Paypal sucks. Screwed for no reason after 5 years of business... Need alternative.

[MeTellYou]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I would not take this lying down. For me, it would mean close to the end of
my business until I found another payment processor, and then having to
change all my DLGuard products from PayPal to something else.

I would get a lawyer and fight this with every drop of my blood and make
an example of these people just like that one guy did with Google.

You don't have to take this crap.

I know I wouldn't.

I totally agree with you man! it does seem pretty overwhelming to sue them though, because they are a huge company, but you know what, if you have the time and the stress endurance and patients, then it's worth it.

I really like they cut their customer support. Never had a problem with them before.

Sebastian

[JaceBarnett]

Originally Posted by Jason Anderson

The REAL solution is simply to get a merchant account. The most popular in internet marketing is Authorize.net...

I agree. Authorize.net also has a payment gateway which can be used with other merchant accounts, which brings me to...

Originally Posted by Jason Anderson

If your credit is an issue you may not get approved.

There are companies that offer "free" merchant accounts that don't have large application fees, or large one-time purchased accounts. They rely strictly on a percentage of your revenue (like you know who) -- so you might want to Google "free merchant account."

[o_brient]

Originally Posted by NPmaster

WOW they hold your funds also? I would fight
for all your money back plus the interest they
are earning on it now since they have taken
control of it.

I guess you might have been selling stuff and
after payment your buyers were transferred to
an OTO or another one time salespage.

If you have been doing this PayPal will close
down your account once they find out.

NPMaster - can you explain the above? I haven't heard of any problems with Paypal and OTO's - can you point out some info in the TOS or other relevant sources?

If true, it is a problem for any marketer as OTO's are ubiquitous in every industry.

All the best,
Tom

[mogema]

Hey Scott

Sorry to hear about the problems,

I can understand your frustration because as a South African citizen im not allowed to receive money through paypal but they have no problem taking it from me!

Anyway i use 2checkout and they have been great.

Hope you come right

[pj413]

Sorry to hear that Scott. My sister went through the same thing last year. She was a power seller on eBay, and her PayPal account got closed after 4 years. All she sold was items that she picked up from yard sales and thrift marts. She made a nice income from eBay, in her last two years; she made an average of $6500 a month. Then one morning she checked her PayPal account, and she was limited, followed by the awful parting ways letter. Not only that, PayPal held the $15,000 she had in her account for 90 days.

[Powertreb]

If a collective effort by a substantial group of marketers and online businesses were somehow organized to leave PayPal and specifically state these occurrences as the reason for leaving, would it make a dent or make anyone there notice?

I wouldn't expect eBay sellers to do this, for obvious reasons. But as for a good chunk of non-eBay businesses to do this...does anyone think it might push them towards relaxing the "We do what we want without needing to give you a specific reason" policy?

Any opinions?

[tnleverett]

Hey guys,

My Paypal account was closed as well this week. No warning and no good reason. Talked to them on the phone and I was told that it was an Ebay decision and there was nothing they could do about it. Seems like Ebay and Paypal are really screwing people!

Good thing is I didnt have any cash in the account.

T

[nmh]

I would post a complaint w/ the Better Business Bureau for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This cost you a lot of money. That is CRAZY!!!! Others should know but if no one ever files anything, it will keep happening.

[Scott Murdaugh]

I find it a bit strange Scott with that many transactions that you never had a dispute, refund etc.

I have been in IM for over 10 years and with Paypal 9 of those years and had my account suspended a couple of times but using a calm business approach always been able to get it resolved and back up within an acceptable time.

I have had many customers also using Paypal where they have had their account frozen for different reasons and also sorted it out. In every case it was the customers fault.

I guess what I am saying is what your saying does ring true with my experience and I don't think you are telling the whole story.

Q

I don't really care if you believe me or not.

I didn't say I've never had a dispute or given a refund, I said I haven't in a few months.

I haven't sold physical products in years. When I sell digital products, I always have a 100% satisfaction guarantee.

So anytime a buyer complained for any reason or disputed, I would refund. My refund %'s are always low.

At the end of last year I sold off a lot of my websites to shift my focus to copywriting and a few bigger products that I plan to release soon.

I haven't sold anything besides writing services through Paypal in a couple of months.

And to clarify a few other comments I've seen...

