Top 5 IM Scams--Add To My List!

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We've all been a victim of some kind of either misleading, or--out and out full-blown scam from one Internet marketer or another.

Just for fun, I thought I'd list my top 5 prickly points I run into time and time again. Read 'em and weep. Add you own pet peeves if you'd like. I would like to read what gets under your skin as well. Let's take a ride.

NUMBER 1
"Hey Mike, got the link fixed."


I get dozens of these a day. Apparently the people, which include many well known marketers, think that others have never seen this one before--so they keep using it over and over.

You get an email one day from a guru which is essentially filler text punctuated with a plethora of affiliate links to some product they are promoting. The next day you get a follow up email which begins with the header, LINK FIXED. The email states that the link they provided you with yesterday wasn't working, but they've fixed it now and want you to take a look at it.

Yeah, right. It's just a way for them to send out exactly the same email two days in a row without you accusing them of spamming you. I don't know how stupid they think we are, but apparently it is pretty dog gone stupid!

NUMBER 2
"The bonuses I offer when you order through a link on my page are worth a total of $1,945."


Come on, stop bull-sh*tting me fella. If your bonuses are worth that much, why aren't you selling them instead of pushing the $27 product on your pre-sell page. Get a freaking life. Apparently most affiliate marketers depend on the gullibility of visitors to their site. Maybe you can profit form this technique. A lot of gurus use it. Me? I've got too much pride in the bonuses I develop myself to resort to this.

NUMBER 3
"Get Top Google Rankings."

This is a cute little trick but one I have too much pride to ever use myself. The site owner claims they can get top Google rankings for whatever term they choose. They show you a search term and, sure enough--they have a top Google ranking. But look at their search term. The only thing that matters, and I mean the only thing, is this: Can they get a top Google ranking for a popular product using the exact name of the product and that exact name only for a money page (a page with a direct link to a publisher's product)?

Feeder sites don't matter. Articles are the easiest thing in the world to get top Google rankings for in the world. But most article directories, such as eZineArticles don't allow affiliate links in resource boxes.

The other trick is for them to include one very highly searched term in their search phrase and then tack on another word or two. Their listing is not based upon anyone searching for their exact term, it is a result for people searching for the highly searched term they have put in their search phrase. If you put their search phrase in parentheses you see that there are very few pages returned for the same search phrase on Google. Misleading from the word go!

TRICK 4
Testimonials

If you visit very many of the pitch pages for products put out by the gurus you will notice one thing that stands out like a sore thumb. The first thing is that usually the vast majority of their testimonials come from JV partners doing massive mailings for them. If you are in on the product launch and can access the leader board, you will see that many of the names appearing on their leader board have also provided great testimonials for the product. It's a little misleading but I can understand why it's done.

The other thing you will notice is that you will find some testimonials from "average" individuals. However, if you surf the popular product sites you will find that there are dozens of individuals who submit comments to every new product that comes out. Why? Because many publishers will include the name of the person giving the testimonial as well as their web site.

There is a group of professional testimonial writers out there who submit testimonials for every single product in hopes to get some buzz for their site by getting their testimonials in sales pages for popular products. These are some reasons why I give very little credence to any testimonials at all.

TRICK 5
Clickbank earnings shots for 2-3 days.

Those don't impress me. There are a number of ways this can be gamed. First, any guru or "almost guru" with a mailing list of 10,000 names or more can generate fairly substantial sales whenever they wish simply by promoting a new product launch. And--if it is a high-ticket product of a thousand dollars or more, all they need to do is sell a product or two for a series of 2-3 days.

The other thing, a little more devious, is as follows. Suppose you were to invest $2,000 a day for some PPC campaigns and overbid to the extent you get top position for 3-4 popular products out there. You know that you will lose money, but suppose you can bring in$1,200 a day (even though you are spending $2,000 a day). There you have it--you have earnings statements you can show where you are making $1,200 a day (even though you actually lost $800 a day getting them. But if you have a big product launch coming up where you need earnings statemens, the $800 a day you lost each day over a 2-3 day period is peanuts.

