How much income is "not worth it"?

58 replies
Hi Warriors,

I went to a seminar at the weekend hosted by a fellow warrior and while I wasn't expecting to learn much new stuff I went to support him in his efforts. I'm moving home at the moment so I could only be there for the first day but I saw/heard something that surprised me and wanted to see what you thought about it.

One of the speakers spent around 90 minutes sharing his experience with his business model and wanting to be completely open about his results and what people could expect to be the "reality" of doing the same thing (I know that's unusual in itself), but he shared the details of his worst results, his average results and his best results.

Now to me, that was really impressive because most IMers I've seen speaking at events over the years never share their worst results. They're busy "selling the sizzle" and if you're lucky they share their success and don't over-play them too much.

So here was someone breaking that mould and I respected him for that.

To my surprise when we stopped for a coffee break I heard a couple of people talking about that presentation and saying "well, with those results it's hardly worth bothering with, I wouldn't waste my time doing that."

Now, I'm the first person to admit that I often do things which are not likely to make a massive amount of money, but I do them because I enjoy doing them, I like helping people, and if I've spent the time doing something I found interesting then I sometimes just consider the money a nice to have extra.

So, to me - that persons presentation was great. I'm already making money using the platform they were talking about but in a different way to what they were speaking about, and while the way they do it doesn't really have any appeal to me, they laid it out clearly, shared their methods and results and explained what was to them an easy way to make money using a strategy that requires little money, little effort and can be reproduced over and over again.

So whether I would do it myself or not, I would expect that since it requires very little work (most of which could be outsourced), that they'd delivered some great content and it was something people could do.

I ended up feeling sorry for the guy that some of the people he was sharing his model with just weren't interested in something that could only make them an extra $10k a year.

I can understand that people want 'big' money, but as I've actually been able to make that much just from doing 1% of what he shared with them but with my own spin on it - you would think that people wouldn't write off such a model without first thinking to themselves "how could that model be done differently to make more money?".

As I was just an attendee I had to bite my tongue and not say some things that I would normally say to open people's minds a little, but it reminded me of this forum and how many people come here that would give anything to have been given the same sort of information I just saw people ignoring.

So - to the question - How much is "not enough" for you when deciding if you should spend your time on some IM strategy?

Andy
#income #not worth it
  • My advice is that unless you are extraordinary and willing to bust your arse and not only work hard but be innovative then don't even bother with IM. Most people who enter it fail If you are really really hardcore and are willing to risk it all then yeah give it a go. But once you start don't give up. Success is always just around the corner. You can always have bigger and bigger successes.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Resale Rights Ninja View Post

      My advice is that unless you are extraordinary and willing to bust your arse and not only work hard but be innovative then don't even bother with IM.

      Forgive me but I'm not sure how that's related to the question I asked about - how much money does something need to be able to generate for you to consider it worth doing?
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      • Profile picture of the author Hobart13
        At the moment being a newbie to all this any amount would make me happy. Looking foward to my first $10,- that may sound funny to some of the big guns but for me it would be a start showing that I am doing something right. In the future I hope to have a reasonable fulltime income. So I guess how much 'is not worth' it depends on where you are in your IM carreer. Where I am now everything is worth it.
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        • Profile picture of the author shelahc
          Originally Posted by Hobart13 View Post

          At the moment being a newbie to all this any amount would make me happy. Looking foward to my first $10,- that may sound funny to some of the big guns but for me it would be a start showing that I am doing something right. In the future I hope to have a reasonable fulltime income. So I guess how much 'is not worth' it depends on where you are in your IM carreer. Where I am now everything is worth it.
          Even the "big guns" had a starting point.
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      • Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        Forgive me but I'm not sure how that's related to the question I asked about - how much money does something need to be able to generate for you to consider it worth doing?
        Depends on the time involved and what it is. If I make $2 a day and it takes me 1 minute a day then that is worth it.

        If I invest a 100 hours it something and it makes me only $500 it is still worth it to me, because its is all mine and I am still self employed and I didn't have to work a job to make it (even if it does end up being less than min. wage).

        If I invest 3 months in something and it bombs and I lose 3 months wages, plus what I invested in cash, it is still worth it to be because it is a lesson learned.

        So for me I don't have to make 10G for it to be worth doing. For me even if I lose money it is still worth doing.

