Here's what you can kiss

12 years ago

They're totally different things... I can't see what having people viewing their site reviewing it would benefit them in any way other than the advice they get to improve the site.

You on the other hand are getting testimonials for your product to help you sell it.

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GMD

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by ichl13

They're totally different things... I can't see what having people viewing their site reviewing it would benefit them in any way other than the advice they get to improve the site.

You on the other hand are getting testimonials for your product to help you sell it.

They're different, yes. But are they really SO different?

Let's pull out the Devil's Advocate board game for a second:

I'm going to post this in the main forum:

TITLE: Created an awesome eBook! Please review!

POST: Hey guys! Attached is a copy of my eBook I just wrote. I was wondering if people could read it and look at how I put it together and see if it's okay and if this is the right way to do it??? I'd appreciate it if you left your advice or opinion on how I did and what I can do to make it better?

Then people read it, and they post -- they post it's great, it sucks, it could use this or that.

Now let's post this to the main forum:

TITLE: Created an awesome website! Please review!

POST: Hey guys! Here's a link to my website that I just finished. I was wondering if people could read it and look at how I put it together and see if it's okay if if this is the right way to do it??? I'd appreciate it if you left your advice or opinion on how I did and what I could do to make it better?

Then people look at the site, and they post -- they post it's great, it sucks, it could use this or that.

In the end, product review or website review, the OP is TRYING TO SELL SOMETHING. The product reviews just use postings to try to increase sales (they're not necessary at all to produce sales). The website "reviews" have got ads on them, clicky this and this clicky that make-cash links, working opt-ins, etc.

Sure, it's apples and oranges.

But they're still fruits.

Thanks

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MelCqe

12 years ago

A most interesting title to your post GMD - had no idea where it was heading but thanks for your insight into devious behaviour by the uninitiated -

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dv8domainsDotCom

12 years ago

I think in this case, it is the "intent" of the poster asking for the "review"...
Maybe it would be a little bit different if they asked for a specific "thing" to be looked at:
"Hey, what do you think of the red banner vs. the blue banner here?" and then give link for view/comparison.... it is specific and will probably get good results. (and seems more genuine, at its heart).

But what the OP is ticked at is the account(s) that are registered (no idea how many) just to post a request for "review", when the reality is, they are posting merely to request "views" for their website and possibly the occasional sale. Those people really just need to buy a WSO post like the rest of the legit business would...

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

It's done on a case-by-case basis, but the standards are easy enough to frame in rough terms.

If it's IM-related, we will probably delete the request. Too many of those are just sneaky sales pitches. If you want the copy reviewed, we'll move it to copywriting. If the design, to web design.

If you're looking for product reviews (as separate from site critiques), it has to be a paid thread. The reason for that is to keep the discussion areas from being used for pre-selling.

Paul

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GMD

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

It's done on a case-by-case basis, but the standards are easy enough to frame in rough terms.

If it's IM-related, we will probably delete the request. Too many of those are just sneaky sales pitches. If you want the copy reviewed, we'll move it to copywriting. If the design, to web design.

If you're looking for product reviews (as separate from site critiques), it has to be a paid thread. The reason for that is to keep the discussion areas from being used for pre-selling.

Paul

Thanks for your reply, Paul.

Maybe you hit the nail-on-the-head by writing that many are just "sneaky sales pitches". I see that many are and for some reason it just rubs me the wrong way (even though it should not).

Thanks

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Istvan Horvath 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

If you want the copy reviewed, we'll move it to copywriting. If the design, to web design.

<cough> and that's how the web design forum ends up to look like this:
(and most of the "review replies" are like: nice; looks good; good job; I like it... etc)

I suggest to ban completely such threads. According the the admin's sticky, that place was created for asking questions, asking for help with your marketing website!
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- Paul Myers 12 years ago
  
  Istvan,
  
  According the the admin's sticky, that place was created for asking questions, asking for help with your marketing website!
  
  Asking for critiques IS asking for marketing help.
  
  If the members don't feel that's a proper way to spend their time, they're under no obligation or expectation to do them. That's always the choice of each individual. But that is the right section for those requests, as I understand things. Allen's post is pretty broad: "All things web design."
  
  Even your own sticky in that section only discourages people from asking for critiques if they're obvious self-promotion by professional designers.
  
  Paul
  
  Thanks
  
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  .
  Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.
  
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theory expert

Banned 12 years ago

I don't think this community is totally dunce to self promotion. If someone is masking a website for reviews for presale they are usually sniffed out. As many people who can tell when someone is touting their own horn vs. being sincere it is difficult to pull wool over the community eyes. We spend hours/days/decades studying marketing, so, as a whole I think we can figure out what new "member Y" is doing. As for your blacklist example, simply report the guy and he will go away, as the WF members are pretty good at policing post (including yourself.

)

...and when we/you are not good the mods do just fine to clean up what was missed. JMO.

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GMD

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by theory expert

I don't think this community is totally dunce to self promotion. If someone is masking a website for reviews for presale they are usually sniffed out. As many people who can tell when someone is touting their own horn vs. being sincere it is difficult to pull wool over the community eyes. We spend hours/days/decades studying marketing, so, as a whole I think we can figure out what new "member Y" is doing. As for your blacklist example, simply report the guy and he will go away, as the WF members are pretty good at policing post (including yourself.