What do you think--got any favorites of your own?
#list #scams #scamsadd #top
  • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
    I think you'd be better off working on your business than writing stuff like this. I could rebut all of those, but why waste my time?
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

      I think you'd be better off working on your business than writing stuff like this. I could rebut all of those, but why waste my time?
      I'd like to see you rebut #1. The same marketers use that technique over and over again on their lists.

      Mistakes happen. But, when the same "mistake" repeatedly happens, you have to wonder about the marketer...

      If the link in the first message was correct, then the follow-up eMail is a lie. If the first link was incorrect, and they repeatedly send out bad links on their initial messages, then they're incompetent.

      In either of those cases, the marketer is NOT building credibility with his or her list members.
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    • Profile picture of the author SeanyG
      Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

      I think you'd be better off working on your business than writing stuff like this.
      Agreed.........
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason James
      Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

      I think you'd be better off working on your business than writing stuff like this. I could rebut all of those, but why waste my time?
      Totally agreed.... Mike you are obviously mad or bitter about something, maybe you arent making enough money and you are frustrated? Maybe you want to be a guru and it isnt working out? You obviously are putting your energies in the wrong place.

      Imagine if you spend all the time you dedicated to writing and responding to this post to building your business, you would be so much farther ahead. Instead you are polluting the Warrior Forum with negativity. And those who reply shame on you for encouraging him and spreading more negativity.

      And how are these "scams"? Scams to me are when someone steals my money and dissappears. Just as an example, if someone whos list I VOLUNTARILY joined sends me out an extra email saying they sent me the wrong link and its been fixed now, then great... i'd be understanding and go check it out.

      I could rebute all of your points but ive already wasted enough time. If you don't like being on certain marketers email lists.. unsubscribe... if you dont like the sales letters you see from certain marketers dont view them.

      In fact why not just get out of internet marketing all together, it will save you a lot of headaches buddy.
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      • Profile picture of the author edhan
        Originally Posted by Jason James View Post

        Imagine if you spend all the time you dedicated to writing and responding to this post to building your business, you would be so much farther ahead. Instead you are polluting the Warrior Forum with negativity. And those who reply shame on you for encouraging him and spreading more negativity.
        Agreed! We should be having more positive mind when it comes to online business. Everyone should start building up business with all the positive mindset and that will bring us forward. Instead of creating more negative impression, we should all be looking positively. That will help us to increase business profit.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
          Leave it to me to jump in after everyone's gotten all touchy-feely about the discussion, but I've been putting my thoughts together all morning (off and on--I've done real work in the meantime!) and, well, I'll still throw my opinion out there, as my opinion is that such tactics are examples of bad marketing, if you want to consider them marketing at all...

          Misleading people for financial gain is a form of scamming. So, technically, the methods the OP described can be considered scams.

          Still, "scam" may be a bit harsh, as, in popular use, it's used more for the major scams, ones where you lose money and/or your product or service and don't receive anything in return.

          At any rate, the practices described by the OP, with the possible exception of #4 are definitely deceptive.

          Yet, people defend those tactics as "marketing." Move on, some of you are even saying. No big deal.

          But, I submit to you that these are not good marketing practices.

          #1 The Broken Link Ploy

          As I mentioned in an earlier comment, sometimes mistakes happen. And, when they do, of course you want to send out another message noting the correction.

          But, very often, this is a tactic and not the result of a mistake. The same marketers making the broken link "mistake" again and again? Puh-lease.

          If their product is so great and they don't want people to miss out on it, say so. They could send a message with a legitimate reason for sending a second message. I'm okay with a message saying they didn't want me to miss out or that they hoped I didn't overlook their message or something. I'm not okay with them lying to me in order to try to generate a sale. That is misleading and deceitful.

          #2 Over-Valued Bonuses

          Seriously, if the bonuses were worth almost two thousand dollars, or whatever inflated amount they may be listed at, they'd be selling them at that price. Free bonuses are great. But, seriously, why can't they list them at reasonable and believable prices? Have they sold them separately at those high prices? Did they make any sales? What was the refund rate?

          #3 & #5 Deceptive Ratings/Income

          Again, deceitful and misleading.

