What is 'hype?'

[GrantFreeman]

"How would you go about applying that in a real world setting?"

Continued..

4. P.O.S. (Point of sale): The product can detract from the credibility of the message long after it's been presented if:

A. You only care about making sales and not creating a product that helps people get what they want, and it's prominent in the backend. For example:

• Broken links to products or site pages
• Problems with payment processors like paypal or 2co that you have no control over
• Affiliate programs with no support or affiliate tools

5. Customer service: See what the competition is offering and megadeliver. Some people like stating "over deliver" but I like to always take it one step further. Every product I sell gets at least 1 related, unadvertised bonus product.

Sometimes I'll just throw in a product that's really great because I think they would least expect me to just give it away.

I've got products right now that are not perfect, but I sell them because for the majority, they work flawlessly. And for the people who have problems because of clitches I can't fix, or for some other reason, I make every effort to answer each support email within 24 hours.

6. If someone wants their money back. Give it to them. Regardless of how ridiculous the situation or reason. Ask why they are returning the product, but always let them know that you'd be happy to refund if they are not satisfied. In other words, honor your guarantee.

7. Your public exposure. Online forums, local events, shopping malls. Where ever you go, there you are. You're a product of the product, and part of it's message.

I think every one of these things can cause your target market to think your message was just "hype". By their definition only. Yours doesn't matter.

Grant

[Lewis Leake]

To paraphrase Dizzy Dean's famous quote ""It ain't braggin' if you can back it up."

It ain't hype if the product can do it!


Lewis

[Paul Myers]

Michael,

Why does using hype almost always increase sales?

Maybe defining terms will help.

Do you see what you did there?


Paul

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Do you see what you did there?

Paul,

Yes.

I asked a question and offered a suggestion.

It was a question about reality (almost a rhetorical question) and a suggestion for improving understanding between people in a discussion since I was unclear about your definition of one term (hype).

I am going on the assumption that intelligent discussion is sought.

A thought just crossed my mind. I am interested in understanding, but not so much in semantics. Defining terms helps move the discussion into the ideas and away from surface misunderstandings. I personally don't like dangling ambiguities, so I ask questions and speak my mind. It's honest thinking.

I offered two possible meanings for credibility in order to understand your definition of hype properly. Is there another meaning?

Michael

[Zachary R. Skinner]

Hype- Exaggerated claims or statements presented as factual information intended to persuade the reader to see things a certain way or make a certain decision. In the context of marketing, hype generally refers to misleading information that is distributed with the sole purposes increasing sales and profits.

In some ways, hype is not terribly different from propaganda and, in many respects, both kinds disinformation share striking similarities.

Hype differs from outright lies only in the sense that hype exaggerates the truth while outright lies may have no basis in fact whatsoever. Of course, at times, lies and hype can be difficult to distinguish from one another.


This is my definition!

[AntonioEaster]

HYPE...? What is HYPE? I believe hype, in the simplest form can be defined as over stating the truth.

However, Hype can also be defined according to a persons mind set. Just for an example...you or I may be a six-figure monthly income earner, and we are so excited...we flood the Internet with our success story. However, many people who are seeking a online business may come across our story, and place it in the "hype" category in their own minds. Simply because they are unable to wrap their minds around the idea of making $100,000 a month or more.

While a truly successful online marketer will stay away from hype, by stating facts and possibilities...they also clearly understand that "hype" is a friend to their business, in that it keeps those who are not qualified to work with them, from responding to their choice marketing Champaign...because those who are not of the proper mind set, will deem their success story as hype.

I guess at the end of the day...Hype = opinion

Antonio Easter
Get YOU To $10,000/mos. FAST!
http://www.squidoo.com/WealthMastersCCproBIB
http://www.ImpossibleToFail.info

[Paul Myers]

Michael,

The thing I was referring to is a bit on the subtle side.

I offered a working definition for the word hype. One that could be useful to copywriters and other developers of advertising creative.

The questions about credibility vs believability are interesting, in a word tweaking way, but they're different from what you did. Your "oops" was much more interesting and educational.

It's also really common when smart people get to discussing subjective definitional issues.

While discussing a suggested working definition for a specific word in a specific context, you found fault with it by assuming a different definition for the word.

That's not to say my working definition is better than your general definition. Not at all. I'm a firm believer in the advice of Frank Herbert, who said in one of his books that all definitions should be considered probationary.


Paul

[Josh Anderson]

Hype is artificial excitement.

Hyping is the activity of attempting to spread artificial excitement.

Getting hyped up is the absorption of hype for the purpose of getting a hype buzz for temporary relief from reality.

