Sell or Give Away to Make More $$$

7 replies
Hey folks,

This is probably gonna sound like a dumb question, but can you make more $$ giving stuff away or selling it?

Let me explain.

I've got a site in the martial arts fitness niche. I've got several (90+ free articles) on my site, and a few products. I have an opt-in with a free 13-page report on the main page. The main page is also where I have the ad copy for my main product - a continuity program, which I've just launched.

To create (to use a Frank Kern line) 'interest & desire' in my product/site/myself, I went about creating another freebie. I've been told on many occasions that I have a way of taking concepts related to working out and putting them into simple, easy to understand language - something everybody 'gets' (esp considering so many trainers in the fitness industry in general try to make themselves sound smart b/c smart = 'worth more' = 'charge more').

Well, I was gonna put together a sort of cliff-notes version of what I knew about training - putting it into simple, easy to understand language.

I sat down to do this yesterday, and after just one section (of at least 7-8 I had planned to write) I had roughly 19 typed pages of single-spaced info. Whoa - that's a lot more than I thought it was going to be.

And then I had an idea that maybe I should just sell the book, and give away a couple chapters.

Basically, my two options (as I see them - please feel free to suggest alternatives):

--write the book, and give the whole thing away. Give it away to my opt-ins, and try to give it to as many other sites that will take it, so that they can, in turn, give it to their lists, use it as free bonus for their products, have it as a free download on their site, etc. This gets me no $$ up front, but turns into honestly one of the best freebies of it's kind available in the niche/industry. This would, in turn, hopefully generate massive amounts of reciprocity and people come to my site to join my continuity program.

(The book tells them all elements of fitness training, and how to do them, but not really how to put them all together. My continuity product is, along with a bunch of freebies, monthly workouts incorporating all the elements of this book.)

--sell the book. Give away say two chapters of the book to whet the appetite for the rest of the book. Then, sell the book as a one time sale, with forced continuity into my 'micro-membership' product (which, of course, they can cancel at any time). As stated above, the book is the intro information, but the continuity gives them the actual workouts to use.

I make more money b/c I now get sales I normally wouldn't get from people who are afraid of the continuity product, but will purchase on a one-time basis. I've also read that forced continuity has a lot more success in terms of signups than people joining a continuity program from the beginning.

(NOTE - my continuity program has a ton of freebies - it's not just the workouts themselves)

Now, I know every situation is different, and that there are 'x-factors' in every scenario, but in a general sense, which of the above scenarios generally results in the most revenue - esp in the short term (as I'm dealing with monthly bill money here - I can't afford for something to take 6 months to develop)?

If I hadn't read some of Frank Kern's stuff that suggests the former was such a good model, I'd just jump straight-away to the latter. But, I'm still a relative noob to IM, too.

All feedback welcome. Thanks.
#$$$ #give #make #sell
  • Profile picture of the author BizBoost
    It's 9am here, and I'm not yet in the mood to think (havent had coffee) but I'll give you my initial impressions. But, first, a question...

    Would you make more money selling a whole deer you just bagged? Or would you make more money by carving it up into all its various pieces and selling them separately? Some people who'd pay big bucks for the antlers won't care a whit about the hide or meat, and vice-a-versa...

    So, here's a quick outline of how I'd slice it...

    1. Rebrandable Freebie Guide w/links back to your ebook - 10 Ways to Achieve..., 14 Things Every X Must Know About... 12 Ways to Overcome...

    2. Ebook split into 2+ parts -

    2a. 1st Part sold as a standalone ebook;
    2b. 2nd Part sold as a series of weekly lessons in a membership area that also contains a growing cache of articles;
    2c. Upsell 2b with video demonstrations on how certain things are done.

    3. Coaching programs, limited number of students via conference call will follow up each conference with mp3 (have it transcribed for another ebook later) and a few optional videos of some things discussed (all these things can go in a later book or home study program).