          As some have suggested, you could simply unsubscribe from the lists of marketers using these tactics, but that's not really the point, is it? It's kind of like knowing a restaurant's kitchen is infested with rats and cockroaches, but not telling anyone about it because, after all, no one is forcing people to eat there. It's their own fault for not knowing the kitchen is a cesspool, no?

          If people can't sell to customers on the value and benefits of their product or service, and have to resort to using such tactics to make sales, maybe they should consider hiring a better copywriter.

          On the other hand, maybe people have to resort to tactics such as these because their products are garbage and the only way to sell them to others is by misleading them. If people are using these tactics to "market" their products, maybe it's because their products are nothing more than virtual snake oil.

          I'm sorry, but how can anyone defend the use of such tactics? And to justify the use of them on the unsuspecting, just because they fall for it--seriously? It's no wonder businesspeople and marketers get a bad name in this day and age.

          Elsewhere on this forum, people frequently talk about thinking about your Internet marketing business for the long-term and developing relationships with customers, for long-term growth and sales. People frequently discourage the "get rich quick" mentality. Well, with these kinds of tactics, what kind of relationships are such marketers building with their customers? Ones based on misleading statements, deception and even outright lies? What kind of long-term relationship will that lead to?

          I understand that some people got upset with calling these tactics scams, but, whether you call them scams or deceptive marketing tactics or whatever, they are indefensible. There is no good reason for a legitimate marketer with a quality product to lie or deceive people in order to make a sale. Hype is one thing; lies and deception are quite another.

          If some people's "success" depends on deception and misleading others, maybe they shouldn't be in business. Perhaps they should consider a career more suited to their skills, like politics.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
            Banned
            Man, the more I read this forum the more this market seems so jaded. It is pretty sad really.

            Anyway, back to working on my business.
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    • Profile picture of the author koolwarrior
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

      I think you'd be better off working on your business than writing stuff like this. I could rebut all of those, but why waste my time?
      Why are there so many HATERS on this forum? It's really getting disgusting! Don't hate...CONGRATULATE!

      And while you're up, jumping and congratulating...go grab me a beer...
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  • Profile picture of the author Traffic101
    LOL...great list. I haven't experienced all these scam emails...but a couple of them ring true.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    "I think you'd be better off working on your business than writing stuff like this. I could rebut all of those, but why waste my time?"

    They are not rebuttable.
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    • Profile picture of the author IMChick
      Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

      I think you'd be better off working on your business than writing stuff like this. I could rebut all of those, but why waste my time?
      I'm with you on this one, Chris.

      Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

      I'd like to see you rebut #1. The same marketers use that technique over and over again on their lists.

      Mistakes happen. But, when the same "mistake" repeatedly happens, you have to wonder about the marketer...

      If the link in the first message was correct, then the follow-up eMail is a lie. If the first link was incorrect, and they repeatedly send out bad links on their initial messages, then they're incompetent.

      In either of those cases, the marketer is NOT building credibility with his or her list members.
      Naah, not a credibility or incompetency question--poor guys, they don't have the right kind of tech support available. It's very obvious that all of them use the same launch infrastructure, and that it keeps crapping the bed for all of them...
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  • Profile picture of the author cncbuss
    Yeah, I can't stand #2 - Get bonus material worth well in excess of $2,000 by signing up today for only $27. And there's always the reason that someone screwed up and placed huge order and ended up with too many of this or that and now the material iss being discounted! Come on, give me a break!

    I think the "gurus" who are always pushing you to 'get over there right now before it expires' or tell you that they'll change their mind and up the price soon are very pushy and may actually be hurting their own sales figures. At least in my decision-making process. But if that's what they've decided sells, then let them do it.

    For me, I like a no pressure sales approach with no B.S. and no hyped-up cash promises. But that's just me...
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    #6 Mis-defining of words such as 'scam' to generate more interest, create controversy, or to fit a certain situation.
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    • Profile picture of the author stevenh512
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      #6 Mis-defining of words such as 'scam' to generate more interest, create controversy, or to fit a certain situation.
      lol.. nice one

      While I'll agree with the op that all of those things on his list can be used in very deceptive ways and they do get pretty annoying, I wouldn't go as far as calling them scams.. and anyone who honestly believes those are the "Top 5 IM Scams" needs to get out there more and see some of the real scams that have been going on for years.