        If I have to deal with a client though I need at least $1,500 for it to be worth my time, because I am giving up my time which to me is very valuable. I can squander that time but I won't have other people squander it for me.

        If someone wants to pay me per hour I would do it as a friend for $25 per hour, but for anyone else I would need at least $100 per hour.

        Its so hard to put a price on these things. To me it is all relative. many different factors involved.
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        • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
          Andy,

          Maybe he was in front of the wrong audience.

          And maybe you didn't tell us enough about how much work was involved for us to comment meaningfully on your question. You also didn't tell us whether this money-making method ties into other sources of profit indirectly or in the long run.

          But here's something to think about. I've heard both Jay Abraham and Dan Kennedy talk about whether or not it was worth writing books. Early in his career Jay was adamant that publishing traditional books was way too much work to make a few dollars profit on every sale. Dan said, however, that he loves it when people buy his books because those tend to turn into his highest value customers. (Jay obviously changed his mind on this later in his career, maybe after getting to know Dan.)

          Just last week I had an experience like this. A business owner who had read two of my books wanted my help on the topic of the books. He was presold. I named my price for brainstorming ideas for him, and he said great, drive up here on Friday, I will show you around, answer your questions and write you a check. That is an example of the trust you get from book readers. You don't normally get it just from a web site.

          So while I don't make a living from my books alone, they indirectly make me good money.

          If I shared the income I got directly from my books, some marketers would draw the kind of conclusion you heard at the conference. You could say they missed the point or you could say that they just preferred other methods of making money, which wouldn't bother me in the least.

          Marcia Yudkin
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          • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
            Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

            Andy,

            Maybe he was in front of the wrong audience.

            And maybe you didn't tell us enough about how much work was involved for us to comment meaningfully on your question. You also didn't tell us whether this money-making method ties into other sources of profit indirectly or in the long run.

            But here's something to think about. I've heard both Jay Abraham and Dan Kennedy talk about whether or not it was worth writing books. Early in his career Jay was adamant that publishing traditional books was way too much work to make a few dollars profit on every sale. Dan said, however, that he loves it when people buy his books because those tend to turn into his highest value customers. (Jay obviously changed his mind on this later in his career, maybe after getting to know Dan.)

            Just last week I had an experience like this. A business owner who had read two of my books wanted my help on the topic of the books. He was presold. I named my price for brainstorming ideas for him, and he said great, drive up here on Friday, I will show you around, answer your questions and write you a check. That is an example of the trust you get from book readers. You don't normally get it just from a web site.

            So while I don't make a living from my books alone, they indirectly make me good money.

            If I shared the income I got directly from my books, some marketers would draw the kind of conclusion you heard at the conference. You could say they missed the point or you could say that they just preferred other methods of making money, which wouldn't bother me in the least.

            Marcia Yudkin
            Hey Marcia,

            Nice to see you around here still.

            I completely get what you're saying. On the book front I also agree. I wrote a book a couple of years ago that still brings me nice checks from Amazon and makes more than many of the "methods" for making money with books/ebooks that I see people selling, but I accept that while I did factor in whether I thought it would sell - I'd have written it anyway.

            Regarding the audience, that's the point that I was focused on at the time - they were IMers and I think that had he not mentioned his actual results and just said that he was making money every month from his strategies - they'd have remained interested. Now, while some might say that this would have been less 'genuine' than what he did, I know from personal experience that he could be making a lot more of the same strategy with minor changes, so there's a good chance that if someone "copied" him - they'd actually do better because they'd add their own spice on top of his basic concepts.

            It seems that most people just want a cookie-cutter business to copy so that they don't have to think, when in reality it's their ability to think and implement what their own sense of value tells them could improve their results that will make all the difference.

            Like I said before - I'm not expecting there's a simple one-size answer to this stuff because we're people and all have our own unique perspectives and experiences.

            I'm just interested as to how many people here will do something because it makes 'something', or whether it's more common for people to consider the results and choose to do only the things which they believe have the potential to get the results they really want.

            Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author ShaneGorry
    Hi Andy thanks for sharing. I've done things that where not very profitable in the past and afterwards though "What a waste". These days however looking back at the accumulated experience I have from these wasted times I have come to realize that this time was actually spent very well after all as I will never have to learn those things again.