Here is a classic video showing all three elements of hype performed with sweaty arm pits by Steve Balmer:

YouTube - Developers

[Steven Wagenheim]

That's not to say my working definition is better than your general definition. Not at all. I'm a firm believer in the advice of Frank Herbert, who said in one of his books that all definitions should be considered probationary.

Which is why I don't read all these high brow books. I can't understand the
freakin Sunday comics why Ziggy is looking at the fish all weird when the
only thing he's doing is swimming around in a circle.

Don't all fish do that?

My head hurts when we start to get all analytical.

Me?

"Hey, buddy, wanna turn yourself into a <fill in the blank> expert? Get my
new book on <subject> and you'll be <fill in action> in no time at all.
Want proof? Look at <proof>"

So far, simple sh*t like this has worked very well for me.

Keep it simple, show them the credibility and then close the deal.

If I try to make it any more complicated than that, I get cramps in my
brain.

K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Steven)

Or as my wife says to me, "Honey, don't try to play Jeopardy when all
you're packing is an 8th grade mentality"

She is SOOOO right.

Hate that game.

[GrantFreeman]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

don't try to play Jeopardy when all
you're packing is an 8th grade mentality"

Got me beat by a year.

G

[Paul Myers]

Steven,

You're confusing knowledge with intelligence.


Paul

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Steven,

You're confusing knowledge with intelligence.


Paul

Yeah, well it also applies to another great saying of hers.

"Don't try to break up a fight in a bar between 7 drunk dudes when all you're
packing is a 6 gun."

Me? I'd flat out walk in unarmed.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

I offered a working definition for the word hype. One that could be useful to copywriters and other developers of advertising creative.

. . .

While discussing a suggested working definition for a specific word in a specific context, you found fault with it by assuming a different definition for the word.

. . .

... all definitions should be considered probationary.

Paul,

In reverse order,

3. LOL... Cool. I fully agree about the probationary part.

2. I was probably not clear. My intention was not to find fault, but examine the facets of an issue. The context you mentioned was not clear to me owing to the fact that there are many views and contexts presented on this thread and I read them in sequence. From that wealth of information, I merely looked at the only plausibilities I could imagine. I said OK to one and said the other was not consistent with what I have observed. In my mind I was discarding one and keeping the other.

As is typical with us human beings, I wrote more about the one I was discarding than the one I was keeping. (Busted!)

3. I see your quest is for practical value. That resonates deeply with me. I have a thought that might be useful for copywriters, but please take into account that it is offered with humility. I am a newbie, not a master, and I am fully aware that I have a lot to learn ahead. With that in mind, here is my best shot.

Hype is exaggeration of the benefit(s) of a product wedded to an emotional trigger and intended to induce a specific action in the audience.

As a definitional tool, that would be scalable, going from subtle hype (like the pretty girl next to the new car) on up to ridiculously obvious infomercial overkill and pandering. You could also have another scale, a quality scale, going from skillful hype on one end on up to outright crap on the other. Another scale could go from honesty to dishonesty.

Maybe a good copywriter can come up with better words or a better sounding phrase. It certainly does not please my ear in that form. It is accurate to my intent but sounds awkward. For the sake of clarity, here are the terms in that definition as I understand them.

I use emotional trigger to mean common emotions like fear, insecurity, thrill, passion, etc. (and the not so nice ones like greed, conceit, etc.) targeted in situations like those studied by Cialdini: reciprocation, commitment and consistency, social proof, authority, liking and scarcity (and others I might not be aware of).

The benefit could be direct and intrinsic to the product, but most often I see it as indirect and within the audience member's personal situation (like being more attractive to pretty girls because of having or using the product being hyped).

The action, of course, is buying the hyped product, or here in the IM world, opting into an email list usually in exchange for a hyped freebie.

Michael

[Steven Wagenheim]

You know, I think I'm going to combine this thread with another one.

Josh Anderson talked about dumbing down IM for people being a bad thing.

Well, in this case, maybe we can dumb down the definition of hype because
all this philosophical stuff is wearing me out.

So how about this?

Salesman: Wear this button on your lapel and you'll have the most beautiful
women in the world flocking to you.

Prospect: Yeah, right! (hype, hype, hype...alarm as gone off wildly)

Now...

Salesman: Wear this cologne and women will have a hard time resisting
you. (gives prospect a wiff)

Prospect: Hmmm. Smells nice. (hey, maybe this will help). Okay, I'll buy it.

It's still hype but at least it's believable hype.

We can go on trying to define hype all we want but our definitions are
pretty much useless unless we know for a fact that our definitions are in
tune with the person we are targeting as a prospect.