      At least with these 5 so-called scams, you get what you paid for if you end up buying.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rahul_TLV
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

      I think you'd be better off working on your business than writing stuff like this. I could rebut all of those, but why waste my time?
      Correction: He'd be better off working on his business AND AVOIDING doing the same weak 90's marketing techniques...

      ...take advantage of all the cowboys online and do what they do, without the crap, lies and deceit and you'll do well for yourself.

      Well, that's what I do anyway.
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      • Profile picture of the author webpromotions
        Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

        Correction: He'd be better off working on his business AND AVOIDING doing the same weak 90's marketing techniques...

        ...take advantage of all the cowboys online and do what they do, without the crap, lies and deceit and you'll do well for yourself.

        Well, that's what I do anyway.
        Finally...a sensible response to one of these types of threads.

        It seems like everyone wants to just jump on the 'this is another thread about a marketer who doesn't want to be marketed to' bandwagon, when that usually isn't the case. This OP just wants to be marketed to in a respectful and honest manner.

        If he didn't want to be marketed to, he wouldn't be on these lists to begin with.
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  • Profile picture of the author ideasuniversity
    No 6: Your affliate earnings. You will think you have made some money as an affliate untill you open the email to discover you are receiving a sales letter promoting a product
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  • Profile picture of the author omojustice
    That's marketing tactics they call it! If you can't beat them, you join them.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanvhamer
    You have to remember you are a seasoned IM. You know all of the tactics. Each day thousands of of new unsuspecting potential customers come online for the first time. So these techniques would work for those that are completely oblivious to them. They have never been marketed to in such away so they'll bite hook line and sinker and not feel at all offended or scamed. As an internet marketer we would have a certain "spider sense" when we see things but the virgin surfer outside the world of IM has no clue. I'd say it may be annoying to people like you but I see it and am glad I can pick up on the techniques and common themes at play whenever I see them. There was a thread on here a couple of days back....you know your're an internet marketer when......you start picking apart sales letters and campaigns....
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
    Sheesh,

    I can relate to every one of these...

    But, I am a cynical doo-dah.

    FYI, I hate the "whoops, I got the link wrong" emails...the 2nd time I see them.

    1. Aren't you a stupid basta.., then?
    2. I don't care anymore
    3. Sorry

    Accidents happen, for sure.

    Doesn't mean I think you're any less of a schmuck when you make the same mistake twice.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TomWilson
    Well perhaps I'm just a bit on the skeptical and pessimistic, but I refuse to read testimonials in sales letters and sites and skip all the hyped up and exaggerated claims and propaganda going stuff to the stuff that tells me what it is, how it functions, and the price nearly always. At 45 years old I have enough experience under my belt to never believe any of the claims of how fast or how easy something supposedly is. So I buying anything IM prepared for it to fail then when it does I'm not disappointed and when it succeeds either close to or as advertised I'm the first to sing its praises.

    Its rare that I get scammed, because I full believe little of what I hear and even less of what I read.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post

    NUMBER 3
    "Get Top Google Rankings."

    The only thing that matters, and I mean the only thing, is this: Can they get a top Google ranking for a popular product using the exact name of the product and that exact name only for a money page (a page with a direct link to a publisher's product)?
    Call me cynical but when you post that and have a signature promoting your own WSO which has massive bold colored text saying:

    "My Search Terms
    Are The Exact
    Product Names Only!"

    It does look a little like you have an ulterior motive than just shooting the breeze with these superficial potshots at lame marketing.
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    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    From Razer Rage, "However, the fact is, is that ALL of the things you have listed are perfectly legitimate in of themselves. It's how the marketers use them that makes it unethical."

    Yeah, I agree with that. They are not illegal, just annoying to me. Like someone said above, we are all familiar with these things--but there are a lot of newbies out there who are not. I think that every time a customer out there feels they have been misled, it reflects to some degree on all of us.

    I guess it's just a matter of where to draw the line and we all draw that line in slightly different places. While I may not agree with everyone's perspective, I do understand them. Thanks for the comments.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Feeder sites don't matter.
    What... they sure as heck do. Articles matter as well and, like you say, they are the easiest to get good rankings for. As for affiliate links in your article bio boxes, you are way behind the times my friend. Everyone knows you point your bio boxes to your landing pages on your own website to build a list first.