    Value is were we see it really.
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      I think it all depends on your audience and what you are trying to achieve.

      If I were looking for the more serious person I would tell all and let the masses go the other way.

      If I were just looking to make the sale or give some general information I would say what people want to hear.

      Most people can't stand the Truth, but an Entrepreneur can stare it in the face.
      Knowing what not to do is as good as knowing what to do with the Experiences.
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  • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
    It's possible that those moaners were trying to big up their own online earnings. Bluffing it by dismissing $10k as not worth it.

    Quite possibly they are earning 0 themselves and came expecting to be given a nice shiny spherical object on a plate with "guaranteed earnings" of $100k a year attached (no work involved).

    I bet they were men
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

      I bet they were men
      Ouch! Meeeooowwww
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      • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        Ouch! Meeeooowwww
        .............. but you didn't answer the implicit question (I wish there was a "sticks tongue out" smiley)
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        • Profile picture of the author shelahc
          Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

          .............. but you didn't answer the implicit question (I wish there was a "sticks tongue out" smiley)
          There IS a sticks tongue out smiley.... :p LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author DentonMan
      Surely any income is worth it, since you can never tell what a small sale might lead to in the long run - that customer who has spent 10 dollars with you today might place an order worth $100 next week. So it seems to me that to have some arbitrary cut-off point below which a sale is deemed 'not worth it' is self-defeating.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by DentonMan View Post

        Surely any income is worth it, since you can never tell what a small sale might lead to in the long run - that customer who has spent 10 dollars with you today might place an order worth $100 next week. So it seems to me that to have some arbitrary cut-off point below which a sale is deemed 'not worth it' is self-defeating.
        Well, THAT is the question isn't it.

        Now, while I'm quite clear about this stuff for myself and there some things I'll do even knowing they're not financial sensible, I think that the ability to know whether an activity is profitable or not is a massive thing for many IMers.

        I've lost track of the number of times I've seen people come here and post something like "well, there's no way to tell if it'll make money so you just have to try it and see" - which I think it's a fairly sensible approach, however when you also consider that most people starting out in IM have Shiny Object Syndrome and don't actually stick with anythink for long, they're pretty much setting themselves up for failure.

        So, while when you start out you may think "making ANY money is good" - and I think there's a LOT of value to making your first dollar online, I also understand that you only have 24 hours in the day so unless you're particular about how you spend your time - you can easily find that your first 2 years of IM have gone by and you've spent more than you've made.

        So, despite how my OP may have come across I definitely think it's important to know what NOT to do with your time.

        It's more a case of knowing what your options are and if you already have an activity that you enjoy that makes you $2k a month - why would you replace it with a different one that makes $1k a month? You wouldn't - but if that $1k is extra and takes very little time to make on top of your other revenue - then it may make more sense.

        That's not to say you can't replace it if you find a more profitable activity, but that's the thing - it's all relative.

        So - I don't think that NOT doing something that makes 'some' money is a limited mindset - in fact, the opposite, I think it would be stupid not to consider if something is 'worth doing' within your own context and needs.

        I know that someone starting out with a pile of debts and no cash is going to think differently to someone with desposable income looking to monetise their hobby - so I'm not expecting a one-size-fits-all answer or for everyone to agree on this.

        As you go through life your priorities change and you value your time more or less at different points also.

        Andy
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        • Profile picture of the author fin
          I'd work on my website for free if I had to and I'd just stick to writing articles for money.
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          • Profile picture of the author celente
            Originally Posted by fin View Post

            I'd work on my website for free if I had to and I'd just stick to writing articles for money.
            that is not really a good long term business plan.

            There was as warrior back in 2008, that wrote 5k worth of articles and reinvested that back into another biz all outsourced and now that same business is on to do 100k per year.

            So write yes, but make sure you reinvest it back mate.
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            • Profile picture of the author fin
              Originally Posted by celente View Post

              that is not really a good long term business plan.

              There was as warrior back in 2008, that wrote 5k worth of articles and reinvested that back into another biz all outsourced and now that same business is on to do 100k per year.

              So write yes, but make sure you reinvest it back mate.
              Thanks, that is what I plan on doing when I can pay someone to work on pet projects I think of, but don't want to do the work for.
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  • Profile picture of the author gcbmark20
    Fantastic advice from my viewpoint Andy!