God bless him, my best friend Paul is just the nicest guy in the world but
I swear, if I said to him, "Look, get this book and read it and you'll make a
million dollars in a year's time" he'll believe it, proof or not. He is just that
trusting and that's all there is to it. And no, it has nothing to do with me
being his best friend. He'd believe it no matter who said it to him.

Some people will believe anything.

Some people will believe nothing.

Some people will be somewhere in the middle depending on the message
that is conveyed. Those are the only ones you even have a chance or
reaching if you want to play the "what's hype" game and either keep it to
a minimum or live it up for all it's worth.

I know what I think is hype based on the sales pages I read. I could point
out every line of every sales page.

Guess what? It doesn't mean beans because somebody else could look at
that same sales page and if I asked them to tell me what was hype, they'd
either...

1. Not even know what I meant by the word.
2. Pick out totally different lines.
3. Pick out the same lines.

Get 3 people in a room and you could get 3 different responses.

So for me, if you want to know whether you should avoid "your" definition
of hype or build it up for all it's worth, or something in between, then you
need to put out some surveys.

Show a group of people a sales page and ask them to pick out every line
in it that they consider hype. If anybody doesn't know the definition, give
them one...any one. Just as long as you keep it consistent for everybody.
The larger the group, the better.

Then, analyze the results.

Otherwise, we could be going around in circles for years trying to figure
out just what hype is.

Now if you all don't mind, I need to take a Bufferin.

[Paul Myers]

Michael,

Hype is exaggeration of the benefit(s) of a product wedded to an emotional trigger and intended to induce a specific action in the audience.

Problem: This definition ignores the challenge of perception.

The issue isn't, "Is this true?" One assumes that legitimate marketers won't make claims that aren't. The question is, "Is this perceived as being credible, and, if not, why and to what effect?"

When discussing words of such extreme subjectivity, perception and its impact are the key things to consider.

Hence my proposed definition. It's focused on the result.

Grant has some excellent suggestions as starters for figuring out those issues.


Paul

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

The issue isn't, "Is this true?" One assumes that legitimate marketers won't make claims that aren't.

Why would one assume that?

True is TRUE, but holding back the TRUTH is an arrow in the armoury, isn't it?

Blind bullets, etc.

Steve

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Paul,

I like that idea. How's this?

Hype is exaggeration of the perceived benefit(s) of a product wedded to an emotional trigger and intended to induce a specific action in the audience.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Originally Posted by Josh Anderson

Here is a classic video showing all three elements of hype performed with sweaty arm pits by Steve Balmer:

Josh,

I watched the whole thing. I'm still in shock...



Michael

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Josh Anderson

Hype is artificial excitement.

Hyping is the activity of attempting to spread artificial excitement.

Getting hyped up is the absorption of hype for the purpose of getting a hype buzz for temporary relief from reality.

Here is a classic video showing all three elements of hype performed with sweaty arm pits by Steve Balmer:

YouTube - Developers

Well, that's 3 minutes of my life I'm never getting back.

[jhongren]

Whether we like it or not, there is hype everywhere.

Ads do that frequently these days.

Eat this brand of cereal and increase your IQ by that much.

Wear that Nike shoes and you can run like the wind.

Drive that brand of car and you will have the power and fatal attraction women love.

John

[KenSilver]

One man's hype is another man's reason. (Anon)

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Taking a cue from the last post, I looked to see if there were any good quotes about hype. I found one from a record producer that, to me, is pertinent to some of the stuff in the IM field I have observed.

If you hype something and it succeeds, you're a genius - it wasn't a hype. If you hype it and it fails, then it was just a hype.

--Neil Bogart

Michael

[gjabiz]

Some say they know HYPE when they see it. So, is this HYPE?

Ted Nicholas Mentor Program


It is for a Ted Nicholas TOP SECRET limited to only 997 people mentoring program with a value of $175,777.00 for a measly 47 bux per month?

5.9 BILLION in revenue produced from a "Simple Secret".

So, here is revered "guru" by anyone's definition, with testimonials from Joe Sugarman, Yanik Silver and many others. Is this hype?

Is this a shining "HOW TO" example that we can emulate and put in our "swipe" file and learn from? I don't know. I'm asking.

And since we're trying to get some USEFUL and applicable information from this hype thread, what can we learn from one of the greatest marketers ever, Ted Nicholas?

Can someone point out a NON hype promotion from someone with similar success that you perceive to be working? I can't find any, can you? Thanks.

gjabiz

[jhongren]

I think any sales pitch or copy contain hype. The question is just how much hype. Whether it is at the conscious or subtle level!

It reinforces one point - consumer respond well and positive to hype and they love it. Imagine all ads have no hype. It will be quite strange, won't it?

Cheers,
John

[GrantFreeman]

Originally Posted by gjabiz

Some say they know HYPE when they see it. So, is this HYPE?