My account isn't limited, it's done. Paypal doesn't want to work with me anymore, I worked my way up the customer service chain yesterday and was very diplomatic. No possibility to be reinstated, no second review of my account, it's just done.

My guess is that they didn't like the fact that I was selling a large volume of expensive items that aren't physical and that they can't see. That's the only thing I can think of.

Anyway, it's just a payment processor. I'll live without the money for awhile. I have friends and family with Paypal accounts I can use, I have backup plans in place, and life will go on.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, it's been a huge help!

-Scott

[fadi]

Sorry to hear about this scott. I wonder if there is anything we can really do about this..The only reason I ever really use paypal for is ebay. If I can get around that problem then MOST people would not need paypal.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Okay, here's my question, and I think it's a damn good one.

We are all so quick to accept so much in this world as the "gospel", part of
that being that you must have PayPal to take payments because so many
people will only pay through PayPal.

But is that really true?

I mean do we know this for a fact that if we didn't take PayPal we'd be
screwing ourselves?

Where are the stats?

Where can this be verified?

Or is this just more hearsay that we take as gospel because some big
named guru said it?

Can't we do just as well by going to our bank or wherever and getting our
own merchant account?

I mean for crying out loud, not every site on the Internet takes PayPal and
some of them are darn successful.

If I'm not mistaken, I don't think Aweber takes PayPal.

Doesn't seem to be hurting them much.

Point is, so what if PayPal tells us goodbye?

Are they really the only game in town?

[Scott Murdaugh]

Steve,

I have thought A LOT about what you just said over the last couple of days...

Basically trying to answer the question "Will I be alright without Paypal?"

In short, yeah, I'll be fine personally.

The main problem I see is that a lot of the things I buy require Paypal... WSO's, services on this forum, things like that.

But I know enough people with a Paypal account that I can just have them pay for me and pay them back with cash or whatever.

As for accepting payments, if people want what you're selling and know who you are, I don't think it's an issue.

The only downside I'm seeing is I'll lose the instant cash in hand that my Paypal account/card gave me, but that's not a big deal.

And in my opinion, if your business relies on one company... Paypal, Google, whoever to survive, you need to restructure your business, or at least have a backup plan in place that you can implement immediately.

-Scott

[vsl.online]

Hey, I heard paypal is banning (or something similar) accounts from receiving mass payments now. I actually had 3 friends who experienced that already.

What are they up to? They don't want us to earn too?

[Kay King]

Paypal allows payments without an account - so you might still have the ability to use it for purchases. Worth checking.

What are they up to?

They are owned by ebay which is based on "pay this, receive your product". I think what they are doing is avoiding any "risk" of charges of money laundering. Even an investigation could ruin their business and they are putting caution above everything.

I may be wrong but this seems the most likely explanation as they are labeling "high risk" accounts that are mostly service based where money is paid but no product is attached to the payment (that paypal can point to, at least).

I wonder if marketers might try to avoid the problem by providing a download even for payments for "service" - such as a pdf that outlines the agreement or whatever. Don't know - but it's a thought.

kay

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I mean do we know this for a fact that if we didn't take PayPal we'd be
screwing ourselves?

Where are the stats?

Where can this be verified?

I can only provide anecdotal evidence on my own purchasing habits. I can tell you that there have been many times that I haven't purchased a product or service because the seller didn't accept PayPal.

Originally Posted by scottspfd82

The main problem I see is that a lot of the things I buy require Paypal... WSO's, services on this forum, things like that.

But I know enough people with a Paypal account that I can just have them pay for me and pay them back with cash or whatever.

As for accepting payments, if people want what you're selling and know who you are, I don't think it's an issue.

Could this have been an issue? I'm assuming the account you received payments on was a business or premiere account? Could a problem have been buying and selling with the same account?

I don't see why it would be an issue, but maybe something about making purchases through a business or premiere account raises some red flags or something?

[AliciaSpringer]

This is not uncommon with Paypal, in fact I've heard plenty of horror stories. The usual reason they give is "high risk" but never really provide valid proof of how "Risky" of a merchant you are. It is at their sole discretion for terminating merchants.

[Scott Murdaugh]

Could this have been an issue? I'm assuming the account you received payments on was a business or premiere account? Could a problem have been buying and selling with the same account?

It was a business account.

I really doubt that me buying stuff was the issue... That would be ridiculous... Then again giving me no reason at all is pretty ridiculous too, so I dunno.

