5 Arguments for the Case for Using Pen Names

It is just because they want to protect their personal information. But, I think it does not matter anyway because the most important thing is the quality of a person. Not the pen names.

It'd be interesting to see if you can put your finger on it. Do you think that feeling comes from your personal upbringing and the way you did things in your community, or is it something else?

And, certainly, if the marketer is giving good help, good information and/or results in others making money, eh?

Ok, but just imagine such a scenario. Would it be more thrilling if Ashley just showed up to try to put out the fire, or if "Super Bakerman!!" came to the rescue?

And a brilliant one! Indeed, if someone did a Google search on your name and found it in the resource box of about 800 articles -- all having nothing in common -- that could look pretty weird... i guess it would come down to whether or not a significant number of people would even bother to do such a search or whether your revenue is generated by a less diligent group of people. Thanks...!

IMHO you make a great point, having your name on tons of articles from multiple niches could and most likely would diminish the perception of you as the expert in a respective niche.

I mean think about it why is it that you very rarely ever see any of the so-called IM gurus with their name on anything other than the how to make money stuff they are hawking? :confused:

To a Great '09
Matt

I think you've got a tremendous opportunity there, though. I think you might be underestimating the DRAW a woman could have on tool-hungry men. Any chance some of those guys get to interact with, or be around, a woman, is a breath of fresh air to them.

You could say, "Think a woman don't know tools? Then come on down and try me." The subtle implications of "try me" will see a flood of new business coming in the door. Just make sure your husband is there to guard you. Sex sells... and it doesn't have to be low-class... but just a tiny drop will do.

What about creating a "tough-as-nails" female persona. Remember Rosy the Riveter?

I'm perfectly willing to agree that there are any number of reasons for using a pen name. In an environment such as this where you might want someone to take you seriously, make personal or business decisions based on your advice or maybe even JV with you.... you'll probably want to use your real name. Before you point out an example.... using a well established and branded Trade Name that can be tracked back to either an individual or company would work just as well.

Re: MichaelHiles, Ryan Even, Michael Oksa, Chris Grable, ThinkRich:

Apparently, it only serves you one purpose but, as you see below, there are those with safety concerns and other reasons for using a moniker.

No, probably not, but you just pulled the classic case of using an extreme example to justify your point. What if the moniker was TODD RICHIE and his stock tip contained some well-researched advice that was verifiable? As we know, even people who use their REAL names have given injurious stock tips/advice. What matters, moniker or not, is if you're known for being entertaining and giving good, verifiable advice.

Tell it to Paul Myers, below. Apparently, he thinks it's "hiding" and that there's a trade-off.

I think, in your eagerness to play "white knight", you overlooked the fact that I wasn't presuming anything. I had just pointed out her presumption which is clear and evident as she literally states "so in this example the company has potentially alienated 1/2 of it's market."

Yea, why don't you show me a sample to the point where it matters.

This is what happens when someone gets too bogged down in theory. While there are exceptions, human nature is what it is. Just like the first point in your reply had nothing to do with the topic and everything to do with playing "hero"...

While it might be hard for you to believe that I'm not saying this to be rude, my question is, "Who cares?" The guy is making millions. Only greedy dreamers who haven't made a fraction of that have the luxury of sitting in forums wondering about how much money guys like Bob Parsons are letting slip through their fingers.

Michael, are you for real? What you just said is true about everything.

"There are reasons to use high performance car tires... but they're not for everyone, either. There are just as many reasons to use non-high performance tires. It doesn't make tire customers right or wrong, it just means they have different reasons for the tires they chose."

Well, you ended on a good note but it seems you don't realize that you started off your comment as if you were looking for a fight. I don't go looking for them but I don't care for it, either. Maybe we can start over...

The question is, how does anyone know whether you're using a pen name or not anyways? There's a very lazy, general way that people assume someone is alright to work with and it has nothing to do with using one's real name. After all, how many people do you suspect have verified, for themselves, whether or not Mike Filsaime's real name is Mike Filsaime... or whether they just take it for granted because so many others seem to trust him?

What about Bernie Madhoff? He used his real name. And he had a lot of people who trusted him. In my opinion, still, reputation and trust have nothing to do with using one's real name. It has more to do with having a savvy ability to connect with just enough of the right people and those associations will start to work just fine. Didn't the kinds of people in our field rave about "The Tipping Point"? It was about "mavens, connectors and salespeople"... it said nothing about using one's real name.

You must be talking about "Michael Green" who is also, allegedly, a member of Parliament.

Nice guy. A little too much starch in his shirts, but a nice guy.

Fair point. That's why I said that they only applied to forums. It's called "topic drift." I'm prone to it, like most people.

As far as the risk being tiny, it is. Look at those stats, and tell me what percentage of total business users of the web they represent, and what percentage of those are the result of contact with strangers while doing business online.

I didn't say the risk was non-existent. Just that people should consider it from a realistic perspective, and weigh the costs. I think that's a sensible recommendation. Yes, I really do use my real name. There are plenty of people here who know that to be a fact, as far as that's possible. There are people here who've sent me checks in that name which have been cashed, and people who've found my phone number in the book by looking it up under that name. To fake that, I'd have had to set up a corporation with a fake name prior to 1995, which is when I first encountered some of the folks in this group. Hardly worth the trouble, since it wouldn't hide me from anything.