    I'd love to hear why you think feeder sites don't matter?

    I'm cutting this short before I regret what I'm about to type

    Mike Hill

    PS. With all the newbies that aren't familiar with these tactics as you so eloquently pointed out then you are just as much to blame for making them think these things are "Scams" when clearly, they are not.

    PPS. Nice how all the things you call "Scams" are competing for attention of your WSO... So here's a new one for ya:

    #7: When people call something a scam just to make their own product look better but in fact the only one they are fooling is themselves. nice sig file BTW... ROFL


    Here's another thing, have you ever heard of a tildy search? I'm not about to explain it to you but it does explain why smart marketers use other words besides just the products name. Figure this one out and you'll see what I'm talking about.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    I want to respond to some of your comments Mike. First, cool down a bit bud. I'm at my computer many hours a day. Sometimes I take a break and come here to learn things from people just like you Mike, and--to interact a bit.

    You don't have to explain the tilde search and the condescending attitude is unwarranted. But the fact of the matter is that the average person, doing a search for a product review, simply types in the name of the product.

    "#7: When people call something a scam just to make their own product look better but in fact the only one they are fooling is themselves."

    Not only am I not fooling myself, but I am not fooling my customers either. I am actually quite proud of that.

    On feeder sites. Mike, of course you are right about that. And yes, they are used to "feed" traffic to sites to build lists. I mean, I can't disagree with that at all. What I was referring to was the fact that if your primary goal is to generate a sale, that having a feeder site show at #1 on Google is not nearly as important as having your money page show there. I think you'd agree with that.

    But related to what you said, yes--of course feeder sites are important. They are all important. I'd like to have feeders as well as sales pages on the front of Google. If my goal is list building I want them at the top of Google to get opt-ins.

    I feel bad about your post Mike. I feel bad because I've read a lot of your stuff and learned some good things from you. I've respected you as an authority here. And yet, I do stand by my comments. Hope we can part friends. It would mean a lot to me. My Best--M. McMillan
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Hmmm... I guess it does sound a little harsh, sorry I didn't mean for it to sound that way (been a long day) I guess the blood started to boil when I saw the word "Scam" in your title but this has nothing to do with scams...

      Anyway, I do like the fact you put a lot of time and energy into your affiliate marketing system and are well organized (that's half the battle).

      Mike Hill



      Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post

      I want to respond to some of your comments Mike. First, cool down a bit bud. I'm at my computer many hours a day. Sometimes I take a break and come here to learn things from people just like you Mike, and--to interact a bit.

      You don't have to explain the tilde search and the condescending attitude is unwarranted. But the fact of the matter is that the average person, doing a search for a product review, simply types in the name of the product.

      "#7: When people call something a scam just to make their own product look better but in fact the only one they are fooling is themselves."

      Not only am I not fooling myself, but I am not fooling my customers either. I am actually quite proud of that.

      On feeder sites. Mike, of course you are right about that. And yes, they are used to "feed" traffic to sites to build lists. I mean, I can't disagree with that at all. What I was referring to was the fact that if your primary goal is to generate a sale, that having a feeder site show at #1 on Google is not nearly as important as having your money page show there. I think you'd agree with that.

      But related to what you said, yes--of course feeder sites are important. They are all important. I'd like to have feeders as well as sales pages on the front of Google. If my goal is list building I want them at the top of Google to get opt-ins.

      I feel bad about your post Mike. I feel bad because I've read a lot of your stuff and learned some good things from you. I've respected you as an authority here. And yet, I do stand by my comments. Hope we can part friends. It would mean a lot to me. My Best--M. McMillan
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  • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
    Scam #8 - Posting 1 liner replies (like mine) just so I can get more people
    to see my sig file.

    Scam #9 - Making blanket statements that everyone that does what you listed above
    has ill intentions and is doing them just to do them.

    "I Never Just Do Things Just To Do Them" - Rick James, Chappelle Show

    Scam #10 - Polluting the naive minds of newbies trying to figure this whole make
    money online thing out by browsing this forum.