    4. Home Study program with unlimited email follow-up for a year and special forum area for students to help one another

    This should get some juices flowin'... let me know if you have any questions.

    Eric
    ps. Take it easy on the first-person shooter games, ya "noob"...


    2c.
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    • Profile picture of the author Wiggy0618
      Hey Eric,

      Thanks for the feedback - I like the flow of all that. Let me follow up w/a couple more questions, and make it kinda how I would do it specifically (this helps me understand it a little better)...

      Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

      2. Ebook split into 2+ parts -

      2a. 1st Part sold as a standalone ebook;
      2b. 2nd Part sold as a series of weekly lessons in a membership area that also contains a growing cache of articles;
      2c. Upsell 2b with video demonstrations on how certain things are done.
      Let me make sure I understand you on this - I sell the standalone ebook (step 2a), with automatic inclusion ('forced continuity') into Step 2b, right? (Of course, they can cancel at any time.) And Step 2b would me the monthly workouts I have (my continuity program) now, right? If they're interested in the video demonstrations, I do a video of each workout for the month, and members get that for an additional $XX/month (Step 2c). Am I on the right track?

      Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

      3. Coaching programs, limited number of students via conference call will follow up each conference with mp3 (have it transcribed for another ebook later) and a few optional videos of some things discussed (all these things can go in a later book or home study program).
      This could be personally designed programs (instead of the program everybody uses, I design a program specifically for each individual, based on the needs of that person, using the same principles I used in designing the workouts available in Step 2a), right?

      As a part of my continuity program (Step 2a), I have a monthly newsletter and a monthly audio seminar (was looking to seriously over-deliver). Instead of an audio seminar (will be a downloadable mp3 or the like), this could be an actual conference call - a Q&A kinda thing where we can all interact. Am I on the right path?

      Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

      4. Home Study program with unlimited email follow-up for a year and special forum area for students to help one another
      Hmm...this one I'd have to think about how I'd want to implement it. This would take more work on my part to come up with something, simply b/c I still want to be giving ultimate value to the customer (I want to over-deliver on *everything*), and not just look for a way to bilk them out of more $$$. Given what I'd be doing above, I'd have to think on this.

      I've had a few people suggest I should have my own certifications - I guess that could fit here. I just hate the idea of most fitness certifications (it's a pet peeve of mine - a whole other topic).

      The great thing about this is that once I get done with the book, I can implement (assuming I understand you correctly) Steps 1, 2a, and 2b going right away. While I'm doing that, I can work on the content needed for Step 2c, and working on upselling once that's ready. Really, I could even start Step 3 right away, too.

      Let me know if anything I've said looks out of line or it should be changed. I *really* appreciate all the help!

      Oh...and I don't really like first-person shooters. I'm more into 3rd person action games... :-)
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      • Profile picture of the author BizBoost
        Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

        Hey Eric,

        Thanks for the feedback
        You're welcome.

        Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

        Let me make sure I understand you on this - I sell the standalone ebook (step 2a), with automatic inclusion ('forced continuity') into Step 2b, right? (Of course, they can cancel at any time.) And Step 2b would be the monthly workouts I have (my continuity program) now, right? If they're interested in the video demonstrations, I do a video of each workout for the month, and members get that for an additional /month (Step 2c). Am I on the right track?
        Almost. I'm not recommending "forced" continuity. Your crowd is different from the internet marketing wanna-be crowd who tend to buy all kinds of things they don't need just because a) everyone else is, and b) the ad copy is good, etc..

        Your ebook (and follow up emails) is what should point people to the workouts. The first one should be free and then, only if they want it, should there be forced continuity -- e.g. paypal subscription with first workout/instructional free.

        Once they've signed up for the workouts, you can upsell the video series on the thank you page (so as to not interrupt the sale) for an extra $10/lesson.