[hotlinkz]

With thousands of dollars each month, you should look into getting your own merchant account setup.

Best alternative I know of other than that is AlertPay.

This is definitely not the first or last PayPal horror story. I leave about $10 in my PP account and transfer everything else out.

You may want to try filing complaints with some consumer watchdog agencies.

It's almost like politicians own and run PayPal

[fadi]

As for personal experiance.. I have 1 paypal account that is in the negative because someone broke into it. My bank cleared my of the fraude but paypal didnt, So I open a new one to clear my first one and they lock up the new paypal account with over $1,500 in it. And they still have the balls to send me to collections. I refuse to pay my negative balance until they release my funds after 180 days. This should be coming up in may. If I could SUE paypal I would. I think this should be a group effort in the sueing process. Otherwise their lawyers will eat any single entity alive. There are not enough negative words in the dictionary to describe the hate I have for paypal..

[ryanvhamer]

I remember sometime ago someone had posted a site I think it was something like paypalsucks dot come or something like that for people to contact paypal for issues like this. Paypal makes it very hard to get satisfaction when there are problems like this but are quick to shut you down when they think there is some hanky panky going on. Really not fair at all.

[ryanvhamer]

I will try and find that link for you. It lists supervisors and their direct lines and stuff. I am not sure if its still accurate but it couldn't hurt.

[RevenueRabbi]

With US Paypal users able to generate VCC numbers, there is much LESS incentive to take paypal in such a case, where you are selling mainly to the US market... because paypal customers can buy from you even if you dont accept paypal.

I have had this with clients outside the USA that I have paid their aweber bills for via a VCC when they sent me a paypal to cover it.

[Debbie Songster]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Okay, here's my question, and I think it's a damn good one.

We are all so quick to accept so much in this world as the "gospel", part of
that being that you must have PayPal to take payments because so many
people will only pay through PayPal.

But is that really true?

I mean do we know this for a fact that if we didn't take PayPal we'd be
screwing ourselves?

Where are the stats?

Where can this be verified?

Or is this just more hearsay that we take as gospel because some big
named guru said it?

Can't we do just as well by going to our bank or wherever and getting our
own merchant account?

I mean for crying out loud, not every site on the Internet takes PayPal and
some of them are darn successful.

If I'm not mistaken, I don't think Aweber takes PayPal.

Doesn't seem to be hurting them much.

Point is, so what if PayPal tells us goodbye?

Are they really the only game in town?

I can tell you from the experience with my stores that you won't lose business if you don't take paypal.
I offer both - paypal and direct credit cards and over 90% of my sales come through on credit cards.
Infact, I converted one of my stores to paypal only and the sales dropped. I recently moved it back to paypal and credit card and my sales went up.
Whats that tell you?
People want to pay with their credit cards.

There are so many cards out there that offer rebates and points people like to use those.
As for security. My stores are secure but I still have people who call to place an order or they will place an order and select payment by check/mo and then leave me a message they want to pay with a CC over the phone or they will call me directly.

Due to the headaches paypal can deliver, I don't recommend them to my clients. Jay, who has a heating and AC store only takes CC's and it works great.

Anyone who truly has an online business should have a merchant account. I have 3 of them.
They will ask you what you are selling and tag your account accordingly. They will also ask you what your average order size (amount) will be and how much volume you expect to put through in a month.
Anytime you get a higher order amount or you think you are going to do a large volume you need to call them and let them know so it isn't flagged in their system. They will hold funds as well if a purchase seems excessive or suspect. They certainly don't hold it for 180 days - I don't even think thats legal is it?

If you do big ticket items they may ask you to get a signature from the card holder.
You have to remember that there is a big difference between processing CC online and in a regular brick and mortar store.
We don't have the privilege of seeing the card and swiping it through a system. Therefore the risk is a lot higher. Thats why the rates you pay for a merchant account with online sales will be 1% - 2% higher than your regular stores.

Scott, for your service you would do well to set up Quickbooks and get their merchant account. Process your customer through your bookkeeping system (one entry) and at the same time if its a large sale amount you can add a signature line to the invoice, email it to them and get them to fax it back to you signed. That way you are covered with the CC company.

You keep their CC on file in your bookkeeping system so its there when you do more work for them. Just get them to fax you an authorization to complete the transaction.

