FOR BOOK PUBLISHERS & AUTHORS: Google, publishers shelve book-scanning suit

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Here is the full story:

Google, publishers shelve book-scanning suit | www.wsbtv.com

Draw your own conclusions...

I'd be interested in your thoughts...

I know the article isn't comprehensive on all the facts, but I can understand why the publishers and authors are bringing different kinds of suits against Google. They are making "digital copies" of author's e-books without their permission.

Yes, many of these no longer have copyright protection and are fair game, however there are still plenty of books that Google is copying that ARE protected by copyright law. Yet, Google contends they have a right to create such a library which is covered by the "fair-use" provisions. Here's a snippet of that article:

Google has maintained that its scanning is covered by fair-use provisions of copyright law, although it offered to remove specific books from its index upon request. It also showed only snippets of the copyrighted books unless permission was given to show more.

Publishers and authors, however, insisted that Google needed explicit permission from them before making the digital copies, let alone showing even snippets of text from the books on Google's website.

I know if Google made a digital copy of any of my e-books without my permission, I would definitely be up in arms.

Here is another troubling snippet from the article:

One of the biggest sticking points in the authors' case revolves around the rights to millions of out-of-print books that are still protected by copyright but whose writers' whereabouts are unknown.

The prospect that Google could gain a digital monopoly on these so-called "orphan works" was one of the main reasons that the Justice Department and other objectors urged Chin to scotch the earlier $125 million settlement with publishers and authors. Chin rejected the agreement in 2010.

So on both these notes I'm glad Chin rejected the settlement agreement with Google because they were getting off way too easily. The class action lawsuit is worth at least a few billion. Google is a publicly traded company and as such will do whatever it can to make a profit.

I don't know about you, but this surely ticks me off.

RoD

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Michael Ten

12 years ago

I think that that is good. I would not be surprised if more suits happen in the future though, although maybe they won't.

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tpw

12 years ago

Rod: You seem to have the same issues I did.

It strikes me that Google is going to place these digital copies on Google Play as paid, downloadable books, and they are potentially taking my books and profiting from them without my consent.

In doing so, they could be undercutting me when I am selling my books. If I have taken my print book and put it into Kindle at 8.97, what is to stop Google from selling my book at Google Play for $0.79??

And if people find my books on Google Play listed at a price that is far less than what I have chosen to sell my books, then people may choose to buy from Google Play instead of from an authorized marketplace, cutting me completely out of the picture.

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Rod Cortez

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Rod: You seem to have the same issues I did.

It strikes me that Google is going to place these digital copies on Google Play as paid, downloadable books, and they are potentially taking my books and profiting from them without my consent.

In doing so, they could be undercutting me when I am selling my books. If I have taken my print book and put it into Kindle at 8.97, what is to stop Google from selling my book at Google Play for $0.79??

And if people find my books on Google Play listed at a price that is far less than what I have chosen to sell my books, then people may choose to buy from Google Play instead of from an authorized marketplace, cutting me completely out of the picture.

This where I have a disconnect with Goolge, thinking this is okay under the fair provisions part of copyright law, which admittedly, I'm not an expert in, however it still smells foul to me. Like WITHeck are they thinking?

It's Google thumbing their nose not just at the law, but pissing off a lot of writers and publishers (a whole industry mind you) who have worked incredibly hard in many cases to write their original works.

Putting the onus on authors to opt-out is ridiculous. The article alludes to more potential lawsuits; I see the same thing. This is going to be interesting to watch. It also opens my eyes, once again, on how the Internet along with "digital" goods has really complicated both our legal and business environment.

It makes my head spin sometimes. I'm going to have some tequila shots now.

RoD

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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

I thought I read that under the new agreement, publishers have the right to request that Google remove their book from their collection.

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I thought I read that under the new agreement, publishers have the right to request that Google remove their book from their collection.

You read that correctly, but they have also said that they will require the author to take action to opt-out, which means that if I don't contact, they will sell my book with or without my permission.

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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

You read that correctly, but they have also said that they will require the author to take action to opt-out, which means that if I don't contact, they will sell my book with or without my permission.

Yep. I read that too and it's wrong. You should not have to perform an action to keep someone else from publishing and selling your book. Period. It should be that you have to OPT IN to allow Google to publish it. I don't know how Google gets away with it.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

You should not have to perform an action to keep someone else from publishing and selling your book. Period. It should be that you have to OPT IN to allow Google to publish it. I don't know how Google gets away with it.

This. Exactly.

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aprilm

12 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yep. I read that too and it's wrong. You should not have to perform an action to keep someone else from publishing and selling your book. Period. It should be that you have to OPT IN to allow Google to publish it. I don't know how Google gets away with it.

My thoughts exactly.

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

So, here's one solution: Register the copyright to your work.

If Google then distributes more than fair use-sized snippets without prior permission, there's a problem. If they make the full work available, it is my understanding that they would be immediately liable for punitive damages, which can be non-trivial amounts. (I believe they'd start in the 6-figure range, but I could be mistaken on that.)

I'd appreciate if the legal folk could correct/adjust anything I may have gotten wrong there.

Paul

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

So, here's one solution: Register the copyright to your work.

If Google then distributes more than fair use-sized snippets without prior permission, there's a problem. If they make the full work available, it is my understanding that they would be immediately liable for punitive damages, which can be non-trivial amounts. (I believe they'd start in the 6-figure range, but I could be mistaken on that.)

I'd appreciate if the legal folk could correct/adjust anything I may have gotten wrong there.

Paul

Yeah, I'd love to hear the thoughts of our friendly local legal consultant.

I think you are right, but I am not certain of my belief.

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JustVisiting

12 years ago

Copyright notices specifically prohibit what Google have been doing! What were their legal department thinking?

No part of this book may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, recording, or by any information storage and retrieval system without express written permission from the author / publisher.

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JustVisiting

Copyright notices specifically prohibit what Google have been doing! What were their legal department thinking?

No part of this book may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, recording, or by any information storage and retrieval system without express written permission from the author / publisher.

Large companies tend to make decisions based on whether they can still profit in spite of any litigation that might come down based on their actions or inactions.

I tend to believe that Google knew exactly what it was doing in this case, and they felt that they could profit, even if they got splattered in the courts over copyright infringement.

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JohnMcCabe

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JustVisiting

Copyright notices specifically prohibit what Google have been doing! What were their legal department thinking?

No part of this book may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, recording, or by any information storage and retrieval system without express written permission from the author / publisher.

Their legal department was obviously taking advice from many of the forum lawyers around here, who chime in telling people to break the law and worry about it if/when they got caught.

That advice?

"It's easier to say you're sorry than to ask permission."

Google gets away with it because they're fighting in the same weight class as their opponents, in the case with the publishers, and coming way down (think heavyweight vs. flyweight Golden Gloves local) in the case of individual authors.

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jacktackett

12 years ago

As a published author I'm totally against what Google is doing like others here. If they are even allowed to continue then we should have to OPT-IN i.e. give our permission to have our works included, not contact them and opt out.

Their excuse, fair use, is a slipper slope and they have to know that, but it takes $$$ to sue in the US and Google knows they have the $$$ and most out of print authors don't. IANAL but my understanding of fair use is the only one that can truly make that decision is a judge - not an author and not the person claiming fair use.

Fingers crossed that the Author's Guild and others continue to hammer away to prevent this.

best,
--Jack

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FOR BOOK PUBLISHERS & AUTHORS: Google, publishers shelve book-scanning suit

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