Ted Nicholas Mentor Program


It is for a Ted Nicholas TOP SECRET limited to only 997 people mentoring program with a value of $175,777.00 for a measly 47 bux per month?

5.9 BILLION in revenue produced from a "Simple Secret".

So, here is revered "guru" by anyone's definition, with testimonials from Joe Sugarman, Yanik Silver and many others. Is this hype?

Is this a shining "HOW TO" example that we can emulate and put in our "swipe" file and learn from? I don't know. I'm asking.

And since we're trying to get some USEFUL and applicable information from this hype thread, what can we learn from one of the greatest marketers ever, Ted Nicholas?

Can someone point out a NON hype promotion from someone with similar success that you perceive to be working? I can't find any, can you? Thanks.

gjabiz

When you read that sales message, what's the one thing that should be included but isn't?

I find it odd that it's missing.

G

[Paul Myers]

Let's see if we can do something useful with all this.

The one thing that's absolutely clear in this thread is that there is a different dfefinition of the word hype for almost every person who uses it. Some of the differences are subtle, and some are extreme.

For purposes of writing copy, we can safely ignore most of the definitions that are purely positive. That is, the folks who like hype, all the way. We don't have to be especially careful about overdoing it for them unless we get into lying, which is not something I recommend.

There is the group that considers emotional phrasing, by itself, to fall into the realm of hype. It's clearly not a good idea to abandon all emotional content in sales copy, as emotion is what makes people act, and the goal of any form of persuasive message is to motivate people to act.

You can't simply dismiss these opinions, however. What they represent is a spectrum, a range across which various people will "turn off" if the emotional content is too much, or the wrong kind, or crosses their personal lines for taste or appropriateness.

For the majority of people in most markets, that level is waaaay higher than for the folks who complain about it. As long as the emotional content is relevant and appropriate to the benefits promised.

In fact, most people want a higher emotional pitch from most sales processes, and only resent it if they find that they end up not believing the promise behind it, or that the promise falls short of the emotions evoked.

The latter case can be a problem even if they believe the claims completely. The response falls into the realm of, "He made a great big deal about that?"

If you look through the comments, you'll notice that some people talk about the experience of reading emotional copy, while others talk about the techniques used to create those states.

That's a big thing, and worth attention. As a rule, people who talk about the techniques are folks who are either very skeptical of the message, and thus looking at the approach used, or people who have been put into an analytical state. The latter can be from the copy or from something outside of your control, such as a previous experience.

Emotional content is a key part of a successful sales message. Looking at the comments and the conclusion above, the thing that seems obvious (and is, for experienced copywriters) is that you want the person to experience the emotions, not analyze them.

If you go overboard, or you try to make too big a jump all at once, you're going to push a lot of people into analytical mode, or activate the hard sales resistance.

Sales resistance basically only happens when people feel like they're being sold to. If they "own" the emotions, and they're interested in the benefits offered, they're shopping. That's a key point. Have you ever noticed that, when you're shopping, you often try to find extra reasons and justifications for buying what you want?

You don't do that when you feel like you're dealing with a "pushy salesman."

No matter what you do, some people will be turned off by it. That's not a sign of anything bad or wrong on their part, of course. Just a preference. A very expensive one for you to try and satisfy.

For example, if you try to appeal to the person who thinks they buy on logic only, you're going to miss the vast majority of your other prospective customers, who won't connect the logical features of your offer with the emotional benefits they're after.

A side comment for those "pure logic" folks: You're kidding yourselves. You're simply accessing those emotions in a different way. Anyone who knows how to approach your style can sell you almost anything.

I'm sure most of the people who feel that way will disagree with that comment. That's to be expected. It's a blind spot that many folks have, especially those with a more technical orientation.

Anyway, back to the comments...

Another big chunk of people consider hype to be untrue or "exaggerated" statements. As was pointed out several times in the thread, there is no way for most people to actually know if the statements in a salesletter are true or not. What you're dealing with here is perception, plain and simple.

As an example, I got an email today from someone who wanted to know if Jimmy D Brown was the real deal. This gentleman felt that Jimmy's claims for his products were beyond belief.

Jimmy is far from the most "hypish" salesman in the market. And his products deliver. Still, this gent was very skeptical. His conclusion was wrong, but that doesn't make his perception wrong.

The guy is quite inexperienced, by his own statement, and asked, rather than assuming. Most people won't do that. They'll go with their gut, and make decisions based on that.

The problem here is that the guy doesn't have the experience to fit those claims within his frame of reference. So, he saw it as hype. A person with more experience, especially some success of their own, would have no problem believing Jimmy's claims.

The question then becomes, who are his target prospects? And how do they, as a group, respond to his message?