    It isn't how much you make at the beginning; it's how you use those profits and put them to greater use by allowing them to grow your business.

    Going for the big bucks is going to take a lot of time and effort and won't happen overnight.

    So if people can get some momentum with something that makes them 10K a year then at least they now have a platform to build on.

    I suppose people see things in many different ways to others and so on it goes.

    I have to agree that it is refreshing to hear someone openly share their results whether they have been massively successful or not.

    Thanks for the share and have a great day!
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    People can out their own value on their time. I live alone, barely have visitors and have lousy health BUT I do have lots of ti8me which means I can do a fair amount of work (subject to health) so my time perhaps isn't as valuable when compared to people who work 2 jobs and have a family and are trying to also run an online business.

    I have a certain figure in mind that I would not write articles for that amount or less... and yet there are others who would not write an article for less than 5 or 10 times the amount so it does vary.

    I hope that makes sense. It's a matter of perspective.
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  • Profile picture of the author shipwrecked
    My opinion is that you should be ready/open to struggle for months, years even to achieve long-term substantial income.

    There were periods when I earned very low, there were more investments than income, but I didn't give up...

    Good income will arrive with time, after plenty of effort having been invested into your project. It's a slow process, don't give up, even if you earn 5 $ per month for an entire year! Provided that your project is indeed a promising one...

    Everything is hard at the beginning...
    Although, we must all make sure that we aren't spending time, effort and money with something that is not promising, not profitable...

    So, don't expect becoming a billionaire by selling lemonades at a street stand.

    But if you believe in your business model and it's a profitable niche, then you must fight and fight until you reach success: constant income!

    Once you are past that point, you will find that often money will come easier than ever before. After you reached that point, the income stream will be smoother, the work will be easier.

    It's like climbing a mountain! Once you're up there...
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  • Profile picture of the author dafnait
    Thanks for sharing,
    I'm at the beginning of my IM way,
    I am willing to do everything,
    I believe that on the way i will find the things that are more profitable to invest in them, until that time i am doing everything!
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      Andy,

      For me these days, the question is more about "Does it feed the soul?"

      Apart from my main income I also work for a publisher giving seminars and workshops for teachers.

      If I broke it down to an hourly rate, because of travel and preparation time, it wouldn't seem like much.

      However, this is what it gives me:
      • Free high quality training from a major company (the kind of stuff people pay $1,000 a day for).
      • A chance to hone my presentation and speaking skills.
      • Full expenses paid travel all over the country and abroad.
      • Being treated like a VIP.
      • Meeting lots of intelligent and interesting people.
      • Freedom to pick and choose events to suit my timetable.
      The only drawback is that I can't do this in my pyjamas ;-)


      Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris_Willow
    If I was about to learn something just to make money AND had no interest in the subject at all, damn sure you'd have to promise me the world.
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    • Originally Posted by Chris_Willow View Post

      If I was about to learn how to sell stuff online from scratch, just to make money AND had no interest in the subject at all, damn sure you'd have to promise me $100k within my first 2 weeks.

      Yet I'll spend hundreds of hours learning guitar, just for the kicks.
      Exactly. If you doing what you love it changes everything.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Andy, the answer to the question depends on the situation.

        If I was just starting out, broke, in danger of losing my home, and at the end of
        my rope, the only thing that wouldn't be enough would be if it didn't at least
        keep me clothed, fed and off the streets.

        When I first started, I was making about $1,500 a month, and that was fine
        because it helped pay the bills and my wife had a good job at the time.

        Today, anything is enough because I don't do it for the money anymore.
        Whatever I make goes towards fun and games. So I'll put in the time to maybe
        make a couple of grand if it helps pay for my vices.

        Would I spend countless hours working for 7 figures a year now? Not a prayer.
        I don't need the money and my free time is more important to me. I've only
        gone back to work full time (more or less) out of boredom.

        But make no mistake about it. You could dangle a 10 million dollar carrot in
        front of me and it wouldn't be enough to make me work my ass off like I used
        to do 9 years ago.

        I can only speak for myself, but I think with most people, unless maybe I'm
        the odd ball, their answers are going to be directly proportional to their need
        and not so much their desire.

        Because trust me, when you're hungry, you'll do almost anything for money.
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  • Now a days, I'm very selective with the type of projects I get involved with.