The "cult" thing is funny. Some like me, some hate me, and most don't care either way. I've been here for around 10 years, and been consistent over that time. That engenders a bit of trust, yes. If you want to know why, ask some of the real old-timers in the joint.

But "cult-like?" Might seem that way to someone who's been here for all of 9 days, I suppose.

As far as the numbers, that's based on experience. 10 years here, and 22 years overall experience moderating almost every kind of electronic forum you can name. BBSs, Usenet newsgroups, Fidonet echoes, email discussion lists, and web-based forums for the most part.

Note that I didn't say anything was impossible. Simply that one way creates more difficulties than the other. "Possible" is a dangerous word, especially for people who don't have the experience to judge probabilities with any degree of accuracy or any basis in experience.

The fact that a person has opinions on the subject does not necessarily mean that those opinions have any resemblance to processes as they occur in the real world.

That's something most people who've been moderators here at one point or another have found out the hard way. What they thought went on often turned out to be very different from the reality. And those were folks with lots of experience with this specific forum.

Note also that I said the costs can be significant. If you don't believe that's possible, you're quite thoroughly misinformed. I've seen it. I know what they can be. I would bet that it mattered very much. You'd have to ask Kelly, but I suspect that a lot of the bigger names who promoted his stuff would not have done so if he'd been completely anonymous. Ah. If one has strong feelings on a subject, one's logic is not to be trusted?

That's absurd. If you want to refute the content of the arguments, go for it. You'll fail, but you're welcome to try.

The fact that I am disgusted by the behavior that is so often hidden behind screen names, by cowards with monitor muscles, is not a flaw, in my opinion.

And no, that statement was not, in any way, directed at you. You're discussing a point. I'm talking about active and malicious abuse, which is a very different thing.

I don't know how much experience you have with discussion forums online. I can tell you from my experience that the worst abuses are almost always perpetrated by people using screen names or fake names. The latter can be harder to spot and deal with, but they're much, much less common.

What I'm telling you here is not theory. It's fact. It's how things work in the digital world. I'd like it to be different, but my preferences don't change reality.

Oh. Just for fun, Google the phrase:

Paul Myers copywriter

Yeah. Those are me. Please continue to teach me what copywriters do, though. I'm sure I could profit from your sage instruction.

And yes, I do indeed think very highly of people in general, and most people in specific. To say that people are generally rational does not in any way deny the fact that emotions drive them. If you don't understand the balance there, I wrote a book that explains a big chunk of it. I can give you a copy, if you like. I made observations on his observed and documented behavior. The person with whom I was talking knows the guy, and told me that was his reason for using a screen name. So, yeah. I'm talking about actual facts.

Your argument can't "remain" valid, since it was never valid in the first place. Do you see me refusing to continue the discussion? I can take anything you've got to throw, sir. And a lot that you'll never have. This ain't my first rodeo. Forums, remember?

You can use a pen name outside a forum, a real name in the forum, and still write about your adventures under pen names.

And, if you're not selling in the forums, you can still use pen names and write about those. Irrelevant to my comment. The people in question are required to think in both mindsets, which quite possibly demonstrates more mental flexibility than you've just claimed for yourself.

By the way, another thing that copywriters do: They learn to think like other people. Almost any kind of other people. It's part of the craft, and one of the more useful skills for dealing with humans in general. I recommend it highly.


Paul

Yes, of course there is... it should be something attention-grabbing and relevant to your intended audience. You'd have to do a little market research so you can understand what they need and what they can tolerate.

Well, Hugh is a catchy, easy-to-pronounce, easy-to-remember, easy-going name. It feels right to hear it. Good reminder, too, on what Allen said... using a persona, or pen name, isn't "hiding" as some people suggest, it's actually "coming out"... sometimes, one just needs a bit of relief from the negative messages associated with one's lifelong self-image by adopting a pen-name image. Thx...

You know what's funny, John Jacob? His name is my name, too! But I think you can change your last name to "MatchKey" and it will be "Catch-ey"... try it!

Hi Michael,

Thanks for taking my reply in stride. I know you meant not harm but something odd was beginning to happen in the FRAME of the conversation and it would have been a drag to try explaining it. There was just a minorly adversarial ring to it all and I was hoping we could stay friends (that's why I haven't even replied to Paul Myers most recent reply, also).

It's important, I believe, to make a distinction between what those reasons are for YOU and what those reasons are for THEM and what those reasons are for someone who wishes to make a living online both in, and out, of forums. Some of those reasons might overlap but what you like might be well outside the realm of what is needed for a person to make money.

I understand, and, of course everyone is entitled to his opinions and preferences. When I communicate, though, I tend to think in terms of necessity as in "what is needed to accomplish my goals" or "what is needed for each to reach his goals" and, often times, my preferences are not only not necessary but are, often times, counter-productive...

...even though I am entitled to them.

Thanks, Michael... ERIC