There's another group who believe that anything that isn't proven is hype. The problem with this is mixing up the words 'proof' and 'evidence.' Proof is conclusive, and can't be delivered via a sales letter. The best you can do is offer evidence.

Problem: Evidence can be faked, misrepresented, misinterpreted and otherwise misused. Everyone knows that.

The only evidence that can be seen as being legitimately unbiased is that which the person can get for themselves from outside parties, such as affiliate networks or traffic monitoring systems. And even that can be "managed," to present a slanted or otherwise inaccurate picture of things.

The value of a given piece of evidence depends on the credibility of the entity presenting it. If you don't believe them, the evidence tends to be similarly downplayed or discarded.

It works like this: Anything a person hears which supports an existing belief or preference tends to be given more credibility than it deserves. Anything one hears which contradicts an existing belief or preference tends to be given less credence than it might warrant.

It takes a lot more evidence to change an opinion than it does to form one. This is why the headline and first part of a sales letter or other persuasive message is so critical. You begin the opinion process at that point. It's your best chance to move opinions in the right direction.

This is also why so many of the big launches could sell out without any real sales letter at all. People already believe the claims, so they don't need to read the pitch. They're convinced, and that's enough.

Again, even on the question of what's presented as 'proof,' we're back to credibility, which is a function of perception.

Nothing new so far, right?

The question is, how do you manage that perception in order to avoid the negative label of 'hype,' and still make as many sales as possible?

Phrased differently, how do you use the concept of 'hype' to get more people to take the steps you are asking them to take?

You start with the idea that managing hype means dealing with the negative views of it. That's not a judgement of the other perspectives. Just an acknowledgement that, if it doesn't cause damage, it doesn't need managed.

Hence my suggested working definition:

Hype: Anything that tends to detract from the credibility of your message when presented to your target audience.

As Tim mentioned, the key part there is "target audience." You need to understand them and know where the limits of their belief are likely to be.

For example, a person with little experience in business would be likely to look at the claims for Product Launch Formula and think, "Yeah. Right. Bye." They don't usually have the necessary mental frame to support a belief in the claims.

Someone who understands how marketing works will intuitively grasp that it's a credible possibility. At that point, the job becomes explaining enough to make them see that it's more than just a PR course, and that it has a real and workable process behind it.

A lot of copywriters screw up at this point. They try to expand their market by adding stuff to appeal to the folks for whom it's not really believable. They end up screwing up the message and losing their perfect prospects.

In that definition, the word credibility refers to two things. The first is mentioned above: Does the prospect think that what you're promising is possible for them?

You have very little control over that. We all know people who've seen hudnreds of others have success in some area, but who genuinely believe that success in that area is impossible for them.

Trying to convince those people is very nearly the surest way to chase off your perfect prospect. You'll need to introduce levels and types of 'hype' and emotional content that will be inappropriate for someone who knows it's possible and just wants to make it happen. At the same time, you'll be speaking in a way that will make the real prospect think, "This sounds too basic for me. Let's see what else is out there."

The second part of credibility is the matter of the prospect believing that YOU can deliver what you're promising. That's a pretty straight forward proposition.

In this case, imagination and reason are more useful than evidence. If they already believe it's possible, and you ask questions or pose scenarios that they understand as being realistic, they'll tend to supply their own explanations.

This is where the old saying is important: "If you say it, it's just something you said. If they say it, it's true."

Think about that. I've written letters, that sold millions of dollars worth of products, that relied almost exclusively on that principle.

It's also a great way to get people to plug in their own believable goals, without you ever making anything like an extravagant claim for your offer. They're actually more likely to reach those goals, since they won't picture one they truly can't believe in.

If they say it, it's true.

Or it becomes true.

That's the first practical way to avoid hype as I define it here.

Another way, as Grant pointed out, is to speak their language.

People tend not to trust those they consider "outsiders" or "different." If you speak their langauge, just like them, you're going to be way ahead of things. If you talk about the top end of what they believe is possible, you have a credible possibility, and just need to demonstrate that you can deliver.

That's part of the point Grant made about the use of forums to find out what your target market considers hype. It's also good to remember that the majority of people who complain about hype are NOT LIKELY BUYERS for the products in question.

Never assume that the complainers in a forum represent the market. They almost never do. But they give hints that you can use. This is part of the 'art' in copywriting.

His suggestion about asking questions is an excellent one. The most important part is to look for the common expressions and concerns and mirrior those back in your messages.

I foprget who said it (Schwartz?), but the suggestion that you want to enter the conversation your prospect is already having in his head applies here. This is the most effective way to do it. This is how you find out what they're talking to themselves about.