    I would not build a site if I expected to make, say, $10k/year off it, even if it took me only 1 or 2 weeks of my time. The thing is that I find more difficult (and psychologically more taxing) to manage a myriad of small projects than a fistful of big projects.

    So, now a days I prefer to select 3 or 4 projects a year from which I expect to make $100k+ , rather than 25+ small projects aiming for a few grand from each. Like I say, I get psychologically exhausted when I try to juggle many projects at once.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheArticlePros
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      • Profile picture of the author Magic Mike IM
        For me its determined by mindset, priorities and enjoyment. If I find a project "intriguing, I don't really care about the amount of money I'm going to make... I think about the amount of knowledge I'm going to learn and how I can apply it to other ventures, niches and projects.

        This of course, changes over the years. When I first started in IM, I wanted to make a million dollars overnight... but I was broke ! I foolishly ignored genuine opportunities to make money, instead chasing the "instant millions". As I some made money and became more knowledgeable, I became more balanced as to what "oppurtunity" really was.

        So, I try to look at the "value" of getting involved in a method or business plan. What will I learn, how much will I make, are these principles that can be widely applied, and will I enjoy it.

        The more money I've made over the years has actually made me appreciate methods that work (no matter how small), rather than have done the opposite and turn myself into an "IM Snob".
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    Andy, for me, at this point in my business, it all comes down to long-term income. I am not in need of 'short term money' so am willing to invest more than years ago.

    I ask myself: Does what I'm going to attempt have the realistic potential for continuing residual income?...Is the product evergreen enough that it will sell for years? Is the market large enough, and hungry enough to produce sales for a long time?

    If I can answer those questions in the affirmative (and yes sometimes it's only an educated guess) then I deem it 'worth it' to move forward. ...and to do quite a bit of work to try and make it happen.
    _____
    Bruce
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Bruce NewMedia View Post

      Andy, for me, at this point in my business, it all comes down to long-term income. I am not in need of 'short term money' so am willing to invest more than years ago.

      I ask myself: Does what I'm going to attempt have the realistic potential for continuing residual income?...Is the product evergreen enough that it will sell for years? Is the market large enough, and hungry enough to produce sales for a long time?

      If I can answer those questions in the affirmative (and yes sometimes it's only an educated guess) then I deem it 'worth it' to move forward. ...and to do quite a bit of work to try and make it happen.
      _____
      Bruce
      Bruce, maybe if it was something I was REALLY passionate about, I would
      feel the same way. But to do something just for the money, even if the niche
      was explosive as hell, just isn't enough of an incentive for me.

      In fact, I'd rather spend my time making a mega music review site even if it
      never made me a dime because music has always been my whole life and
      spending all day just reviewing CDs and posting those reviews would be
      awesome.

      I'd then open it up to membership (free) and let other people post their
      reviews as well. I'd have a section for up and coming musicians to upload
      their music.

      If I made any money at it, great. If not, so what? I'm doing something I
      really love.

      That is the ONLY way I would dedicate my time to something ever again.
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  • Profile picture of the author trevnkam
    My experience is that if it takes more time and energy to keep it going than it brings in in cash, then it's not worth doing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by trev72w View Post

      My experience is that if it takes more time and energy to keep it going than it brings in in cash, then it's not worth doing.
      But if it makes you $300 a month - but requires 8 hours a day - then what?

      Most people draw a line somewhere - what's yours?
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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    Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

    How much is "not enough" for you when deciding if you should spend your time on some IM strategy?
    I can't answer it in numbers, Andy, because I regard it as a non-linear question.

    It just isn't about "I'm willing to put in an additional 'x' hours per week of work/effort for the realistic prospect of 'y' dollars per week/month of additional income."

    It relates strongly to at least three other things ...

    (i) What else do I have going on and what else could I do with the time instead (which varies, but it's "opportunity cost", however you look at it);

    (ii) How much quicker am I likely to get at doing it and/or what parts of it can I outsource;

    And, most importantly (albeit very subjective) ...

    (iii) Does it seem to have any possible chance of "hitting the jackpot" - for example, might it turn out to be hugely scalable or have other reasons for thinking that the longer-term upside might be far more than the shorter-term superficial appearance. Now that I'm earning such a good, steady, growing living, I'm willing to put some time, effort and energy into some longshots (or "longshots" relative to other things I do). So I have to assess the "unexpected upside potential", and for me that's actually quite a big part of whether I'll try something new.