[Joshua N. Rabon]

scottspfd82 that sucks, but I'm glad to see you see the positive side. What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger.

Here's a merchant account company endorsed by Armand Morin, Ray Edwards, David Garfinkel, Yanik Silver and others, for understanding the needs of internet marketers and avoiding situations like yours-- Merchant Account | Credit Card Merchant Account | PowerPay

Originally Posted by WinsonYeung

Wow, is there anyway to file a dispute or lawsuit ?
if you need to take some action, you can by submitting a report to
Ripoff Report: By Consumers, For Consumers

FYI, there is quite a bit of evidence that "Ripoff Report" is an extortion scheme. It does have legitimate complaints, but it is said that it then solicits money from the companies in exchange for clearing them on the complaint. A lot of companies give in because they get high search engine rankings.

[Hackbridge]

How can they take thousands of dollars off you for no good reason? And you not demand it back in a court of law?

Is there a lawyer present? Perhaps that would be a great niche to work in? Suing Paypal!

Search online "Sue Paypal" and see what you get.

Originally Posted by scottspfd82

I would love to sue them. Not worth the time though, I'm guessing their TOS lays everything out pretty clear.

It's a good way to see how much I relied on them. I think in the bigger picture this will be a good thing.

-Scott

[Hackbridge]

What would it take for internet marketers to set up a payment system like Pay Pal and compete against it? Would they need the backing of a bank or just a wealthy person?

What if?

Brian

Originally Posted by Powertreb

If a collective effort by a substantial group of marketers and online businesses were somehow organized to leave PayPal and specifically state these occurrences as the reason for leaving, would it make a dent or make anyone there notice?

I wouldn't expect eBay sellers to do this, for obvious reasons. But as for a good chunk of non-eBay businesses to do this...does anyone think it might push them towards relaxing the "We do what we want without needing to give you a specific reason" policy?

Any opinions?

[Robert Puddy]

This can happen with any payment processor, even a real merchant account. In fact its much more likely to happen with your own merchant account.

And paypal are essentially putting there merchant account on the line verytime they process payents for anyone. there fraud department runs on the rules set by the credit card companies.

either they kill all risk no matter how smaall or they risk losing their own merchant account effectively putting them out of business.

With one company I use to be associated with the merchant account froze the account because we were doing monthly subscriptions, they deemed it high risk and froze the account for 180 days (180 days is the norm)

If they choose to to stop dealing with your business from a risk assessment thier only option is to hold onto the funds for that period in which perspective chargebacks are eligible.

And I would say the risk is as pointed out here, no discernable product digital or physical.

I have had this conversation with my paypal rep, and we now log all customer activity on the sites we run, we record the IP address of every log in and can recall the records of all accounts. Essentially we can give them a complete record of number of times they logged in the IP adresses used and the last login date.

The risk on doing business is all on paypal, they risk far more than you if they get it wrong, so their fraud department is rightfully cautious

Robert

[Robert Puddy]

Originally Posted by Hackbridge

What would it take for internet marketers to set up a payment system like Pay Pal and compete against it? Would they need the backing of a bank or just a wealthy person?

What if?

Brian

You would be tied to the same rules as paypal, the payment processor is taking all the risk and must defend their business even if sometimes they are over zealous.

The credit card companies would hold you responsible for the funds if you get it wrong And you dont want the risk financially trust me far to many people out there that would be a real threat, which is why it makes it more dangerous for the rest of us

[Debbie Songster]

To add to what Robert has talked about...

Given the present state of the economy, credit card companies are tightening up their belts.
This maybe why you are seeing more account closures with places like Paypal.

I'm seeing this with my husbands boat dealership.
There are bad apples in all levels - from the consumer to the business owner.
In a knee jerk reaction, financial institutions (cc companies) are going through their accounts with a fine tooth comb to minimize their risks.

For example at the dealership they are seeing an increase in the interest rate from the flooring companies (companies that carry the purchase of the products in your showroom) as well as a decreased "free flooring" time.

There are companies as well as individuals going bankrupt and the financial houses are panicking. They need to cover their losses as well as minimize any future loss.

In a time when these institutions need to help small business and be more flexible - they aren't. Its a knee jerk reaction and it affects business as well as consumers

Is it the right way to do things? - not necessarily but its our present reality.

[new guy]

You could still do more with customer service and co-operation. I don't think the issue here is so much in that they held the account.