Steven brought up testing. There's no better way to get a measurable answer to the question, "Have I gone too far?"

Learning to write well is another big thing. I don't mean fancy techniques, although those can be quite useful. I'm talking about the ability to paint a picture with your words that your reader adopts and believes. Something they can put themselves into.

That's called story-telling. Learn it.

Enough from me. Looking at this, what other ways would you go about building belief in a promise, or finding and removing things that reduced that belief?


Paul

[GrantFreeman]

"Enough from me. Looking at this, what other ways would you go about building belief in a promise, or finding and removing things that reduced that belief?"

I'm still in deep thought about hype lesson, but at first glance it seems that when you say "building belief in a promise" you mean building trust through the copy?

If that is true, then what would the difference be btw that, and eliminating what my target market calls "Hype"?

Aren't they one in the same?

Grant

PS. Forget about salting the stetson. Wouldn't you rather salt Rose?

[Paul Myers]

Grant,

There's a difference between making something better (more believable) and removing things that make it worse (less believable). The end result is an improvement in both cases, of course.

Think of it like an overweight person deciding to lose weight. If they do it by simply cutting calories, they will reduce a health threat - the excess weight. That's removing something bad.

If they do it by exercising more, they will add something good - additional muscle and overall fitness.

Different ways to improve, using the same focus - weight.

If something is perceived as hype, in the negative sense, by a significant part of your target market, that's a failure of communication. It has effects beyond just the initial sales letter.

Once people decide you're using 'bad' hype, they will tend to avoid your other offers in the future. That's another reason I pointed out the problem of changing an opinion once it's been formed.

If you learn to understand what your market considers to be 'bad' hype, you can adjust to communicate the same things in ways they'll understand are possible and believable. Or you'll remove those things from your sales messages.

The most useful thing about the process is that developing that level of empathy with your market will automatically make you a better salesman and copywriter. It will probably affect every area of your business, including product development and customer service.

The word 'hype' is a very convenient example, because it applies in all markets, and it typifies the problem of highly subjective definitions that exist in most markets. That made it a good place to start.


Paul

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Grant,

There's a difference between making something better (more believable) and removing things that make it worse (less believable). The end result is an improvement in both cases, of course.

Think of it like an overweight person deciding to lose weight. If they do it by simply cutting calories, they will reduce a health threat - the excess weight. That's removing something bad.

If they do it by exercising more, they will add something good - additional muscle and overall fitness.

Different ways to improve, using the same focus - weight.

If something is perceived as hype, in the negative sense, by a significant part of your target market, that's a failure of communication. It has effects beyond just the initial sales letter.

Once people decide you're using 'bad' hype, they will tend to avoid your other offers in the future. That's another reason I pointed out the problem of changing an opinion once it's been formed.

If you learn to understand what your market considers to be 'bad' hype, you can adjust to communicate the same things in ways they'll understand are possible and believable. Or you'll remove those things from your sales messages.

The most useful thing about the process is that developing that level of empathy with your market will automatically make you a better salesman and copywriter. It will probably affect every area of your business, including product development and customer service.

The word 'hype' is a very convenient example, because it applies in all markets, and it typifies the problem of highly subjective definitions that exist in most markets. That made it a good place to start.


Paul

Paul, question. In removing "bad" hype, isn't there always the possibility
of underselling? And if so, how do you know? If your conversion with the
"bad" hype was 1% and your conversion after removing it only goes up to
2%, how do you know it can't be made a little higher by adding some hype
back in?

Naturally, this all goes back to what I said about testing, but you can
drive yourself nuts trying to find that "perfect" sales letter, if indeed it
really exists.

I guess my question is this. At what point do you just say, "Screw it, I've
tinkered with this thing long enough, I can't get past 2% conversion no
matter what I do, so I'm just going to leave it as it is now or set it back to
whatever my best conversion was"

[Martin Luxton]

what other ways would you go about building belief in a promise . . .?

Part of the storytelling aspect:

Lead them down your own path of scepticism.

"When I first read about this, I felt the same way as you. $300 a day with no website?!?!? Everybody knows that's impossible . . ."

Martin

[Paul Myers]

Steven,

The only objective way to know if specific changes helped or hurt is to test them. If the response drops, go back to the original and start over.

The risk of "underselling" is real, which is why I emphasized learning how to say the same things in more believable and effective ways.

That's one of the reasons I mentioned the story on doing data backups. That's some of the most extreme emotional content I've ever put into a business article. If I'd just stated the potential problems, it would have come across as unbelievable hype. By telling the same things in a different way, it becomes more than believable. It becomes an "of course" thing - an assumed fact.

Eliminating hype does not mean, for most people, reducing emotional impact. It means making it relatable and credible.