    There are certainly plenty of things that might/could/should bring in an extra $10,000 per year that I won't be bothered to try. But that's partly because there are others that clearly will and have at least a vaguely assessable chance of turning into an extra $100,000 per year, too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      There are certainly plenty of things that might/could/should bring in an extra $10,000 per year that I won't be bothered to try. But that's partly because there are others that clearly will and have at least a vaguely assessable chance of turning into an extra $100,000 per year, too.
      That's exactly where I sit too - but I do have to regularly remind myself about it when I have ideas and then think "hold on, when I factor in my time and what else I could be doing - this is something I should let pass".
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  • Profile picture of the author Gambino
    My answer would be: if I spend more time and effort working online and make less than my job, it's not worth leaving my job. Currently that sits around 5k per month.

    However, once I hit around 3k per month, consistently, I'd probably be willing to trade my 9-5 and use the extra time to expand my business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Money is not my biggest motivation so it would be hard
    to say. I love helping people and that gives me greater
    satisfaction. Of course I have a family to feed and bills to
    pay so helping people at the expense of taking care
    of my family wouldn't make sense. But at the same
    time I would want my project to pay in money or
    satisfaction is is above what I put in--so be profitable.

    Of course, I cannot live on $10K per year so this would
    not be a sole source of income. But I wouldn't throw this
    opportunity out simply because of the low income (not
    knowing how much work I'll have to do because you
    didn't say.)

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      Money is not my biggest motivation so it would be hard
      to say. I love helping people and that gives me greater
      satisfaction. Of course I have a family to feed and bills to
      pay so helping people at the expense of taking care
      of my family wouldn't make sense. But at the same
      time I would want my project to pay in money or
      satisfaction is is above what I put in--so be profitable.

      Of course, I cannot live on $10K per year so this would
      not be a sole source of income. But I wouldn't throw this
      opportunity out simply because of the low income (not
      knowing how much work I'll have to do because you
      didn't say.)

      -Ray Edwards
      Ray, looking at it that way, if money were still important to me, I'd have to
      look at it simply as "how much is one hour of my time worth?"

      If my time is worth $100 per hour, then whatever I do will ultimately have to
      generate that much income for each hour worked.

      So if somebody came to me and said, you can make $10,000 doing X, I would
      have to be able to accomplish that working no more than 100 hours or
      approximately 2.5 40 hour weeks.

      Now, I know, if I wanted to do a major product launch using something like
      PLF, it would take me (assuming I outsource nothing at all) about 8 40 hour
      weeks. That comes out to 320 hours. That means I'd have to make at least
      $32,000 for the launch.

      Past experience with similar launches tell me that this is more than doable. In
      fact, $32,000 would be a low end figure.

      For somebody whose time is worth less to them, the chances of them taking
      on this project, based on the same formula, would be greater. If their time is
      worth more, they would be less.

      I used to equate everything just like this. If it took more than an hour of time
      to generate $100 of income, I simply didn't do it.

      Today, again, it would depend on how much the project really meant to me.

      But that's a whole other kettle of fish.
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      • Profile picture of the author fin
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


        For somebody whose time is worth less to them, the chances of them taking
        on this project, based on the same formula, would be greater.
        I think you have it upside down.

        People's time is worth more to them if they decide to do something they love.

        What you're talking about is money, not time, so saying someone's time is worth less to them is in fact wrong.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by fin View Post

          I think you have it upside down.

          People's time is worth more to them if they decide to do something they love.

          What you're talking about is money, not time, so saying someone's time is worth less to them is in fact wrong.
          No. I don't have it upside down.

          If my time is worth $100 per hour to me and a project will pay me $150 an hour
          in sales from it, then I'll take on the project. If, however, the sales from the
          project only translate to $50 per hour, I won't take on the project.

          I think that's about as clear as it gets.
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          • Profile picture of the author fin
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            No. I don't have it upside down.

            If my time is worth $100 per hour to me and a project will pay me $150 an hour
            in sales from it, then I'll take on the project. If, however, the sales from the
            project only translate to $50 per hour, I won't take on the project.

            I think that's about as clear as it gets.
            No, you do have it upside down.