It it in that they have no desire to try and rectify the problem. Just ignore us until we go away. That it no way to run a business.

[Robert Puddy]

As a side note here, if you have customers who lodge an unauthorised activity dispute with paypal because they just want a refund, be careful to fight the dispute...

I used to take the view that it wasnt worth the time to argue and it was better customer relations to just process the refund. But everytime a customer lodges an unathorised activity complaint they are accusing you of fraudulent activyt, and everytime you capitulate to keep the peace you are essentially admitting the fraud.

If customers come to us via the support desk and ask for a refund, even if its because they just changed their minds we are 90% liable to give them one.

If they lodge a paypal complaint with asking us first there is no chance in hell they will get a refund, we use all the stats mentioned above in my previous post to prove they have logged into get thier product or service

Even if we sell a single product we make them log into get it so we can prove they received it.

(very usefull owning your own membership script so you can achive that)

If you continously admit to fraud by agreeing to a resolution by refund for any such paypal dispute eventually paypal will see you as a risk

Robert

[Robert Puddy]

Originally Posted by new guy

You could still do more with customer service and co-operation. I don't think the issue here is so much in that they held the account.

It it in that they have no desire to try and rectify the problem. Just ignore us until we go away. That it no way to run a business.

Your not reading the posts above...

They employ people especially to assess risk according to thier own merchant account rules. they are being squeezed themselves by the credit card companies to reduce risk. they have no real choice but comply or they loose their own business

No amount of customer service and cooperation can cure that.

The fraud department is the last word, there job is to stop paypals merchant account from being frozen for 180 days. You would be as zealous as they are if your whole business was dependant on you getting the risks right.

Losing your payment processor/ merchant account is the risk of doing business online. Because your customer is not present at the point of sale the risks are huge

Robert

[derekwong28]

Quite frankly, not having PayPal as a payment processor can affect your business, especially if it is webmaster related. Since many prefer to use PayPal over credit cards directly.

If yours was a business account, I would open a personal account or vice-versa. You will need to use a different address and also credit card. Also it may be advisable to use a different ISP when you do it.

But it is important to find out what the reason is why PayPal close your account in the first place. My suspicion is that they did not like the product/services that you were providing.

[Chris Endres]

Hate to point out the obvious but WE ARE WARRIORS

Why not organize as a group and start showing PayPal some of our muscle?

We are capable of generating so much influence that even PayPal could shudder...

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by Chris Endres

Hate to point out the obvious but WE ARE WARRIORS

Why not organize as a group and start showing PayPal some of our muscle?

We are capable of generating so much influence that even PayPal could shudder...

The problem with organizing as a group is that some Warriors peddle stuff that other Warriors wouldn't want to be associated with.

[valerieSONORA]

Well this is ironic, just today I had my paypal account limited. I can't recieve or send money or do anything except add money to the account. (yeah, right)

This better be resolved in a few days.

I had paypal buttons on a site which I didn't know violated their TOS. I was made aware of this and removed all paypal buttons immediately. And I emailed them and told them so.

Then today they send an email saying it still wasn't resolved?! And they limited my acct. and it's under review. So I'm screwed until this gets resolved.

So I took down the site completely. There is no site there at all. I emailed them and told them the site was taken down so hopefully they will restore my acct. asap.

There are other ppl with similar sites to mine that use paypal and haven't been "caught". So I don't know what's up with that.

Now that the site is down, they have nothing to complain about. They had nothing to complain about after I removed all paypal buttons but they still limited my acct. after this for some strange reason I don't understand.

I made a blog for someone recently and they can't pay me until this is resolved. (unless they wanna send a check )

At least they haven't "parted ways" with me yet, but they threatened that if this wasn't resolved they would terminate my acct. So I immediately took down the site.

I hate paypal, but I need paypal

[Globalflow]

Oh the painful memories...

They did that to me with many thousands on frozen hold for a WHOLE 180 days.

OMG - what business speed bump. I use linkpoint now for some stuff. 2CO for others.
AlertPay is up and down, they stopped taking visa and mastercard the other day out of the blue... Merchant accounts and payment processors... oh man...

Franco

[NicheExposed]

dam this sucks. another economic downfall. guess they needed your money more than you do. The great Paypal Buyout! Lol

[VegasVince]

Originally Posted by valerieSONORA

Well this is ironic, just today I had my paypal account limited. I can't recieve or send money or do anything except add money to the account. (yeah, right)

This better be resolved in a few days.