As far as when to stop tinkering with tests... The rule is easy. When the possible gains from improving a letter are less than the gains from some other activity, you stop.


Paul

[GrantFreeman]

So they are NOT one in the same, although they support the same desired end results: a sale, and a repeat customer. That is if I understood correctly.

"what other ways would you go about building belief in a promise?"

Include benefits that build attraction to the offer, and which add credibility to the message when presented to the target market. Leave out the words and situations that your TM can't relate to.

In other words..you're removing the "fat", and creating additional muscle and overall fitness to the sales letter

Grant

[Paul Myers]

Grant,

So they are NOT one in the same, although they support the same desired end results: a sale, and a repeat customer. That is if I understood correctly.

You did.

Another way to do this is to work on the offer itself. Quite often, you can improve credibility by adding things like videos, showing exactly how to do some part of what you're teaching, or to use what you're selling.

Something in the brain assumes that the existence of a video demonstration must mean the thing has actually been done. So, where video will help, it adds value to the product AND the believability of the offer.

Learning to think about this as you develop and promote products is easy, as long as you make a conscious effort at the beginning. It very quickly becomes a habit of mind, and happens automatically after that.


Paul

[TimGross]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Paul, question. In removing "bad" hype, isn't there always the possibility
of underselling? And if so, how do you know? If your conversion with the
"bad" hype was 1% and your conversion after removing it only goes up to
2%, how do you know it can't be made a little higher by adding some hype
back in?

Here's a harder question, reverse your numbers and how do you analyze it:

If your conversion with "bad" hype was 2% and your conversion after removing it goes down to 1%, how do you know for sure that the 1% were the same buyers that made up the 2%?

It's possible that the 2% "hype" buyers were all wannabee newbies who will never buy from you again, but the 1% non-hype buyers were all serious business owners who wouldn't have bought from the hype version at all, and their lifetime value to you as customers are staggeringly higher than the 2% buyers.

(So the question is, are you just getting more buyers with the hype, or are you getting completely different buyers and alienating other potentially better customers in the process??)

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by TimGross

Here's a harder question, reverse your numbers and how do you analyze it:

If your conversion with "bad" hype was 2% and your conversion after removing it goes down to 1%, how do you know for sure that the 1% were the same buyers that made up the 2%?

It's possible that the 2% "hype" buyers were all wannabee newbies who will never buy from you again, but the 1% non-hype buyers were all serious business owners who wouldn't have bought from the hype version at all, and their lifetime value to you as a customer as staggeringly higher than the 2% buyers.

(So the question is, are you just getting more buyers with the hype, or are you getting completely different buyers and alienating other potentially better customers in the process??)

Tim, I never thought of that and that's an excellent point. I would guess
that different styles of sales letters appeal to different people entirely.

Okay, this is getting too complicated for me. I'm going to end up with
analysis paralysis.

[ExRat]

Hi,

Swwiiiippe.

Cheers Paul.

I'd love to answer your question as a gesture of gratitude, but I don't have an answer, sorry. But thanks again. I'll work on finding that answer.

[Paul Myers]

Tim,

That's a very real possibility in some markets. The only way to answer it, for any specific case, is to track things from the initial traffic source and version of the copy through to the back end sales.


Paul

[Bryan Kumar]

Man, this thread kicks serious butt! (Oops, was that hype? ;-))

Thanks, Paul, for all the killer stuff you've shared. And thanks to everyone that added to it.

For me, this is equivalent to at least a $97 copywriting product.

I'm saving this for repeat reads and note-taking.

Thanks!
Bryan

[Paul Myers]

Bryan,

Man, this thread kicks serious butt! (Oops, was that hype? ;-))

Only to the people who don't "get" it. Which is an excellent example of the point.

For me, this is equivalent to at least a $97 copywriting product.

It could easily be turned into one. Help yourself.


Paul

[Kerry Finch]

To me "Hype" is a term used to build and/or convey the impression that everyone is talking about the topic, whether this is a true situation or not. Here in Aussie, my circle would call it B--- S---. Fill in the blanks.
Kerry

[GrantFreeman]

Thank you Paul.

One of my problems with putting that all together is becoming the editor before I've finished the sales letter. All the other variables like length of the page, graphics, video, subheads, and keywords get in the way of the content that should be the heart of the message.

I could be wrong about this, and it's ok if I am. If I just stay focused on the key principles first, and edit out the stuff that doesn't fit in with the message, the offer will have done it's job-

Creating interest, creating curiosity, and creating a deeper connection with the customer, which = gotta have it now!

And all because you're giving the customer what he/she wants. It's not bad hype, it's not good hype. It's the hype that fits & works.

