

      Trust me, Im as non techy as they come, and I do hire designers and programmers these days for more advanced stuff, but the basic set up is easy for almost anyone... Really the first month or two I just used it as is with no mods or logo's or banners, and people were still going crazy with the participation...

      In fact, as I updated them and talked about my plans and dreams for the forum, they felt like they were part of the process and it didnt make me look un prepared, it made THEM want to be a part of the exciting growth rather, and they took personal ownership in it in a sense because they were a part of the creative process with me...getting in on the ground floor.... People in my first group of 100 were even offering to donate their services to help with graphics... most of them are still there today as devout as ever.

      On another note, the way to get those people feeling that way is to give them your BEST in a 10n page report, that will excite them....and you can ingratiate their loyalty by telling them the truth... Im putting this up for the specific purpose of helping those who got my report and offering an ongoing support system for them as they grow with the ideas...so they wont be alone.

      People will appreciate that and support your cause.

      If you think about the things Im saying, they are just the things you already knbow inwardly, and they are the FAST track to success, but somehow people think its a longer road?

      Not at all, its only as long as however long it takes you to create a report that will excite some people and release it... Its not a long road. If you ask me managing 12 profiles seems like alot more work and alot less fun.

      Last note,

      Guys this didnt happen because I have any kind of special silver spoon. It can happen for you too, the key is SHARING... They key is SHARING!

      Not so "deep" an answer I guess, but be generous in your report. Dont be afraid that if you give your best nuiggets there will be nothing left to give. Once you start your forum you will know there is a TON more you can give.

      The best advice is to give your very best nugs UP FRONT....and that is what will draw people to your report.

      If you give your best for free, they will wonder "Wow, I wonder what he CHARGES for"

      And guess what?

      The peripheral knowledge you share on the outskirts of your best nugget will be the keys that help them make the nuigget work, and they are just as valuable. You will find people asking questions that you didnt even think of, and if you know your subject, there will NEVER be a time when you are given out and you can no longer help people....Dont be afraid to put your BEST up front. Dont be afraid there will be nothing left to sell after that, because people will buy YOU!
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    For more than 2 years I have told anyone who will listen, "John D walks the walk, he doesn't just talk the talk"....Reading through this thread confirms that again. It's like he cuts open a vein and bleeds his personal story on the page, every time (warts and all). And there is so much to learn from him.

    Love him or hate him, they don't make many like him!

    ...and I am in the 'love him' camp.
    _____
    Bruce
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Bruce NewMedia View Post

      For more than 2 years I have told anyone who will listen, "John D walks the walk, he doesn't just talk the talk"....Reading through this thread confirms that again. It's like he cuts open a vein and bleeds his personal story on the page, every time (warts and all). And there is so much to learn from him.

      Love him or hate him, they don't make many like him!

      ...and I am in the 'love him' camp.
      _____
      Bruce

      Ditto Bruce. Same back atcha man.

      I dont want to capitalize on such beautiful sentiments but you know me so... I want to say siomething to help people here.

      "Bleeding out" your honest truth, if you have something worth sharing... is not something that only "special" people can do. ANYONE CAN TYPE THEIR GENUINE KNOWLEDGE AND SHARE AUTHENTICALLY.

      You dont need a special talent, and Im telling you....There are some things that you may or may not be sure of, but you can ALWAYS tell genuine enthusiasm, because it doesnt sound like ad copy. Its just a truly excited person.

      If you are excited about your ideas, then forget everyone around you, forget looking "cool and collected", forget whether or not you use good language or sound intelligent to yourself- JUST SPEAK YOUR TRUE FEELINGS.

      Anyone can do that. Im saying this Bruce because you just said some mighty special words and I appreciate the heck out of them and you know I feel the same back- but I dont want anyone to think that I have some special gift for this. Read this thread and you will see an 8th grade drop out just talking about what he knows, with typos and mis spellings and all that jazz...it doesnt matter.

      Be real, and people will recognize that.
      If you are NOT real, they may not recognize it, but it may feel unclear. They may take a chance on you, but if you ARE being real the the weight of your words will carry its own merit and energy, and people will trust you above someone who seems more intelligent, because you are not trying to be pretentious, and it comes across.

      No special talent required.

      The only hang up for some will be that they arent sure they have anything to offer... but I know a person who makes 800k per year selling organic cloth diapers from their living room, and they dont know anything about anything else, but they know how to make cloth diapers and they know all the reasons that organic ones are better... and they cant talk very convincingly about adsense but they can open their mouth and NEVER STOP talking about cloth diapers.

      A few years ago that [person would have told me that they had nothing to offer... now they make more than I do and know hardly anything about marketing. lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialmassmedia
    Hi John, I just read through your post and that is some serious solid rocking genuine help hence the reason you made what you did with your own forum. It reminds me of what Gary Vaynerchuk see my post about him.

    People easily give up and dont want to hustle for long periods of time. If you dont enjoy it especially it becomes so much harder harder for you and then you need a very strong driving force, motivation or stong work ethic to keep you going.

    Hamed
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  • Profile picture of the author socialmassmedia
    John Just read this part post post 35

    "The only hang up for some will be that they arent sure they have anything to offer... but I know a person who makes 800k per year selling organic cloth diapers from their living room, and they dont know anything about anything else, but they know how to make cloth diapers and they know all the reasons that organic ones are better... and they cant talk very convincingly about adsense but they can open their mouth and NEVER STOP talking about cloth diapers.

    A few years ago that [person would have told me that they had nothing to offer... now they make more than I do and know hardly anything about marketing. lol."

    So true if you do what you love or do the only thing you know you will find a way to get it monetized sooner or later.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vorsiedious
    Wow...now I feel bad.
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    My blogs: Funny Jokes • Blogger Guide • Video Game Blog

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    • Profile picture of the author AmazonGenius
      This is great advice and we will be using it for our AmazonGenius forum. Thanks for the insight and if any of you need tips selling on Amazon, you know who to ask!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author tunity
    John Durham, many thanks for writing this post. You have just given me over 5-10 tips of scaling my forum up and making it better.

    I currently have a niche forum in the "make money" niche for a specific country, and i tend to do most of the postings on there.

    I reckon the reason is because most of my suscribers are newbies learning to run an internet business in "this country".

    What would be your advice to engage these members...to get them talking, discussing, creating their own mini groups within the forum etc.

    Also, would you be kind enough to share your forum domain please. kindly PM me, as i would like to join.

    Your words are GOLD...and I am no taking them lightly...
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  • Profile picture of the author Shubh Ashish
    Is there any Product made on This topic on building your own forum ?
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    Sell Dreams, Not Products
    - Steve Jobs
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by shubhashish View Post

      Is there any Product made on This topic on building your own forum ?
      I dont know, but I believe I am thinking of maybe creating one next week....
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    Is there any Product made on This topic on building your own forum ?
    I dont know, but I believe I am thinking of maybe creating one next week....
    free > download at the top

    http://www.topadmin.net/

    paid

    Managing Online Forums: Everything You Need to Know to Create and Run Successful Community Discussion Boards

    free

    http://monetizingonlineforums.com/
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    | > Choosing to go off the grid for a while to focus on family, work and life in general. Have a great 2020 < |
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