I had paypal buttons on a site which I didn't know violated their TOS. I was made aware of this and removed all paypal buttons immediately. And I emailed them and told them so.

Then today they send an email saying it still wasn't resolved?! And they limited my acct. and it's under review. So I'm screwed until this gets resolved.

So I took down the site completely. There is no site there at all. I emailed them and told them the site was taken down so hopefully they will restore my acct. asap.

There are other ppl with similar sites to mine that use paypal and haven't been "caught". So I don't know what's up with that.

Now that the site is down, they have nothing to complain about. They had nothing to complain about after I removed all paypal buttons but they still limited my acct. after this for some strange reason I don't understand.

I made a blog for someone recently and they can't pay me until this is resolved. (unless they wanna send a check )

At least they haven't "parted ways" with me yet, but they threatened that if this wasn't resolved they would terminate my acct. So I immediately took down the site.

I hate paypal, but I need paypal

No you don't....Valerie. You don't need Pay Pal.

That mindset is exactly why PayPal continues to screw far more honest marketers then dishonest ones.

They do it because THEY CAN. They do it because you people let them do it. They do it because they earn MILLLION OF DOLLARS IN INTEREST ON FROZEN ACCOUNTS!

Again....it's the dirty little secret PayPal doesn't discuss and no one here seems to ever question.

FROZEN ACCOUNTS ARE BIG BUSINESS FOR PAY PAL...THEY MAKE LOTS OF BLING BLING FREEZING FUNDS!

I mentioned back on page 2 of this thread that "...Pay Pal can and will freeze your account for any reason they choose...."

Valerie....you are one of many good Warriors who probably didn't think it could happen to YOU, capiche.

Welcome to reality. Oh yeah...Pay Pal aint exactly FDIC insured either....which basically means they can do what ever they want with your money....when ever they want. That's the price you pay for dealing with the devil.

As I said...PAY PAL freezes the account of honest marketers every single day.

THE POLICY AT PAY PAL IS TO FREEZE X AMOUNT OF ACCOUNTS IN ORDER TO EARN MONEY OFF THOSE FUNDS....KNOWING FULL WELL THEY HOLD ALL THE CARDS. IF THE MARKETER BITCHES....THEY HOLD ALL THE MONEY IN YOUR ACCOUNT FOR 6 MONTHS....AND THEY EARN MONEY FROM THAT. You never see a dime of it, however! That's the fraud...ON THE STREET WE CALL IT "SKIMMING".

You people give this monopoly called Pay Pal way too much credit...and way too much power over your business.

Rather then getting pissed off and finding alternatives...most of you would rather walk back into the hen house so the Fox can eat you for dinner a second time.

I only give someone one chance to screw with my money. Because after that....I'm a dumb ass if I give them a chance to get me again. Most of you....give PayPal way too many chances.

First time...shame on PayPal. Second time...shame on Vegas Vince.

That's why I never used them again....after they stole/froze my account...only to return my money they froze (stole) from me---- after 6 long months. Shame on them! To me...what they did was literally criminal.

If I did it....I'd be in prison.

They earned interest on my money....and I wonder if they reported it on their tax returns....cuz I sure as hell didn't see any interest for their theft.

I didn't even get an apology...after they returned my frozen funds IN FULL.

What a corrupt evil bunch of crooked bastards! Freeze funds...earn interest for 6 months....then return the frozen funds....MINUS the interest. How is that moral or legal?

That's the legal crime pay pal engages in...the one thing the government will probably take them down for eventually....because freezing money for the purpose of earning profits from it....is a crime...even if you return it 6 months later. True.

If I was half the man I use to be...I'd take a flame thrower to the entire company.


xxx Vegas Vince

p.s. Billions and Billions of Dollars Were Made By Marketers Long Before This Pay Pal Posse Rode In To Town.....Remember that before you sell your ass or your soul to them.

[valerieSONORA]

Just got an email from paypal saying my acct was restored. After I completely took down my website. I didn't know anyone there even worked at this hour.

Vince, what do you use to send or receive money online?

You should've called them up and demanded all interest they accrued on your account. I don't see how it's legal for them to take interest on YOUR money. It's not theirs, it's yours so how can they keep it and stay out of legal trouble?