        At this point, they have:

        1. A free rebrandable tip guide;
        2. An ebook with offers for lesson series (first one free);
        3. Same ebook with reminder to check out the blog;
        4. A lesson series which, once ordered, upsells a $10/lesson video accompaniment;
        5. If lesson series rejected then immediate downsell of lesson series PLUS video accompaniment for same price but no first month free.

        (you create the general lesson series and all the workout videos in advance of everything so the whole thing is automated and all you need is payment and then to get them to the right place)

        Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

        This could be personally designed programs (instead of the program everybody uses, I design a program specifically for each individual, based on the needs of that person, using the same principles I used in designing the workouts available in Step 2a), right?
        This is where you need to be careful. You can always play "local business owner" once the money is rolling in but it's not time-efficient for online marketing.

        You can TRY whatever you like - it's your business and you have to live with it but the point I'm making is that not everyone WANTS that private/personal coaching program from the start. In my opinion, everything we've discussed so far should take the form of a useful, necessary BUT general series. You get personalized LATER as a higher cost item... but the MAJORITY of people coming to you aren't intending to, or excited about, spending 100s or 1000s of dollars. You have to gently coax them.

        Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

        As a part of my continuity program (Step 2a), I have a monthly newsletter and a monthly audio seminar (was looking to seriously over-deliver). Instead of an audio seminar (will be a downloadable mp3 or the like), this could be an actual conference call - a Q&A kinda thing where we can all interact. Am I on the right path?
        You can make the products at various stages whatever you want. Theoretically, there might be some perfect progression of offers but as long as each offering is properly valued and leads to the next, you're on the right track.

        Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

        Hmm...this one I'd have to think about how I'd want to implement it. This would take more work on my part to come up with something, simply b/c I still want to be giving ultimate value to the customer (I want to over-deliver on *everything*), and not just look for a way to bilk them out of more $$$. Given what I'd be doing above, I'd have to think on this.
        If you give them what they WANT, you'll already be delivering OVER what many people deliver. You're free to add a flourish in there...an unexpected surprise, but when you start throwing everything but the kitchen sink at them, they can get overwhelmed. There was a time when everyone threw in like 37 ebooks in bonus packages and all it spelled was "CRAP"... people just want what they WANT... and a nice extra little surprise or bonus is ok I just wouldn't go overboard.

        Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

        I've had a few people suggest I should have my own certifications - I guess that could fit here. I just hate the idea of most fitness certifications (it's a pet peeve of mine - a whole other topic).
        To me, it'd be cheesy to do online. That isn't to say some eccentric person wouldn't want such a certification but there's so much more you can do that it just strikes me as unnecessary and, frankly, odd.

        Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

        The great thing about this is that once I get done with the book, I can implement (assuming I understand you correctly) Steps 1, 2a, and 2b going right away. While I'm doing that, I can work on the content needed for Step 2c, and working on upselling once that's ready. Really, I could even start Step 3 right away, too.
        Ok, let's quickly go over this again:

        You want it ALL done ahead of time. Get it ALL laid out like dominoes.

        1. Free Rebrandable Report -- leads to...
        2. Ebook Pt 1, Sample Workout perhaps -- leads to
        3. Free First Lesson with Lesson Series Subscription...
        4. Upsell Videos on Thank You Page; (offers on video pages, follow up emails and members area for...)
        5. Group Coaching (webinars) where you go over the lessons, answer questions in a Webinar each week, follow up with MP3 download and transcript;
        6. PERSONALIZED COACHING... this will be most expensive but it will be highly tailored to the individual.

        Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

        Let me know if anything I've said looks out of line or it should be changed. I *really* appreciate all the help!

        Oh...and I don't really like first-person shooters. I'm more into 3rd person action games... :-)
        Ah, well, your ease of use with the term "noob" tipped me off to somethin'... we used to use it regularly in online gaming but never meant it as a true insult.