    Too bad they came across this thread but hopefully they have an abundance mentality
    opposed to this scarcity minded thinking.

    Cheers,
    Jason Dinner
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  • Profile picture of the author John Bowie
    Server Crash! That really p**ses me off. They've been sooo inundated with their various butterfly deals that they NEVER anticipated demand would be just sooo heavy. Sorry, sorry. God, give me a break.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by sandhill View Post

      Server Crash! That really p**ses me off. They've been sooo inundated with their various butterfly deals that they NEVER anticipated demand would be just sooo heavy. Sorry, sorry. God, give me a break.
      Have you ever launched a product were 5,000 people all hit the page at the same time wanting to order? Until you have then you have no idea the amount of resources you will need to balance the load.

      There's a lot of technical stuff happening that you don't see. It's not as simple as putting up an order link.

      Mike Hill
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      • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
        Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

        Have you ever launched a product were 5,000 people all hit the page at the same time wanting to order? Until you have then you have no idea the amount of resources you will need to balance the load.

        There's a lot of technical stuff happening that you don't see. It's not as simple as putting up an order link.

        Mike Hill
        Dude, it's not even worth trying to explain. Their mind is already made up.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
          Originally Posted by jasondinner View Post

          Dude, it's not even worth trying to explain. Their mind is already made up.

          Hey Jason,

          I think I'm going to try that on my upcoming launch... Just plop an order button in the center of the page when it goes live after the pre-launch.

          Then I'll see how many people complain when they don't have a clue what they are buying... Man that would be funny (Have a little message in 8 point type saying "Sorry but there is no sales page to tell you what you are getting exactly because I didn't want to overload the servers. That's why this text is in 8point type...)

          LOL

          Mike Hill
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
          This is really a retarded argument if you think about it....

          First of all, what difference does it make if a marketer does all of the things in the original posters message? Who gives a shit, really? If you don't like the tactics, unsubscribe. What is that so hard for people to do?

          Second of all, Why do people try to act like when the things in the post are done that they are "mistakes" or unintentional? I think we all know that is bullshit. I've only had one marketer send me a "oops wrong link" email that was legitimate -- that was Jason Moffatt. But, even if it is just a way to get the message read again -- WHO CARES???? It's marketing, right?

          The sooner that people learn to stop complaining about things and paying attention to what works, the better off they will be.

          Do you think that bonuses don't make people more sales? If you really think that, then you need to ask someone to lend you some brain cells.

          Do you think that the "oops wrong link" message doesn't get your email read again and equal more money in your pocket? If you do, please see my advice above...

          Sure, a lot of these things are marketing tactics, but again -- WHO CARES.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ray Erdmann
        Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

        Have you ever launched a product were 5,000 people all hit the page at the same time wanting to order? Until you have then you have no idea the amount of resources you will need to balance the load.

        There's a lot of technical stuff happening that you don't see. It's not as simple as putting up an order link.

        Mike Hill
        The 1st time you have a massive launch...fine...understandable...but the 2nd, 3rd and 4th times....nah bud!...sorry...annoying as hell....!!

        Why is it possible that as a 'marketer', you can think outside of the box to find a new way to market a product/service, but at the same time, you can't think 'out side of the box' within your own organization and put up the necessary 'safe guards' to ENSURE that you don't encounter server issues?

        HOWEVER, at the same time I receive these very same emails, I also know that NOT EVERYONE on that mailing list getting that same email is not as apt at IM'ing, so it's probably going to help ensure a few more sales from the 'newbies' then from a more seasoned IM'er who also reads that very same email.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Bowie
    OK, so let's just accept that the B***S*** is really just "marketing" and go ahead and buy, right? Or unsubscribe, as the case may be. Trouble is, when you know there's a whole lot of tired crap going on that every marketer since Adam has been doing, doesn't it just get a little stretching of those hired brain cells?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Sandhill,

      Don't take this the wrong way...

      But, seriously what difference does it make?

      Don't even read the emails...Don't subscribe to lists....Don't buy anything.

      I'm not saying this because I use these "tricks" because I don't. Hell, ask anyone on my mailing list, they are lucky to get one email from me a month. Sometimes not even that.