            You'd do something for $100p/h because that's what you need to live.

            Someone else would rather do something they love for $40p/h.

            That means their time is worth more to them.

            Let's not forget TIME = TIME.

            An hour is 60mins. 60mins you'll never get back.

            Time isn't money.

            Or can it be?

            Yes. If what you have is a job.

            So you work for Xhrs to make Yp/h, just so you can spend the money when you're not working.

            Why does that sound familiar? Oh yeah, because you trade time for money. Guess you haven't broken out of the 'job' mindset.
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            • Profile picture of the author jeffreydale
              Originally Posted by fin View Post

              No, you do have it upside down.

              You'd do something for $100p/h because that's what you need to live.

              Someone else would rather do something they love for $40p/h.

              That means their time is worth more to them.

              Let's not forget TIME = TIME.

              An hour is 60mins. 60mins you'll never get back.

              Time isn't money.

              Or can it be?

              Yes. If what you have is a job.

              So you work for Xhrs to make Yp/h, just so you can spend the money when you're not working.

              Why does that sound familiar? Oh yeah, because you trade time for money. Guess you haven't broken out of the 'job' mindset.
              I like this. If you enjoy what you do then it shouldn't matter, the extra income is simply a bonus. Maybe we're all too busy with the old fashioned "job" mindset..

              -JD
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            • Profile picture of the author fin
              Originally Posted by fin View Post


              Yes. If what you have is a job.

              So you work for Xhrs to make Yp/h, just so you can spend the money when you're not working.

              Why does that sound familiar? Oh yeah, because you trade time for money. Guess you haven't broken out of the 'job' mindset.
              This is a general example BTW.

              It's not directed at Steve.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Each person will have their own filters.

    My mentor sets his at a minimum of at least $10,000 per month. (per site/project)

    Its funny Andy, people whinge when they're being sold to, and whinge when they're not.

    "Oh look, anyone that claims to be making $50,000 a month is obviously a scammer..."
    "Oh look, anyone that's only making $10,000 a year is an idiot...and obviously its not worth it"

    Anyone stepping up on stage and sharing both sides of the story deserves acknowledgement - especially in this industry.

    Thanks for sharing man.
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

    So - to the question - How much is "not enough" for you when deciding if you should spend your time on some IM strategy?
    It depends on the work. If an income stream requires active work on my part that cannot be done easily while sitting on the couch watching TV, I prefer to be earning in the vicinity of $50-$100 per hour for my time.

    If the income stream is mostly passive, I'm OK with significantly less since it requires very little to no time investment.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
      What I want to know is... why is the supposed income ceiling for this business model only $10K per year? What's to stop you from outsourcing the required work to several VA's and ramping it up to a 6 figure a year business? Or is the niche / target market so small that it would get quickly saturated?
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by Brandon Tanner View Post

        What I want to know is... why is the supposed income ceiling for this business model only $10K per year? What's to stop you from outsourcing the required work to several VA's and ramping it up to a 6 figure a year business? Or is the niche / target market so small that it would get quickly saturated?
        It's not an income ceiling - it's just what this person had earned with that model in the last year. Like I said, I knew immediately that you could make much more with the same model because I already made more with a much reduced version of that model slightly modified because I had a different focus when I did it.

        That's my point - the limitation is in the eye of the beholder, not in the model.
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        nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author jeffreydale
    I feel that as long as you keep working hard at it, then you can always expect to see an increase in income. You can work 8 hours a day and only earn $100 a month, but all your time is building up to the greater cause. After time, those 8 hours a day will start to earn you $200, then $400 etc.. Eventually you might hit your peak, but then you just repeat the process.

    I make a lot less than I should for the amount of time I put it, but I am noticing that my revenue is increasing as time goes on. Even if it's only a few cents more every week, you can only go up.. unless you give up and let your site bomb completely.

    But then again, maybe I'm just optimistic.

    -JD
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  • Profile picture of the author peteJ
    I think it's important to have several different ways to produce income, regardeless of how much it will make you. You never know when google is gonig to turn out an update that stops your traffic or a law comes out that kills your main source of income. The smart people are gonig to have a multitude of different options should this happen, and even if it's a little bit it's better than having nothing.