[bozz723]

Here is a great site..

Welcome to PayPalSucks.com, PayPal Lawsuit, PayPal Alternative, PayPal Complaints, Fraud & Evil behind the PayPal system!

[VegasVince]

Originally Posted by valerieSONORA

Just got an email from paypal saying my acct was restored. After I completely took down my website. I didn't know anyone there even worked at this hour.

Vince, what do you use to send or receive money online?

You should've called them up and demanded all interest they accrued on your account. I don't see how it's legal for them to take interest on YOUR money. It's not theirs, it's yours so how can they keep it and stay out of legal trouble?

LOL.

Valerie....don't you get it yet?

Pay Pal is NOT FDIC insured...they can and will do what ever they want with YOUR money.

WHEN PAY PAL FREEZES AN ACCOUNT.....THEY CAN AND WILL HOLD THE MONEY FOR 180 DAYS.....AND THEY DO SO BECAUSE THEY EARN INTEREST ON THE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN FROZEN ACCOUNTS.

Even when they are forced to refund the original funds in full 6 months later......they have already made their "score." That's the crime. That's the fraud.

That's the dirty little secret no one in Pay Pal ever wants you to know! And not one Warrior has ever mentioned this but Vinnie here.

No one here is naive enough to think Pay Pal is stuffing frozen accounts under some mattress, right?

Pay Pal froze my account THE SAME DAY EBAY GAVE ME A POWER SELLER CERTIFICATE!

The nearly $7000 they "held" STOLE from me....was returned in full exactly 6 months later...but only after I had to force them to do so...cuz they wont refund even after 6 months unless YOU REQUEST IT!

NOT one dime of interest was paid to me. Not one. They locked my money up for six months and gave me nothing for my troubles except the money they originally stole. Ya think they might have made a buck or two off my 7K? LOL. Of course they did.

PAY PAL EARNS MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN INTEREST FROM FROZEN ACCOUNTS....BECAUSE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN FROZEN FUNDS OVER 6 MONTHS ADDS UP FAST...CAPICHE!

That's the dirty little secret....and no...it's not legal. And yes...most likely the anti-trust lawsuit that is coming will take them to task for that.

I will be doing my next BTR Radio show on Pay Pal.....and I suspect they will try and stop it...but I aint for sale. And the bastards at Pay Pal are eventually going to have to fess up about what they do with interest earned from accounts they return......without even an apology. I told their lawyers to kiss my ass too...the show goes on. Someone needs to have the balls to step up and expose this ****.

And after two years on this forum...not one Warrior has ever had an explanation for the money PayPal makes off honest Warriors whose funds are frozen and returned. Sad.

xxx Vegas Vince
Legend

[Anomaly1974]

I do not know this Burt Carpenter character and have not had time to search anything yet. However, having lived without paypal for a long time and having been shut down by them in the past for no reason other than they considered a fifty dollar christmas gift from my Mom to be a suspicious transaction (and since I no longer had the same credit card, decided it was in my best interest for them to keep the 350 bucks I had in my account at the time) I know how fragile relationships with them can be. I am using paypal at the moment to rebuild and reestablish myself but I am not making it a career choice and not limiting them as my only option. Once I do get established, I will definitely be looking at the merchant accounts as they are much more user-friendly and able to take a much wider variety of payments than paypal all while offering a certain amount of protection to the buyer and the seller.

I am only in phase two and the second week of building back up from nothing though so it may be a while before I can afford a merchant account, much less justify the expenditures.

Just my two cents.

[Sid Hale]

OK - I should probably keep my mouth shut but...

I choke almost every time I read a post spouting off about illegalities - and the more vehement the poster, the more convinced I am that they don't really know what they're talking about. I'm sure they think they do - but, unfortunately, they are usually only repeating what they've heard somewhere else, or (even more often) expressing their own interpretation of what they've heard.

There is absolutely NOTHING illegal about Paypal, or even an FDIC insured bank, earning interest on monies in your account. Both Paypal AND your own local bank do it every day.

Think about it. Paypal can't earn interest on your account just by freezing it! How does freezing an account automatically generate interest? Who's paying the interest?

Well, it's a long food chain, but eventually... borrowers.

There are laws about the minimum percentage of funds on deposit that must be available in cash (i.e. not invested in money markets, domestic or foreign), but the rest is invested in various financial markets, and earning interest.