      But, I don't get the " damn gurus are out to get us" mentality that so many people have.

      Allow me to let you and everyone else in on a little secret...one that hardly anyone knows apparently...ready for it?

      If you opt-in to someones list they are going to send you emails and try to sell you stuff!

      Along the way they are going to do things to try to improve their conversion rates and make more money.

      Selfish Guru *******s!
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      • Profile picture of the author DonDavis
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post


        But, seriously what difference does it make?
        The difference it makes is that the B.S. marketing increases people's skepticism to a point where they won't buy into anything. They get into a mindset where they don't trust a good marketing package (proposal/product etc) if it is presented to them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
          Don,

          Originally Posted by DonDavis View Post

          The difference it makes is that the B.S. marketing increases people's skepticism to a point where they won't buy into anything. They get into a mindset where they don't trust a good marketing package (proposal/product etc) if it is presented to them.
          I understand what you are saying...Really, I do.

          However, griping on message boards isn't going to put a dent in these things. The only way that the tactics will change is when the money stops flowing.

          When I first started getting on some mailing lists, some of the stuff would get to me a bit too - But, that is the reason that these days, I'm only on 3 or 4 mailing lists maybe.

          If everyone would stick to being on lists of marketers that they trust, respect, and are interested in...everything would be right in the world.

          Instead, people run around downloading every free report that they can find, give their email in exchange and then complain about getting emails. And they don't just complain about the things the original poster listed. They complain about..

          • The font of the emails
          • The subject lines
          • The frequency emails get sent
          • The fact that marketers pitch other peoples products
          • The fact that they marketer doesn't give any more "free" info
          The list is really endless.

          Bottom line, if you don't want to deal with marketers and marketing tactics stop downloading their free reports and videos. Problem solved.

          The majority of this post wasn't meant for you Don. I was just talking in general
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  • Profile picture of the author DonDavis
    Yes sir. Please understand that I am not necessarily making it a point to gripe about it. I am on many lists and look forward to the mail I receive. I don't have time to read it all naturally, but the good ones get my attention and I check them out to see what they are up to.

    From the mailings I receive, I sometimes get an idea for a promotion of my own, and often I am made aware of a product that I can promote to a list of my own. There are a few nuggets here and there in these mailings, but of course most are dribble. It's a great way to see who is on their game and who can't even find the ballpark.

    I see subscribing to the lists as an opportunity for education. But I can also see how someone could read some of this stuff and wonder how stupid the sender must think you are. It's all about keeping it in perspective really... isn't it?
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  • Profile picture of the author commonsense4
    This is quite interesting as I never thought many of these points would be considered as scams. I am a newbie to Internet Marketing and I have seen many of these done however I do not believe that they are scams. The testimonial statements may be real, the bonuses may be worth that much, the possibilities are endless. I believe the core importance should be focused on the product itself, does it do what it is suppose to do? Is that e-book explaining the information it said it would do?

    Also do these points work and bring in a successful amount of sales? There is a big chance that they are effectively working.

    Those are the more important factors to look into than the sales tactics. I do receive sales letters and emails however I signed up to receive the newsletter or report as I was curious in learning more of how selling IM products work. I believe that like many others have said here it comes down to perspective and everyone does see and analyze things differently.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheWatcher
    Internet Marketing is worlds away the more heavily regulated industries where ANY claim has to be fully supported and referenced, and where your competitors can have your ads pulled if they object to the way you've WORDED them.
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  • Profile picture of the author DonDavis
    The day is coming when the feds will put the hammer down on some of this crap. It has too.

    Dude- your picture freaks me out a little bit. Just sayin'...
    (I wouldn't say that unless I thought that was your intent)
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  • Profile picture of the author jayden.fellze
    I also am bombarded with lots of that too, but nevertheless it deserves to be deleted.
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  • Profile picture of the author archer29
    Check out "Craig" making $5,000 a month posting links on Google. If you do a search on google cash starter kit scam you'll find that Craig here is charging people's credit cards beyond the 2 bucks he's charging for the kits. Yeah, somewhere in the fine print it says you'll be charged $40 bucks a month. His software must be zeroing in on my zip code because supposedly he hails from just one town over from me. Yeah right!