        Anyways, everything I've written above is not intended to be a SPECIFIC program. It's meant to give you an idea as to how you can split some things up and include value-added services and backend sales, etc to create multiple streams of income... some residual.

        You can actually spin it any way you want but that's a general idea to work with.

        Hope it serves you well,
        Eric
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        • Profile picture of the author Wiggy0618
          Eric - once again, thanks a ton. This is starting to become more clear, and I'm getting a better idea of how I can integrate these ideas with what I already have setup (as I do have some customers to my continuity program already).

          A little more follow up, if you don't mind (I like to make sure I completely understand things - esp since I don't know IM as well as I need to)...

          Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

          Your crowd is different from the internet marketing wanna-be crowd who tend to buy all kinds of things they don't need just because a) everyone else is, and b) the ad copy is good, etc..
          FINALLY somebody has said this. I've been studying IM for a while now (obviously with less than stellar results), and I've had this real gut feeling that a lot of what I was reading was IM info from IMers to other IMers - esp about selling IM products...again to other IMers. I just wasn't seeing much in the way of "Here's some great IM info, and here is how this dude who has a (insert favorite non-IM topic/niche here) website has made some bank with it."

          I had a gut feeling there was a difference in how a lot of this IM info I was reading would be applied outside of the IM world.

          This is the kind of info I need! ;-)

          Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

          Your ebook (and follow up emails) is what should point people to the workouts. The first one should be free and then, only if they want it, should there be forced continuity -- e.g. paypal subscription with first workout/instructional free.
          Ok - here is what I had originally been thinking. The book is fitness info, but not enough (necessarily) to put together your own complete programs. It has a section on all areas of fitness, and tells how to train them individually. The section on program design has some real basic info, but will still be kinda...vague (for lack of a better term). At the end of the book, there is a real soft-sell mention of my monthly workout programs.

          I had originally planned that when you buy the book, you get a month free of the continuity program. Then, you're automatically enrolled in the paid version of the continuity. If you don't want it, cancel whenever you like. (It'd be done through paypal, and this is pretty easy). Don't over-promote the fee for the continuity program. I've seen this done several times before. "Buy XYZ now, and get a month of ABC free!" Then, you see (not necessarily in 'fine print' per se, but somewhere in the order process) that after the month free, you're automatically enrolled in the continuity program, but there is 'no obligation', you can 'cancel at any time', etc.

          The continuity program has several freebies (for use with the workouts and such) up front - you'd get that with the free month. Then you start paying.

          But, you're advising to *not* have forced continuity. Instead, sell the book, and point people to the continuity. Offer a free month, then they pay.

          I kinda know how people in this niche/industry (whatever you want to call it) think. They'll read the book, and then email the hell out of me asking for help on how to design a program.

          Quick example - a buddy of mine has a very thorough book on kind of the same subject, only his is more technical (my book is purposefully going to be written for the 'regular guy' who just wants to understand everything w/o feeling like he's reading a textbook). His idea w/the book was to "teach a man how to fish" (so-to-speak). At the end of the book, he gives a sample plan that lasts roughly 8 weeks. His goal was for people to use that sample plan as an example, and then, using the info that was in the book, develop their own programs.

          What's the most common question I've seen asked of him? "What do I do after I'm done with the sample plan?"

          See what I mean?

          So, what if I sell the book, and give them one free month of the continuity program - sans freebies. Then, try to sell them on the paid version of the continuity program. Now they'll get the freebies and such. No free trial, though - you get that with the book.

          Then, that gives people a reason for going ahead and purchasing the paid programs, too.


          Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

          1. A free rebrandable tip guide;
          Dumb question - how does this work? I put together a guide/blog post/ebook/whatever, give it away, and let others put their name/logo on it to give away on their site? How does that end up pulling in traffic for/to me? I don't get how that works...

          Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

          You can TRY whatever you like - it's your business and you have to live with it but the point I'm making is that not everyone WANTS that private/personal coaching program from the start. In my opinion, everything we've discussed so far should take the form of a useful, necessary BUT general series. You get personalized LATER as a higher cost item...
          I agree. Honestly, I'm not that into doing personalized stuff. Unless I'm getting paid *really* well for it, it takes up too much time. And how I've positioned myself thus far (in addition to addressing the martial arts crowd) is to appeal to the 'regular guy', b/c that's what I am myself. No hype, no crap, no gimmicks, no overpriced XYZ - just real info that works. And personalized stuff - to make it worth my while - has to be expensive.

          *shrug*

          Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

          ...but when you start throwing everything but the kitchen sink at them, they can get overwhelmed. There was a time when everyone threw in like 37 ebooks in bonus packages and all it spelled was "CRAP"... people just want what they WANT... and a nice extra little surprise or bonus is ok I just wouldn't go overboard.
          I hear you. I always thought all the 'bonus' stuff was kind of a crazy idea, anyway, for 2 reasons - 1 - if ABC bonus has a 'value' of $(insert price here), how come nobody is actually *selling* it for that much, and 2 - if your product is really good, why do you need all this tag along stuff (which may or may not be worth a damn) to sweeten the deal?

          Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

          To me, it'd be cheesy to do online. That isn't to say some eccentric person wouldn't want such a certification but there's so much more you can do that it just strikes me as unnecessary and, frankly, odd.
          I wouldn't do it online. People would actually have to travel to me and I'd hold a seminar. It's a lot more common than you'd think in this industry. There are more BS certifications than you can shake a stick at. That's one of the reasons I'd never do one - b/c they're BS.

          Thanks again for all your help - this has been some truly invaluable info!
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          • Profile picture of the author BizBoost
            Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

            Eric - once again, thanks a ton. This is starting to become more clear, and I'm getting a better idea of how I can integrate these ideas with what I already have setup (as I do have some customers to my continuity program already).

            A little more follow up, if you don't mind (I like to make sure I completely understand things - esp since I don't know IM as well as I need to)...
            I don't mind a little more but it is becoming a bit of a brain drain because I'm more verbal/auditory than visual/reading so it's starting to become difficult to keep track of everything.

            Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

            FINALLY somebody has said this. I've been studying IM for a while now (obviously with less than stellar results), and I've had this real gut feeling that a lot of what I was reading was IM info from IMers to other IMers - esp about selling IM products...again to other IMers.

            (cut)

            I had a gut feeling there was a difference in how a lot of this IM info I was reading would be applied outside of the IM world.

            This is the kind of info I need! ;-)
            I understand. That's the thing with IM...many IM'ers know of this phenomenon but they don't mention it. It's like a secret that everyone knows but pretends to not know.

            Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

            Ok - here is what I had originally been thinking. The book is fitness info, but not enough (necessarily) to put together your own complete programs. It has a section on all areas of fitness, and tells how to train them individually. The section on program design has some real basic info, but will still be kinda...vague (for lack of a better term). At the end of the book, there is a real soft-sell mention of my monthly workout programs.
            Have an ad box with a soft-sell paragraph telling people to "Click Here to See If There Are Currently Any Specials to the Coaching Series", or something like that... have that ad box displayed once every 5-10 pages. You have to tell people to click and WHY all throughout the book. You can't assume they'll reach the end, or that they will actually do what you are telling them to do in the book.

            They all WANT the ultimate, they just do it in baby steps out of suspicion and it ends up costing them more. So encourage them to step up frequently by telling them to check and see if there's a great one-time deal happening (before it goes away) .

            Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

            I had originally planned that when you buy the book, you get a month free of the continuity program. Then, you're automatically enrolled in the paid version of the continuity. If you don't want it, cancel whenever you like. (It'd be done through paypal, and this is pretty easy). Don't over-promote the fee for the continuity program. I've seen this done several times before. "Buy XYZ now, and get a month of ABC free!" Then, you see (not necessarily in 'fine print' per se, but somewhere in the order process) that after the month free, you're automatically enrolled in the continuity program, but there is 'no obligation', you can 'cancel at any time', etc.
            You can do it that way. My way isn't the only way. I haven't tested it, though, so I can only hypothesize whether forcing people into a paid program is worth the risk of alienating them and making them FEEL forced... or whether it's better to continually drip them the benefits of signing up for a "first month free" subscription so they feel as if they are in the drivers seat the whole time.

            Which would you rather have around you anyways? A bunch of resentful, coerced mules who did what you made them do; or, a bunch of intelligent people who know what they want and take your suggestion and offer because it was a good one that was well-explained and presented?

            Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

            The continuity program has several freebies (for use with the workouts and such) up front - you'd get that with the free month. Then you start paying.

            But, you're advising to *not* have forced continuity. Instead, sell the book, and point people to the continuity. Offer a free month, then they pay.
            As above, it's your call. I would just prefer steadily, and eloquently, dripping people the benefits of a "first month free" subscription rather than pushing them into it.

            Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

            I kinda know how people in this niche/industry (whatever you want to call it) think. They'll read the book, and then email the hell out of me asking for help on how to design a program.
            Remember to use THEIR words when offering a solution, like, "How Do I design my own program?" or "How to Design Your Own Program In 25 Minutes or Less" etc.

            Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

            Quick example - a buddy of mine has a very thorough book on kind of the same subject, only his is more technical (my book is purposefully going to be written for the 'regular guy' who just wants to understand everything w/o feeling like he's reading a textbook). His idea w/the book was to "teach a man how to fish" (so-to-speak). At the end of the book, he gives a sample plan that lasts roughly 8 weeks. His goal was for people to use that sample plan as an example, and then, using the info that was in the book, develop their own programs.

            What's the most common question I've seen asked of him? "What do I do after I'm done with the sample plan?"

            See what I mean?
            Poor guy. See, if he had been presenting them with that information just prior to their finishing his sample, he wouldn't even need to be bothered.

            Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

            So, what if I sell the book, and give them one free month of the continuity program - sans freebies. Then, try to sell them on the paid version of the continuity program. Now they'll get the freebies and such. No free trial, though - you get that with the book.
            Ok, if you really want to get people in then you rip away bonuses, or suggest price increases, to create urgency, but never take away free trials. In any case, I think you have the basic idea.
            Then, that gives people a reason for going ahead and purchasing the paid programs, too.
            Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

            Dumb question - how does this work? I put together a guide/blog post/ebook/whatever, give it away, and let others put their name/logo on it to give away on their site? How does that end up pulling in traffic for/to me? I don't get how that works...
            You need a software rebrander program. It allows people to brand whatever you allow them to rebrand.

            They can brand a "This report is brought to you by:" link with their own site. And they can rebrand links back to your ebook site with their affiliate links if they want. But, most importantly, your links are all throughout... allowing them to rebrand is just giving them an incentive to give your report out... for traffic and potential referral sales.

            Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

            if your product is really good, why do you need all this tag along stuff (which may or may not be worth a damn) to sweeten the deal?
            Only when other marketers are selling a bunch of stuff and trying to sweet the deal should you bother with this to any great extent.

            Originally Posted by Wiggy0618 View Post

            Thanks again for all your help - this has been some truly invaluable info!
            Great! You're quite ambitious. And I wish you all the best!

            Eric
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  • Profile picture of the author nick1123
    If you want to make money in the short run then sell the product.

    If you're looking to create a long-term business and have people or you can advertise to over and over again then give the product away for free when they opt in to your list. I think this is by far the best option but it really depends on what you want.
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  • Profile picture of the author NealAshley
    I would write a report that whets their appetite for the book and continuity product. Rich Schefren is a master at this. His business was basically built around this model when he came out with his first business manifesto.

    Get opt-ins to receive the report obviously but I think that would work well.
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