Oh - and it doesn't matter whether your account is frozen, or if it's with Paypal or some other financial institution. That's the way they all make money.

Surely you don't think that your local bank offers free checking, free lollipops for your kids at the drive-thru (and maybe even free doggie treats) just so they can HOLD your money. Not hardly. They don't HOLD it. They invest a large percentage of average daily deposits in consumer loans, mortgages, money markets, and foreign exchange markets. Those investments are their primary source of income.

They have to, because you - as a customer - are actually an expense. Handling your funds cost more than they charge you in fees.

Your average daily balance is their source of investment funds. Your funds are the raw material in their factory. A factory that invests your "raw material" to create more cash.

Sorry. I went off topic a little.

The primary point is that all financial institutions create earnings on all monies deposited with them.

Not only is it legal. It's their reason for existence.

[kiwichamp]

I certainly appreciate the comments on this thread. For me it is a wake up call too. I think that it is best to diversify a little, especially these days.

Use paypal perhaps only for those who would like to send funds that way, and another option for credit cards.

Has anyone had any experiences with Alertpay or iKobo? Possible alternatives to Paypal?

[Floyd Fisher]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Okay, here's my question, and I think it's a damn good one.

We are all so quick to accept so much in this world as the "gospel", part of
that being that you must have PayPal to take payments because so many
people will only pay through PayPal.

But is that really true?

I mean do we know this for a fact that if we didn't take PayPal we'd be
screwing ourselves?

Where are the stats?

Where can this be verified?

Or is this just more hearsay that we take as gospel because some big
named guru said it?

Can't we do just as well by going to our bank or wherever and getting our
own merchant account?

I mean for crying out loud, not every site on the Internet takes PayPal and
some of them are darn successful.

If I'm not mistaken, I don't think Aweber takes PayPal.

Doesn't seem to be hurting them much.

Point is, so what if PayPal tells us goodbye?

Are they really the only game in town?

Steve:

If you have a bankruptcy that cleared the courts in Nov of 2002 like I do, then I'd have to give that the old Steve Austin 'hell yeah'. No merchant in their right mind would ever give me a merchant account for any amount, especially in this current credit crunch. Heck, I can't even get a retail store card like Sears, how many laughs do you think a decent merchant provider would have with my application?

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

Steve:

If you have a bankruptcy that cleared the courts in Nov of 2002 like I do, then I'd have to give that the old Steve Austin 'hell yeah'. No merchant in their right mind would ever give me a merchant account for any amount, especially in this current credit crunch. Heck, I can't even get a retail store card like Sears, how many laughs do you think a decent merchant provider would have with my application?

Try Credit Card Processing, Merchant Accounts, Accept Credit Cards

Seriously. They do merch accounts with hard credit and/or tough business models.

[wolfmonk]

Thanks for sharing Scott.

Probably at one point in time a large biz becomes so much of a machine, so it's easier for them to rip you off than take a closer look at their own biz processes and rules.

If you prove them wrong, you'll create a precedent that they CAN be wrong... which they are not willing to accept.

[Floyd Fisher]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

Try Credit Card Processing, Merchant Accounts, Accept Credit Cards

Seriously. They do merch accounts with hard credit and/or tough business models.

Michael:

Do you use them?

Some questions:

1. What is the monthly fees?

2. Can I offer a 1 year guarantee on my products (I hate the 60 day limitations I have right now) with no problems?

[Chris Lockwood]

Originally Posted by koolwarrior

You're making them pay for an product that can't be accessed after they pay. If you're going to charge for something they can't get right away, it better be a physical one...or else they'll shut you down thinking you're laundering money.

Hell, if I were running a CC-like service, and I saw thousands of bucks flowing thru, and no one's getting a thing (physical/digital), I'd shut you down too, to be hoenst.

I wouldn't want the feds raiding my office over something someone was doing that NO ONE knows about.

Wow, that's over the top! Did you realize PayPal was created for the purpose of sending money to friends?

It's commonly used for paying affiliate commissions and paying for services. "Service" is even one of the categories you can choose when using the "send money" feature.

If I were selling services for 4 figures or higher, I might avoid Paypal to avoid their fees and so on, but there's nothing wrong as far as their TOS is concerned with using it for things like that.

Ditto for digital products- why would their buttons have a field for a download page if the service was not supposed to be used for selling digital products?