    Craig's Money Blog

    Sure, it's marketing but John Q public falls for it and it becomes another smear on the IM reputation. Next time they'll be more hesitant to buy the legitimate offer we're trying to sell.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    Jason said, "In fact why not just get out of internet marketing all together, it will save you a lot of headaches buddy."

    I don't have any headaches Jason. Ya know, there are two ways to make oneself feel you are rising above the crowd. One is to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and actual rise. The other is to try to pull others down to your level. The latter is what you've tried to do Jason. Take the high road fella.

    I didn't attack anyone here. I posted some thoughts. When you can't attack the thoughts you attack the person.

    I'm not here to make enemies. In fact, I've made quite a few friends and I value those friendships. Even after the cheap sots you took at me Jason, I've still got room in my world for another friend. That's an invitation Jason.

    I understand your views. I even respect them as coming from an obviously knowledgeable person. But most of the vitriolic comments in this thread didn't come from my end.

    Tell ya what, I'll post another thread in about 10 minutes. Hang on, you might actually enjoy it. I've gotta go see if I can dig out what I want.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    To be honest, I agree with you Mike.

    Sure, I made a funny comment in regards to your post, but...

    Geez! What's wrong with someone sharing their views on things?

    Plus, I found it odd that a few (not all) of the comments that said you should stop being so negative didn't offer any other alternative - AND - in fact were negative themselves.

    I appreciate the way you've handed differing opinions, I'm not so sure I would have done the same.

    However, there was one thing that did bother me. As you could tell from my post, I don't believe any of the things you mentioned are scams. Misleading? Usually. Scams? Not really.

    It bothers me because it will confuse the very people it could be helping.

    No hard feelings, though; toward you or any of the responses in this thread. Just a few opinionated observations on my part.

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    I'm back. Good or bad, I'm back. I need to set this up just a bit. I'm online all day. For a diversion, and to learn some things--I go to some forums and try to keep a pulse on things. Several nights ago, a little before midnight, I gave myself 40 minutes to put a little thing together for people here. I never put it up because every time I got here I had to scroll through this damn thing to learn more bad things about myself.

    Anyway, in spite of all of this bullshit I seem to have stirred up, I'm still going to offer it to you--and not as a way of apologizing, because I still stand on my posting. That being said, I've changed my SigFile for 24 hours--maybe through the weekend. I'll change it back to my cool one soon, so take advantage of this if you like.

    This is something I have used with a pretty fair amount of success. I'm not selling you anything. There is no opt-in involved. No bullshit--just a direct download to a pdf file that some of you might find very useful.

    To be honest, if you are selling a program in the IM niche it might not be so useful, but if you have any general interest ebook that an average person out there could use--gardening, self defense, relationships, making or saving money, investing--stuff like that, it would be worth a read. It's kind of entertaining anyway.

    It's free. No sales stuff. No opt-ins. No promo stuff inside. It's plain and simple free.

    Now, I'm not trying to bribe you into thinking I'm not an ass*ole, I've been called worse. But I do consider you my friends and I wrote it before I get into this post. Like I said, you don't get many free things in life--this is one. Click my SigFile.

    Good or bad, I still enjoy reading your stuff. It makes me think--that's probably a good thing --Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author ankur sharma
    I subscribe to these emails , because i want to learn things. Most of these emails contain nothing but sale pitch. I remember , i joined a list, which was some sort of a course and i did learn lot of things. After 8 emails , the guy sent me a sales pitch , which could help me in my project. So , i happily bought it.

    Personally , i dont mind if someone suggest me a product. But most of the IMers pay no attention on the content itself. "Content is the king" it applies to email marketing also.
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Spaulding
    Unfortunately it seems that many people who are training to be marketers do not understand the definition of "scam."

    In many cases what they call a scam is just good marketing.

    Don't get me wrong, there is alot of sleazy marketing techniques and I don't agree with most (cold calling, forced continuity etc.) but if you're not using a little hype you're simply not representing your product well enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    Yeah, I agree with many of you, maybe the word "scam" was a bit much. Anyway, enough of this nonsense. Let's get on with our work and make some money and help others out around here. My best to all.
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