    I personally am always looking for new ways to make money or alternate ways with existing methods. Although this is sometimes bad as I'll get a bit distracted from my current project, in the end if one of my methods ends up obsolete I have many more to fall back on and rebuild.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    In my experience, the people who are unwilling to do the things necessary to make the first $10 usually never get the opportunity to make $1,000

    Most of us who do fairly well didn't start out making big money easily. Truth is, for the most part the lessons we learned making the little money at first are the very things that opened our eyes to bigger and better opportunities.

    Its sad to see people who probably need to make an extra $10k pretty badly dismiss the ideas because they don't see how to make more than a measly $10k with a home business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    $1,000 a month within the first 4 months.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

    So - to the question - How much is "not enough" for you when deciding if you should spend your time on some IM strategy?

    Andy
    There are many here who would die for that info and those results. I personally don't pass up a chance to make an extra $10/per year unless the effort it required were so massive as to make it not worth it, but it doesn't sound like that is the case.
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  • Profile picture of the author jeffreydale
    $10 bucks is a pack of smokes a tall boy.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

    So - to the question - How much is "not enough" for you when deciding if you should spend your time on some IM strategy?
    1. How much is the method going to make and for how long?
    2. How much UP FRONT and ONGOING investment is needed?
    3. How much of (2) is applicable to FUTURE projects?
    4. What is the ACTUAL opportunity cost of doing this?

    To most people, (1) and (2) are the big ones. How much does it cost to get started, how much does it cost to keep going, and how much profit comes out on the bottom line.

    To me, however, option (3) is the single most important question. I usually take on a project not to make money, but to learn something. (The most frequent lesson is "it doesn't work.") Sometimes I need specific software or other assets to do this. If I can use those assets again in the future, that reduces my risk.

    Option (4) is another important one: it's not about what I could be doing, it's about what I would be doing. You can't sit there and say "I could make as much or more money doing XYZ" if what you are actually going to do is spend all day playing Viva Piñata for a week and a half. That's not the ACTUAL opportunity cost, it's just something you made up. The actual opportunity cost is more like "I won't get the Master Romancer award for all ten colours of Flutterscotch."

    Speaking of which, I still need three more orange ones, so pardon me
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    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author fin
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post


      To me, however, option (3) is the single most important question. I usually take on a project not to make money, but to learn something.
      This is something I think could be the difference between people who make good money and people who make more.

      Take customer service as an example. Most people would probably hire it out for $10 per hour if they were making good money.

      The people who do it themselves could discover something by talking with their customers and it could completely change the business. Spending time doing 'grunt work' could turn their next idea into a multi-million pound venture.

      Good luck hiring someone for $10p/h and hoping they spot it.
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  • Profile picture of the author mfarg
    Interesting discussion, all!

    I once had a conversation with a friend about whether it would be worth it for Bill Gates to bend over to pick up a hundred dollar bill on the street. From a purely mathematical standpoint, he makes far more than that off of interest alone, so it wouldn't be "worth his time." But from a practical standpoint, he'd only be gaining an extra $100 because he wouldn't lose any income by doing it.

    That is a pretty complete answer to the question posed here. If your business is humming and doesn't require your complete attention, why not add another 10K stream that wouldn't require much effort? Basically, each person has to decide for himself/herself if the effort is worth to gain.
    For me the answer would be yes unless I could make the same or more money with the same amount of effort doing something about which I am more passionate.
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  • Profile picture of the author suavewarrior
    How much is enough is a good question. You should maximize your potential all the way until you are one the dominant in your authority and need no more prospecting and gain authority. When you that your business is bringing you stress or taking you away from love ones then enough is enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author KevinDahlberg
    How much money is enough? Right now it's not about money. Any money is enough, mostly because I haven't made any. Time is what's important right now. When you work 40+ hours a week you don't have time to spend 8 hours a day working on something, even if that something could make you 10,000 a week.

    I can't afford more than a couple hours a day. That's my "not worth it" threshold.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
    "I Won't Get Out Of Bed For Less Than..."

    You have to look at it a certain way. Is that certain amount of dollars really worth it?

    Well, if that amount of dollars leads to greater amounts of dollars, it could be.

    Look at the big picture. Is the $37 dollar 'how to make so much money you'll be driving a Lambo and Hang'n with the chick's from scores' worth it. Or, is the $997 dollar coaching, or, the $1997 seminar...or... it's the big picture.


    Bill



    .
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