I see where I've made mistakes in the past-with video. I took them out of the message because sales went down, but I haven't looked deeper into the message the video was presenting.

Gotta go do that now!

Namaste,

Grant

[Paul Myers]

Grant,

Never edit before you've finished. Editing on the fly isn't even a good idea for the most experienced writers, unless they're working with a market they know REALLY well.

When you go back to edit, you want to trim fat and add muscle, to use the earlier example.

With video, there are a lot of things to consider. Speed and size, whether it's auto-start or not, and all the technical stuff. The message is the biggest thing. I've seen a few videos in salesletters that are like, "Look at me. I'm cool. Buy this, 'cause it's cool, too."

Blaaarg.

I don't do video, so you'd be best to talk to one of the movie guys for advice on that. We have enough of them here...

As far as your first comment... The copy is the key. If you put too much stock in the rest, you may find yourself missing sales because you counted on the 'look and feel' to do too much of the selling.


Paul

[jrdecker]

I think the word "hype" is the same as hooplah! Both are hard to explain!
That's my best guess.

Julie

[Elmer Hurlstone]

In 1964 Justice Potter Stewart wrote within a concurring opinion on pornography, "...I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it;..."(italics added)

Today I'll take the easy way out and cite Justice Stewart's comment as referent to hype.

This thread illustrates the difficulty in defining apparently subjective matter.

My "hype" is your "copy", and vice versa.

Elmer Hurlstone

[Bryan Kumar]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Bryan,Only to the people who don't "get" it. Which is an excellent example of the point.

Which is not at all what I was going for...or was it...? lol

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

It could easily be turned into one. Help yourself.

Whoa, really? Thanks, man!!

It's crazy how easily one can improve his/her copy simply by focusing on this strategy alone. Very cool.

[ianstables]

Hype is a shortening of the word 'hyperbole'.

Hype is an opinion about a product, whether true or false.

Examples...

Win a fantastic holiday

Luxurious cruise

Beautiful vase

So here's someone saying "I think this holiday is fantastic" or "this cruise is luxury" or "this is a beautiful vase".

Buyers don't want someone else's opinion, they want to decide for themselves.

For instance, there are countless job ads in newspapers that say things like...

Excellent Salary, Comprehensive Benefits Package, Full Health Plan. All hype. If it's an excellent salary, then prove it to me. What makes the benefits package comprehensive? Why is this a full health plan?

So if you've written "superb camera", change it to something like... Fully automatic, 1800 dpi, 40x automatic zoom, and so on. This way the reader can decide for themselves whether it's superb for themselves.

Buyers want the facts. From the facts they'll be able to see that it's brilliant, amazing, fantastic, etc.

Does this help?

Regards Ian Stables

[Frank Donovan]

Originally Posted by ianstables

Hype is an opinion about a product, whether true or false.

Er, no; that would just be an opinion.

Originally Posted by ianstables

Buyers don't want someone else's opinion, they want to decide for themselves.

Buyers crave someone else's opinion. That's why review sites are so popular.


Frank

[Dixiebelle]

Hi Paul: I think I will jump in here. I love a challenge.

The simplest definition of "Hype" is " exaggeration". A person's perception of hype depends on whether they think it is blatant, deceptive, or just plain fluff.

NOUN:
"Hype was the main topic of that document."

VERB:
"I can hype the document so that it will be more believable."

PREPOSITIONAL PHRASE:
"The document was riddled with hype."

That's my take.

Dixie

[jbsmith]

For me, "hype" is simply mis-directed marketing.

If you understand the grey matter behind the eyeballs of those who visit your site, who they are, what ELSE they tend to look at, what they buy and why, whether they are emotionally or logically dirven, what they REALLY want - then you run a much less chance of marketing hype.

There are three important factors - all related to how well you understand your customer:

1. Relevancy - how relevant is the message to what they want
2. Their values and beliefs - if you stray too far from their core values and beliefs you will be unbelievable - this has been shown again and again in consumer behavior research
3. Proof - the degree to which your customer 'believes' that what you offer will lead to a given state of being, feeling, result, etc...

What is perhaps most interesting about all of this is that for each market (indeed sub-niche), these factors change.

For example, how you market a diet product to older women will be quite different than marketing it to X-tream sports crowd. You could make a bold statement about how your diet will build incredible endurance and power which will seem like pure hype if you have older women coming to your site.

This example is quite simple to understand (two extremes of the gammut in terms of target market), but the problem is many online businesses don't really know WHO they are marketing to while others try and market to multiple audiences at the same time and come off as pure hype to part of their audience.

Jeff

[Rachel Goodchild]

sigh...I'm in thought provoking, mentally stimulated bliss...

which is my non hyped thanks Paul.
I'm with Rog on this...SWIPE!