)

...and when we/you are not good the mods do just fine to clean up what was missed. JMO.

I agree with you that in that this community is not totally dunce to weeding out the garbage around here. HOWEVER...

Take today. A member here with over 12,000 posts and considered "respected" around here actually replied to an OBVIOUS fake poster / garbage post (a string of one-liners throughout the day, as well as triple posting threads with the SAME issue and that "issue" was totally incomprehensible).

...and this is AFTER Allen (admin) posted a thread about this same subject and the respected member referenced above obviously read admin's thread because he/she "thanked" the post.

So if members like that aren't getting it, is it really reasonable to assume that lots of other members aren't getting it either.

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theory expert

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by GMD

Take today. A member here with over 12,000 posts and considered "respected" around here actually replied to an OBVIOUS fake poster / garbage post (a string of one-liners throughout the day, as well as triple posting threads with the SAME issue and that "issue" was totally incomprehensible).

...and this is AFTER Alan Says posted a thread about this same subject and the respected member referenced above obviously read admin's thread because he/she "thanked" the post.

So if members like that aren't getting it, is it really reasonable to assume that lots of other members aren't getting it either.

Not saying it doesn't happen...I am sure we all have made the mistake. Nobody is perfect after all, but, over all when you have a large community of marketers in one room 9 out of 10 it'll be taken care of...just saying.

By the way, are you referring to subsections of the forum like Istvan pointed out?

FYI: To the statisticians, the answer is know I do not have data to back up my 9 out of 10 statement.

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GMD

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by theory expert

Not saying it doesn't happen...I am sure we all have made the mistake. Nobody is perfect after all, but, over all when you have a large community of marketers in one room 9 out of 10 it'll be taken care of...just saying.

By the way, are you referring to subsections of the forum like Istvan pointed out?

FYI: To the statisticians, the answer is know I do not have data to back up my 9 out of 10 statement.

You know what? I'm totally surprised that I learned something today. I didn't even KNOW about the forum that Istvan pointed out. So I thank him for that.

Aside from feeling stupid I'm happy that the solution for me is now obvious: report those threads that they should be in the website subsection!

Thanks
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cashp0wer 12 years ago

I love the title of your post and just had to click on it to see what I could kiss - I completely agree with everything in your post by the way.
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Jeffery

12 years ago

Originally Posted by GMD

You know what? I'm totally surprised that I learned something today. I didn't even KNOW about the forum that Istvan pointed out. So I thank him for that.

Aside from feeling stupid I'm happy that the solution for me is now obvious: report those threads that they should be in the website subsection!

Every thread that I have reported that should be in the website section has never been moved, so let me know how that goes for you.

I have even reported a WSO with a WSO Image (sales copy) with links to the site with malware builders and it is still live.

Also, in the Main Forum where people ask for website reviews I have suggested they post in the website section. Many of the senior members here actually contribute to the threads even though they know the Mods are trying to keep the threads relevant to the forum.

AT times, some of the Original Posters never return to the threads even to say thank you.

And the thread with a blacklisted site, etc. I am the person that pointed out that the site was blacklisted, malware was present, provided proof, the OP admitted he was using blackhat methods and people still clicked through to his site. Later, after explaining a little about ethics the OP cleaned up the malware and said he was trying to go whitehat. Thats the only reason I did not report it.

Jeffery 100% :-)

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GMD

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeffery

Every thread that I have reported that should be in the website section has never been moved, so let me know how that goes for you.

a I have even reported a WSO with a WSO Image (sales copy) with links to site with malware builders and it is still live.

And the thread with a blacklisted site, etc. I am the person that pointed out that the site was blacklisted, malware was present, provided proof, the OP admitted he was using blackhat methods and people still clicked through to his site. Later, after explaining a little about ethics the OP cleaned up the malware and said he was trying to go whitehat. Thats the only reason I did not report it.

Jeffery 100% :-)

Thanks Jeffery for this -- I remember your important involvement in the thread you (and I, earlier) referenced.

And so true, a lot of what's reported is not moved; maybe that has to do with how many mods there are, or what the priorities are from taking down obvious spam all the way down the line to maybe lesser priorities like moving threads. I don't know.

All I know is that I'm tired of seeing people come on here just to try to get one up on people and think that they are getting away with it.

Thanks

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ecoverartist

12 years ago

I got these kinds of requests constantly - and in the spirit of helping others, I'd write them a couple of quick paragraphs... but with some people, you give an inch and they take a mile. So I started charging for it. And it's much more than just a few paragraphs - it's 10+ pages focused on increasing conversion rates. Not really geared toward complete newbies, but rather people who want to take their site to the next level.

I don't mind helping people out, but there's a line where time = money.

One suggestion - a few years ago, Sitepoint forums had a website review forum where, in order to get your site reviewed, you had to review 3 others. Those reviews had to be more than just "good job" "looks good" etc. Might want to consider something like that here!

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Here's what you can kiss

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